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Posted (edited)

The main problem with the Korean war is that it doesn't suite the 5 vs 5 planeset that the devs currently have.

The communists have only 2 aircraft (variants), MiG-15 and MiG-15bis. The UN forces have 3 major variants of the F-86A/E/F that and minor variants should be represented. Then we have 2nd tier jets such as the F-80C and F9F and lots more aircraft types and after that we have the super props and legacy WW2 propeller aircraft.

We could add North Korean prop aircraft such as the La-9, Yak-9P etc, but in my opinion that is waste of time. The original North Korean Air Force was destroyed within a month of hostilities starting. From then on the Communists operated only MiG-15s from November 1950 onwards and Po-2s doing night raids.

The role of Communists is equally 1 dimensional. Fly combat air patrol over supply routes into North Korea which became "MiG Alley". The MiG-15s were purely defensive, operated around the Chinese/NK border and wouldn't fly anywhere near the frontline. Meanwhile UN forces are doing close air support, fighter sweeps, interdiction.

 

The Korean Air War is such a huge victory for the UN forces that the Luftwaffe had more offensive capabilities in 1945 then the Communists Air Forces, who were penned up in the north, did throughout the whole war
Image result for MiG alley

Probably the best Jet age air war that can be represented in this format is the Arab-Israeli Wars from 67-73, 6 Day War, War of Attrition and Yom Kippur.

In this case both sides have the necessary diversity of aircraft and mission profiles. The downside to this is that systems that aren't currently done need to be modelled, radars, heatseakers and radar guided missiles etc.

Edited by =362nd_FS=RoflSeal
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2 hours ago, kestrel79 said:

I think they'll go with whatever will bring in the most sales next. I'm thinking Korea too since it has the most crossover appeal potential in the flight sim community. Unless they have other marketing data to say otherwise.

 

Mig-15 and F-86 will appeal to both US and Russian markets. Early jets along with high performance piston engine aircraft which will appeal to both the IL-2 Great Battles market (us) and the DCS market. True DCS has these planes already...but no actual historical map to fly them on and no other support craft from the era so if IL2 team goes here they will smoke them :)

 

I hope they go Pacific...but will that really increase sales? I don't think Russians are that into the Pacific war, and no jets to appeal to DCS folks. Korea or some other early jet scenario seems like a cool idea that hasn't really been touched since Mig Alley?

 

I am not into jets otherwise we have DCS. Going Head to Head with DCS is a bad choice from my point of view. Il2 has its own niche and DCS has another. There is little overlap, and the Me 262 is an abnormal and unique case in WWII. It is true that DCS with Normandy and with some planes like P51 (flown over Las Vegas 🙂 ) has put a foot into IL2 business, but everything is still to be done, there is no well done campaign yet.

 

In that case I prefer IL2 to do BoN Battle of Normandy with a D-Day scenario on the 4th and 5th of June 1944. I would buy that instantly.

 

I bought Tanks just to support Jason and the team, and because it may help improving as a side effect BoBp tanks or maps, but I have no interest at all into playing with it. If Jason goes for Korea I will not buy it as this means for me that he is diverting completely from the WWII theaters. Logically after Korea comes Viet-nam, Kuwait, Afganistan etc.. but then I am out.

 

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I really don’t mind what comes next, as long as the gameplay is polished and complete.  With the current exchange rate there isn’t much incentive to spend $110+ on something I won’t actually use. 

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Beware the Normandy trap! Been done too many times, available in DCS, aircraft set will be difficult sell to those with current products.

 

Map plus a few new aircraft for Normandy or Italy, but a whole new game on Overlord I would personally avoid.

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As long as it has a decent career mode as BoS, BoM and BoK have, I don´t mind flying over New-Guinea-43, Normandy-44 or Poland-44. All of that would be interesting stuff.

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, IckyATLAS said:

 

I am not into jets otherwise we have DCS. Going Head to Head with DCS is a bad choice from my point of view. Il2 has its own niche and DCS has another. There is little overlap, and the Me 262 is an abnormal and unique case in WWII. It is true that DCS with Normandy and with some planes like P51 (flown over Las Vegas 🙂 ) has put a foot into IL2 business, but everything is still to be done, there is no well done campaign yet.

