Jump to content
mazex

Realistic spotting

Recommended Posts

I agree that this game feels like there’s something wrong with spotting aircraft, specially if you use default video settings.

 

I though that I had a problem with my monitor, because that thing of loosing the vis from an enemy plane while chasing and looking at it also happened to me.

 

So this is the first game I had to go online to search better ways to see the enemy by editing video files.

 

Then I discovered that a lot of other people have the same problem and after I edited the gamma to 0.5 and set the ground blur and objects sharp, it got better. It still a problem over forests.

 

I have flow plenty of other sims:

 

  • Combat flight simulator 1,2,3
  • Warbirds
  • IL-1946
  • World War 2 Online
  • Rise of Flight
  • Cliffs of Dover
  • Now IL-2 Great battles

 

This is the only one I got to lost the vis from a contact while looking at him and diving to attack.

 

I know that people that are defending BoS spotting are saying that it’s also hard to see a plane in real life. But a game is just a combination of collored pixels moving. If those pixels have the same color the plane actually disappear.

 

I'm glad they will increase the view range and I hope they improve the airplane x ground contrast/blend.

  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SharpeXB said:

Why do you think these aircraft had camouflage painted on them?

Not trying to poke you in the eye here, SharpXB. But actually I believe most of the camo at the time, had more to do with hiding the planes on the ground from being destroyed, than blending in with forests while in flight. But your point is taken. And I do hope someday we get actual HDR rendering. Cheers

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

Seriously, 5 pages???  Putting halos or small v icons around aircraft is  just taking us into arcade territory. Just fly on servers with Icons on, or pop over to here

 

 As pointed out already, the Devs are revamping spotting/draw distance. Small, fast moving aircraft painted in camouflage, flying over trees are supposed to be hard to spot.

 

I guess it kind of works for very large aircraft too?

  camouflage-aircraft.jpg.d9fe514bea8d8850ba672bc4ef37562d.jpg

 

 

Edit: Lets put a little distance between us. The shadow stands out because of the direction of the light but I'm having trouble spotting those wings.

 

camouflage-aircraft1.jpg.4873de232538ffc9013ca14bd4665385.jpg

Nah mate, that just looks like a glitch in the Matrix.

 

People comparing Il2 BoX with Rise of Flight must take into account 3 things.

 

1. Closing rate of aircraft in Il2 is 3x that of Rise of flight / WW1 crates.  The combat distances as a result are tighter too.

 

2. WW1 crates didn't do camouflage like WW2 and were cuter.

 

3. Rise of Flight was released how long ago?  Yes, same original engine but Il2 has had that engine changed greatly to give us better lighting, textures, 3D model details and so.  Do people whinge to John Carmak that Doom 2016 or the up coming version doesn't look like the original Doom and that monsters are hard to spot?  I mean, are they not the same game engine Id Tech??

 

Talking of which, to further make Il2 more accessible, we need floating balls for Health, Ammo, Fuel, Rampage timers oh and can we have Season Passes, Micro Transactions and Loot Boxes as well please???

 

Oh wait - there is a reason Il2 BoX is my go to computer entertainment.🤣

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SYN_Mugue said:

 I believe most of the camo at the time, had more to do with hiding the planes on the ground from being destroyed, than blending in with forests while in flight. 

Either way it works. US Navy planes were painted Blue. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, blitze said:

Talking of which, to further make Il2 more accessible, we need floating balls for Health, Ammo, Fuel, Rampage timers oh and can we have Season Passes, Micro Transactions and Loot Boxes as well please???

 

Just to be pedantic but there was once a time when mods and skins in this game had to be grinded out with XP unlocks. 😅

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't like the idea of having icons or circles neither, but the game could improve the blend between plane and ground. It just blends too much, to the points that the pixels are the same color and the plane actually disappear. (at least in default settings).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a huge problem too, But I would say let's wait until the distance improvement comes up. Maybe most of this problem will be more less eaningful in comparson

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I am not a pilot in real life (would be a dream though) and therefore I cannot judge, if spotting is easier in the real world. And there

are plenty of lucky guys here, who actually are pilots in real life - some of them say, it is easier to spot planes in real life, while others

think it is more easier in this simulation.

