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Ivanskoye

I'm new here. Some advice, please?

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Hello all!

I'm new in the game so I tried to fly with the most simple engine management plane:Bf-109.
But the problems are started to realise for me, when I dogfighting with it.
I watched videos about it: How to....I read many-many forum topics about it but Nothing worked.
1.Boom and zoom I DID working until somebody started to follow me from my six.
2.Then if I was in trouble I dived and started to run away but Spit IX was still close and I coulnd't lose him--->Then what should I do?

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Welcome to WWII dogfighting.¬†ūüėĎ

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1 hour ago, Ivanskoye said:

Hello all!

I'm new in the game so I tried to fly with the most simple engine management plane:Bf-109.
But the problems are started to realise for me, when I dogfighting with it.
I watched videos about it: How to....I read many-many forum topics about it but Nothing worked.
1.Boom and zoom I DID working until somebody started to follow me from my six.
2.Then if I was in trouble I dived and started to run away but Spit IX was still close and I coulnd't lose him--->Then what should I do?

 

Try not to get in that situation, always have the altitude advantage, especially with the Axis aircraft. The fact is, is that you're not going to win every time. You need to learn patience and the right times to attack. These things will come with the more you fly. Each plane has its advantages and disadvantages, study these and use them. Don't go straight to the dogfighting option when you miss your first pass, Climb away and keep the energy. Spit IX is fast and can turn on a dime, stay high. If you're fighting against AI, they always know where you are at unfortunately. Best way to learn, is find a pilot who will take you under his wing on multiplayer. It's there where you will learn the HUMAN factor to dogfighting, all the mistakes people make, the style some people fly. That is the best way. I hope to see you around!

Edited by -332FG-Hank_DG
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Welcome to country of frustration. 

But did you really count on success against everybody right away. 

We got some people that simply excell for some reasons. And you have types like me. Their victims. 

If your feast on success in dogfight only, I am guessing your stay will be short. Train in spotting and even more important get good at identifying airplanes, a must if you aim to fly fastest planes available. 

I usually fly them slowest so they tend to come anyway. 

Find your own way to enjoy this game, regardless of your demises. Take lessons from them 

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39 minutes ago, LuseKofte said:

Find your own way to enjoy this game, regardless of your demises. Take lessons from them 

I can't agree with this more. Find your own way to enjoy the game. Myself, i enjoy being in a squadron flying coordinated missions that feel real and making it home alive, landing for me is the best part. No need for the highest kill rate on the multiplayer leader boards. Sure, getting online kills are fun and very rewarding, but getting a whole group out there and achieving our mission with success and not dying, nothing beats that.

Edited by -332FG-Hank_DG
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I will let others correct me but in that situation I might try to initiate a spiral climb.  If you have already been in a prolonged dive you will be in a good energy state to turn and climb without mushing.  The 109s are generally great climbers.  If that works and your enemy makes a mistake then you will regain the initiative or you can continue the climb to escape..

 

 

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16 hours ago, Ivanskoye said:

Hello all!

I'm new in the game so I tried to fly with the most simple engine management plane:Bf-109.
But the problems are started to realise for me, when I dogfighting with it.
I watched videos about it: How to....I read many-many forum topics about it but Nothing worked.
1.Boom and zoom I DID working until somebody started to follow me from my six.
2.Then if I was in trouble I dived and started to run away but Spit IX was still close and I coulnd't lose him--->Then what should I do?

The Spit IX is a formidable adversary for most 109s in game as it often outclimbs, outturns, and at some altitudes is faster than them. With the exception of the 109K4, which is a beast. A lot of advice you will see about 109s assumes the plane has many advantages in speed, climb and dive over its competition, which is not as true as it once was with the new BoBP planes. 

Ultimately there is no magic set of instructions to do to guarantee success...if there was, there wouldn't be air combat as everything would be pre-determined. For every possible action you can take, there is a way for a clever enemy to counter it, even if that enemy is in a poorer performing aircraft. Just ask all the 109 pilots who get shot down by I-16s. 

Diving away only works when your opponent is out of guns range. If you dive away from a faster or higher enemy you may not accelerate enough to gain any separation, or at least not enough to get out of gun range. Additionally, if you are at mid-to-low altitudes, you may not have enough room to gain max speed in a dive.

Even the legendarily good divers like the P-47 or FW-190s only gain a few hundred yards of separation when starting a dive at equal altitude and speed with a poorer-diving aircraft, and that's over the course of a long dive of many thousands of feet. Having that dive advantage seems marginal but can be huge in combat, but its not a magical way to evade. So if your enemy is 500 yards away, even if you dive faster than him by the end of the dive you might only be 1000m away or even less, and for the entire time of the dive the enemy can keep shooting at you the whole time. So, diving straight away from an enemy should only be done when you are more than 1000 m away (i.e. outside most effective gun ranges), and he doesn't have a huge energy/alt advantage (or his max dive speed is going to make it impossible for him to follow you without losing control surfaces - this works well against Russian aircraft with low dive speed limits but not great against Western allied planes, that have higher dive speed limits).

An enemy on your 6 is very hard to shake no matter how good your aircraft is - at that point there's really nothing you can do to gaurantee escape, especially if the enemy pilot is skilled. Barrel rolls, break turns and spiral dives are common defensive maneuvers, but the defensive maneuver you take will depend on your aircraft and the enemy's, as you want to engage in a maneuver they can't follow. For this you need to know both your aircraft and your enemy's very well.

Here's a video Sheriff did specifically on defensive flying. Its a good rundown of the tactics you can use regardless of aircraft to keep an enemy off your six, or possibly to evade them once they are there.
 