 

The problem is the total nonsense of DCS business format and development time. Considering the EXCELLENT (really top-nocht modules) Korean modules by (ex) Belsimtek (F-86 and Mig-15) is really a nonsense we still don't have a Korean map. For my opinion F-86 is one the best module ever seen in a flight sim, and it would be fantastic could fly it in a immersive map, even if only against Mig-15. But this will probably never happen because of the nonsense of DCS.

 

So even if i would prefer Midway or (finally) an Italian theater (Husky or the North), i think Jason & c. could decide also for a Korean option too (may be in the future).

 

The "ten aicrafts" format is not a law, and for sure it can not be a limit in the decision of the "where to go".

Edited by 150GCT_Veltro
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Presume that the team can handle one major project at a time with some subsidiary / 3rd party efforts based on overlap. Apart from Normandy - only because it is a little obvious - I would sign up to most theatres that they decide.

 

But they obviously need to be realistic on interest / revenue.

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Maybe a stupid thought, but let's assume the trip goes to Midway.
Well, I'd say that the map effort, in spite of the many ships (apart from the aircraft carriers which would be more detailed), remains within limits. After all there is 90 % water there.
But what about the rest. Would a career mode be worthwhile at all? Even if you add the coral sea. Maybe one or two scripted campaigns (e.g. 20 missions with changing types) might be enough for one side each?

 

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2 hours ago, EAF19_Marsh said:

Beware the Normandy trap! Been done too many times, available in DCS, aircraft set will be difficult sell to those with current products.

 

Map plus a few new aircraft for Normandy or Italy, but a whole new game on Overlord I would personally avoid.

 

I would tend to agree. There is a risk of lack of novelty.

But maybe one ideal thing would be that IL2 dev team takes over the COD campaign and does a good lifting with maybe a new map, better plane controls, there are also some graphics effects that I find better in COD. So combine the good things of both worlds and we could have a fantastic BoC (Battle Over the Channel 🙂 ) campaign, maybe without too much investment.

 

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17 hours ago, Big_Al_the_Allo said:

Maybe a stupid thought, but let's assume the trip goes to Midway.
Well, I'd say that the map effort, in spite of the many ships (apart from the aircraft carriers which would be more detailed), remains within limits. After all there is 90 % water there.
But what about the rest. Would a career mode be worthwhile at all? Even if you add the coral sea. Maybe one or two scripted campaigns (e.g. 20 missions with changing types) might be enough for one side each?

 

 

Was the plan not a first stop at Okinawa? I appreciate that this also has its limitations for the Japanese career (would be mostly air starts after the first couple if days?) but it does offer at least some map interest.

 

Was surprised that Guadalcanal was not the initial choice.

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12 minutes ago, EAF19_Marsh said:

 

Was the plan not a first stop at Okinawa? I appreciate that this also has its limitations for the Japanese career (would be mostly air starts after the first couple if days?) but it does offer at least some map interest.

 

Was surprised that Guadalcanal was not the initial choice.

 

I am wondering if the idea was Midway was the selling feature but Guadalcanal would be featured anyways. The aircraft set is essentially the same for those early battles and the map team wouldn't have much to do with just Midway. We've seen them do that with Bodenplatte with the slightly more famous battle being the title but the timeline goes all the way from September 1944 to April 1945.

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3 hours ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

 

I am wondering if the idea was Midway was the selling feature but Guadalcanal would be featured anyways. The aircraft set is essentially the same for those early battles and the map team wouldn't have much to do with just Midway. We've seen them do that with Bodenplatte with the slightly more famous battle being the title but the timeline goes all the way from September 1944 to April 1945.

 

Yes, you may well be correct about that.

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22 hours ago, IckyATLAS said:

I would tend to agree. There is a risk of lack of novelty.

