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Developer Diary 227 - Discussion

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Ooops....missed that part about all being released at once. Oh well,, we have to wait boys and girls. 

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16 minutes ago, CSW_Hot_Dog said:

So next two months waiting to the next allied plane, it will be then almost a year after last one. Dont get me wrong, and dont want to be rude, but that is one hell of a dissapointment. Last information was June, or mayby little delayed in Jully. Dont understand, why one axis plane wasnt postponed to bring one allied plane earlier... Can imagine, that 262 was may be also hard task to implement into game...

 

None of us know what the internal pipeline looks like exactly or what constraints are put on the project. This is everything from art to programming and it brings in the sometimes difficult to predict human resources side of the equation. Software development typically is fraught with issues that can't be planned for and can only be risk mitigated and then managed when they crop up.

 

In all of that I'm very certain that the next plane being an Axis or Allied type comes up very little or never.

 

Plans change and every time they tell us their rough plans they tell us that they are subject to change. I think it gets taken literally a little too often.

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1 hour ago, Blitzen said:

I am completely sold on VR ( in particular Pimax5K if you want to know and I am REALLY looking forward to experiencing the view in the P-38! It promises to be impressive made more so in VR.

Re. The B-25 I will be first in line to “buy” it when & if it becomes available to be flyable.

I think that makes me second in line to "buy":good:.  Thank you BOX team for a great DD today and the Update a couple of days ago.:salute:

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, CSW_Hot_Dog said:

Yeah Herne, exactly, and thats the dissapointment.

 

Ah OK, TBH I think it is more likely that it panned out this way because it was the most efficient way for the Dev's to do it. From their point of view they need to try and deliver the product on time and on budget. 
The German examples apart from the 262, were likely easier to complete due to being mostly variants of things which came before them. 262 was important because game engine changes had to be made to account for higher critical mach.
Just a pure guess on my behalf, but from where I sit I am super impressed that all these aircraft may be ready for us to fly in around 8 weeks time. It has me Hyped because BoBP seems like it could be closer to release than I imagined.

 

Edit: Shamrock said it way better than I could ;)

Edited by ACG_Herne
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Great update  and while the planes look amazing  this was my favorite part ...

 

  • Improved AI maneuvering in a dogfight. Our new programmer is working on this (the recent formation keeping improvements are his work), but remember there is still a long way to go in this area.
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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, AHCol_Hogan said:

P-38 = Plane Porn

 

Thanks Devs.

 

~S

Appropriate. P-38 = Plane Porn. And your avatar is Bob Crane. 😁

Edited by Rjel
spelling

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25 minutes ago, CSW_Hot_Dog said:

So next two months waiting to the next allied plane, it will be then almost a year after last one. Dont get me wrong, and dont want to be rude, but that is one hell of a dissapointment. Last information was June, or mayby little delayed in Jully. Dont understand, why one axis plane wasnt postponed to bring one allied plane earlier... Can imagine, that 262 was may be also hard task to implement into game...

They probably started working on the 262 jet stuff a lot earlier anticipating it would be more difficult and wanting to give themselves more time. Then they ran into difficulties with the Tempest (very difficult to get high-def cockpit photos and stuff) and the 3D model and flight model for the P-51 is deceptively complex. Rather than artificially push back the 262 they finished it and pushed it out when it was ready. That's always been their policy, it goes out when its ready.

I suspect also that the frequent update schedule is a big time-suck for the team. A lot of updates have required hotfixes and support, which steals days from production work. So instead of trickling the bits out once every couple weeks they push it to one big update that they can then spend time supporting with some huge tasks already behind them. Frankly, the frequent updates are kind of a pain in the butt for players too...everyone has to update the game, deal with any issues arising, etc. Multiplayer servers have to apply the update and often reconfigure their missions, etc.
 

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I never "got" green day until just now

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Posted (edited)

thanks for the information. I suffer a great ignorance , when "Bodenplatte" finish, what's next?😁

Edited by namhee2

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4 minutes ago, namhee2 said:

thanks for the information. I suffer a great ignorance , when "Bodenplatte" finish, what's next?😁

not so fast

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6 minutes ago, namhee2 said:

thanks for the information. I suffer a great ignorance , when "Bodenplatte" finish, what's next?😁

Unfortunately we all suffer from that particular great ignorance.

(I actually suffer from several)

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1 hour ago, sevenless said:

 

Yes agree, however I still have hope that they don´t wait until end of september to release the P51.

 

One of the biggest tragedies of this century /s

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2 hours ago, RedKestrel said:

 

I see your point - I rarely attack buildings and other structures with cannons. But I disagree with the idea that the devs are going completely in the wrong direction. They're addressing long-standing community requests that will improve gameplay for many players. And not so long ago there were improvements to damage models for tanks and ground vehicles to make them more realistic and more satisfying for tank-killing, so its not like there has been no movement on ground pounding. Of course, Many people at the time asked "Why should I care about truck or tank damage models, I fly fighters! Devs should focus on increasing the view distance/AI/Pilot physiology!". 

 


 

And if anyone wants to see what a house being hit with 30mm cannon looks like, here it is. A crap ton of smoke obscuring the target, but nothing really falls down. And this is with a GAU-8, a significantly more powerful cannon than the 20 and 30mm cannons we see in-game. Content Warning, cuz there were probably people in that house having a real bad day.
 



All the pilot would see is the dust, smoke and fire from the hits before he zoomed away. And that's pretty much what we already see in game. 

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Those P38 shots are really making me second-guess my decision to not buy a 4k monitor during the Prime Day sales...

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Posted (edited)

This is fantastic!

