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Realistic spotting

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3 hours ago, DD_Crash said:

I think its his main hobby.

Everyone gets an opinion. I would prefer that game altering changes like halos and enhancing effects aren’t added because VR players can’t see the other aircraft. 

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3 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Everyone gets an opinion. I would prefer that game altering changes like halos and enhancing effects aren’t added because VR players can’t see the other aircraft. 

 

As a VR player I'm actually against halos, as I said in my earlier post, spotting is hard IRL regardless -- the markers ARE the visual aid. If a server plays without them, that's fine too.

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VR or not, spotting as it is keeps people from the sim.  I know I don't visit multiplayer much at all anymore, certainly not like I did back in the original IL2, where I was on almost every night.  Why?  I can't spot aircraft well at all, until it's too late.  Even ground attack is so difficult due to poor spotting that it makes that a very unfun option, and I love ground pounding...

 

I was never a great 1 vs. 1 fighter pilot, but I had my moments, but in the current multiplayer environment I'm just cannon fodder with no hope of survival, so I play offline and turn on the icons without embarrassment, because I can't see shit in this game.  Not tried VR, no one close to me has a set, but if it's anything like any other stereoscopic visual device it won't work for me because of a congenital eye condition I have (weak left eye).  So I need a monitor set up, and spotting that works well on a monitor.

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The solution for this is simply better quality and higher resolution displays, both HMDs and monitors. Some of that tech already exists like HDR, it just hasn’t been implemented yet in this game. Color depth and contrast are the most important features. That’s already possible with HDR. 

I’m not sure how difficult that is to implement in a game but it’s the best cure for this issue. 

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My eyesight is now not very good. It WAS good when I was in my 20s and as we are pretending to be pilots in our 20s I dont have a problem with icons on, and I think it would be very hard to replicate good eysight. I like the idea of icons set by server like it was with 1946 and there is a mod which does that but idealy it should be in the game.

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Posted (edited)

icons now in game are just to agresive

this is just enought, small mark, no ned for rest, atleast for start if full options like 3Dmigoto has is to mutch work to add to game

icon_reduced.jpg

Edited by 77.CountZero

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Posted (edited)

Icons in any form, even small ones, make aircraft too visible and destroy any realism in the action.

 

Any type of custom icon could never be very useful online because this game is played on so few servers. Mostly just a single one. And that server doesn’t use icons. Trying to implement that sort of customization would just split up players onto tiny servers with a few players each or not get used at all. 

 

Your best solution in this game if you want to play online at all is to switch off icons and never use them. Hardly any server in any flight sim ever uses them.  

 

Using icons just spoils your ability to actually spot other targets. 

Edited by SharpeXB
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in il-2 1946, there was 2-3 servers with big number of players using icons ( that you could modifie , frend or enemy side to be displayed how ever you wont as server host, alot squads used them ).

even in clod where you have same options to costumise icons like il-2 1946 there was ppl playng online with them in big number ( for that game ).

but i belive now most of them just play WT, or SP.

 

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28 minutes ago, 77.CountZero said:

in il-2 1946, there was 2-3 servers with big number of players using icons ( that you could modifie , frend or enemy side to be displayed how ever you wont as server host, alot squads used them ).

even in clod where you have same options to costumise icons like il-2 1946 there was ppl playng online with them in big number ( for that game ).

but i belive now most of them just play WT, or SP.

 

Yes things have changed. The type of player today that wants icons is playing WT

There is hardly anyone using them here. 

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Icons and the techchat really ruin immersion and the point of a flight Sim in general. If you need the icons to spot anything you should really work on your spotting skills. I have never used the icons and have no trouble spotting aircraft at all. 

 

Using the techchat is one of the biggest cheats around and defeats the whole purpose of learning to actually fly an aircraft. 

 

With the 10km spotting bubble being increased to 100km this will fix a lot of the problems people are finding in game, especially for the bomber boys. 

 

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3 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

VR or not, spotting as it is keeps people from the sim.  I know I don't visit multiplayer much at all anymore, certainly not like I did back in the original IL2, where I was on almost every night.  Why?  I can't spot aircraft well at all, until it's too late.  Even ground attack is so difficult due to poor spotting that it makes that a very unfun option, and I love ground pounding...

