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IV./JG51-H_Stiglitz

ReShade considered as cheat or not?

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Will reShade be considered as cheating? If so, a large amount of guys will probably have some trouble if they don‘t remove it in time or simply did not see the announcement about cheating.

 

does anyone know?

cheers and thanks

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I agree that such a sternly worded statement about immediate and severe action needs some clarification as to what may trigger such retribution. Obviously anyone who is willingly cheating knows what they are doing, but there's a bunch of grey zone actions such as reShade or adjusting gamma that could conceivably be interpreted as modifying game files. I don't want to take any risks with my software access thank you.

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Does ReShade alter game files? If so, does it run with MODS OFF?

 

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39 minutes ago, [DBS]Browning said:

Same question for 3Dmigoto mod.

 

If fixing the b0rked cloud , so that you can see plane flying 100m above puffy cloud formation is considered cheating...

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2 minutes ago, sevenless said:

Does ReShade alter game files? If so, does it run with MODS OFF?

Reshade does run if the check box „Enable mods“ is deactivated

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Online we should have all the same standard software for my opinion. Call it "fair play".

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10 minutes ago, =FC=SteelFalcon said:

Reshade does run if the check box „Enable mods“ is deactivated

 

Then it is ok. If it doesn´t alter gamefiles, it is no cheating.

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Yes, ReShades adds files into the bin folder which are used to create the wanted effects ingame.

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Well crud. I was camping all weekend and obviously missed an announcement. Where can I find it?

Edited by pfrances

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3 minutes ago, pfrances said:

Well crud. I was camping all weekend and obviously missed an announcement. Where can I find it?

 

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So thats what the translation requirement was for.

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Almost all VR user are using one or other mod or fix to be able to play properly. 

 

I think many of them want some clarification of what cheating means. Does Zoom VR mod and VR cloud fix count as cheating? Because the game itself surely do not deliver "equal" playing experience for screen and VR users alike. Screen and track IR support is well developed legacy feature, and VR is new tech slapped on old game engine that was never designed VR in mind.

Edited by Cpt_Siddy
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Quote

Schedule No. 3 to the User Agreement

SAFE AND FAIR PLAY

To ensure our game is fair and fun for everyone, we do not tolerate cheating or fraudulent behavior.

Fraudulent service providers are often involved in illegal activity, hacking and scams; these activities hurt innocent people, in addition to being unfair to other players.

To help us create a great gaming environment, and to safeguard your account and device from abuse, please steer clear of the following dangers:

1. THIRD PARTY SOFTWARE
Third party software consists of unapproved apps that manipulate gameplay. By altering game functionality, third party software aims to provide unfair advantages while potentially putting players’ ccounts and privacy at risk.

Third party software includes:

  • Hacks, “mods”, or programs that unfairly alter game functionality
  • “Bots”, or gameplay automation services or scripts
  • Any other programs that aim to modify or provide unearned progress

 

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Xcuse me. Is VR excused from cheating?

26 minutes ago, Cpt_Siddy said:

Because the game itself surely do not deliver "equal" playing experience for screen and VR users alike

I find VR in many things are a advantage. 

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21 minutes ago, LuseKofte said:

Xcuse me. Is VR excused from cheating?

I find VR in many things are a advantage. 

 

Like how planes disappear when you look at them with cloud background? 

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That message was not needed to translate into Finnish, so that must mean our community of maybe 150-200 pilots are not suspected of cheating, right?

So all you non-Finnish speakers, would you PLEASE get your act together!!

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3 minutes ago, LeLv30_Redwing said:

That message was not needed to translate into Finnish, so that must mean our community of maybe 150-200 pilots are not suspected of cheating, right?

So all you non-Finnish speakers, would you PLEASE get your act together!!

If we don't get our act together will we be....

 

...Finnished????

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  • Hacks, “mods”, or programs that unfairly alter game functionality
  • Any other programs that aim to modify or provide unearned progress

The wording, again, is so lawyer and vage that you could literally ban anyone for anything. A Teamspeak or Discord could be, if lawyer-weasel-worded enough, get anyone banned. 

 

Voice comms are a 3rd party programs that, if the definition is stretched to its max lawyer-talk-cosmic-dimensions, can give unfair advantage since it is not integral part of IL-2, and thus unevens the gameplay in MP against people not on voice comms (because game don't have any).

 

Kind of chilling getting this run of the mill lawyer texts in a game where people have anything from custom skins to help group cohesion to game engine modifying shader mods that are explicitly meant to augment the game play (usually by fixing some bugs or shortcomings)

 

3 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

If we don't get our act together will we be....