But maybe one ideal thing would be that IL2 dev team takes over the COD campaign and does a good lifting with maybe a new map, better plane controls, there are also some graphics effects that I find better in COD. So combine the good things of both worlds and we could have a fantastic BoC (Battle Over the Channel 🙂 ) campaign, maybe without too much investment.

And here we go again... How about we leave clod alone and let people who like it enjoy it instead of constant "IL2 devs should take over clod, kill that project" etc. I read your post few times but can't really figure if you meant to take over clod as a game or just do battle of britain expansion. If first, then really, just drop this already, clod has its fan base, it's made in dev's free time and we still have not seen their first expansion to judge it. I like the big scale of clod with over 100 planes on the screen, it's perfect for battle of britain. Watching bombing run of 50 he111 with escort and hurricanes trying to intercept it amazing.

 

If you meant the second thing, then i guess it's one of this forum myths. That CloD is somehow blocking devs to go to africa or channel. It's just ridiculus. While it's always a bit of competition, il-2 is not the only fly sim out there. DCS did normandy map and then il-2 went to pretty similar place. Is clod really that big of a competition than DCS? If 2 the biggest sims can do similar battle then how can clod block anything? Even small dev studio making Wings over the Reich decieded to make battle of britain even tho clod has it. If it was not the problem for them, how can it be for a big company 1C/777?

 

If devs of box would like to do Africa or Channel, they will do it anyway. Clod has nothing to do with it. It was even said long time ago by Jason in Q&A, if there will be oportunity, they may do Africa or other battles, even if CloD already has them.

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Posted (edited)

Clod could develop Med scenario from Africa to Italy about the historic time 40-42/43.

IL2 GB could cover the Italy scenario period 43-44/45, gain another time ( 1 year) available to complete their research to PTO....in the meaning time we could have an interesting Italy scenario with lot of fun, great planeset ( with stunning Italian planes serie 5) and all the planes from BOBP we already have, would fit greatl

 

 

 

On 8/25/2019 at 11:49 PM, Atlasapl said:

 

Plus throw the Ki-44 in somewhere with an appropriate map, and you can take my money now.

 

Edited by ITAF_Rani
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1 hour ago, InProgress said:

And here we go again... How about we leave clod alone and let people who like it enjoy it instead of constant "IL2 devs should take over clod, kill that project" etc. I read your post few times but can't really figure if you meant to take over clod as a game or just do battle of britain expansion. If first, then really, just drop this already, clod has its fan base, it's made in dev's free time and we still have not seen their first expansion to judge it. I like the big scale of clod with over 100 planes on the screen, it's perfect for battle of britain. Watching bombing run of 50 he111 with escort and hurricanes trying to intercept it amazing.

 

If you meant the second thing, then i guess it's one of this forum myths. That CloD is somehow blocking devs to go to africa or channel. It's just ridiculus. While it's always a bit of competition, il-2 is not the only fly sim out there. DCS did normandy map and then il-2 went to pretty similar place. Is clod really that big of a competition than DCS? If 2 the biggest sims can do similar battle then how can clod block anything? Even small dev studio making Wings over the Reich decieded to make battle of britain even tho clod has it. If it was not the problem for them, how can it be for a big company 1C/777?

 

If devs of box would like to do Africa or Channel, they will do it anyway. Clod has nothing to do with it. It was even said long time ago by Jason in Q&A, if there will be oportunity, they may do Africa or other battles, even if CloD already has them.

I believe 1C/777 will cover BoB and Africa.

But not in the near future, at least until TF stop working on clod or after clod become obsolete with it's expansions or unprofitable or until there are other theatres of war 1C/777 can cover first......but there is a big chance BoB and Africa will be in GB eventually!

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On 8/28/2019 at 10:13 AM, EAF19_Marsh said:

Beware the Normandy trap! Been done too many times, available in DCS, aircraft set will be difficult sell to those with current products.

 

It hadn't ever been done right. The only decent planeset was avalable in IL-2 '46 (yet without a Typhoon, for example) and there the maps were kind of lackluster (at least they provided a pre- and post D-Day map, which was cool).