 

I was never a great 1 vs. 1 fighter pilot, but I had my moments, but in the current multiplayer environment I'm just cannon fodder with no hope of survival, so I play offline and turn on the icons without embarrassment, because I can't see shit in this game.  Not tried VR, no one close to me has a set, but if it's anything like any other stereoscopic visual device it won't work for me because of a congenital eye condition I have (weak left eye).  So I need a monitor set up, and spotting that works well on a monitor.

That's strange, I find spotting in 1946 100x harder than this game. Ground targets forget about it. Can't even see them.

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I hold my spotting breath until the next big update / release where I know things will change for us.  That and a system build with a little more capability in general.

 

For me it is visual fidelity as I can run reasonably well for spotting things but harder to make out what I am looking at at the resolutions I need for stable play.  With the update and stability using some new technologies, I believe I will have both spotting and fidelity in VR.  I already have but with a 50% Il2.exe will hang and require being closed down.

 

Anyway - not a few years away but this year with current hardware.  It is just a matter of software implementation being stable with the mix of software tech needed.

 

Don't want icons and don't want halo's or any other non realistic aid.  Lighting cues and HDR would be nice as long as accurate to real world.  Remember, most pilots shot down didn't see the guy doing it.

 

As for why VR - well, cheaper to implement than a large multi monitor setup and also I like the visual depth it brings as well as scale.

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6 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Everyone gets an opinion. I would prefer that game altering changes like halos and enhancing effects aren’t added because VR players can’t see the other aircraft. 


Unless I missed it, the halo solution had nothing to do with VR. In fact, I find spotting in VR to be easier than on a monitor. 
 

I’m not a fan of labels either, but people are discussion solutions for monitor users and VR fliers alike.

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26 minutes ago, Go_Pre said:


Unless I missed it, the halo solution had nothing to do with VR. In fact, I find spotting in VR to be easier than on a monitor. 
 

I’m not a fan of labels either, but people are discussion solutions for monitor users and VR fliers alike.

I notice VR players tend to ask for more help with everything... especially this issue. 

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2 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Yes things have changed. The type of player today that wants icons is playing WT

There is hardly anyone using them here. 

 

Well, I am not sure about that. I'm a nerd that have flown sims since the Spectrum days. I don't appreciate WT at all and mostly fly IL2 and DCS. I have 600+ hours IRL stick time and agree that finding an aircraft in the air IRL is difficult. But when you have found it and are tracking it - it is not that hard and I have NEVER lost track of a plane as it passed in over a forest to then see it when it goes out over a field again. And that is my main gripe. Loosing track of a plane 250 meters away as the 3D engine tries to render a texture over a small 3D model that is the exact same green color as the texture of the trees below. And the wings of a plane just 250 meters away are 3-5 pixels wide, of the exact same green color as the trees below... And below does not exist when the final image is rendered so it's gone. Some parts are darker so what you see is really a spinner and some edge. And naturally when moving it's easier than a still image - but the forests are large so they "flicker" like some Predator camo from a 90:ies movie.

 

I have realized that I fly very little online but used to do it a lot back in the 1946 days where spotting was a lot easier and dog fighting was more fun in my opinion. 1946 had a lot less detailed forests making the aircraft easier to see. Less ground clutter overall naturally with an older engine making the aircraft easier to follow. 

 

So in the end with BoX, people buy 4K screens and turn the ground textures down to the minimum with "blurred ground textures" on to be able to spot the enemy AC online. And then you can see the aircraft rather good. Is that the way we make this game more realistic than WT?

 

Look at this LA5 at 1500 meters away with low settings,  1440p and blurred ground textures. Rather easy to spot and track that far away as that forest that would make it disappear on high settings is now just a blurry dark green splatter on the ground. Compare that with the one below that 230 meters away on highest settings that I posted earlier. If you can find it. And thats what people do on "full real" servers today...

f8MDBxJ.jpg

 

LA5 230 meters away, ultra settings, sharp ground textures filter.

WiwFcVW.jpg

 

And this has nothing to do with VR - these shots are from a normal 1440p screen.