 

...Finnished????

 

It will be extremely Finnicky...

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4 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

If we don't get our act together will we be....

 

...Finnished????


I'll give you a hint what happens to you personally;

 

Kestrel.jpg

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Just now, Cpt_Siddy said:

 

  • Hacks, “mods”, or programs that unfairly alter game functionality
  • Any other programs that aim to modify or provide unearned progress

The wording, again, is so lawyer and vage that you could literally ban anyone for anything. A Teamspeak or Discord could be, if lawyer-weasel-worded enough, get anyone banned. 

 

Voice comms are a 3rd party programs that, if the definition is stretched to its max lawyer-talk-cosmic-dimensions, can give unfair advantage since it is not integral part of IL-2, and thus unevens the gameplay in MP against people not on voice comms (because game don't have any).

 

Kind of chilling getting this run of the mill lawyer texts in a game where people have anything from custom skins to help group cohesion to game engine modifying shader mods that are explicitly meant to augment the game play (usually by fixing some bugs or shortcomings)

 

 

Do you have an alternative to 'vague' 'lawyer' wording? They can't provide a list of every cheat that might be tried.

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I dont know much about Reshade as I've never used it, but I do rely heavily on the 3dmigoto mod. I'm sure if the devs considered either a cheat they would've been blocked long ago.

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1 minute ago, LeLv30_Redwing said:


I'll give you a hint what happens to you personally;

 

Kestrel.jpg

This is obviously photoshopped, I've never in my life looked that good naked.

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2 minutes ago, II./JG77_BlueCordBandit said:

They would've been blocked long ago.

 

I don't think so:

 

"Any previous postings about our anti-cheating policies are now made obsolete by this message."

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Just now, AndyJWest said:

 

Do you have an alternative to 'vague' 'lawyer' wording? They can't provide a list of every cheat that might be tried.

Some clarification on some of the more commonly used mods like ReShade would be a good start to ease some people's minds, as well as altering the game files to permit lower gamma to lower levels than the game interface permits, for example. The stuff that is commonly used online. 

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17 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

Some clarification on some of the more commonly used mods like ReShade would be a good start to ease some people's minds, as well as altering the game files to permit lower gamma to lower levels than the game interface permits, for example. The stuff that is commonly used online. 

 

Clarification on 'commonly used mods' won't remove the need for general statements as to what isn't permitted. 

 

As for 'altering the game files to permit lower gamma to lower levels than the game interface permits', personally I'd have thought that anyone doing that was pushing their luck, since it is clearly being done to gain an advantage. Why else would anyone do it?

 

Edited by AndyJWest

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These EULA's are deliberately left vague so the company can have maximum leeway in doing what it wants to. This is also the reason EU country courts wipe their behinds with arbitrary EULA's that often go directly against many EU country consumer protection laws, mainly in digital property rights and resale of product domain. 

The fact that this new policy was announced as "lol follow the EULA or else" does not help. 

 

The thing is, this is very niche community, and probably has only handful cheaters if any (i have seen one cheater myself).

And by cheating, i mean a person who modified memory directly to make his G-2 110 fly like 262. He was promptly recorded and banned from the server by the server admin, so there was no need for IL-2 devs to step in. By a large margin, IL-2 community is self policing and servers have been clean for 99.99999% of time.

 

This new stance seems to take that responsibility from server admins and place it squarely on the company. Hence there is fear that in worst case scenario, the game company will start enforcing their rules on MP servers without the consent of the admins and ban people that use "game experience enhancing" mods like shaders, Zooms and fixes/workarounds.

Even more worrying this is because there was this thing with transparent skins, that was abuse of the feature in game engine. The line of what is cheating and what is an acceptable mod to get better, say, VR experience is drawn in water. And there is opinions that people hold ranging from Zoom mods are fine to trolls that will publicly say that voice comms are bannable offence! This will get many people jittery in the face of possibility of losing their account and being branded a cheater. 

 

 

Edited by Cpt_Siddy

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14 minutes ago, AndyJWest said:

 

, since it is clearly being done to gain an advantage. Why else would anyone do it?

 

 

because its been a recommended and unchallenged graphic setting for improving spotting since god was a boy...

 

 

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The EULA has always existed. And people have (according to 1C-777 statements) previously been banned by them for violating it. Accordingly, the recent announcement doesn't actually change anything substantive.

 

 

 

1 minute ago, 9./JG52_BOO said:

 

because its been a recommended and unchallenged graphic setting for improving spotting since god was a boy...

 

 

 

Recommended by who? Where?

