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BlitzPig_EL

Halberstadt Performance, or lack thereof.

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I was quite taken aback by the lack of climb and level speed performance of the German two seater, even with the up rated engine.  I don't expect a German Bristol, but wow, is this thing a dog.

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Was the same in ROF. Perhaps that's why it was used primarily as a "ground attack"  aircraft.😉

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Yes, I remember it in RoF, but it's been so long since I've flown RoF that I was really surprised at it's poor performance.  Handles well otherwise though, kind of like fat Albatross.

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Considering it has the same engine as an Albatros (+ the uprated mid-1918 version), it performs remarkably well with a second person on board.

 

So long as you don't start adding weapon modifications to her, she flies exactly how you would expect an Albatros to, if you took one of its frontal Spandaus and turned it into a rear Parabellum. Trials were held at one point to have her join Albatros squadrons as a Bristol-like heavy fighter, but her performance was found lacking (165km/h, 5min to 1000m). Compared to RoF's DFW C.V (155km/h, 4min to 1000m), she's faster but climbs slower, giving rise to a very peculiar machine. Something quite close to the earlier Roland C.IIa (165km/h, 6min to 1000m), which was also equipped with a Parabellum in a similar arrangement, though initially without a forward firing Spandau.

 

I'm sure that somebody will be able to dig up a picture of a Halberstadt with a bomb rack, but her primary role as close ground support saw her equipped with belts of throwable grenades. Since we don't have ground troops in RoF (and likely not in FC either), it wouldn't make much sense to have them.

 

It's a great machine, though. It's not too difficult and very rewarding to fly. They were extremely effective when deployed in large numbers as part of battle squadrons (Schlachtstaffeln), so I hope we'll see a few more pilot/gunner teams emerge.

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1 hour ago, J5_Hellbender said:

I'm sure that somebody will be able to dig up a picture of a Halberstadt with a bomb rack, but her primary role as close ground support saw her equipped with belts of throwable grenades.

 

Yes, there is at least one photo in Windsock of a few operational CL.IIs fitted with a centerline bomb rack. And, for those who weren't around for Rise of Flight, the wing-mounted bomb racks were added to compensate for the fact that the gunner cannot throw said grenades.

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Posted (edited)

Halberstadt Cl.II was designed as escort fighter - cheap fighting two seater, ideally crewed by NCO pilot and gunner, that could escort precious recons without wasting better planes or crew. Turned out they only slowed the recons down more than they helped, but found new niche in ground attack.

Edited by J2_Trupobaw

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It fly like it cant climb. And if it stalls it selfrestore the flight. Its fm is not done I am sure

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8 hours ago, LuseKofte said:

It fly like it cant climb. And if it stalls it selfrestore the flight. Its fm is not done I am sure

 

It’ll be done in two weeks, be sure.

 

Seriously, it flies exactly as you would expect a light, underpowered two-seater with big wings and a very gentle stall. Its ground handling is better than it was in RoF, too, where it was the square-wheeled Queen of Wobble. The only remark I could possibly have about its FM, is that it should be possible to pick a finer pitch propeller to make her climb slightly better at the cost of top speed, or a coarser pitch prop to achieve the opposite. It would probably matter very little, either way.

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Posted (edited)

I do not expect much of it. But please try it out. 

It correct itself like a Cessna. Have not flown a haab, but I have flown Cessna. 

It was not ment as a critique , more a observation. I like it and are going to have a lot of fun with it. I simply expected a lot more instability like many of the rof plane had. Some of them was unrecoverable at a point. 

Point is I have no idea if it is wrong

Edited by LuseKofte

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6 hours ago, J5_Hellbender said:

 

It’ll be done in two weeks, be sure.

 

Seriously, it flies exactly as you would expect a light, underpowered two-seater with big wings and a very gentle stall. Its ground handling is better than it was in RoF, too, where it was the square-wheeled Queen of Wobble. The only remark I could possibly have about its FM, is that it should be possible to pick a finer pitch propeller to make her climb slightly better at the cost of top speed, or a coarser pitch prop to achieve the opposite. It would probably matter very little, either way.


Now that we have propeller pitch adjustment support in sim physics, I wish we could have several wooden props to select from as field mods :). 

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The Halb in RoF/FC is used as a "bomber" and her bomb load is way to big. It should be limited to 50 kg's in my opinion (sure, there are some pics with the bomb racks but those were rather unusual). Usually, the crew was taking grenades and few 12,5 kg PuW bombs and that's it. If you will fly this plane without bombs or with the 4x12,5 load, it will behave pretty nicely. However, it was replaced by a newer types in 1918, like Hannover CL.II/III or Halb CL.IV together with some armored 2-seaters.