 

 

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Halo is not the solution and I would be against it, because it works as an icon (and we have icons already). In my opinion, they need to look at the way things are being rendered and why it is so different / worse from ROF (BOX is the revamped ROF game engine). Today I played two quick missions with Albatroses about 300m below me, one in each game, and ROF is way more defined the boundaries of terrain an aircraft. If I enable SS, then the image is just gorgeous. And I played BOX with Ultra settings.

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39 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

I notice VR players tend to ask for more help with everything... especially this issue. 

If you actually read the thread instead of just beaming to the first sighting of the letters VR, you'd have noticed the halo and other spotting wants were requested by monitor users. Have a wonderful day! 🤙

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Posted (edited)

And another thing about reality - as we are talking about the "full reality here".

 

A wing is a hard reflective surface even if it is painted with matte paint (that is not so matte on a used plane). A forest with leaves reflect light in a completely different way. Another thing that I think everyone that has flown IRL knows is that when you are flying there is almost always a slight "haze" of moisture / pollution etc in the air. Only on a very clear winter day you might end up with air that is really clear looking down. So when you fly at 600 meters looking down at that other aircraft at 300 meters with the green forest below - the forest down low will have a more "haze" over it than the aircraft at 300 meters. So it will "stand out" over the ground below as there is always that "slight fog effect" looking down. Especially in summer time. And looking down at a forest like in that 109 shot above the leaves would never be so "bright clear green".

Edited by mazex
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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, mazex said:

So in the end with BoX, people buy 4K screens and turn the ground textures down to the minimum with "blurred ground textures" on to be able to spot the enemy AC online. And then you can see the aircraft rather good. Is that the way we make this game more realistic than WT?

 

Hard to argue [against it].

Edited by SeaW0lf

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Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, mazex said:

And the wings of a plane just 250 meters away are 3-5 pixels wide, of the exact same green color as the trees below... And below does not exist when the final image is rendered so it's gone. Some parts are darker so what you see is really a spinner and some edge. 

That’s why this sim needs HDR. Monitors and game engine that generate 1 billion colors instead of 16.7 million and a much greater range of contrast. A screen with a higher level of brightness. The solution is already here, IL-2 just needs to play catch up. Sad to say but if you were running this game on a current console like an Xbox One X you’d have an easier time seeing the aircraft. Also because you’d probably have that console hooked up to a big 4K HDR TV. 

 

And icons just just aren’t popular here. Right now prime time MP there are 170 playing Expert and 20 on Normal (with icons)

Edited by SharpeXB

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

That’s why this sim needs HDR. Monitors and game engine that generate 1 billion colors instead of 16.7 million and a much greater range of contrast. A screen with a higher level of brightness. The solution is already here, IL-2 just needs to play catch up. Sad to say but if you were running this game on a current console like an Xbox One X you’d have an easier time seeing the aircraft. Also because you’d probably have that console hooked up to a big 4K HDR TV. 

 

I have a PS4 Pro with a good 65 inch 4K HDR TV for the kids so I am well aware of what it looks like, even though there is some fiddeling to get that TV and PS4 Pro to really go into HDR mode as there is a lot of HDMI negotiations going on etc. I guess it will be a bit tricky for many on PC:s as well having old HDMI cables etc.

 

With that said, the games that support HDR on the PS4 look great in many occasions - but some also get rather messed up in the color scale, so that the non HDR version actually looks better. There is also a problem that Sony shodded the first iteration of the PSVR so if the VR box is connected you will not get HDR passthrough through that. It is a bit difficult to get HDR running in short that I am sure will spill over on PC:s as well.

 

But I do agree that HDR would give us a lot more "shades of green" that would make the problem with disappearing planes less pronounced - but I still think that some "wax on wax off" like @SeaWolf proposes to get more of that ROF glimmer in the wings would make more of a difference and it is a very easy fix. I also consider it more realistic as the planes in BoX are to "matte" right now. And with glimmer we are talking jumps in the color scale that don't need HDR to be displayed.

 

And like I said myself above - there is way to little "haze" in the air in BoX and that would make the planes stand out more against the ground. But people would complain that the ground always looks a bit foggy. But that's the way it is in the actual "full real" world instead of the BoX 3D engine... People that have flown small planes at lower altitudes know exactly what I mean.