Edited by AndyJWest

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1 minute ago, AndyJWest said:

The EULA has always existed. And people have (according to 1C-777 statements) previously been banned by them for violating it. Accordingly, the recent announcement doesn't actually change anything substantive.

 

That's all and good, I wish the 1C-777 made that crystal clear so this thread becomes obsolete. 

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2 minutes ago, AndyJWest said:

The EULA has always existed. And people have (according to 1C-777 statements) previously been banned by them for violating it. Accordingly, the recent announcement doesn't actually change anything substantive.

 

 

 

 

Recommended by who? Where?

you might want to start with the 4 pages of threads and posts that typing in "0.6 gamma" into the search facility produces.

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Just now, Cpt_Siddy said:

 

That's all and good, I wish the 1C-777 made that crystal clear so this thread becomes obsolete. 

 

I'd have thought that a statement directly quoting the EULA and saying that the EULA was being enforced was clear enough. What people seem to be asking for is something that cannot possibly be provided - an exhaustive list of everything that can or cannot be done. 

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Obviously it isn't clear enough. If it were clear enough there wouldn't be 4 thread in the last hour asking for clarification, would there? And I can't blame them, really. An announcement that says, essentially, 'we are going to start banning people that are pushing the limits' and having no clear idea what those limits might be. By the definition in the EULA I could argue that all kinds of things are a no-go and have a firm footing to do so.

 

The announcement as worded makes it seem like they feel there is a sizable issue with cheating in the game. I haven't seen it so I'm left wondering what they are seeing, thus the question: What are they intending?

Edited by /SF/Disarray
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23 minutes ago, AndyJWest said:

 

I'd have thought that a statement directly quoting the EULA and saying that the EULA was being enforced was clear enough. What people seem to be asking for is something that cannot possibly be provided - an exhaustive list of everything that can or cannot be done. 

 

 

Hey, i know what you mean. But then that new announcement appeared, that went under the radar of many and now it is on front page of general and many people suddenly remember that they got mods that changes stuff...

 

This is a classic case of someone saying with deep voice "don't panic"... in a room full of worried people.

 

 

So, a clarification like "programs altering memory of running IL-2.exe " or such. This is clear and blatant violation that is signature move of cheaters in MP games that has lots of client side stuff governing the multiplayer. Games like PlanetSide2, that are MMO's with heavy client side calculations have very sophisticated anti cheat. Tinkering in memory will get you banned under a second. Things like changing skins, having some values changed in .ini files or such is considered client modding and is HUGE gray area. Some games let you go nuts with it, others go bananas for even doing a custom skin. This is why many people are worried. No one knows where this company stands on these things since this new announcement made all previous statements null and void. 

 

Edited by Cpt_Siddy

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2 minutes ago, AndyJWest said:

 

Clarification on 'commonly used mods' won't remove the need for general statements as to what isn't permitted. 

 

As for 'altering the game files to permit lower gamma to lower levels than the game interface permits', personally I'd have thought that anyone doing that was pushing their luck, since it is clearly being done to gain an advantage. Why else would anyone do it?

 

I'm not disagreeing here, they need to cover cheats that are going on now and ones that might happen in the future and the only solution is, unfortunately, lawyery language. But specific references to things used fairly commonly across the online community would make for much less confusion. 

The gamma adjustment gets suggested often enough to people trying to improve spotting that if it is considered cheating there are a lot of people who are going to get burned because they think its just SOP. Lots of people probably don't even think of it as a mod, more like an inconvenient way of adjusting an in-game setting. There are guides all over the forums that have been around for years that talk about adjusting ini files for better graphics and performance and changing gamma to improving spotting. None of these have been taken down by the forum mods so tons of people have no reason to think they are against the EULA. Its tempting to say "Sucks to be them" but with the online community being relatively small, losing anybody to something that is, frankly, a tiny problem is really more of a "Sucks to be all of us". 

If they have a team of people working on this as the post implied, then they must have people who can tell us one way or another, and its in everybody's best interest for some kind of ruling to be issued on the few most commonly used tweaks. 






 

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This is not eSport title nor F2P MMO depending on micro-transactions. Sometimes anything can ruin a sortie be it some chat troll, net-lag, bugs or a cheater. In months time it's nothing and so far admins did a good job. Going with image of police like badges and passively aggressive tones is a very bad PR.
 

What is policy on false positives, then? This "no warning" policy is very troublesome.

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Ok, we got post-announcement Jason post saying that carry on as usual, so now we got a statement that is officially unofficial :biggrin:

 

apocalypse averted 

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