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     Well,  now that we have the PzIVG, hopefully we can see some limitations on the Tigers in the servers.   I'm a big fan of the Tiger and like to play it.   However,,,,,,,  having played on the Russian side on the SCG server,  I now know full well that  it kind of sucks for them.  The Tiger is, for the most part, all that can be seen on the German side, with an occasional PzIII sprinkled in.   I was able to surprise groups of 3 Tigers, 2 times.  The first, having not played the T34 much, I opened fire at 800m.   Got in alot of hits before my demise.  The second time, I came up on the other side of trees, got within 500m,  opened fire and destroyed 2.   IT took  25 rounds of Pzgr 40 to take out those 2.

 

     A single Tiger, that does not allow himself to be flanked, and surprised up close,   is almost impossible to take out unless you have AC or  track the tank and can close.  Even a tracked Tiger is tough, because it can turn with one track, slew the gun, and if it has a long range, clear FOF, then will most kill any approaching tank if the gunnery is good. 

 

     Who knows,  maybe limiting the Tigers will see more players in tanks, and less in attack AC.

 

 

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You got the second Tiger (mine, the one charging you through he woods), because I got overconfident in my turret face armor. You punched right through killing my gunner and I turned out to be a sitting duck. I could only try to angle and pray.

 

Have you tried the lower sides right above the tacks? There is ammo right behind and only 60 mm of armor protecting it. Should be nice fireworks.

You are right in stating that a Tiger, that knows where the enemy is, is almost unkillable, especially when using Mahlzeitpositions (angling the Tiger) .

 

I for one have to say that I prefer the IV over the VI. Faster rate of fire,  high road speed, high turret traverse. The only thing it lacks is armor.

 

  

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Yeah, the P IV is ~basically~ just a P III with a gun.  And remember, the game expected the P III to be competitive with the T34 so the P IV should be OP - lol.

 

I like the P IV, too, but you have to keep Reds at arms length or you're done for.

 

 

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17 minutes ago, chuter said:

And remember, the game expected the P III to be competitive with the T34 so the P IV should be OP - lol.

🤔 And who exactly did say so? The PzKpfw III was implemented as opponent of the T34, because it was the main battle tank at the time of Stalingrad. It was pretty clear, that it was inferior, especially as we did not get the PzGr. 40 before TC started in early release. The reason, why the Wehrmacht had such success in the first years, was not the PzKpfw III, but everything else they had on their side. (radio comm, better tactics, close air support by the Luftwaffe)

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5 hours ago, SCG_SchleiferGER said:

The only thing it lacks is armor.

As I know, germans widely used additional caterpillar armor for Pz-IV (even for roof armor).

Wrote about it several times on russian-speaking forum.. We need such ability in the game.

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2 hours ago, Lofte said:

As I know, germans widely used additional caterpillar armor for Pz-IV (even for roof armor).

Wrote about it several times on russian-speaking forum.. We need such ability in the game.

The weak spot at the turret front would stay, but nevertheless it would be a good addition. Would make it look much more front like. Another nice addition would be a holding for an AA machinegun on the commanders cuppola, with the ability to put one of the tanks MGs there for self-defense.

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I used the IV yesterday and I was very pleased with the rate of fire.  The aiming for me is very sensitive though....

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12 minutes ago, SCG_Neun said:

The aiming for me is very sensitive though....

Yes I had my issues with that, too. I am really thinking about trying Joy2Key. My mouse simply does not want what I want.

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Posted (edited)

All germans use the tiger all the time.
Hey! Take that back! I havent used the Tiger for over 3 weeks, mostly used panzer III until the Panzer IV got released which is my go to tank. So no, all germans dont use the tiger all the time :P

I agree but some changes needs to be done then: on most maps the number of Panzer IV is limited, like 10 of them and once they are out, the russians will stomp the germans down as we have the pathetic Panzer III to battle with while russians have unlimited amounts of deadly T-34s.
Make the number of Panzer IV unlimited and germans can fight the russians on even terms. Panzer IV was the working horse of the wehrmacht in 1943. Gladly see a limit to the number of Tigers but let me spawn however many Panzer IV´s I want.
Panzer IV and T-34 are equals, one hit from any of them will take the other out, T-34 has slightly better armour but it wont help against the panzer IV´s 75mm gun, while at the same time a shot from T-34 will kill the Panzer IV. Perfectly matched tanks.