 

With my rig and my monitor (27" at 1920 x 1080) I'm not always able to spot planes just in time, but I get used to it, even with my glasses

and at my age (55). And I never flew with icons on since day one, which helped a lot, although frustration was great at the beginning and

especially in MP. But finally, I got used to it and I usually spot enemies before I see some tracers flying towards me and thanks god, I

rarely shoot on friendlies.

 

So, all of you, forget about the icons or any other helpers - there is only one solution to it: Practice, practice and practice again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

S!

 

 While spotting can be hard in RL this is still a game. It does not need to artificially be harder than RL to be "realistic". It has to be playable without being arcade. At the moment planes just disappear in plain sight because of whatever reason. It is frustrating and annoying. Add the cloud issue and all is close to a joke really. I do not see this same phenomenon in other games I play, only in GB. Really waiting for the next gen visibility update and hoping it will improve things. GB deserves that.

  • Upvote 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

 

Lol - that real image looks more like what I am talking about regarding camouflaged aircraft over a forest that will not blend in with a hard reflective surface that will never blend into the leaves below (even though it is matte). But this is on the extreme of being very easy to spot - especially in comparison to the fake edited version posted earlier ;) 

 

c-141-16.jpg

Edited by mazex

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

Why use fake pictures to make a point,

I didn't know it was fake as it was taken from wordpress. 

However, I stand by my point. Small fast moving aircraft flying at low level are not supposed to be easy to see.

 

bf109.jpg.56083414fd230bc26b383fda3677761b.jpg

 

 

bf109_1png.png.20b9107dc2c06cdc3cdb729f69568027.png

 

204463317_http___o.aolcdn.com_hss_storage_midas_37f2aac140f6d52510277956129cbc40_203601994_160325_business_insider_camo_jets13(1).thumb.jpg.cd8053bc2c55419efffb0ac514ab66e6.jpg

 

camo.jpg.73cbf0505f8ed7dbf21025a1d9a7ebef.jpg

 

camoac.jpg.63c11951c8a049bac425f6320d71cd67.jpg

 

If folks are using a lower resolution or VR they are going to have a harder time spotting aircraft.

 

Edit: There is a very decent Icon mod in the mods section that maybe of use to those who want less intrusive icons which I have linked already in the tread.

 

 

Edited by 6./ZG26_Custard

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

 

Edit: There is a very decent Icon mod in the mods section that maybe of use to those who want less intrusive icons which I have linked already in the tread.

 

 

Thanks, have not used any mods yet for BoX but that seems like an OK alternative for offline if we cannot get some contrast enhancements or official settings for "minimized bare minimum icons" to make me happier, getting some more cues to find those aircraft that disappear to easily in my opinion, compared to reality.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Icons are a funny thing. Most every other game type doesn’t put flags or icons on your opponents for really obvious reasons. Only flight sims do that. And yet other games like the aforementioned Battlefield V have visibility challenges. But they don’t just give your opponents away with tags. That would be ridiculous. Somehow that’s accepted in this genre. Other games like FPS and especially sim shooters feature distant hard to see adversaries and don’t resort to icons. This is just a legacy feature in flight sims which honestly seems to be dying out, the vast majority appear not to use them. 

While people keep complaining about visibility, in reality this game is no worse than some others. Players have just been coddled over the years by this feature. 

Since a simulation is supposed to portray reality, icons really don’t belong in it. There’s no such thing as a “realistic icon”.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Icons are a funny thing. Most every other game type doesn’t put flags or icons on your opponents for really obvious reasons. Only flight sims do that. And yet other games like the aforementioned Battlefield V have visibility challenges. But they don’t just give your opponents away with tags. That would be ridiculous. Somehow that’s accepted in this genre. Other games like FPS and especially sim shooters feature distant hard to see adversaries and don’t resort to icons. This is just a legacy feature in flight sims which honestly seems to be dying out, the vast majority appear not to use them. 

