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I've been building missions for our ongoing MP campaign lately, and I was very dissapointed to learn that there is no option to put infantry on the ground. They only come in small numbers as crew for AT guns and such. This makes it really hard to make realistic and immersive targets for ground attack aircraft, as infantry was obviously a critical part of fighting on the ground, and tanks or trucks don't really cut it.

 

Is there any plans to add infantry units to the mission editor? If not, why?

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I’ve been thinking about this too. One thing that came to my mind, when reading about Gefechtsverband Kuhlmey in Finland, is that you don’t necessarily need to see the infantry. Many times, Kuhlmey pilots would not see anything at the target area, but anyway received thanks from the Finnish troops saying the bombs dropped exactly where needed. So infantry could be simulated by having e.g. fake blocks in woods.

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Tanks and trucks don’t cut it?

That’s exactly what ground attack aircraft are targeting, that and parked aircraft, and trains, and bridges. 

 

I’m not saying that infantry wouldn’t be nice, but let’s not get silly.

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Just to see them advancing alongside your tank would add a ton of immersion.

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8 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

Tanks and trucks don’t cut it?

That’s exactly what ground attack aircraft are targeting, that and parked aircraft, and trains, and bridges. 

 

I’m not saying that infantry wouldn’t be nice, but let’s not get silly.

 

I didn't mean it this way - obviously infantry is usually a secondary target (though an entrenched position with infantry in it sounds like a good target for CAS mission). The main reason why I brought this up, is that whenever overflying a target during the strafing run, those targets seem nothing but barren, no matter how much work went into creating them. Adding large amounts of infantry would make those targets more believable. It's like when flying the A-10, you're not aiming your GBUs at infantry, but seeing a guy with an AK standing next to the radar dish as it explodes, just to see him motionless on the ground after the dust settled down makes it sooo much better.

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Even just static infantry positions with unmoving models would be good for ground attack operations IMO.

  • Upvote 1

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3 minutes ago, 4./JG26_Onebad said:

 

I didn't mean it this way - obviously infantry is usually a secondary target (though an entrenched position with infantry in it sounds like a good target for CAS mission). The main reason why I brought this up, is that whenever overflying a target during the strafing run, those targets seem nothing but barren, no matter how much work went into creating them. Adding large amounts of infantry would make those targets more believable. It's like when flying the A-10, you're not aiming your GBUs at infantry, but seeing a guy with an AK standing next to the radar dish as it explodes, just to see him motionless on the ground after the dust settled down makes it sooo much better.

 

I get where you’re coming from.

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Posted (edited)

 

Should be possible i guess.

Edited by InProgress

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I am optimistic that we will get infantry sooner or later. In dev diary 225 the new infantrymen models were shown. It shouldn't be too difficult to give them a rifle. On the screenshot some of the models are carrying combat packs, which wouldn't make much sense if the devs plan to use them only as airfield personal or vehicle and gun crews.

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38 minutes ago, InProgress said:

 

Should be possible i guess.

 

The zombie army! 😆

 

Mind you, it is VERY hard to spot infantry in a flight sim, at least from the cockpit. When they are dug in, you’ll see nothing.

 

Anyway infantry is already modelled. Strafe a train with passenger cars and you should be able to see a lot of soldiers running away.

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7 minutes ago, SYN_Vander said:

Anyway infantry is already modelled. Strafe a train with passenger cars and you should be able to see a lot of soldiers running away.

 

So they do when you strafe an AT gun, or any other object that has crew.

What I'm asking for, is infantry units (single or in let's say, squad sized units) to be available in STEditor as blocks/entities.

 

Also, it is totally possible to see men on the ground as you fly over them during strafing runs. Plenty of footage on YT where you can see dudes on the pointy end of an aircraft.

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20 minutes ago, 4./JG26_Onebad said:

 

So they do when you strafe an AT gun, or any other object that has crew.

What I'm asking for, is infantry units (single or in let's say, squad sized units) to be available in STEditor as blocks/entities.

 

Also, it is totally possible to see men on the ground as you fly over them during strafing runs. Plenty of footage on YT where you can see dudes on the pointy end of an aircraft.

 

Well I mean from a flight sim perspective. I used the RoF existing infantry models and added them to the game as static groups and moving groups (see video above). But when I was flying in my SE5a above enemy trenches trying to find where I had put them in the mission... it was pretty hard to spot them! But sure, it is definitely nice to have as objects in the ME.

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Posted (edited)
53 minutes ago, SYN_Vander said:

 

Well I mean from a flight sim perspective. I used the RoF existing infantry models and added them to the game as static groups and moving groups (see video above). But when I was flying in my SE5a above enemy trenches trying to find where I had put them in the mission... it was pretty hard to spot them! But sure, it is definitely nice to have as objects in the ME.

It means camouflage works 😜

 

 

 

Edited by InProgress

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I would love having the infantry that Vander did for Rof.