Edited by judgedeath3
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PIV is absolutely my preferred tank on the blue side since it's release. I find Tiger too big of a target despite good armor, and PIV has a reliable gun with excellent fire rate while being a lot smaller profile to identify and fire at. It also retains it's good turret traverse when engine is off due to it's own specific engine mechanism. It will go 50kp/h on roads and has the same flaw of all blue tanks of being a bit slow off road, but I don't find this to reduce overall performance.

 

I'm suprised to see PIV to be limited on the eFront server. It is not a better tank than T34 or Sherman, but an equal opponent. I can't help but to feel like this is to intentionally keep the blue side from having a tank that is equal to red tanks while being abundant as well.

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56 minutes ago, Torrens said:

It will go 50kp/h on road

Depends on how steep the road is.

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1 hour ago, Torrens said:

PIV is absolutely my preferred tank on the blue side since it's release. I find Tiger too big of a target despite good armor, and PIV has a reliable gun with excellent fire rate while being a lot smaller profile to identify and fire at. It also retains it's good turret traverse when engine is off due to it's own specific engine mechanism. It will go 50kp/h on roads and has the same flaw of all blue tanks of being a bit slow off road, but I don't find this to reduce overall performance.

 

I'm suprised to see PIV to be limited on the eFront server. It is not a better tank than T34 or Sherman, but an equal opponent. I can't help but to feel like this is to intentionally keep the blue side from having a tank that is equal to red tanks while being abundant as well. 

I wrote this on the E-front servers forum page, I suggest you do too, so far no reply, wouldnt surprise me if they keep the Panzer IV limited so the russians have a big advantage in battles 😕

And yes this speed issue thing:
I noticed that most tanks travel way too fast than they should:
T-34 41 top speed on level ground is 50kmh but in the game I do easily 55kmh. Which is too high.
Tiger: 46-48kmh on level ground when historically it could only reach 38kmh on level ground.
Panzer III: Often get up to 45-46 kmh on even ground when historically its top speed was 40 kmh.

Panzer IV: Often reach 50kmh+ on even ground on roads with this thing when in reality it had a top speed of 40kmh on roads.

Quite silly how much faster the tanks are than they are supposed to be.

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I just had a look into the Specifications and wondered about speed and weight of the PzKpfw III and PzKpfw IV. 

The smaller, less armoured and with a much smaller gun equipped Pz III only weighs 900 kg less than the Pz IV?

And why is the heavier Pz IV with the same engine as the Pz III faster? The changes in the drive were for better acceleration, to compensate the additional weight, but the max speed was surely not higher with it.

And shouldn't german tanks be painted white inside?

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15 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

🤔 And who exactly did say so? The PzKpfw III was implemented as opponent of the T34, because it was the main battle tank at the time of Stalingrad. It was pretty clear, that it was inferior, especially as we did not get the PzGr. 40 before TC started in early release. The reason, why the Wehrmacht had such success in the first years, was not the PzKpfw III, but everything else they had on their side. (radio comm, better tactics, close air support by the Luftwaffe)

 

No one said so, it was simply implied as that's how the game was released, the average person believing a game pitting one side against the other does so giving each side an equal opportunity to win.  Yes, the PIII was the German main battle tank at the time but I think the game would have been more balanced had the game pitted the T34/76 against the StuG IIIG 75 L/43 rather than the PIIIL 50 L/60*.  I realize this is a sim and as such is based on reality but neither of these two approaches are factually "wrong" and yet they provide two very different gameplay experiences.  In the game the T34 dominated the PIII early in development and then the Tiger was released with a rather redundant KV1.  The extra armor of the KV1 made it almost immune to the already struggling PIII but didn't help much against the Tiger which now dominates the game (complaints of a dominating T34 replaced by complaints of a dominating Tiger.)  Gameplay parity is important because few people like to play a game with a baked-in disadvantage for one side even if it's historical.**  I don't know, just my pointless (I'm not a consultant to the team - lol) musings.