While people keep complaining about visibility, in reality this game is no worse than some others. Players have just been coddled over the years by this feature. 

Since a simulation is supposed to portray reality, icons really don’t belong in it. There’s no such thing as a “realistic icon”.

 

I think that you just need to understand that people that are tired of trying to find the 30 pixels that is supposed to be a Spitfire 500 meters away are not "loosers that should go fly WT". Maybe it's easier for us that fly IRL to accept that this actually is a game and we want to have FUN playing it... If we want to see what it really looks like we go fly for real instead.  Accept that we don't get to fly a realistically modelled Spitfire or Messerschmitt in 1944 like those Biggles books we all read as 13 year olds ;)

 

I just upgraded my Vive to an Index and the spotting is at least easier with that. Just love VR as it feels soo much more like you are flying a real plane instead of staring at small pixels on a flat screen.

 

EDIT: And no, I don't like icons either. But if adjusting contrast so that we can find the enemy at realistic distances is not done, what else to do? I already know your answer - go play WT with the kids :) But I'm a 48 year old aircraft nerd that don't understand their lingo... And I just hate a simulation that is not flying like a real plane - and BoX is the only prop sim that actually nails that! It does so much right that I think that this is my only gripe with BoX. And I fully understand that there is no quick fix for it as a Spitfire at 500 meters will still be 30 pixels whatever is changed to make it easier to spot and identify it.

Edited by mazex
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, mazex said:

you just need to understand that people that are tired of trying to find the 30 pixels that is supposed to be a Spitfire 500 meters away 

What about a distant sniper in an FPS game? Those games don’t put icons over them. 

3 hours ago, mazex said:

Maybe it's easier for us that fly IRL to accept that this actually is a game and we want to have FUN playing it... 

Sure it’s fun. And this game has all the arcade game type features for those that prefer that. Mouse control, chase camera, icons aiming assist etc. 

But icons are a chief spoiler of realism in the air combat. Look at Boelcke’s first rule. Surprise the enemy. Any attack in any form or war is intended as a surprise. But you can’t surprise and enemy with a big red flag over your head. 

3 hours ago, mazex said:

But if adjusting contrast so that we can find the enemy at realistic distances is not done, what else to do? 

There’s plenty you can do. And it’s nothing to do with contrast adjustments. 95% of the people you see playing online aren’t using icons. In the end that’s the way it will handicap you in this sim, it prohibits you from participating in multiplayer if that’s a goal. 

It’s become a crutch that some people expect in this genre but if you look at other games, none use icons as extensively and they are all games played on computer screens with difficult to see opponents. 

3 hours ago, mazex said:

And I fully understand that there is no quick fix for it as a Spitfire at 500 meters will still be 30 pixels whatever is changed to make it easier to spot and identify it.

A Spitfire 500 meters away is half the size of your gunsight reticle. That’s hardly invisible. You don’t need icons to see something like that. 

 

The point is this sim doesn’t have visibility problems worse than any other game. Except that it could be running HDR

All PC games have this issue and IL-2 is actually pretty good by comparison. 

Edited by SharpeXB
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've never had a distant sniper IRL disappear in front of my eyes after I've located him.

 

If you take your eyes off, trying to reacquire him is one thing, and you may not; but if you keep eyes on, that's a different story.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, hrafnkolbrandr said:

I've never had a distant sniper IRL disappear in front of my eyes after I've located him.

 

If you take your eyes off, trying to reacquire him is one thing, and you may not; but if you keep eyes on, that's a different story.

I’ve never seen that happen in any flight sim. A target aircraft vanish while you actually have eyes on it? Are you sure you’re not seeing a connection error or something in mp?

Post a track and your graphic settings and hardware to the technical section. That doesn’t sound like simple graphics. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

 

A Spitfire 500 meters away is half the size of your gunsight reticle. That’s hardly invisible. You don’t need icons to see something like that. 

 

 

I was about to repost the "forest merged" LA from 230 meters but realized what I said one page back, that this thread is "done" and we are going in circles. All arguments have already been reposted at least 5 times...

