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Serec

IL-2 weird flight model

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So,

I was flying on Wings in a 109 E7 and there was this guy called RedStrapONs_Trofimov. He was flying an IL-2 1941 version and was shooting down fighters left, right and center. I fought with him a few times and the way he was flying was beyond ridiculous. Top speed of an IL-2 is around 430 kph, he was chasing me and catching up to me while I was doing about 460 kph. He could perform a 180° turn in less than 2 seconds. I know the IL-2 has a high wingload but that is just out of the realm of physics.

So I went into a Quick Mission to test this out myself. I used 70l of fuel, lowest you can take and nothing else. Indicated top speed according to the stat card is 430 kph, well I got it all the way up to 460, which explains why I couldn't outrun it in a 109 E7. I could also perform a 180° turn in about 3 seconds, using flaps, and perform a 2nd 180° turn in another 4,5 seconds, only after that had I lost enough speed to where I couldn't continue the turn.

Now, I have never flown an IL-2 in real life but I would have thought that a plane, which weighs 4,5t empty, shouldn't be able to turn quicker than a Spitfire, or a Hurricane for that matter. The way the plane handles is more akin to a WW1 fighter than a WW2 ground attack plane. Maybe there is something wrong with the flight model, but then again, if somebody knows more than me, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

You can test it yourself as well by just doing a Quick Mission.

 

Edited by Serec
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Heck of a first post from a member who's been around 3 1/2 years. Hang on, I hope you'll get the answers you're looking for.

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3 minutes ago, Max_von_Wuthenau said:

now hold on a second, his name was RedStrapOns? i mean that alone should have told you to stay away from him

 

Bend over, here comes my IL-2!

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About the speed, the listed value is for a standard 15ºC day at sea level, and full fuel. You should test it in the Kuban Autumn map which has these conditions. Even with 70 liters of fuel I couldn't get the IL-2 to go over 435 km/h without overheating.

Edited by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard

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I flown it many years in bith old IL 2 and this one. There are not much wrong with it compared to other planes inaccuracy.  

The 1941 version basic armed one is a very agile fighter. 

They did fly escorts with them to protect mates since before reorganizing the air force escorts almost never showed up.

What they learned was being  aggressive and offencive gave less losses.  

But none of the planes is 100% and I never seen a il 2 climb like a 109

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You were damaged by lagg3 before il-2 come for you, so he can catch you as when your damaged your mutch slower, also without replay who knows what bad moves you did before alowing il-2 to shoot you down. Try yak1 vs 110s if you think il-2 is so big danger your for good suprise. Guys geting shoot down by Il-2 or 110s or even ju87s is no suprise, good players get bored online so they go for easy pray with what ever so they dont get bored, just wait untill 111s you attack thinking its easy pray start to df you at 6km and outclimb you shooting at you with 20mm :) 

online always be cearfule of wolf in sheeps clothing, what could be easy ju87 just flying around is maybe fighter player hunting for you just waiting for right guy to try him on 😄

Edited by 77.CountZero
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5 hours ago, 77.CountZero said:

You were damaged by lagg3 before il-2 come for you, so he can catch you as when your damaged your mutch slower, also without replay who knows what bad moves you did before alowing il-2 to shoot you down. Try yak1 vs 110s if you think il-2 is so big danger your for good suprise. Guys geting shoot down by Il-2 or 110s or even ju87s is no suprise, good players get bored online so they go for easy pray with what ever so they dont get bored, just wait untill 111s you attack thinking its easy pray start to df you at 6km and outclimb you shooting at you with 20mm :) 

online always be cearfule of wolf in sheeps clothing, what could be easy ju87 just flying around is maybe fighter player hunting for you just waiting for right guy to try him on 😄

Unfortunately I didn't record the that particular instance, however I was not damaged in any shape or form by a LaGG before the Il-2 gave chase (not sure how you came to this specific conclusion). I just couldn't get him of my 6 since I had to wiggle with rudder and elevator to not get hit which lead to me staying at around 460kph and not further accelerating. Still, at the time I didn't know that the Il-2 can go that fast in this game which left me flabbergasted as to how I'm not out running him. 