 

*T34 losses at the time included 10% to 75/long and 54% to 50/long.  The reasons for the success of the RL PIII against the T34 not being a factor in the sim gameplay.

**To counter this the EFront server has at least one map where Red wins if they still have a flag remaining at the expiration of time,  Blue needing to run the map to win.

 

>>> Still playing the game and wishing for more tank servers. The server list needs module check boxes like what is used for password servers. <<<

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10 часов назад, Torrens сказал:

I'm suprised to see PIV to be limited on the eFront server

Which map?

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3 hours ago, chuter said:

the average person believing a game pitting one side against the other does so giving each side an equal opportunity to win

This is how it should be.

 

3 hours ago, chuter said:

but I think the game would have been more balanced had the game pitted the T34/76 against the StuG IIIG 75 L/43 

or the PzKpfw IV F2, if you want to have a real tank instead of an assault gun, but yes, I would love to have the StuG. The thing is, how it currently works, with the gun always going back to 12o'clock, as soon as you enter another position, than the gunner's, you wouldn't even have any disadvantage to a tank with turnable turret, as the time loss through the turning of the turret, makes it anyway the best solution to always drive into the direction of your opponent.

And yes the Tiger vs. KV-1 was the same mistake, just the other way round, however I understand that they started with the Tiger, because it simply is the iconic tank of WWII, even more than the T-34.

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2 hours ago, 63RUS_WorM said:

Which map?

@63RUS_WorM i agree with Torrens on this ... it was the M2 map last night, i was only on the last Tank base at the end as the reds rampaged their way towards it, which DID have PIV's at the start but none were available for long, soon, we were back to the P3, and the other P.O.S and we all know what happened from there.

 

i have kept out of this " it isn't fair " debate on this forum for long enough, i know this is a game, but now i can say it does look as if there is a determined effort to ensure that the Reds always have the upper hand, as soon as the blues get anywhere near a level playing field there are restrictions put on them to ensure it is not for long, and then we are back to the usual business of blue bashing.

 

It has to be said that the reds are USUALLY better organised that the blues, they seem to play together more and have good team work, and better air support, which coupled with the advantages that they seem to have in their favour over the blues armour, makes it quite easy for them ... i'm surprised they don't get bored with it, but then maybe a lot of them have one eye on the stats.

 

Having said all this i do find that E-front is a enjoyable server to come to ... i have to say i get a good laugh on the comments that come up on the chat as people get frustrated with it all and start throwing a few insults about.😁

 

 

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Posted (edited)
5 часов назад, L1A1 сказал:

it was the M2 map last night

Ok i got it... I'll try to explain.

Each mission has a briefing, as far as I can write them in three languages (Russian, English and German).

Here is a quote from the briefing of mission M2:

Эпизод 2. Середина Октября 41 г. (rus)

Episode 2. Mid October 41 y. (eng)

Episode 2. Mitte Oktober 41 j. (ger)

I always see Russian briefing, but do you see English and German in the game?

If YES, the main thing here is 41 years old ....

I put PzKpfw IVG = 10 pieces so that it was easier for blue to withstand T-34 (although PzKpfw IVG of the second half is 42 years old)

and of course the Reds have NO in this mission T-34/43 years ...
There is KV-1C = 10 pieces ...