40 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

And icons just just aren’t popular here. Right now prime time MP there are 170 playing Expert and 20 on Normal (with icons)

 

I completely agree that the giant icons in BoX are unacceptable. If contrast enhancing measures to make the AC stop blending with the ground don't work I would propose much smaller icons as a last resort... And no colour / ac type etc. Just a small v like in DCS. And as an option for the ones that want a more relaxed but not WT style of game. But I want a game that is "full real" like the real world, where you can actually track an aircraft flying in a straight direction 300 meters below you with ease.

Edited by mazex

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I think the term  should be "full difficulty" as there is not a whole lot that is real in a pixel dog fight.

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9 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

I think the term  should be "full difficulty" as there is not a whole lot that is real in a pixel dog fight.

Now your just arguing semantics.

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Not arguing anything sir.  Making a, IMHO, fair observation of our passtime after 20+ years of involvement.

 

Simmers are always trying to make things harder than they really are.

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1 hour ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

Not arguing anything sir.  Making a, IMHO, fair observation of our passtime after 20+ years of involvement.

 

Simmers are always trying to make things harder than they really are.


I’m having ubi flashbacks now...”full real” vs “full switch” 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

I think the term  should be "full difficulty" as there is not a whole lot that is real in a pixel dog fight.

Or just “no aids”

it doesn’t have so much to do with realism. It’s simply a setting everyone can agree on. It would be impossible for players to agree on what level custom icons should be set at to constitute “realistic”

Off is a setting everyone can agree on. Everyone’s equal which is all that really matters. 

3 hours ago, mazex said:

And like I said myself above - there is way to little "haze" in the air in BoX and that would make the planes stand out more against the ground. But people would complain that the ground always looks a bit foggy. But that's the way it is in the actual "full real" world instead of the BoX 3D engine... People that have flown small planes at lower altitudes know exactly what I mean.

That’s certainly a good and realistic effect. It would be great to have that rendered accurately. 

3 hours ago, mazex said:

And no colour / ac type etc. Just a small v like in DCS. And as an option for the ones that want a more relaxed but not WT style of game. 

The small sprites in DCS were a disaster. And a “v” would be even more so.  In DCS it’s made worse that the modern aircraft can engage each other at that range and the dot makes using radar pointless. The fact is any sort of icon at all becomes a crutch. It’s best to learn to do without.

Edited by SharpeXB

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Posted (edited)
Spoiler
On 8/25/2019 at 4:05 AM, SharpeXB said:

My brother is a paratrooper and they have some sort of VR rig for parachute training. I’m sure it sucks compared to current tech. 

No kidding. But they can see out of them. 

Racing sims are actually easy to relate to because although we don’t all fly airplanes, we do all drive cars. It feels very real with the force feedback wheels. So imagine driving your car at high speed through traffic wearing a scuba mask. Not too great huh. Racing is 100% stress and adrenaline. Flying is calm and relaxing by comparison. 

 

That observation about VR was from a real driver. Read the first comment

 

 

 

 

I agree with video , its main reason I prefer 2D vs VR. VR is good its just not yet at the level I want it to be  , (in game tech , (software)  not just hardware).
 

Re spotting IMHO, the game needs to add in stuff to deal with colour and contrast loss and res loss compared to a human eye IRL to make contacts a bit easier to spot especially against things like heavy tree backgounds for eg.

 

The new updated coming are going to add new contacts spotting distance , but I don't think its aimed at improving close spotting against contrasty backgrounds like trees. From my reading its all about distance spotting...
DD link

Quote
  • Improved visibility distance of planes and ships. The main difficulty in the development of this feature was making the dynamic objects show at great distances without a steady stream of data reporting their position and orientation. Another important thing is to model the lighting of the airplane even at long range - we discarded the idea of having just black dots at these distances, where the visibility of an object is determined by the position of the sun, brightness and hue of the sky, haze, etc. All this is impossible to model having only a black dot. The distant planes flying at high altitudes will have contrails and ships will have visible wakes. It is also important to have more or less equal terms for owners of different monitors. Having completed all these tasks, we'll increase the maximum visibility distance for planes and ships from 10 to 100 km and the resulting visibility distance will realistically correspond to the lighting and weather conditions.