 

So let's stop here and move on to talk about if we might get the Spitfire MK XIV as a premium or something similar ;) 

Edited by mazex
  • Haha 3
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hate to repeat myself, but simply increasing the contrast of plane and it's background will  solve this issue and be the most accurate simulation of real world visibility. This can be achieved by programming to enhance the colour contrast of plane against background, wether developing this with HDR or not. 

Now everything are coulourwise and contrastwise too same and bland compared to real world.

Edited by LLv44_Damixu
  • Like 1
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a little something I picked up from a helpful user on the Pimax 8K forums for Nvidia users.

 

https://forum.pimaxvr.com/t/new-pitool-1-0-1-180-is-available-now-from-pimax/21281/494

 neal_white_iii's post towards the end but screen shot is my implementation of the settings.

 

Anyway the 2 things that have helped me recently has been

Antialiasing - Transparency                          x8 (supersample) and

Texture filtering - Negative LOD Bias          Clamp

 

See how that helps....

 

image.thumb.png.099bb860fb5ccec6b40ebcb71d5a415c.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, LLv44_Damixu said:

I hate to repeat myself, but simply increasing the contrast of plane and it's background will  solve this issue and be the most accurate simulation of real world visibility.

Don’t know how that would be accomplished given that the aircraft are all different color schemes. As well as all the terrain. Creating artificial contrast could just end up making the aircraft harder to see under different circumstances. 

 

Much of this problem lies with players themselves so it’s not something the Devs should spin their wheels on. Better rendering and color is always good but none of these artificial effects.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, LLv44_Damixu said:

I hate to repeat myself, but simply increasing the contrast of plane and it's background will  solve this issue and be the most accurate simulation of real world visibility. This can be achieved by programming to enhance the colour contrast of plane against background, wether developing this with HDR or not. 

Now everything are coulourwise and contrastwise too same and bland compared to real world.

This is what War thunder does and it makes the game look like a cartoon IMO. Also makes identifying planes 100x harder.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/3/2019 at 6:04 PM, SharpeXB said:

Fixed that for you. Games can do artificial enhancement stuff like that but sims should not. 

That’s why they say “lose sight lose the fight” because that can actually happen. Why do you think these aircraft had camouflage painted on them?

But that´s the thing, is it realistic as it is now?

Mazex and others, me included, rather doubt it.

 

11 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

I’ve never seen that happen in any flight sim. A target aircraft vanish while you actually have eyes on it? Are you sure you’re not seeing a connection error or something in mp?

Post a track and your graphic settings and hardware to the technical section. That doesn’t sound like simple graphics. 

AFAIK this is the premise of the whole thread, that this actually happens!

We are talking about already aquired planes vanishing over woods, while we have eyes on.

 

This is more the exception than the rule, and I am using a 1440p monitor.

Yes, the added resolution helped somewhat, but it didn´t get rid of the problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, So_ein_Feuerball said:

But that´s the thing, is it realistic as it is now?

Define “realistic” as seen on a PC screen. Most people’s definition of “realistic” is comparing this to other games. This sim isn’t any less realistic than any other game’s graphics on a computer screen. I know we all want to think this is a real as we can get but it’s still a computer game. Deal with it. 

13 minutes ago, So_ein_Feuerball said:

We are talking about already aquired planes vanishing over woods, while we have eyes on.

Player skill is part of the equation. Maybe work on that part. I’ve never lost targets like that. I lose them all the time when line of sight gets broken but not once I’ve kept a view them. Are you sure what’s happening is what you think it is? Did the target really blink out of existence while you were looking at it? Or did you lose sight behind a canopy frame etc. Cause that will be enough sometimes. Do you have 6DOF head tracking?  It’s not easy to follow targets but that’s part of the game. Icons, Wonder Woman view and padlock features have convinced players over the years that it’s supposed to be easy or automatic. Flight sim games give players too much aid with this that they can’t cope when it’s not there. 

Edited by SharpeXB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Clamping LOD helped a lot, that and transparency AA.

 

At 2000m flying escort of Il2's at less than 500m in Winter I could for once make out their camo with the green around the cockpit and white else where.  White 109's were clearly more discernible.