 

The DCS Normandy map is a joke without the fitting airplanes. Unless you want to fight F-14Bs in your 109K-4.

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21 minutes ago, Bremspropeller said:

The DCS Normandy map is a joke without the fitting airplanes. Unless you want to fight F-14Bs in your 109K-4.

 

Not even the K-4 (or the D-9) fits the Normandy map. The Allies had advanced out of Normandy by the time the new models reached the front.

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1 hour ago, Bremspropeller said:

The DCS Normandy map is a joke without the fitting airplanes. Unless you want to fight F-14Bs in your 109K-4.

 

Not only that. The complete absense of any kind of meaningfull SP content is a disgrace.

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Salutations,

 

At ease pilots. :coffee:

 

The developers more than have their hands full with what they are working on currently. Not to mention all of the corrections and improvements, to what they release next, will require addressing.

 

Relax. Life is good and getting better. :yahoo:

 

As always... watch your six. 

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Posted (edited)

A small late war Soviet pack to give them something to match up with the Bodenplatte aircraft would be nice, like maybe the Yak 3, LA 7 and Yak 9, the LA5 FN could be included in this pack too.

 

Obviously its a huge amount of work to make more BoS/M/K/BP sized expansions with the map and 10 aircraft plane sets, but Africa 1941 or Solomons 1942 would get me excited.

Edited by =SIM=Ruttley
Added piece

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If the Pacific is indeed in the future for this series, as previously mentioned, Burma would make a lot of sense. I understand that availability of data/info on Japanese types is a limiting factor. But, it would give the devs their first crack at a Japanese Army plane set. Aircraft types could look something like this:

 

Japanese

Ki-21 Sally IIb                         Heavy Bomber

Ki-27 Nate                              Fighter

Ki-30 Ann                                Light Bomber

Ki-43 Oscar                            Fighter

Ki-15 Babs                              Command/Recon

K-44 Tojo (Collector)            Fighter

 

Allied

Brewster Buffalo Mk I          Fighter

P-40B Kittyhawk                   Fighter

Lysander Mk II                       Command/Recon

Blenheim Mk IV                     Light Bomber

Wellington Mk II                    Medium Bomber

C-47 Dakota (Collector)       Air Mobility/Logistics

 

Other types that may be used with a Burma map include: Hurricane IIb, P-40E. This presumes the Hurricane will already be developed. If the Hurricane has not already been developed, substitute the Hurricane for the Lysander. For play balance, the Ki-15 recce could be replaced by Ki-48 Lily (light twin bomber). But, Air Marshall mode may benefit with recce aircraft types. Importance of air mobility would be an allied strategy to consider. If need be, Japanese Sally's were also used for limited transport role. 

 

 

 

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36 minutes ago, 1./KG4_EKat said:

Japanese

Ki-21 Sally IIb                         Heavy Bomber

Ki-27 Nate                              Fighter

Ki-30 Ann                                Light Bomber

Ki-43 Oscar                            Fighter

Ki-15 Babs                              Command/Recon

K-44 Tojo (Collector)            Fighter

 

I would replace one with the Ki 45 as it saw service as heavy figther/long range escort, ground attacker, bomber interceptor and night figther in multiple theatres across the war.

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9 minutes ago, Angel24Marin said:

I would replace one with the Ki 45 as it saw service as heavy figther/long range escort, ground attacker, bomber interceptor and night figther in multiple theatres across the war.

Good suggestion. I was focusing on an early 1942 order of battle. But, the Ki-45 reportedly tangled with the AVG in June 1942, so it certainly could be included. Particularly if the type is documented adequately. Likewise, the Ki-44 had only a small presence in the early Burma order of battle is it only fought in Burma while going through field trials. But, I know it would be popular, so it has that going for it. 