This also wasn't intended to be a “Damn I was shot down by an Il-2 in a German fighter, now I'm pissed off and I'm going to make an angry forum post”-post. I play both blue and red and when it comes to the 110 I would make the case that the flight model is just as nuts as the one of the Il-2, particularly with low fuel load.

 

Edited by Serec

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6 hours ago, Serec said:

Unfortunately I didn't record the that particular instance, however I was not damaged in any shape or form by a LaGG before the Il-2 gave chase (not sure how you came to this specific conclusion). I just couldn't get him of my 6 since I had to wiggle with rudder and elevator to not get hit which lead to me staying at around 460kph and not further accelerating. Still, at the time I didn't know that the Il-2 can go that fast in this game which left me flabbergasted as to how I'm not out running him. 

This also wasn't intended to be a “Damn I was shot down by an Il-2 in a German fighter, now I'm pissed off and I'm going to make an angry forum post”-post. I play both blue and red and when it comes to the 110 I would make the case that the flight model is just as nuts as the one of the Il-2, particularly with low fuel load.

 

http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/en/sortie/log/4757725/?tour=52

 

sure it looks like complain based on no facts and 0 effort on backing up FM complain, insted learn from looking at replay or tacview and see what you did wrong to alow il-2 to shoot you down so many times you decide to go to forum and blame it on FM with no data to prove it. That just leads to spreding missinfo about games FM, as random guy will see your post and say ah you see its the funky FM not me whats the problem, devs should do better and fix it so i can be better player. And players get shoot down by 110 or ju87 or il-2 dosent mean FM is wrng it just means they dont know what they are doing and are easy target even for good players in bomber or graound attacker, but they will never improve when first thing is blame it on devs.

Edited by 77.CountZero
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2 hours ago, 77.CountZero said:

http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/en/sortie/log/4757725/?tour=52

 

sure it looks like complain based on no facts and 0 effort on backing up FM complain, insted learn from looking at replay or tacview and see what you did wrong to alow il-2 to shoot you down so many times you decide to go to forum and blame it on FM with no data to prove it. That just leads to spreding missinfo about games FM, as random guy will see your post and say ah you see its the funky FM not me whats the problem, devs should do better and fix it so i can be better player. And players get shoot down by 110 or ju87 or il-2 dosent mean FM is wrng it just means they dont know what they are doing and are easy target even for good players in bomber or graound attacker, but they will never improve when first thing is blame it on devs.

 http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/en/sortie/log/4757606/?tour=52

 

Funny how you complain about me not having "facts and data to prove it", yet you pick out of all the sorties that I flew on that mission that evening ONE and without further information about the flight you go: "Yup, this must be the one that he was  talking about". FYI, the sortie I was referring to was the one where I DIDN'T get shot down and landed back at the airfield, because after being chased by an Il-2 for about 4 minutes without being able to outrun him, we DID manage to shoot him down eventually (had a friendly 110 with me who did most of the heavy work since I was out of 20mm). It just took a whole lot of effort to do so because of how many insanely tight turns he was able to pull with this 4,5 TON HEAVY aircraft. (The "damaged - 0,1" you see in the flight log is me shooting him with my puny 7.92mm)

Did you even test it yourself? Did you, like I suggested go into a Quick Mission, with minimal fuel and tried the Il-2 yourself? Well if you did you wouldn't try to defend its flight model.

I can't be bothered to edit together a bunch of replay files just to prove my point to you when you can have a first hand experience yourself (mainly because I am too lazy and have no idea how to edit a video or replay file for that matter).