 

Tested on Moscow Autumn flying Il2's, Arty Strike, objects on the ground easier to make out and again, intercepting 109's and our Cover flight were easier to make out.

 

As for realism, I remember a time on a smaller monitor trying to shoot with either a Mosin Nagant 1907 or a Kar 98, pending on what side I was on, lying on rubble behind some cover and patiently awaiting enemy troops to show their little dot heads whilst trying to head shoot them.  There were no visual aids there or pointers. 

 

Kill enough of them and try to crawl backwards and then relocate so I have a chance to do it all again without the opposition cuing to my where abouts.

 

Fun times, must revisit and see how RO2 is getting on.  I believe it still has a reasonable online following.

 

Haloing threats or making thinks look less than they are are not the answer.  Better fidelity with software and hardware development will help but it will never be enough for some.  We are entering interesting times though on both those fronts now and into the near future.  Cough decent VR, Cough. 👍

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SharpeXB said:

Define “realistic” as seen on a PC screen. Most people’s definition of “realistic” is comparing this to other games. This sim isn’t any less realistic than any other game’s graphics on a computer screen. I know we all want to think this is a real as we can get but it’s still a computer game. Deal with it. 

Player skill is part of the equation. Maybe work on that part. I’ve never lost targets like that. I lose them all the time when line of sight gets broken but not once I’ve kept a view them. Are you sure what’s happening is what you think it is? Did the target really blink out of existence while you were looking at it? Or did you lose sight behind a canopy frame etc. Cause that will be enough sometimes. Do you have 6DOF head tracking?  It’s not easy to follow targets but that’s part of the game. Icons, Wonder Woman view and padlock features have convinced players over the years that it’s supposed to be easy or automatic. Flight sim games give players too much aid with this that they can’t cope when it’s not there. 

 

I´m fortunate enough to be able to afford a 1440p screen, and trackIR.

I am quite sure of what I saw on multiple occasions, whenever a plane I am tracking is over the woods,

while I have eyes on, with it being close enough for me to easily identify it, it gets blurry to the point of no longer being visible.

This only happens in this game, I´ve never had any similar issue with this in War Thunder SB or DCS, in both cases with icons off.

 

It´s always the same, I´m quite near a plane, I identify it and the moment it flies over the woods it blurs and perfectly blends into the background.

Whenever this happens, I need to wait to reaquire the plane, either because they roll over and expose their belly, they leave the wooded area or they start shooting for some reason. 

I am quite sure this is not how camoflague of WW2 planes worked.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, So_ein_Feuerball said:

 

I am quite sure of what I saw on multiple occasions, whenever a plane I am tracking is over the woods,

while I have eyes on, with it being close enough for me to easily identify it, it gets blurry to the point of no longer being visible.

This only happens in this game, I´ve never had any similar issue with this in War Thunder SB or DCS, in both cases with icons off.

I’ve seen targets become more difficult to see but not vanish. And IMO this game is probably better than DCS under certain scenarios. WT is apparently artificially enhanced. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But that´s the thing, which one of their approaches results in the more realistic picture?

As in, would it be probable for a plane to seemingly vanish into the background after it had been already aquired?

I rather doubt it. I know that IRL there´s no sharpening or any other form of image enhancement, but in the end,

it´s not as if planes blur to the point of being practically invisible IRL either.

 

So IMO it´s no matter how the result is achieved, as long as the end result is as close to realism as possible.

 

 

Edited by So_ein_Feuerball
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, So_ein_Feuerball said:

But that´s the thing, which one of their approaches results in the more realistic picture?

Who knows? There is no video display technology that can show you a fully lifelike image. People in every flight sim make the same comment. This and DCS. Somebody above says WT looks like a cartoon. 

There is a limit to how many colors a display can create. 16.7 million unless you go to the expanded color gamut in HDR.

Edited by SharpeXB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, So_ein_Feuerball said:

But that´s the thing, which one of their approaches results in the more realistic picture?

As in, would it be probable for a plane to seemingly vanish into the background after it had been already aquired?