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1 hour ago, 1./KG4_EKat said:

If the Pacific is indeed in the future for this series, as previously mentioned, Burma would make a lot of sense. I understand that availability of data/info on Japanese types is a limiting factor. But, it would give the devs their first crack at a Japanese Army plane set. Aircraft types could look something like this:

 

Japanese

Ki-21 Sally IIb                         Heavy Bomber

Ki-27 Nate                              Fighter

Ki-30 Ann                                Light Bomber

Ki-43 Oscar                            Fighter

Ki-15 Babs                              Command/Recon

K-44 Tojo (Collector)            Fighter

 

Allied

Brewster Buffalo Mk I          Fighter

P-40B Kittyhawk                   Fighter

Lysander Mk II                       Command/Recon

Blenheim Mk IV                     Light Bomber

Wellington Mk II                    Medium Bomber

C-47 Dakota (Collector)       Air Mobility/Logistics

 

Other types that may be used with a Burma map include: Hurricane IIb, P-40E. This presumes the Hurricane will already be developed. If the Hurricane has not already been developed, substitute the Hurricane for the Lysander. For play balance, the Ki-15 recce could be replaced by Ki-48 Lily (light twin bomber). But, Air Marshall mode may benefit with recce aircraft types. Importance of air mobility would be an allied strategy to consider. If need be, Japanese Sally's were also used for limited transport role. 

 

 

 

 

do you realy belive this is good and profitable place to start pacific in this game ? who would buy that, game would be dead before the ould even finish that dlc

You lose russians and west fron fans by going in Pacific after so many years and then you dont even have Zeros and cats and no carriers, good job you lost 90% of your players for nothing lol

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8 minutes ago, 77.CountZero said:

who would buy that

I would.

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IL-PTO would likely take many years to develop !??

They will probably do both ... 44/45 europe next and, but start on PTO too ... yet expecting that endevour to take a longer time to materialise.

Maybe PTO in a new-gen gaming engine ???

 

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On 8/28/2019 at 4:13 AM, EAF19_Marsh said:

Beware the Normandy trap! Been done too many times, available in DCS, aircraft set will be difficult sell to those with current products.

 

Map plus a few new aircraft for Normandy or Italy, but a whole new game on Overlord I would personally avoid.

 

In favor of Normandy:

1. Fills a timeline (early-mid 1944) that is not currently available in any part of this sims offerings.

2. Adds iconic planes like the P51B, P47C, and others.  If I was 1C making this scenario I would not do strict balance.  I would add more Allied planes and just a few German to get to 10.  Then I would throw in some existing German planes needed for the theater as a sweetener.

3. Remains contiguous with BoBP.  If you are hankering to fly an American or British career the time span covered by BoBP is not entirely satisfying.

4. I doubt that DCS is a direct competitor to 1C - i.e. I won't buy Normandy because I have DCS.  Seems to me there are areas that each does better.

 

To a great extent it depends on what you want.  I and others like me want an end to end career experience, which is why I see Normandy as a great choice.  Some want a set of smaller, self contained campaigns with no continuity that they can hop around in.  Some want as much variety as possible to jump on a dogfight server. All are perfectly reasonable ways to enjoy this game.  

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Just now, simfan2015 said:

IL-PTO would likely take many years to develop !??

They will probably do both ... 44/45 europe next and, but start on PTO too ... yet expecting that endevour to take a longer time to materialise.

Maybe PTO in a new-gen gaming engine ???

 

They just did that, so after BoM and BoK things were going bad, and then Jason took over and turn things around with good decsions, he didnt force Pto and decided to give us BoBp with all best fighters test if tanks could sell and make ww1 for VR and buy time to reserch if pto is posible, and Midway that was proposed first have atleast high chance of not waisting alot of effort on unknown airplanes and it has carriers what pto is generaly famous for, so to think something like burma and on top early war with some harder to reserch airplanes for japan side is where they could start is just fantasy. If you go for PTO it would have to be something that could have best chance of succes and thats navy stuff.

Just now, PatrickAWlson said:

 

In favor of Normandy:

1. Fills a timeline (early-mid 1944) that is not currently available in any part of this sims offerings.

2. Adds iconic planes like the P51B, P47C, and others.  If I was 1C making this scenario I would not do strict balance.  I would add more Allied planes and just a few German to get to 10.  Then I would throw in some existing German planes needed for the theater as a sweetener.