If you are new to the game, be gentle with yourself for a while. If you are flying online, be twice as gentle. There are people flying online who have hundreds or thousands of hours in these aircraft. The advantage of that experience can't be overstated and the only way to counter it is with your own experience. Getting a few kills or not dying in even a few sorties is an accomplishment in the multiplayer environment. With practice and patience you can and will improve.

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16 hours ago, Ivanskoye said:

2.Then if I was in trouble I dived and started to run away but Spit IX was still close and I coulnd't lose him--->Then what should I do?

 

In this situation, one and only one thing works: 

 

image.png.0d30eb75013800f7b5d4d8fe19ba86be.png

 

(Matrix bullet dodging)

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Keep the setting on relatively easy, don't take it too seriously yet, play quick missions and careers. A game like this takes a long time to get competent at let alone good.

 

I am new to this and fully expect it to take me months. I have a life, a job, and cant spend hours at it. But I knew all this before I bought it.

 

Learn from your mistakes. Watch videos on the basics of flying and controlling the plane. Don't worry too much about dogfighting yet. Just learn to take off, fly, land. Shooting can come later.

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42 minutes ago, CrazyDuck said:

 

In this situation, one and only one thing works: 

 

image.png.0d30eb75013800f7b5d4d8fe19ba86be.png

 

(Matrix bullet dodging)

"Are you saying I can dodge bullets?"
"No OP, I'm saying that if you fly an Il-2...you won't have to."

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You may go to fast server Berloga, start recording and do your best in dogfight. Later check those recordings, from different perspectives, especially from yours behind. Do not cry when you first time see your "avoiding" that looks from behind like flying in straight line ;)

Also, you need to fly booth sides, to see what others do. Sometimes you win, and sometimes you learn from better ones. Either way, you never loose ;)

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9 minutes ago, =EXPEND=Capt_Yorkshire said:

Play the berloga server for a few hours its the fastest and most fun way to get good at killing and defensive stuff just mess about.:good:

Is Berloga back up? I went to play on teh weekend and couldn't find it.

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23 minutes ago, -[HRAF]Roland_HUNter said:

I do not believe that.
If that is real, how the hell the Luftwaffe shot down so many Spits, hmm?

Just like they shot down so many other aircraft, element of surprise and a good climb rate. 

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On 9/9/2019 at 1:47 PM, RedKestrel said:

 
Diving away only works when your opponent is out of guns range. If you dive away from a faster or higher enemy you may not accelerate enough to gain any separation, or at least not enough to get out of gun range. Additionally, if you are at mid-to-low altitudes, you may not have enough room to gain max speed in a dive.

Even the legendarily good divers like the P-47 or FW-190s only gain a few hundred yards of separation when starting a dive at equal altitude and speed with a poorer-diving aircraft, and that's over the course of a long dive of many thousands of feet. Having that dive advantage seems marginal but can be huge in combat, but its not a magical way to evade. 

 

This!

 

Having a 6 "close" or "far" can be rather subjective, specialy if you are inside the cockpit looking back.

 

Your options depend a Lot on the planes involved and on their relative Energy state, wich is not easy to gauge, even if experienced.

 

AND about magic solutions. I would say the cosest to it is flying with a human wingman, a good one specialy!

You might not sake off a spit off your tail, but you might survive long enough for your wingman to shake him off or shoot him down.

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On 9/11/2019 at 4:02 PM, =FEW=fernando11 said:

 

...

AND about magic solutions. I would say the cosest to it is flying with a human wingman, a good one specialy!

You might not sake off a spit off your tail, but you might survive long enough for your wingman to shake him off or shoot him down.

 

Or you can use your better roll rate to turn the tables in a flat scissors.

 

Correction: I don't fly the 109 too much, so I was under the impression that it had a good roll rate. On the other hand, I believe that the 190 would be in a better position to use roll rate to turn the tables on a Spit.

Edited by JimTM

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6 hours ago, -[HRAF]Roland_HUNter said:

I do not believe that.
If that is real, how the hell the Luftwaffe shot down so many Spits, hmm?

Better roll rate, higher speed, better dive, team tactics, better high speed controllability.

 

 

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6 hours ago, -[HRAF]Roland_HUNter said:

I do not believe that.
If that is real, how the hell the Luftwaffe shot down so many Spits, hmm?

 

Probably because tactics and pilot experience (on both sides) matters more than individual aircraft performance?

Edited by ShamrockOneFive

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Which was my suggestion. Experience has no substitute, and expect that until you get some that you’ll be bailing out a lot. See instructional video below of your current predicament:

 

 

 

Only way to cure that is to fly a lot and take some lumps along the way.

 

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On 9/11/2019 at 3:06 PM, -[HRAF]Roland_HUNter said:

If that is real, how the hell the Luftwaffe shot down so many Spits, hmm?

Well, obviously, they didn't do it with the Spitfire on their tail! The really good ones knew how not to get themselves into that situation. Once the Spitfire was there you were in trouble. If it was flown by someone like Johnny Johnson, you just might as well pop the canopy and jump over the side. 

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46 minutes ago, Bilbo_Baggins said:

Hi there RedKestrel,

Sorry, I’m confused at this. Are you saying the BF109 has fast roll rate and good dive high speed control authority?

 


He probably meant the Fw 190

Edited by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard

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2 hours ago, Bilbo_Baggins said:

 

Hi there RedKestrel,

 

Sorry, I’m confused at this. Are you saying the BF109 has fast roll rate and good dive high speed control authority?

 

The BF109 has very poor aileron control, in fact it’s the slowest roller of all single engine fighter machines in-game, almost double as slow in roll speed of lagg-3 and La5, and also has the worst high speed control authority of all planes by far. It is a brick at high speed. 

 

Regards 

 

 

 

 

I thought we were talking about the FW190? 

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