So I just tried it again (and I also realize now that I did a mistake in my original post, it should say 180° turns,  not 360°!!, apologize for that) and by doing the good old 1-Mississippi-2-Mississippi I came close to my original turn times. About 4,5 seconds for half a circle. I then even went ahead and tried the same thing in the Spitfire IX, you know, that quite agile WW2 FIGHTER plane. Alas, It took me sometimes even longer to perform my turns, between 4-5 seconds, and that was after many times of stalling the aircraft and spinning to my demise because I was pulling too hard because I was trying my best to beat my turn time in the Il-2, you know, that 4,5 ton heavy GROUND ATTACKER.

Both tests (if you could call it that) were performed on a Moscow winter map on the deck, using flaps. Not only does the Il-2 manage to complete a full circle faster than the Spitfire (9s for one whole turn), thanks to its very high wing load it stays extremely stable during that turn and can continue on into another turn after completing the first, whereas the Spitfire takes about 9-10s (sometimes even 11 when I was pulling too hard), starts to become unstable and shaky and will have lost so much energy that you wouldn't be able to continue into another turn, not without faceplanting into the ground. I started my turn in the Il-2 at 450kph and left it at about 250kph, I started my turn in the Spit at 260mph and left it at about 160mph. Now at speeds above 280mph the Spit WILL turn faster than the Il-2 (your pilot will also black out) but let's be realistic, if you were doing dogfights on the deck you wouldn't go into your turns with 280mph or more, unless you had meteor engines strapped to your fuselage.

Since you are talking about "data" here, could you kindly provide me with historic flight data, that shows that the Il-2 was in fact a better turn fighter than the Spit, a plane almost half the weight. If you can do that, I'll shut up about the FM and I will praise the devs for the historical accuracy in their game and for having taught me something I didn't think was possible.

 

Cheers

Edited by Serec
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2 hours ago, 77.CountZero said:

http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/en/sortie/log/4757725/?tour=52

 

sure it looks like complain based on no facts and 0 effort on backing up FM complain, insted learn from looking at replay or tacview and see what you did wrong to alow il-2 to shoot you down so many times you decide to go to forum and blame it on FM with no data to prove it. That just leads to spreding missinfo about games FM, as random guy will see your post and say ah you see its the funky FM not me whats the problem, devs should do better and fix it so i can be better player. And players get shoot down by 110 or ju87 or il-2 dosent mean FM is wrng it just means they dont know what they are doing and are easy target even for good players in bomber or graound attacker, but they will never improve when first thing is blame it on devs.

Bad comparison. 110 was designed as a twin engine heavy fighter, il2 not. 110 is faster than il2. But maybe il2 was leading a turn and out of a dive. Anyway i guess there is something wrong with control autority near the stall in game since ac have good control for precise shots near the stall. Hanging on the prop like a helicopter, stalling, without torque, and firing precisely is a common maneuver of russians fightes. Try to handle like that on DCS, you're toast. Never do a steep climb, straight or spiral, even with energy advantange in game.

Edited by =BLW=Tales

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3 hours ago, =BLW=Tales said:

Bad comparison. 110 was designed as a twin engine heavy fighter, il2 not. 110 is faster than il2. But maybe il2 was leading a turn and out of a dive. Anyway i guess there is something wrong with control autority near the stall in game since ac have good control for precise shots near the stall. Hanging on the prop like a helicopter, stalling, without torque, and firing precisely is a common maneuver of russians fightes. Try to handle like that on DCS, you're toast. Never do a steep climb, straight or spiral, even with energy advantange in game.

lol what 109s do all time

3 hours ago, Serec said:

 http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/en/sortie/log/4757606/?tour=52

 

Funny how you complain about me not having "facts and data to prove it", yet you pick out of all the sorties that I flew on that mission that evening ONE and without further information about the flight you go: "Yup, this must be the one that he was  talking about". FYI, the sortie I was referring to was the one where I DIDN'T get shot down and landed back at the airfield, because after being chased by an Il-2 for about 4 minutes without being able to outrun him, we DID manage to shoot him down eventually (had a friendly 110 with me who did most of the heavy work since I was out of 20mm). It just took a whole lot of effort to do so because of how many insanely tight turns he was able to pull with this 4,5 TON HEAVY aircraft. (The "damaged - 0,1" you see in the flight log is me shooting him with my puny 7.92mm)

Did you even test it yourself? Did you, like I suggested go into a Quick Mission, with minimal fuel and tried the Il-2 yourself? Well if you did you wouldn't try to defend its flight model.

