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LLv34_Temuri

Tanks at Finnish VirtualPilots!

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1 hour ago, US93_Furlow said:

Encountered some invulnerable mg nests.  Drove right up to them and lit them up with mg's with no effect.

Thanks for reporting. To my knowledge all MGs should be vulnerable, so need to investigate if there's an error in the template groups or if it was game bug.

 

However, all AAA at airfields is invulnerable on purpose.

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Posted (edited)

Can something be done about the bridges?

The distances on the maps are fairly large, from a tanker's point of view (while not for planes).

Frequently, you have to cross a bridge to get to the enemy stuff (tank bases, troops, etc.)

Clearly, there are some tank hating pilots out there who bomb those bridges, although the bridges which have to be crossed are different from the bridges which are mission goals.

I just drove for a long while to Karpovka only to find the bridge destroyed. It's wasn't even clear whether it was friend or foe who had destroyed it.

Then I sat in front of it for a long time, during which it didn't repair. It's basically a tank-hostile map design.

What would help:

The rebuild times could be quicker

The bridges could be harder to destroy

There could be alternative bridges nearby

 

Edited by stupor-mundi
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War is hell.... right? 😬

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18 hours ago, stupor-mundi said:

Can something be done about the bridges?

The distances on the maps are fairly large, from a tanker's point of view (while not for planes).

Frequently, you have to cross a bridge to get to the enemy stuff (tank bases, troops, etc.)

Clearly, there are some tank hating pilots out there who bomb those bridges, although the bridges which have to be crossed are different from the bridges which are mission goals.

I just drove for a long while to Karpovka only to find the bridge destroyed. It's wasn't even clear whether it was friend or foe who had destroyed it.

Then I sat in front of it for a long time, during which it didn't repair. It's basically a tank-hostile map design.

What would help:

The rebuild times could be quicker

The bridges could be harder to destroy

There could be alternative bridges nearby

 

It helps to send out only positive waves.

 Kelly hősei (Kelly's Heroes, 1970) (With images) | Kelly's heroes ...

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SCG has been playing last 2 weeks on the server and had much fun and we love the realistic military style and cant wait for the updates for it 😄 Found the bridge and way of taking out objectives realistic and good, and the front lines move and one have to play strategicaly.

Some pictures:
Last week:

We attacked the russian forward artilley place with our Panzer IV´s, followed the road until we got to our starting point and then went north and attacked through the forest, taking out most of the base while engaging other tankers where Corezero did superb with taking out 4 tanks 😄

This week:
We spawned in the forward tank spawn with the 4 panthers and panzer IV and one Tiger who came too late to help.... We went north along the road and got to our starting point where we drove off and went towards the enemy base that we had to take out, attacked it and took out most of its defences with the help from luftwaffe. We also took out 1 Sherman and 1 SU-122, as the objective was taken. We got then attacked by Allied jabos and russian biplanes so we moved into cover the best we could, lost 2 tanks to them. Later once safe we proceeded north and took the enemy airfield. We then went towards the volga river and found the bridges destroyed, so we reported in the need for repairs and proceeded back to our base to end todays mission. Had to wait for some minor repairs on one tank but soon we went back and we finished our mission.
We had much fun 😄

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Posted (edited)

I'm trying to understand something about the concept of sector health.

From some conversations I saw on chat, I had gathered that targets such as rear depots are more important with regards to how the front moves, than what happens with the troops/arti on the front. Maybe this applies to ships as well.

I had been tanking on the red side, in the hills, east and west of Krymskaya, we were winning on the ground, destroying blue troops and so on, but with each new mission, the front shifted further east. Now there's a long tongue sticking out wayy into the east, which is the exact opposite from what I had expected based on what happened on the ground.

So I assume this must have been driven by blue being more successful in destroying rear targets, but it's hard to understand how such a shape would result.

Another question regarding this tongue is where the tank bases/fighting is being placed (by algorithm?) -- the tongue has a S and a N front, but the fighting only seems to take place on the north front.

A bit of background why I care about this: The tank set is very unbalanced, and red only really has a chance when there is either terrain or towns to fight in. While the Pz4 is slower than the T34, the gun is better at long range. Thus, to fight for red in flat terrain is a huge drag essentially. The more hills/ravines the better.

 

 

 

Edited by stupor-mundi
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Any object you destroy affects the distance that the frontline moves. Each object has a health value. You can find examples of the values at stats.virtualpilots.fi:8000/en/info/

So rear targets tend to have more valuable targets. There is also a multiplier applied to the frontline target values, so that it’s not so lopsided towards rear targets.

 

The frontline moves in the direction that the front troops are placed in. You can draw a line between the front troops to see it. The advance is then a triangle along this direction, with the height being the distance that the <s chat command tells you.

 

The battle areas are picked randomly from the frontline. The reason we don’t have battles south of the ”tongue” is that there are no ”free areas”, i.e. areas without trees etc. there.

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Also, if you would happen to cut the roadline behind that "tongue", the area that gets encircled switches side.