 

And IL-2 COD uses a DOT system at distance , quite different to il-2 GB , I prefer how its done in IL-2 GB (as do the developers from above quote), But it still needs work on current spotting ability.

 

I think ALSO part of the problem currently is not so much movement in plane in a screen image , but the movement effects we also get in the background image around the plane.(which is why blurring the background helps). And and people have stated already , the human eyes sees better movement contrast (goes back to animal hunting , how eye evolved). With hardware limitations and different setups people have,  its not an easy problem to solve.

 

ie high movement contrast helps spotting.(any aberrations in the background image impact this, which is worse against things like trees) So to deal with resolution and aliasing issues artificial contrasting on the plane is needed.

 

 

 

Edited by =RS=Stix_09

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

The type of player today that wants icons is playing WT

 

You know that in WT mainly you fly with mouse or game console controller and WT is free-to-play many players don't care about the realistic stuff they just want fun. Another thing is you can play WT on very Low-End-Hardware Intel HD Graphics with good FPS for example. Icons are not the problem here, every from our Normal Difficult Servers has them enabled.

 

11 hours ago, mazex said:

I have realized that I fly very little online but used to do it a lot back in the 1946 days where spotting was a lot easier and dog fighting was more fun in my opinion. 1946 had a lot less detailed forests making the aircraft easier to see. Less ground clutter overall naturally with an older engine making the aircraft easier to follow. 

 

So in the end with BoX, people buy 4K screens and turn the ground textures down to the minimum with "blurred ground textures" on to be able to spot the enemy AC online. And then you can see the aircraft rather good. Is that the way we make this game more realistic than WT?

 

Look at this LA5 at 1500 meters away with low settings,  1440p and blurred ground textures. Rather easy to spot and track that far away as that forest that would make it disappear on high settings is now just a blurry dark green splatter on the ground. Compare that with the one below that 230 meters away on highest settings that I posted earlier. If you can find it. And thats what people do on "full real" servers today...

 

 So if someone play with the lowest graphics settings makeshift with Nvidia Inspector which the game designers have not provided, mimimi 🤣

 

Edited by Livai

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1 hour ago, Livai said:

 So if I play with the lowest graphics settings makeshift with Nvidia Inspector modification or different GPU driver which the game designers have not provided, what am I then 🤩, mimimi 🤣

 

 

That screen shot with the clearly visible LA5 at 1,5km over a forest is just with the standard in-game options set to low and using the "Blurred" ground filter available in the game settings. I am pretty sure that cheaters are taking it one step further...

 

I always fly with the highest settings possible myself. But it does feel a bit annoying when the current spotting problems benefits people that use these official non-cheat low res settings instead. With more contrast / reflections etc discussed in this thread the ones running the highest settings would not be punished in the same way. And I am sure that it will be more fun as well with more people playing online etc. These days a lot of people are brought into our hobby with WT that have ads all over the internet. Some of them are serious and realize after a while that they want more realism and come here. Many of them are probably deterred by the fact that spotting is so hard in BoX. And as stated in this thread I feel that it's harder than reality.

 

We should be winning over those serious WT players to this game and not lose serious BoX players to WT that like the realism, flight models etc in this game - but don't have fun in multiplayer as the spotting is too hard and spoils the fun. But they really don't want big icons or visual aids. For me flying around online in circles chasing pixel blobs ruins a lot of the fun at least. But I do want the great full fidelity flight modelling in BoX, complex engine management, realistic modelling of systems etc. That is fun. And I do want to avoid icons and stuff...

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With all this mention of outlines and icons, I feel the need to mention that realistic spotting exists elsewhere, an example discreetly hidden away below...

Spoiler


Check out this vid (eeck, I hope it's okay to post this here), e.g. at 23:05 as the wingman flies against the landscape (a short example from a vid I've just been watching). To my eyes it looks f*n amazing and perfectly realistic. IS it because of blurry landscape textures? Dunno, but this level of naturalness is normal (from watching a fair few of these vids).

 

 

 

 

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Was online last night.  Had a decent time but was limited to a Target Render Resolution of approx 3k x 3k on those cheating Low Graphics Settings.  Getting between 50 and 70fps in VR (Pimax 8K Normal FOV which is approx 150 degrees horizontal).