I can't be bothered to edit together a bunch of replay files just to prove my point to you when you can have a first hand experience yourself (mainly because I am too lazy and have no idea how to edit a video or replay file for that matter).

So I just tried it again (and I also realize now that I did a mistake in my original post, it should say 180° turns,  not 360°!!, apologize for that) and by doing the good old 1-Mississippi-2-Mississippi I came close to my original turn times. About 4,5 seconds for half a circle. I then even went ahead and tried the same thing in the Spitfire IX, you know, that quite agile WW2 FIGHTER plane. Alas, It took me sometimes even longer to perform my turns, between 4-5 seconds, and that was after many times of stalling the aircraft and spinning to my demise because I was pulling too hard because I was trying my best to beat my turn time in the Il-2, you know, that 4,5 ton heavy GROUND ATTACKER.

Both tests (if you could call it that) were performed on a Moscow winter map on the deck, using flaps. Not only does the Il-2 manage to complete a full circle faster than the Spitfire (9s for one whole turn), thanks to its very high wing load it stays extremely stable during that turn and can continue on into another turn after completing the first, whereas the Spitfire takes about 9-10s (sometimes even 11 when I was pulling too hard), starts to become unstable and shaky and will have lost so much energy that you wouldn't be able to continue into another turn, not without faceplanting into the ground. I started my turn in the Il-2 at 450kph and left it at about 250kph, I started my turn in the Spit at 260mph and left it at about 160mph. Now at speeds above 280mph the Spit WILL turn faster than the Il-2 (your pilot will also black out) but let's be realistic, if you were doing dogfights on the deck you wouldn't go into your turns with 280mph or more, unless you had meteor engines strapped to your fuselage.

Since you are talking about "data" here, could you kindly provide me with historic flight data, that shows that the Il-2 was in fact a better turn fighter than the Spit, a plane almost half the weight. If you can do that, I'll shut up about the FM and I will praise the devs for the historical accuracy in their game and for having taught me something I didn't think was possible.

 

Cheers

LOL

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30 minutes ago, 77.CountZero said:

lol what 109s do all time

LOL

what a valuable contribution to the discussion

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@ Serec - won't comment on speeds, but keep in mind that this sim is "famous" for flaps giving some crazy maneuverability to some planes, P-47 being the most popular example. Maybe it's similar with Il-2, I don't know, I've never flown it. You could call it a loophole in flight modelling - there will aways be online players "gaming the game" and exploiting similar loopholes.

 

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18 hours ago, Serec said:

So,

I was flying on Wings in a 109 E7 and there was this guy called RedStrapONs_Trofimov. He was flying an IL-2 1941 version and was shooting down fighters left, right and center. I fought with him a few times and the way he was flying was beyond ridiculous. Top speed of an IL-2 is around 430 kph, he was chasing me and catching up to me while I was doing about 460 kph. He could perform a 180° turn in less than 2 seconds. I know the IL-2 has a high wingload but that is just out of the realm of physics.

So I went into a Quick Mission to test this out myself. I used 70l of fuel, lowest you can take and nothing else. Indicated top speed according to the stat card is 430 kph, well I got it all the way up to 460, which explains why I couldn't outrun it in a 109 E7. I could also perform a 360° turn in about 3 seconds, using flaps, and perform a 2nd 360° turn in another 4,5 seconds, only after that had I lost enough speed to where I couldn't continue the turn.

Now, I have never flown an IL-2 in real life but I would have thought that a plane, which weighs 4,5t empty, shouldn't be able to turn quicker than a Spitfire, or a Hurricane for that matter. The way the plane handles is more akin to a WW1 fighter than a WW2 ground attack plane. Maybe there is something wrong with the flight model, but then again, if somebody knows more than me, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

You can test it yourself as well by just doing a Quick Mission.