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14 hours ago, SYN_Vander said:

 

Well I mean from a flight sim perspective. I used the RoF existing infantry models and added them to the game as static groups and moving groups (see video above). But when I was flying in my SE5a above enemy trenches trying to find where I had put them in the mission... it was pretty hard to spot them! But sure, it is definitely nice to have as objects in the ME.

 

I think the main issue is the number of infantry needed to actually be visible and to make a difference to the gameplay. I loved your infantry squads that you did for RoF, but I think they need to be scaled up. Instead of 4 soldiers per AI object, it should be more like 40. That way, you could have 400 soldiers with only 10 AI objects, which might actually be visible from the aircraft at low altitudes..

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Posted (edited)
On 8/21/2019 at 9:22 AM, Flashy said:

I think the main issue is the number of infantry needed to actually be visible and to make a difference to the gameplay. I loved your infantry squads that you did for RoF, but I think they need to be scaled up. Instead of 4 soldiers per AI object, it should be more like 40. That way, you could have 400 soldiers with only 10 AI objects, which might actually be visible from the aircraft at low altitudes..

Not really. I don't really see why would they bunch up when there is plane flying on high alt so it can spot them. They would just run away, not march in group of 400 so you can strife them. I don't even find them hard to spot, when you attack train and climb up, it's easy to see little guys running away. From high alt it's hard to spot tank, of course you won't spot one guy running around and 40 in a group would be huge immersion kill since in real life they would never walk like this. This could only work in ww1 expansion when they are ordered to attack enemy trenches and you just happen to fly around. But in ww2? Nope.

 

Infantry in ww2 should be more static just to make battles feel more real. There should be trench and foxhole filled with static infantry (as it was in IL2 1946). I think it was in some mod tho. But just having infantry that can sit in trench or behind some objects like sandbags would make this game better and probably still keep good FPS (400 people running in ww2 with tons of other objects could be bad, but who knows?).

 

Maybe they should do it slowly, first they could add more "runners" when you attack trucks they could jump out and run away, just like with some trains. Now there is just 1 or 2 guys running from truck, they are never filled with troops. So it would be good start. Then adding things like foxholes, trenches, sandbags etc. Where you have few people sitting in there, not moving, just a static object. And if you hit it with guns, they just change animation to dead, head down, fall, something like that. Hit with bomb? They would just disappear.

 

I think they will have to do it one day, can't imagine okinawa expansion or some other pacific islands with no infantry on them. It feels bad in stalingrad already. Dead city, not even wrecked ships and trash of some sort near the river where russians were crossing all the time.

Edited by InProgress

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Posted (edited)
On ‎8‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 6:13 PM, Juri_JS said:

It shouldn't be too difficult to give them a rifle

Agreed. Static infantry (sitting or lying with AT-rifles, AT-grenades, bazokas or Panzerschrecks) - that's would be enough for now for more realistic ground battles (Tank Crew).

Btw, we have now Schurzen for german tanks - these shields, as I know, were used to protect tanks against AT-rifles. Now they don't have much sense..

 

Something like that:

ptrd.jpg.7fffbff1cdf4e390844e96b4063b2b0c.jpg

 

Edited by Lofte

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53 minutes ago, InProgress said:

. It feels bad in stalingrad already

It feels bad everywhere, when you don't even see that you are crossing the frontline. Desastersoft developed that for their last two Addons for 1946, always just the same piece of trench, put together, so they had a complete line. But it was soo much better, to see now, here is the frontline.

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Celtarcs use a trick which i use too which is fine. I put german MG in front of russian mg and use an attack area. These unit fire in front of the oposite unit which simulate the front line. 

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I think that for infantry to work in this game, the  game engine needs new run-time routine because as we know placing to many AI objects can make any mission unplayable do to frame rates drop. I don't like idea of block and all units in the group behaved as one - moving always in one direction, global destruction etc...

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On 8/22/2019 at 4:05 PM, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

I think that for infantry to work in this game, the  game engine needs new run-time routine because as we know placing to many AI objects can make any mission unplayable do to frame rates drop. I don't like idea of block and all units in the group behaved as one - moving always in one direction, global destruction etc...

 

So many cores are unused at the moment on the CPU by the game. If it would have used all the available cores (six or eight) we would have no frame drop at all.

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Maybe a map object like Stalingrad itself which when placed explodes grenades, exchanges MG tracers across its line, pops rifle flashes and smoke, fires mortars, including illumination and smoke depending on time of day.  All cosmetic just like Stalingrad, no damage models or tracking needed, so fewer resources needed.  Than you could have a reasonably large show fight going on and still place a small active target or attacking objective group within it.

Edited by [CPT]Crunch

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I can already apply those things easily enough. I made a random shelling generator which I can place anywhere I want shells exploding. Not to mention the tracer truck that Habu mentioned.

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