I rather doubt it. I know that IRL there´s no sharpening or any other form of image enhancement, but in the end,

it´s not as if planes blur to the point of being practically invisible IRL either.

 

So IMO it´s no matter how the result is achieved, as long as the end result is as close to realism as possible.

 

 

Feuerball - you are using a monitor with TrackIR, could it be that you are more so having issues with the narrow FOV at reasonable scale of your monitor than actual the game's ability to reasonably convey at proper 1 to 1 scaling over a reasonable FOV?

 

I don't know the size of your monitor but being 1440p it would be either 27" or 32" as they seem to be the more common sizes on market.  Using the Zoom function in game (which is actually just trying to get you in to a narrow FOV but more real scale trade off of monitors), can you spot and Id an enemy aircraft at 500m?

 

Now pull back to normal in game FOV for monitors or even further widen the FOV out (but at the expense of scale).  How do those aircraft at 500m look now?

 

What you are experiencing is more a limitation of what can be displayed on a 16:9 aspect ratio screen at limited sizes.  21:9 is an improvement - going wide screen but you still want it 34" or larger and then there is VR but although image clarity is improving, most are still quite limited in their FOV.

 

Until we get VR with decent FOV and image clarity (we are close actually), we will be suffering limitations of playing or flying a simulation on current display technology.  chiliwili69 has some through the lens shots of the 2 main new headsets but they still don't do justice to wearing the things and seeing Il2 at 1 to 1 scale even if the FOV is limited between 100 to 130 degrees.

 

 

For normal "zoom" FOV on a monitor, you need to be using a 50" tv to get similar scaling at 1 to 1.5 meters out.  Anything less would be considered limiting to the player but that is not the fault of the program.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just recently spent a few weeks in War Thunder, as one of my friends wanted me to play with them.  I'm not sure what that person meant when they said the planes look like a cartoon; and I suspect most of these people don't even play the game anyways.  Obviously, it isn't going to look as good as IL-2.  They are different games, with rather different purposes.  Anyhow, visibility in War Thunder's simulation mode is basically like this:  At far visibility, when an aircraft first becomes visible, it is a speck.  Multiple aircraft might merge into one speck, depending on orientation or distance from each other.  Bomber formations are clusters of specks, and easily visible.  Once you get closer, these specks become tiny silhouettes.  These get bigger as you approach.  At silhouette stage you can identify the basic type of aircraft.  In some matchups, depending on profile, you can begin to discern a 109 from say, a russian aircraft.  Once you get to close range, within about a kilometer or two (hard to say), you begin to be able to identify the type of aircraft.  They are not enhanced such that they can't be lost.  If you take eyes off, their camouflage can easily make you lose them over the ground.  However, they are much easier to identify if you do see them.  Several times, circling above a dogfight, I have been able to make out the roundels on the wings of the aircraft below.  This is all at 4k, of course.

I'm not sure where the cartoon aspect comes in, although I would guess it is at the speck/silhouette stage?  That or at very close range?  But either way, I don't think it is that the aircraft by themselves look like a cartoon; I think that this is just the overall graphical milieu of the game.  Everything looks that way, whereas, IL-2 is more "crisp" in general.

To be clear, I'm not saying IL-2 should do anything that War Thunder does; In particular, I do think the silhouette stage is pretty atrocious, because the silhouette is always black, rather than the color of the aircraft; but at close range, which is what this thread is about- the aircraft go to their actual camouflage colors, and the renderings don't appear to be significantly enhanced, at all really.  I'd be curious to know what they do, or if what they do just isn't as noticeable as such due to the graphical milieu of the environments on their maps.

Edited by hrafnkolbrandr
  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/3/2019 at 11:55 PM, mazex said:

 

Lol - that real image looks more like what I am talking about regarding camouflaged aircraft over a forest that will not blend in with a hard reflective surface that will never blend into the leaves below (even though it is matte). But this is on the extreme of being very easy to spot - especially in comparison to the fake edited version posted earlier ;) 

 

c-141-16.jpg

 

Ahhh memories!!! When I was a kid C-141s in their Euro 1 camo just like this one would fly over my house all day long in long trains at short intervals from Norton AFB. I have their sound forever ringing in my head. Good times.