 

I mean, the in-game max speeds are not tested at the lowest possible fuel load, because that would be dumb. So yeah a light Il-2 might gain 30 km/h and your E-7 might get caught, that's really not shocking. The Il-2 can turn pretty well but loses speed very quickly. In real life the early Il-2 did actually get kills against 109s that were surprised when it turned its guns on them. The early versions of the Il-2 were pretty maneuverable and faster than later versions. Weight on its own has nothing to do with turning ability, its power, wing loading, and control authority.

Also, you've mixed up high wingloading and low wingloading. Low wing loading increases turn rate, high wing loading decreases turn rate.

The flaps are overdone in terms of the lift they grant to the planes and underdone in drag...they are modeled in such a way that they do OK for landing and takeoff but if used in other flight regimes in unrealistic ways, they behave unrealistically. Planes with big flaps and big wings seem to get the most 'benefit' from this issue.  

That being said...I am extremely skeptical that you did a 360 degree turn in 3 seconds in any plane in this game. That is an extraordinary claim, and I'd like to see some evidence. 

 

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38 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

I mean, the in-game max speeds are not tested at the lowest possible fuel load, because that would be dumb. So yeah a light Il-2 might gain 30 km/h and your E-7 might get caught, that's really not shocking. The Il-2 can turn pretty well but loses speed very quickly. In real life the early Il-2 did actually get kills against 109s that were surprised when it turned its guns on them. The early versions of the Il-2 were pretty maneuverable and faster than later versions. Weight on its own has nothing to do with turning ability, its power, wing loading, and control authority.

Also, you've mixed up high wingloading and low wingloading. Low wing loading increases turn rate, high wing loading decreases turn rate.

The flaps are overdone in terms of the lift they grant to the planes and underdone in drag...they are modeled in such a way that they do OK for landing and takeoff but if used in other flight regimes in unrealistic ways, they behave unrealistically. Planes with big flaps and big wings seem to get the most 'benefit' from this issue.  

That being said...I am extremely skeptical that you did a 360 degree turn in 3 seconds in any plane in this game. That is an extraordinary claim, and I'd like to see some evidence. 

 

 

Yes, the speed thing makes sense. Do you have any sources on flight tests done with early Il-2 models and on Il-2 engaging and shooting down 109's? Not that I don't believe it but it would interest me and I would like to read further into that.

 

Good point.

 

So, then it's the flaps that give the plane it's weird flight characteristics? Especially after the initial bank into the turn the plane snaps around like mad and after about 180° it starts to slow down a bit. It just....feels weird and unnatural when I'm flying it for a plane of that seize to be able to do that. Feels more like a War Thunder flight model.

 

Yeah no I corrected myself further down, the 3 seconds was for 180° reversal that I tested (what I meant with "snaps around like mad"), not a full on 360° turn.

 

Edited by Serec

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4 hours ago, =BLW=Tales said:

Hanging on the prop like a helicopter, stalling, without torque, and firing precisely is a common maneuver of russians fightes.

 

Retaining good aileron control at close to stall speed is a generic feature of BoX - just as it was with Rise of Flight.  I have no idea whether it is accurate or not, but the idea that this is more prevalent on one side is not true.  

 

11 minutes ago, Serec said:

 

So, then it's the flaps that give the plane it's weird flight characteristics? Especially after the initial bank into the turn the plane snaps around like mad and after about 180° it starts to slow down a bit. It just....feels weird and unnatural when I'm flying it for a plane of that seize to be able to do that. Feels more like a War Thunder flight model.

 

Yeah no I corrected myself further down, the 3 seconds was for 180° reversal that I tested (what I meant with "snaps around like mad"), not a full on 360° turn.

 

 

The trouble is that without a video to see what you are actually doing no-one can make any informed comment.  But here are a few thoughts.

