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Two seaters gunner accuracy

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Will the modders be able to come up with anything ?

Or is that code not able to be adjusted?

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4 hours ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

I had 15 mins in a Spad yesterday against the CL.II.

I concur starting with at least 600M if not 0.8 - 1.0K, slight umberella handle at the end keeping shots on target, dive away still at full speed.. with a little jigginess.

Never got hit sticking to that, did take some when I got impatient on subsequent attacks, i.e. not starting from the correct position and ending up too slow and too much behind the target. But that's probably as it should be.

The bot gunner does fire and score occasional hits from 900M+ out which gets a bit annoying. Not sure if ammo would be largely wasted like that irl..

 

S!

 

But then you are limited to just one way of attacking it (and still being hit at 900m+), and you need a fast plane for that. Stark and his squadron once turnfighted with 8 Bristols and he forced his Bristol to land. It was when they were still rotating the Dr1s in between the squadron, so he was flying either a Dr1 or an Albatros I suppose. Over here, he would be zapped in the first couple of seconds like a fly (no pun intended), especially against someone who flies and gun. And then, when we get Nieuports and Pups, or when people are attacking with Albies, Pfalzes or Dr1s, what then? 

 

I'm of the opinion that these models are fundamentally wrong since ROF.

 

And gunners fired warning shots at aircraft IRL, but I doubt that they would consistently hit anything at 900m or more (you said it so, occasional hits from 900m+).

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Also IRL only one bullet could be enough to incapacitate the gunner/pilot, right?  🤔

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5 minutes ago, J2_Jakob said:

Also IRL only one bullet could be enough to incapacitate the gunner/pilot, right?  🤔

Indeed.  One .303 British or 8mm Mauser hitting the gunner, or pilot, center of mass would create a fairly devastating wound, and would cause a tremendous loss of ability to do even simple actions, much less operate a weapon in the slipstream, if it didn't kill the crew member outright.

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Why does it appear that it's only me that thinks it's the 2 mm plywood that's the issue and that it's acting like some form of armoured plating ?  

 

I think the pilot is hit more often because he is always partially exposed while the gunner is often as not sitting down well encased in various bits of woodwork.

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Jumped into a gun today on J5 server and can confirm the above evidence when playing as a gunner. Was never wounded or killed. Pilot was almost always killed and when that happened it cut to external view for me and the gunner jumped. So there is no riding down anymore. 

 

There are  also other differences from RoF. When you "take the gun" it takes a second for the guns to start moving-syncd to standing animation. You also cant "stage" the guns anymore. They automatically go to six position when you come off them. I always staged them in a direction i anticipated an attack from-like high six after exiting a cloud, etc. Your head/view can also get crazy and inverted after a bit. And zooming in slows movement speed and all that, which someone mentioned. 

 

All this was non VR and using a mouse.

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After a bit more testing I have come to a slightly different conclusion:

 

Flying a Bristol and fighting a Halberstadt is extremely risky.

Your Bristol gunner doesn't hit anything at all, whereas the Halberstadt gunner will snipe you out of the skies at 1km+ distance (or 500m when the skill level is "low").

Like Otto mentioned, the only way to fight the Halberstadt at all is to attack it from way above, the best being above and upfront, and once you passed the Halb, pull up immediately and pull into his turn so you come out of the gunner's arc as quick as possible.

1 second within a Halberstadt gunners' arc, regardless where, regardless what deflection, regardless 10m behind or 1000m, will get you to eat his bullets.

Do that stunt two times and you're dead.

All in all, if you take time and strictly adhere to these absolutely unnatural tactics, and if there's no other enemy plane around, you can survive the fight.

In my past 10 attempts I scored 8 kills, however every time I went through the Halberstadt gunners' arc once for a split second and came out wounded.

I never ever survived the fight undamaged.

And that was on "normal" skill level for the Halberstadt...

 

Now the opposite: Flying the Halberstadt and fighting the Bristol.

When the Bristol pilot is an ace, you end up having trouble to keep up with the Bristol's performance.

That's the only trouble you will ever have though.

The player's AI buddy in the backseat of the Halberstadt isn't 10% as deadly as the AI-AI combo is, but at least he doesn't shoot at the moon but in the direction of the enemy plane, and occasionally even hits it - even though I never saw him killing the pilot, whereas in the opposite fight... well you know already.

The Bristol's gunner doesn't get you as long as you don't appear in his dead six +/- 10 degrees.

That area is strictly prohibited.

All others: Just fine. He won't get you.

So you've got plenty of time to plan the fight and down the Bristol.

My success rate from 10 attempts was 10/10 and I only got a fuel leak once when I tried the dead-six attack.

 

:drinks:

Mike

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Re: Tactics to kill 2-seaters: 

Two-Seaters are tough to kill alone. In FC, a lot more so. I used to come in at extreme Angles of Attack and saw their wings off with balloon guns in RoF, which isn't really viable anymore since wings are (thankfully) a lot tougher. However, aircraft are quicker to flame. I'd say the best option is to make a high attack and pour as much lead into the engine / fuel tank as possible, set the bugger on fire and get out of dodge before the gunner does the same to you...

 

...that being said, I typically won't attack 2-seaters on my own if I can help it...

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1 hour ago, US103_Larner said:

Re: Tactics to kill 2-seaters: 

Two-Seaters are tough to kill alone. In FC, a lot more so. I used to come in at extreme Angles of Attack and saw their wings off with balloon guns in RoF, which isn't really viable anymore since wings are (thankfully) a lot tougher. However, aircraft are quicker to flame. I'd say the best option is to make a high attack and pour as much lead into the engine / fuel tank as possible, set the bugger on fire and get out of dodge before the gunner does the same to you...

 

...that being said, I typically won't attack 2-seaters on my own if I can help it...

 

This seems right to me and also historically valid. Unfortunately the game does not model the element of surprise very well for the AI: I am sure many 2-seaters were downed in this way without ever firing a shot, the gunner being distracted by looking at the ground or blinded by the sun. I do not think this ever happens in the game unfortunately.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

It wasn't uncommon for two seaters to turn back and abandon their mission if they were unescorted and saw a patrol of fighters. Only bombing raids would mostly have escorts. All other mission types would get an escort either by chance encounter or few planned ones if available. Heck even fighters would turn back if they were outnumbered and outclassed and behind enemy lines. There were plenty of non combat engagements where a single shot wasn't fired more than combat ones. Unfortunately, only the combat ones are more prominent in books. Ultimately, it depended on the mission importance and offensive.

Edited by yaan98
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Posted (edited)
On 7/28/2019 at 8:09 PM, HagarTheHorrible said:

Why does it appear that it's only me that thinks it's the 2 mm plywood that's the issue and that it's acting like some form of armoured plating ?  

 

I have wondered the same...the fuselage seems to 'eat' bullets from some angles...

Edited by US103_Larner

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