 

Jason

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Jason_Williams said:

 

Ahhh memories!!! When I was a kid C-141s in their Euro 1 camo just like this one would fly over my house all day long in long trains at short intervals from Norton AFB. I have their sound forever ringing in my head. Good times.

 

Jason

When I was a kid, I loaded and crewed them for a living.  Many memories of Norton, when I arrived at McCord the runway was closed for rebuild, got put on a C-130 and off to Norton via taxiway, all our planes were there as a composite wing.  Best nacho's in the entire force were at that pax terminal. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, hrafnkolbrandr said:

I just recently spent a few weeks in War Thunder, as one of my friends wanted me to play with them.  I'm not sure what that person meant when they said the planes look like a cartoon; and I suspect most of these people don't even play the game anyways.  Obviously, it isn't going to look as good as IL-2.  They are different games, with rather different purposes.  Anyhow, visibility in War Thunder's simulation mode is basically like this:  At far visibility, when an aircraft first becomes visible, it is a speck.  Multiple aircraft might merge into one speck, depending on orientation or distance from each other.  Bomber formations are clusters of specks, and easily visible.  Once you get closer, these specks become tiny silhouettes.  These get bigger as you approach.  At silhouette stage you can identify the basic type of aircraft.  In some matchups, depending on profile, you can begin to discern a 109 from say, a russian aircraft.  Once you get to close range, within about a kilometer or two (hard to say), you begin to be able to identify the type of aircraft.  They are not enhanced such that they can't be lost.  If you take eyes off, their camouflage can easily make you lose them over the ground.  However, they are much easier to identify if you do see them.  Several times, circling above a dogfight, I have been able to make out the roundels on the wings of the aircraft below.  This is all at 4k, of course.

I'm not sure where the cartoon aspect comes in, although I would guess it is at the speck/silhouette stage?  That or at very close range?  But either way, I don't think it is that the aircraft by themselves look like a cartoon; I think that this is just the overall graphical milieu of the game.  Everything looks that way, whereas, IL-2 is more "crisp" in general.

To be clear, I'm not saying IL-2 should do anything that War Thunder does; In particular, I do think the silhouette stage is pretty atrocious, because the silhouette is always black, rather than the color of the aircraft; but at close range, which is what this thread is about- the aircraft go to their actual camouflage colors, and the renderings don't appear to be significantly enhanced, at all really.  I'd be curious to know what they do, or if what they do just isn't as noticeable as such due to the graphical milieu of the environments on their maps.

I played enough of war thunder to know the spotting in that games atrocious, and even in sim battle icons still pop up at close range so you might actually be able to tell what you are shooting at. When the planes in easy to see sprite mode it's almost completely impossible to tell what it is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Icons show up on friendlies; denoting player name in the case of friendly players, and a tiny blue dot over friendly AI; and those only within a few hundred meters.

 

Icons do not show up on adversaries.  Player or AI.  It sounds like you either haven't played in a very long time, or were actually playing "realistic" battles.

 

I've had no issue identifying whatever enemy aircraft I've run into, though that might be due to playing in 4k.

Edited by hrafnkolbrandr

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, hrafnkolbrandr said:

Icons show up on friendlies; denoting player name in the case of friendly players, and a tiny blue dot over friendly AI; and those only within a few hundred meters.

 

Icons do not show up on adversaries.  Player or AI.  It sounds like you either haven't played in a very long time, or were actually playing "realistic" battles.

 

I've had no issue identifying whatever enemy aircraft I've run into, though that might be due to playing in 4k.

Is three months ago a "very long time", never touched realistic battles once. 🙄

Steam 9_6_2019 7_21_56 AM.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, hrafnkolbrandr said:

In that case I don't know what your issue might be.  Either way, I've described exactly how spotting works in WT's simulator.

I told you my case spotting in war thunder is garbage. You seem to think it's great. Not a whole lot to argue about there. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...