 

Now I can tell you it wasn't easy identifying targets or spotting ground targets at those settings, had to do low spot sweeps of ground targets to see what to hit and at the risk of a symphony of AA opening up on me in the process.  Flying offline but at a Target Render Resolution of 6k x 6k with Foreated Rendering on Aggressive would make things a lot easier to identify but at this point in time, stability is not there for online playing.

 

There might be some who can push the limits of their display devices at a decent frame rate with all the bells and whistles but if you are then compaining because you believe lower graphics settings give a Competitive "Cheat" Advantage - why don't you equalise the advantage and go Low Graphics Settings as well?

 

I can also say that at 6k x 6k Target Render Res - Clouds in Low and Balanced Graphics are not as much of an issue either.

 

Anyway - had a fun time on the Finnish Server with some nice ground pounding ballet going on.  Even at crappier settings - it looked lovely.

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2 hours ago, blitze said:

Was online last night.  Had a decent time but was limited to a Target Render Resolution of approx 3k x 3k on those cheating Low Graphics Settings.  Getting between 50 and 70fps in VR (Pimax 8K Normal FOV which is approx 150 degrees horizontal).

 

 

Just to be clear - I do not mean that using the available settings is cheating, but more an unintended effect of the current implementation. People that mess with Nvidia driver overrides with the goal to improve spotting is another thing :)

 

Anyway - if changing the contrast or whatnot in the end even makes spotting a bit easier than real life - is that really a problem? This is a simulation game that we play because it's fun and we love nerdy details about old aircraft modelled down to the last nut etc. A perfect computer simulation of how hard spotting aircraft is IRL and how to excel at that is not what brought us here, especially as our spotting is improved by lowering the landscape settings etc  And online today is a lot about spotting those pesky pixels.

And looking through a narrow FOV view cone at a flat monitor or a VR headset with rather low resolution is not the same as the autofocusing, ultra high res, stereoscopic, 180+ degree FOV Mk I Eyeballs on a fast swiveling real neck (tm). So if the small pixelblob of an aircraft on that screen have a bit more contrast than IRL we are still at a disadvantage vs real life...

What we DO want is to have a Spitfire/109/Yak/Mustang or whatever that works as close as possible to reality and fly an epic dogfight where we end up as winners doing victory rolls over the airfield on our way to that perfect three pointer landing on that last fuel reserve  That is fun...

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11 hours ago, =RS=Stix_09 said:
  Reveal hidden contents

 

And IL-2 COD uses a DOT system at distance , quite different to il-2 GB

The dots are a poor solution because they encourage players to turn down their resolution in order to make the pixel sized dots bigger. A solution that requires you to wreck your graphics to get some advantage isn’t a good one. 

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Posted (edited)

Only real-life-like solution to spot targets from the current situation is to emphasize the contrast between the flying object and the background at realistic manner. Normally at daylight the flying target is seen lighter at darker background and the flying object is seen darker on lighter background like sky. This applies on varying degree on different lighting situations.

High Dynamic Range (HDR) graphics / output might at it's best bring this result if is implemented properly but it is unknown wether IL-2 GB engine can be implemented to HDR with a decent effort.

It think, the easiest and quickest way to increase the realistic visibility of aerial targets are to emphasize a bit of object's light colour against darker background and vice versa, so the object will pop out a bit more from the background but not much.  The human eyes will catch the movement if we can get a bit more contrast to the objects and the background.

 


 

Edited by LLv44_Damixu
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4 minutes ago, LLv44_Damixu said:

High Dynamic Range (HDR) graphics / output might at it's best bring this result if is implemented properly but it is unknown wether IL-2 GB engine can be implemented to HDR with a decent effort.

Even without actual HDR support, this game and all others look really fantastic on an HDR display. A display like this will show a really improved contrast ratio and color depth even when receiving SDR. Really that just because they are very good displays. 

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Even without actual HDR support, this game and all others look really fantastic on an HDR display. A display like this will show a really improved contrast ratio and color depth even when receiving SDR. Really that just because they are very good displays. 

Indeed, I have several HDR capable  42, 55 and 65 LED and OLED displays with at least 10-bit HDR capabilities and I am truely impressed with the visuals. So rich colours and depth of perception.