3. Remains contiguous with BoBP.  If you are hankering to fly an American or British career the time span covered by BoBP is not entirely satisfying.

4. I doubt that DCS is a direct competitor to 1C - i.e. I won't buy Normandy because I have DCS.  Seems to me there are areas that each does better.

 

To a great extent it depends on what you want.  I and others like me want an end to end career experience, which is why I see Normandy as a great choice.  Some want a set of smaller, self contained campaigns with no continuity that they can hop around in.  Some want as much variety as possible to jump on a dogfight server. All are perfectly reasonable ways to enjoy this game.  

 

It would not suprised me if it is Normandy type DLC, but i hope its PTO next

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Indeed 77.CountZero,

 

I personally don't believe PTO will ever become a part of IL-2 !?

It may become a completely seperate sim with a new engine and even payment model.

Unless we want to fly the Zeroes over Paris, Berlin and Moscow ... would make for a great SF movie though ! 🙂

 

  

 

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9 minutes ago, 77.CountZero said:

They just did that, so after BoM and BoK things were going bad, and then Jason took over and turn things around with good decsions, he didnt force Pto and decided to give us BoBp with all best fighters test if tanks could sell and make ww1 for VR and buy time to reserch if pto is posible, and Midway that was proposed first have atleast high chance of not waisting alot of effort on unknown airplanes and it has carriers what pto is generaly famous for, so to think something like burma and on top early war with some harder to reserch airplanes for japan side is where they could start is just fantasy. If you go for PTO it would have to be something that could have best chance of succes and thats navy stuff.

 

It would not suprised me if it is Normandy type DLC, but i hope its PTO next

I think Jason was in charge when BoK was in development.

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41 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

I think Jason was in charge when BoK was in development.

Only after BoK was already anounced by others and in development few months, no chance to stear the ship untill post Kuban.

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PTO would be a dream come true, but honestly I think it'll be Normandy.

It'd be cheaper and probably faster to produce and aircraft are appealing (Mosquito, P-51B, P-47 Razorback, Typhoon, G-10, Me410...).

Only downside would be the rage of PTO fans! 😁

 

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4 minutes ago, VBF-12_Pequod said:

PTO would be a dream come true, but honestly I think it'll be Normandy.

It'd be cheaper and probably faster to produce and aircraft are appealing (Mosquito, P-51B, P-47 Razorback, Typhoon, G-10, Me410...).

Only downside would be the rage of PTO fans! 😁

 

 

There is a compromise available;  invasion of Italy at Salerno 1943. 

 

Gives you all the good stuff of the desert airforce along with carrier operations and chance to introduce Italian aircraft.:biggrin:

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6 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

and chance to introduce Italian aircraft.:biggrin:

 

IMG_20190908_203027.jpg

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The 'Macchi as it is - at Stalingrad - is a little bit of a joke*.   It would be much better served up to us with it's contemporaries on an Italian map.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

* Though not as big a joke as the release date for TFS 5.0 is becoming!:salute:

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Mc 205 Veltro...if realized.....will not be a joke...really dangerous plane..

DB 605 and two 20 mm....😎

Edited by ITAF_Rani
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48 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

The 'Macchi as it is - at Stalingrad - is a little bit of a joke*.   It would be much better served up to us with it's contemporaries on an Italian map.

 

It was there during the Stalingrad campaign though. And it remained the mainstay of the Italian air force in 1943 even. So yeah MC 202 vs Spit IX, P-38, P-47 was a thing.

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11 minutes ago, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:

 

It was there during the Stalingrad campaign though. And it remained the mainstay of the Italian air force in 1943 even. So yeah MC 202 vs Spit IX, P-38, P-47 was a thing.

 

I was referring to the numbers of this aircraft deployed at Stalingrad compared to something like the IAR 80.

 

The 'Macchi would certainly be a perfect fit for the Med.:salute:  Would love to see a torpedo dropping SM79 in GBS!

Edited by DD_Arthur

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