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17 minutes ago, 1PL-Lucas-1Esk said:

The Halb in RoF/FC is used as a "bomber" and her bomb load is way to big. It should be limited to 50 kg's in my opinion (sure, there are some pics with the bomb racks but those were rather unusual). Usually, the crew was taking grenades and few 12,5 kg PuW bombs and that's it. If you will fly this plane without bombs or with the 4x12,5 load, it will behave pretty nicely. However, it was replaced by a newer types in 1918, like Hannover CL.II/III or Halb CL.IV together with some armored 2-seaters.

 

It's really up to mission builders to understand that this plane takes 20+ minutes to climb to 3000m and is really not designed as anything but a very light "bomber" or recon escort. Unless you see them flying in large numbers and at relatively low altitude, it's not really historical.

 

The Bristol, by comparison, was used in virtually any role. By the end of the war, Biffs were deployed to escort Camels, who would be carrying the bomb loads instead.

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14 minutes ago, J5_Hellbender said:

 

It's really up to mission builders to understand that this plane takes 20+ minutes to climb to 3000m and is really not designed as anything but a very light "bomber" or recon escort. Unless you see them flying in large numbers and at relatively low altitude, it's not really historical.

 

The Bristol, by comparison, was used in virtually any role. By the end of the war, Biffs were deployed to escort Camels, who would be carrying the bomb loads instead.

 

and is why some of us thought choosing it for FC1 ahead of the DFW was a marketing-led decision. The Halberstadt looks all fighty and mean, but wait till these guys have to use the plain one for a recon.

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6 hours ago, LuseKofte said:

Point is I have no idea if it is wrong

 

...but before this, you said you were sure its Flight Model is not finished. So, which is it?

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

...but before this, you said you were sure its Flight Model is not finished. So, which is it?

 

Well I think something missing based on expirience from Rof. Call it a slip of tongue. 

I hardly ever call on faulty fm. My reaction on this is stability. It simply correct itself. While in rof it did not. Nothing more. 

Odd thing the defensive attitude of yours some times. 

I believe we have not seen the end of the fixes 

Edited by LuseKofte

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6 hours ago, US103_Baer said:

 

and is why some of us thought choosing it for FC1 ahead of the DFW was a marketing-led decision. The Halberstadt looks all fighty and mean, but wait till these guys have to use the plain one for a recon.

 

It's true that the CL.II is not a machine well-suited for recon. To be fair, since we'll have the Arras map and a planeset centered around the 1918 Spring Offensive, I believe that it was the better choice, considering the only other options were the outdated DFW and the horribly outdated Roland. The creation of Schlastas equipped with CL types along with the arrival of the Fokker D.VII was the last real push for air victory by the Central powers. They'd already lost aerial dominance to the French and British (and soon to the Americans), but they could have still forced victory on the ground by offering pockets of air superiority and close ground support.

 

Of course if we'll see the typical Vintage Mission scenario where a lonely underpowered Halberstadt needs to go hang over a factory at 2000m, 10 miles inside enemy lines to take 10 photographs and hurry back, while a Bristol gets to do the same on the other side, people will understand that it's neither fun nor particularly accurate. Hopefully it will not come to that. And if it does, I suggest willfull disobedience. For German two-seaters to go far behind enemy trenches in 1918 would not have been a common occurence anymore.

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For a later war recon we could get those Rumpler with 285hp Maybach engines. According to McCudden, most of them received the new Maybach engine by January 1918, and, above 16.000 feet, they were just as fast as his SE5a and climbed better - hence why he looked for some high-compression pistons for his plane.

 

It could be a nice collector plane (I know). According to Wikipedia (I know), it would be a bit faster than the Halb at sea level, but it would maintain its performance at altitude (aparently 160km/h at 20.000 feet, while our Halb D.IIau goes at 144km/h at 16.000 feet with no bombs, for recon), being practically invulnerable above 18.000 feet.

 

Perhaps at 2/3K, the usual altitude for recons in-game, the difference for the Halb would be smaller, but I imagine it would climb better and have more punch to it.

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1 hour ago, J5_Hellbender said:

 

For German two-seaters to go far behind enemy trenches in 1918 would not have been a common occurence anymore.


The German two=seaters we have available for transplantation from RoF, anyway. For summer 1918 we need Rumplers C.VII.

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Think of it as being analogous to the Il-2 Sturmovik rather than a traditional recce/spotting 2-seater.  Even without infantry in the game, as long as there are artillery pieces and wagons etc close to the front lines it should be able to perform something close to it's historical late war, ground attack role.

 

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Yeah, it's up to mission builders now. Perhaps it will be the impulse to ditch the symmetric objectives, and have Germans concentrate on ground attack.

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