 

"A plane of that size": this is not a huge aircraft.  The IL-2 mod 41 is about the same size and weight as a P-47 but with a much bigger wing (and much less power). Actually it has one of the lowest wing loadings in the game at minimum weight: less than the Spitfires. If you are flying it about nearly empty I would expect it to feel very light, but underpowered: just like a WW1 plane in fact.   It has a stall AoA very comparable with most of the fighters and a very low stall speed, so you can pull it aggressively into a turn: but you will then lose speed rapidly and it will take a long time - or height - to get it back.   

 

 

 

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Just now, Serec said:

 

Yes, the speed thing makes sense. Do you have any sources on flight tests done with early Il-2 models and on Il-2 engaging and shooting down 109's? Not that I don't believe it but it would interest me and I would like to read further into that.

 

Good point.

 

So, then it's the flaps that give the plane it's weird flight characteristics? Especially after the initial bank into the turn the plane snaps around like mad and after about 180° it starts to slow down a bit. It just....feels weird and unnatural when I'm flying it for a plane of that seize to be able to do that.

 

Yeah no I corrected myself further down, the 3 seconds was for 180° reversal that I tested (what I meant with "snaps around like mad"), not a full on 360° turn.

 

Yes, there are quite a few planes in the sim where if you drop the flaps you will gain what appears to be unrealistic turning ability and some planes become very difficult to stall even with extremely high AOA and low speeds. I'm not an expert but I think the flight model assumes too much lift for the flaps, and it might do this as a sort of compromise so that the flaps give the right amount of lift for take-off and landing within the confines of the current modeling. There's been a lot of noise about flap behavior with the P-47 and the Spitfire, but its been an issue on and off with the Yak and I think the FW-190. Its just much more egregious with the P-47 and the Spitfire, before it was a little more plausible. I do think we'll see a fix to the flaps eventually, but not before BoBP final release as their FM developers are putting the finishing touches on those planes. I'm not a programmer and I have no special insight, its just what I think.

Il-2s shot down 109s very occasionally and not during deliberate engagements by the Il-2, but in defending itself. I had read it in a pilot interview with an Il-2 pilot years back when I played Il-2 1946 but the site link I had is dead. Basically it happened when 109s tried to turn hard with an Il-2 at lower speeds, and got surprised when they could turn well, at least for a while, or when a 109 overshot an Il-2 during an attack and didn't have enough speed to get away before the Il-2 could get guns on. 

In my experience in online play, most  pilots are not careful about overshooting enemy planes and often fly right through the gunsight as they pass you by. If they haven't hit you terribly hard its not difficult to pull up a bit and shoot as they fly by. They are tremendously lucky that I am a poor shot. People think attackers or bombers are helpless and not maneuverable, but in reality they can often turn well or maintain speed or zoom climb for at least a short time, long enough to do some damage. If the fighter pilot is using his craft carefully then he is in little danger. But especially online, fighter pilots get greedy, turn hard and lose all their speed, then get shot down by a plane that surprises them. It really doesn't matter what plane you're flying against at that point, if you get low an slow, a U-2 can shoot you down. And yes, I've seen a U-2 shoot down a 109, purely because the 109 got themselves into a terribly situation and then did nothing to get out of it.

Wikipedia mentions the Il-2s killing quite a few slower Axis aircraft such as Stukas, He-111s and Hs-126s, and also mentions forcing an overshoot against enemy fighters as a defensive tactic commonly used (grain of salt for wiki sources, I know, but still). It also mentions a proposed Il-2 variant as a bomber interceptor, based on combat with Luftwaffe bombers. It was never produced as its speed would be too low to successfully pursue or intercept the bombers. 

 

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I'll just add I've shot down a LOT of 109's in a IL-2 41, because they think horizontally turning with me is a good idea. In fact it's nearly suicidal. Turning vertically? Big disadvantage. 

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On 9/10/2019 at 5:14 PM, Serec said:

what a valuable contribution to the discussion

when you have your mined set that its devs falt not yours for getting shoot down by that il-2 guy so many times, yes not mutch left to say then laugh

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I tend to think that it's good to read something before you insult the author, and also that it's better to say nothing than something rude.