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18 hours ago, LLv34_Temuri said:

Any object you destroy affects the distance that the frontline moves. Each object has a health value. You can find examples of the values at stats.virtualpilots.fi:8000/en/info/

So rear targets tend to have more valuable targets. There is also a multiplier applied to the frontline target values, so that it’s not so lopsided towards rear targets.

 

The frontline moves in the direction that the front troops are placed in. You can draw a line between the front troops to see it. The advance is then a triangle along this direction, with the height being the distance that the <s chat command tells you.

 

The battle areas are picked randomly from the frontline. The reason we don’t have battles south of the ”tongue” is that there are no ”free areas”, i.e. areas without trees etc. there.

 

Hi Temuri,

thanks for the detailled explanation! very clear.

 

I have another question, about bridges. Since I had done missions on Finnish, I had never experienced a damaged/destroyed bridge being repaired, even on very long missions.

Thus I had concluded that they stay how they are.

But today, at Severskaya, I damaged a road bridge by blowing up a tank as it was driving over it. One segment was hanging off in a way that made it impossible to get across from the blue side. Some time later, maybe an hour or so, I was near that bridge again and it had evidently been repaired.

So I'm wondering what determines whether a bridge will get repaired, is it maybe that lightly damaged bridges get repaired but heavily damaged ones don't, or is there some randomness involved?

 

 

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If a bridge is between the front troops, it will be repaired 30 minutes after it has been destroyed. Any other bridges will stay destroyed.

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Posted (edited)

I just had a disturbing experience with friendly fire on your server.

I was in a T34 north of blue S2 arti, and was attacked numerous times by an IL2.

Once this began, I pointed out on chat that I was a red tank and that the IL2 should stop.

This went on for a long time since the IL2 kept missing enough, so that the 'friendly fire' message didnt appear. I kept telling IL2 to stop, and described where I was on the map.

The IL2 just kept going. Eventually the strafing was close enough so that the friendly fire message appeared, it was "OMGNinja".

My commander was injured and I had to abort. I voted to ban OMGNinja, but nobody, not even the tankers, were willing to support.

While I was complaining about this, other flyers just told me to chill.

So please ban OMGNinja, for repeated and I believe intentional friedly fire.

UK time now 18:46, this was about 15/20 minutes ago, please check the chat logs.

---

Unfortunately I didn't record the whole thing, but I have a track of the last few minutes of this.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by stupor-mundi
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Salutations,

 

I sympathize with you. One of the greatest negatives about online multiplayer play are the jerks encountered and those that enable them to continue ruining the experience for others.

 

Record things when you can and report the improper behavior. That's about all one can do. Other than ceasing to participate online. 😕

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Next time instead of spamming the coms indefinitely, just fire the damn green flare.

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4 hours ago, Goosevich said:

Next time instead of spamming the coms indefinitely, just fire the damn green flare.

 

Again, this is completely unacceptable, just as was your reaction at the time, especially since you were tanking yourself.

 

I was fired upon by a friendly plane and was using the team chat for its intended purpose, telling him I was a friendly tank and that he should stop. That's not spamming.

At the same time you were chatting to a tanker of the other team about some details of how well each of you were hitting. Which of those is spamming?

 

The reason I had to keep repeating myself in chat was that he kept going strafing me, and not responding on chat, which is also why I think he did it on purpose.

 

The suggestion I should fire a green flare exposes a view about the responsibilities of attack planes vs tankers which I have to address here. This needs to be clear so that tanking can be viable on this server.

 

It's the responsibility of attack planes to visually identify the different types of tanks before attacking, and not attack friendly ones. Again, friendly fire is not allowed.

Exactly as it's the responsibility of planes in to visually identify other planes before shooting.

 

Your reaction is exemplary of the cavalier attitude towards team killing of tanks which I have seen many times on this server, when pilots were told to stop attacking a friendly tank and reacted as if it was some kind of joke.

 

Another IL2 pilot, Toasty_1, who was probably the second IL2 I saw in the area, reacted similarly, roughly saying it was my own fault I was near the enemy tank spawn, and that IL-2s would just sensibly attack anything that moves on the ground in that area.

 

Tanking is all about being stealthy and sneaking up on the enemy from behind. Especially for red, since the blue tanks have better long range guns and stronger armor on the front. So OF COURSE it's not my responsibility as a tanker to fire a green flare to tell my 'friendly' aircraft they shouldn't kill me.

 

I have been on various IL-2 servers for 2 1/2 years, first Action Tank and Dogfight, then EFront, and only for a few weeks on this server, and never has anything remotely ridiculous happened to me as yesterday, being repeatedly and intentionally strafed until team killed. But even more ridiculous were the reactions by Toasty and you Goosevich, that I should chill and STFU.

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, LLv34_Temuri said:

Notified the person in question.

Thanks. "Notified" sound a little vague tbh. Is he banned?

Since this was, as I believe, fully intentional TK. I'm happy to provide the track, in case the chat logs aren't clear enough about what happened. If you look at it I think you will agree, although it only shows the last part of the strafing.

 

 

Edited by stupor-mundi

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Posted (edited)

Sure, TK sucks MAJOR ass and triggers me both ways (since i fucked up as well on the same session vs LA-5 with a roof mounted .50) but...