I like my Pimax 5k+ HMD too, but today it's not the option to use for example a TAW bomber mission, do or die type of situation.
For the moment, for demanding air combat I have to still use my 2D displays over VR HMDs... I still love the concept of 3D HMDs and use it civilian flight sims like X-Plane

 

 

Edited by LLv44_Damixu

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On 8/25/2019 at 4:53 PM, BlitzPig_EL said:

Not tried VR, no one close to me has a set, but if it's anything like any other stereoscopic visual device it won't work for me because of a congenital eye condition I have (weak left eye).  So I need a monitor set up, and spotting that works well on a monitor.

I am on and off VR. 

Had a permanent loan on Rift I delivered back because it did not work well for me in MI 8 module in DCS. Got a Rift S this friday and found it adequate. I read you can optimize the lenses for your eyes. Anyway it give a feeling of actually sit in the plane. It also give you an edge in distance judgement and aiming. But that is about it. In my opinion rather un practical in many ways. But it is a great gadget for some short flights for fun. 

Anyway as soon as I left for work my son grabbed it and I probably had my two days of flying with them

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On 8/26/2019 at 2:53 AM, Go_Pre said:


Unless I missed it, the halo solution had nothing to do with VR. In fact, I find spotting in VR to be easier than on a monitor. 
 

I’m not a fan of labels either, but people are discussion solutions for monitor users and VR fliers alike.

 

That was exactly my point.  The topic of the thread is "realistic spotting" in General Discussion: it is of concern to all, this is not a VR thread.  Additionally it is not just a matter of MP - getting a reasonable realism/enjoyment balance in SP is just as much of an issue with the current spotting at max graphic settings.

 

Since upgrading to 4K, I found the game is pretty much unplayable without sometimes using icons or blurred settings, especially on the Moscow map.  Problem with labels/icons for me is that they make me look at a flat screen instead of into it - they interfere with the illusion of a 3D world.  So I currently use the blurred setting instead -  @mazex screenshots show why very clearly. 

 

If some people find that VR solves this issue, I am perfectly happy for them: but for many of us VR is either not possible or undesirable.  I would rather be able to use the full graphics of BoX: a halo would all work for me, better lighting and contrast would be even better.  

 

Question now is where is this in Jason's priority list.

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Posted (edited)
On 8/26/2019 at 11:29 AM, mazex said:

 

That screen shot with the clearly visible LA5 at 1,5km over a forest is just with the standard in-game options set to low and using the "Blurred" ground filter available in the game settings. I am pretty sure that cheaters are taking it one step further...

 

 

Blurry the ground texture or change other Graphic Settings that are in the Game to gain advantage or FPS or both you can't hardly say to them cheater..........

In MP you can always expect that the player will always search a way to gain advantage some stuff are legit and some are not as long you not invoke the Anit-Cheat-System you can do whatever you want.......

As long I know MP, MP always was this way.

 

On 8/26/2019 at 11:29 AM, mazex said:

With more contrast / reflections etc discussed in this thread the ones running the highest settings would not be punished in the same way.

 

I like the Contrast / reflection + the much better Graphic in DCS 2.5 and CloD Blitz. 

 

On 8/26/2019 at 11:29 AM, mazex said:

Many of them are probably deterred by the fact that spotting is so hard in BoX. And as stated in this thread I feel that it's harder than reality.

 

The real problem with spotting is within visual range! In reality Planes becoming extremely difficult to spot when they are further away than 5 km from you. Lose sight of things shouldn't be when the enemy is only 2km away from you. But this is reality in BoX

 

On 8/26/2019 at 11:29 AM, mazex said:

For me flying around online in circles chasing pixel blobs ruins a lot of the fun at least.

 

For me in BoX the planes pixelate too fast at the same range compared to CLoD Blitz or DCS 2.5 where I never notice this feature how in BoX.

 

On 8/26/2019 at 11:29 AM, mazex said:

But I do want the great full fidelity flight modelling in BoX, complex engine management, realistic modelling of systems etc. That is fun. And I do want to avoid icons and stuff...

 

But spotting within visual range and lose sight of things to the enemy  what is just 2km away runis everything.

 

Edited by Livai
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