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On 9/9/2019 at 11:56 PM, Serec said:

So,

I was flying on Wings in a 109 E7 and there was this guy called RedStrapONs_Trofimov. He was flying an IL-2 1941 version and was shooting down fighters left, right and center. I fought with him a few times and the way he was flying was beyond ridiculous. Top speed of an IL-2 is around 430 kph, he was chasing me and catching up to me while I was doing about 460 kph. He could perform a 180° turn in less than 2 seconds. I know the IL-2 has a high wingload but that is just out of the realm of physics.

So I went into a Quick Mission to test this out myself. I used 70l of fuel, lowest you can take and nothing else. Indicated top speed according to the stat card is 430 kph, well I got it all the way up to 460, which explains why I couldn't outrun it in a 109 E7. I could also perform a 180° turn in about 3 seconds, using flaps, and perform a 2nd 180° turn in another 4,5 seconds, only after that had I lost enough speed to where I couldn't continue the turn.

Now, I have never flown an IL-2 in real life but I would have thought that a plane, which weighs 4,5t empty, shouldn't be able to turn quicker than a Spitfire, or a Hurricane for that matter. The way the plane handles is more akin to a WW1 fighter than a WW2 ground attack plane. Maybe there is something wrong with the flight model, but then again, if somebody knows more than me, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

You can test it yourself as well by just doing a Quick Mission.

 

 

You're not the only one to notice this weird behavior. Another "trick" that some Russian squadrons use is to do the 180 deg. turn, but in the vertical and it goes even faster and gets the guns sooner on the extending 109...

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On 9/9/2019 at 10:56 PM, Serec said:

So,

I was flying on Wings in a 109 E7 and there was this guy called RedStrapONs_Trofimov. He was flying an IL-2 1941 version and was shooting down fighters left, right and center. I fought with him a few times and the way he was flying was beyond ridiculous. Top speed of an IL-2 is around 430 kph, he was chasing me and catching up to me while I was doing about 460 kph. He could perform a 180° turn in less than 2 seconds. I know the IL-2 has a high wingload but that is just out of the realm of physics.

So I went into a Quick Mission to test this out myself. I used 70l of fuel, lowest you can take and nothing else. Indicated top speed according to the stat card is 430 kph, well I got it all the way up to 460, which explains why I couldn't outrun it in a 109 E7. I could also perform a 180° turn in about 3 seconds, using flaps, and perform a 2nd 180° turn in another 4,5 seconds, only after that had I lost enough speed to where I couldn't continue the turn.

Now, I have never flown an IL-2 in real life but I would have thought that a plane, which weighs 4,5t empty, shouldn't be able to turn quicker than a Spitfire, or a Hurricane for that matter. The way the plane handles is more akin to a WW1 fighter than a WW2 ground attack plane. Maybe there is something wrong with the flight model, but then again, if somebody knows more than me, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

You can test it yourself as well by just doing a Quick Mission.

 

 

Your story is useless unless you give a track of this flight. 

 

An IL2 with few fuel, no rockets and bombs, in good hands, can be a good fighter, and very good against a guy who don't know how to fly properly his 109.

 

To me it's probably just bullshit, but proove me I'm wrong... 

Edited by F/JG300_Faucon
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Since we are talking FM -  Does having 0 wind and turbulence set in the mission equal "calm weather" or does it mean that the wind/turbulence dynamic in-game is completely disabled?

Yes there is a difference. 

 

If, in fact, the wind/turbulence is completely disabled (there is zero airflow on the map)  instead of calm (still airflow modeled throughout the map - though with negligible effect at ground level), then a lot of people have been wasting a massive amount of time over the years discussing the flight model based on it being flown through impossible conditions.   

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Ah, last time i flew IL-2 as a fighter on taw, i made the axis side cry.

 

But if you think IL-2 does some crazy things, 110 G-2 is even crazier! 

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IL-2 has a huge wing and lower wing load than Bf109. It’s not surprising that it can turn really well before running out of energy.

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