Quote

So OF COURSE it's not my responsibility as a tanker to fire a green flare to tell my 'friendly' aircraft they shouldn't kill me.

 

....on the contrary - it is. The flares are there for a reason.


Point is - all you did was clog the comms we were all communicating with spotting enemy tanks on the way to us, and you were afaik already back at the spawn for R&R. Yeah we got it dude but that's how it looks like on servers without markings and FF enabled, period.

Edited by Goosevich

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Goosevich said:

Sure, TK sucks MAJOR ass and triggers me both ways (since i fucked up as well on the same session vs LA-5 with a roof mounted .50) but...

 

....on the contrary - it is. The flares are there for a reason.


Point is - all you did was clog the comms we were all communicating with spotting enemy tanks on the way to us, and you were afaik already back at the spawn for R&R. Yeah we got it dude but that's how it looks like on servers without markings and FF enabled, period.

 

I was addressing the IL-2. Since the pilot didn't speak up in the chat, I had no way of addressing him by name.

It was clear from the context, to OMGNinja, what I was talking about, since there was probably not another IL-2 TK'ing a red tank at the same time.

Whether you understood everything that was going on there is unimportant, since you weren't involved. You should have just stayed out of it, instead of telling me to STFU.

 

About the flares. I think this part might require some statement by the server admins.

The allied player tanks look completely different from the axis player tanks. The T34 has a very characteristic shape, so does the Sherman, so do all the axis tanks. The Panther somewhat resembles the T34 in some ways, but has an enormously longer larger gun. On the non-winter missions, all the allied tanks are dark green, whereas the axis tanks are yellow-beige. Sometimes an axis tank choses winter camo, then it's off-white.

 

If we let it stand that the attack plane pilots are ok not to learn what the vehicles look like, or not care, and are fine to just hit anything that moves on the ground, until the strafed friendly shoots a green flare, that's just no basis for combined arms. If this is what people go by, why don't I just shoot a green flare when I'm a red tank and a 110 attacks me???

 

If this attitude prevails, it leaves the door open to attack planes bullying tanks. Not all players focus on their own side winning, some are more keen on their own score, or just on blowing up as much stuff as possible. And in this regard, attack planes and tanks, on the same team, compete for the same resources, which is, the enemy ground targets.

 

If it's not the pilot's job to ID the tanks, but the tank's job to shoot a green flare, it opens the door to a situation where IL-2 pilots just strafe everything until the friendly tanks shoot the green flare, which gives away their position and puts them at risk from the opposing tanks, thus leaving more targets for the planes.

 

 

Edited by stupor-mundi

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Posted (edited)

I'll quote myself:
 

Quote

Yeah we got it dude but that's how it looks like on servers without markings and FF enabled, period.

Edited by Goosevich

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Goosevich said:

but that's how it looks like on servers without markings and FF enabled, period.

 

I've never seen you back in the day on Action Tanks and Dogfight, and don't recall seeing you on EFront. Tanking on Finnish is quite a recent thing. So I don't think you'll be telling me what things are like on tank servers.

Edited by stupor-mundi
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Posted (edited)

So? Welcome to VIDYA GEAMS my dude. It's universal. Get off yer high horse mate.



EOT.

Edited by Goosevich
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20 minutes ago, Goosevich said:

So? Welcome to VIDYA GEAMS my dude. It's universal. Get off yer high horse mate.
EOT.

 

I don't think I'll be spending my time trying to learn every meme that ever existed.

In case the meaning of that expression is, roughly, that the various online games/sims all follow the same conventions, so that having spent a ton of time on one equals the next one, I don't quite agree. While the problem of TK is a fundamental one that all of them have, the mechanisms each game/sim has to deal with that issue may be quite different.

I don't know what the relevant conventions regarding this are, in other current generation flight/tank sims, and neither do I care. I don't think people in IL-2 are keen on just adopting the conventions from other games.

 

 

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No. He is not banned. I sent him a message. There’s an automatic system that does banning for repeated TK, and generally, we have not banned anyone manually for first offence.

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Posted (edited)
On 7/12/2020 at 7:56 PM, stupor-mundi said:

 

I don't think I'll be spending my time trying to learn every meme that ever existed.

In case the meaning of that expression is, roughly, that the various online games/sims all follow the same conventions, so that having spent a ton of time on one equals the next one, I don't quite agree. While the problem of TK is a fundamental one that all of them have, the mechanisms each game/sim has to deal with that issue may be quite different.

I don't know what the relevant conventions regarding this are, in other current generation flight/tank sims, and neither do I care. I don't think people in IL-2 are keen on just adopting the conventions from other games.

 

 

Hey stupor, I supported you. The other guys do have a point though in that if you are lurking near their tank spawn or artillery you need to warn people, as I do when I fly one of those 'Russian' Ju52s. If I'm dodging the AA to drop a load of PTABs on a group of vehicles I wouldn't expect to have to check each one to see if a friendly had sneaked in.

Edited by beresford

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But not interrestet for Blue Tank Player! NO Tiger, No Panther, No Ferdinand.

Only the Paper Tanks PZIII and PanzerIV.

Look on Statistic, only Reds made Points.

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