And yet, the game has maps of Moscow, Stalingrad, Kuban, Prokhorovka missions on these maps are semi-historical, as far as the game allows ... (you can look at the planes). Map Zarubovka, here is a “vinaigrette”, if it is clear what a vinaigrette is ...🥗 ;)
Airplanes are all plus two from Bodenplatte (P-47 and Sitfire 9, 109G14 and Fock A8) limited.
Everything... :pioneer:

PS   

 I started talking about TIGERS, on the cards they are more like a BONUS to the blue team, so that it is more interesting and ... In terms of historicity, they only have a place on one card (Prokhorovka ... thanks to the game developers ... although now only TEST), but Well, and on Zarubovke, because the "vinaigrette" ...

Edited by 63RUS_WorM

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Posted (edited)

IF I understand that right: You put in panzer IV so the germans are able to resist for a bit until they are out and we only have panzer III´s left, and you wanted to make it historical and have that mission take place in october 1941? Problem is no german tank in the game existed in 1941, we would need panzer III J or earlier then with short 50mm gun and Panzer II tanks and such, already there its completely unhistorical. So you removed the T-34 42 model due to it but it dont help us germans: Russians play with the normal T-34 anyways and never anything else, and the russian side will win with ease every time due to having way better tanks and we have panzer III´s as others here have said has no chance against T-34s.

and shall we be historical the russians would have bt-7s and T-26 and very few T-34s, most units had none.

So for making the matches more exciting and fun and even I suggest to enable the panzer IV to be free to use.

Edited by judgedeath3

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On 7/30/2019 at 4:22 AM, SCG_SchleiferGER said:

You got the second Tiger (mine, the one charging you through he woods), because I got overconfident in my turret face armor. You punched right through killing my gunner and I turned out to be a sitting duck. I could only try to angle and pray.

 

Have you tried the lower sides right above the tacks? There is ammo right behind and only 60 mm of armor protecting it. Should be nice fireworks.

You are right in stating that a Tiger, that knows where the enemy is, is almost unkillable, especially when using Mahlzeitpositions (angling the Tiger) .

 

I for one have to say that I prefer the IV over the VI. Faster rate of fire,  high road speed, high turret traverse. The only thing it lacks is armor.

 

  

 

If I see you, I can make you go away, when I don’t see you, I almost die every single time. So yeah, the Tiger can be almost unbeatable in some situations. When you’re used to that thick armor you really do t want to give it up 😅

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Just a bit frustrated when playing with Panzer IV when I face the T-34-42 model: even at 50 meters distance somehow my rounds dont penetrate the turret when using AP or APCR when in reality one shot would penetrate it like cheese I put in 3 rounds but nope, it turns to me and fires: Im dead 😕

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15 hours ago, judgedeath3 said:

Just a bit frustrated when playing with Panzer IV when I face the T-34-42 model: even at 50 meters distance somehow my rounds dont penetrate the turret when using AP or APCR when in reality one shot would penetrate it like cheese I put in 3 rounds but nope, it turns to me and fires: Im dead 😕

 

Yes. That is why I gave up TC ... At least until it's fully released. The DM is too inconsistent at the moment. Last time I played, I shot at a T34 from 100m in a PzIV 4 times before he even saw me and then 1 hit I was dead lol. The inconsistencies also happen with the Tiger ... In the SCG campaign, I managed to outflank 3 tigers and get in point blank range behibd them ... I shot one of them over 5 times to the back and with one hit I was gone. It feels like we are dealing with healthbars most of the times and the game completly ignores ranges and angles. I fell like there is a chance of ricochet that is accounted for randomly depending on the distance and not truly the angle as it should be. TC has huge potential but until it corrects the arcade DM, I'm afraid it will see its player base dwindle.

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Something I noticed with the Pz IV, apart from the very uncomfortable turning the turret to 12 o'clock, when changing position from gunner to commander, the Pz IV also lifts the maingun to driving/transport position, which leeds to not being able to see targets on the 12 o'clock, when looking through the front glass block in the commander cupola, because they are hidden behind the muzzle break. The Tiger surely, too, lifts the barrel, but with the cupola not being centered, it is no issue here.

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