 

Referring to Parallel Projection, and a small problem with IL-2 that has appeared with canted display headsets like Pimax and Index: As you are in the corresponding code-section right now, please take a look at a problem in IL-2's object culling. Wide FOV headsets with canted displays like Pimax and Index have a problem: The right side of the picture does not render objects in the last ~20°. So objects stop getting rendered while they are still in the right eye's right peripheral corner - too early.

123.png.f892e5e1c7c05b97112692da6bb7466c.png

This is because both headsets use canted displays. The object range pulls over the radiant from the left side of the left eye towards the right side of the left eye. Then it adds another FOV for the right eye. However, the 2 FOVs are offset, and that offset is missing in the center in IL-2's object culling calculation. As a result, the range of the offset is missing on the right side of the right eye. It is not something the headset manufacturers can fix, but a variable in the engine - a new deal, in which IL-2's engine needs adaptation.

 

Please ask your engineer to look into that, to offset where the culling starts on the left side of the right eye. To anyone interested, this is not per-se an IL-2 "bug", as there was no need for it before these two headsets hit the market. Maybe you already plan to include this into a Parallel Projection fix, that would be fantastic as well and help both Index and Pimax owners to better performance too.

 

 

As always,

big fan of your work and best regards!

 

Fenris

 

P.S. Love the view distance increase. So many were waiting for this, and great how you listen to what the community would like. And cannot wait for the P-51.

Edited by SCG_Fenris_Wolf
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  • Improved visibility distance of planes and ships. The main difficulty in the development of this feature was making the dynamic objects show at great distances without a steady stream of data reporting their position and orientation. Another important thing is to model the lighting of the airplane even at long range - we discarded the idea of having just black dots at these distances, where the visibility of an object is determined by the position of the sun, brightness and hue of the sky, haze, etc. All this is impossible to model having only a black dot. The distant planes flying at high altitudes will have contrails and ships will have visible wakes. It is also important to have more or less equal terms for owners of different monitors. Having completed all these tasks, we'll increase the maximum visibility distance for planes and ships from 10 to 100 km and the resulting visibility distance will realistically correspond to the lighting and weather conditions.

I have been waiting for this improvement for a long time, I am very happy that it will finally  will come!

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36 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

And if anyone wants to see what a house being hit with 30mm cannon looks like, here it is. A crap ton of smoke obscuring the target, but nothing really falls down. And this is with a GAU-8, a significantly more powerful cannon than the 20 and 30mm cannons we see in-game. Content Warning, cuz there were probably people in that house having a real bad day

 

All the pilot would see is the dust, smoke and fire from the hits before he zoomed away. And that's pretty much what we already see in game. 

 

Well, use your imagination then. Not every building in WW2 was a shed in the middle of desert. They could physically model so many things in IL2Sturmovik if they chose to put it on top of their priority list, like for example:

1) observation posts legs cutoff by gunfire resulting in them realistically toppling over

2) anti-air spotlights blinded and shot-off from their mooring, slowly rolling away

3) alarm bells falling from building after nearby bomb destroyed the tower they were mounted on top of

4) hangar doors hinges destroyed causing them to fall over on top of aircraft inside which explodes causing secondary explosions

5) Fences, wooden sheds etc: (lots of wood in WW2) shot off realistically piece by piece

That's just off the top of my head. There is more than enough visual and physical mayhem that can be caused by gunfire, some only by bombs, but you have observation and/or slow-flying planes to properly observe the damage. This is not DCS, WW2 was close and personal on the ground, so I think it is a wasted opportunity for developers not to put it higher on their priority list. And as a bonus it would entice more traditional gamers into the genre.

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Great DD, especially for view distance increase. Massive thumbs up gents for listening the community.

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When will the bug of planes flying in front of a cloud be adjusted?

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I must admit, the tempest is by far the next feature of the game I am least interested in. However, I feel compelled to mention a couple things I noticed looking at the WIP pictures.

 

1) The gun reticle is projected directly on the front glass, a feature that I'm sure is no surprise to anyone eagerly awaiting the Tempest, but it caught my eye.

 

2) I remember the engine power, and the level of boost being a highly contested topic. Well, the picture is work in progress, and maybe all tempests had a universal boost gauge (I really wouldn't know), but I see a red line that goes all the way to 12lbs of boost. Maybe a couple of people will find that interesting.

 

It looks to me like the Tempest might be shaping up to be an absolute monster in it's own right.

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All looks awesome, roll on September.:drinks:

 

 

Wishing you all the very best, Pete.:biggrin:

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1 hour ago, WheelwrightPL said:

 

Well, use your imagination then. Not every building in WW2 was a shed in the middle of desert. They could physically model so many things in IL2Sturmovik if they chose to put it on top of their priority list, like for example:

1) observation posts legs cutoff by gunfire resulting in them realistically toppling over

2) anti-air spotlights blinded and shot-off from their mooring, slowly rolling away

3) alarm bells falling from building after nearby bomb destroyed the tower they were mounted on top of

4) hangar doors hinges destroyed causing them to fall over on top of aircraft inside which explodes causing secondary explosions

5) Fences, wooden sheds etc: (lots of wood in WW2) shot off realistically piece by piece

That's just off the top of my head. There is more than enough visual and physical mayhem that can be caused by gunfire, some only by bombs, but you have observation and/or slow-flying planes to properly observe the damage. This is not DCS, WW2 was close and personal on the ground, so I think it is a wasted opportunity for developers not to put it higher on their priority list. And as a bonus it would entice more traditional gamers into the genre.

 

 

Look, in a perfect world where there was a 200 person dev team with a multi million dollar budget - sure. These features would be awesome. Your understanding of the physics of bullets vs. "x-object" might be a bit misguided though.

 

A major point here - I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of players in this genre are NOT interested in mainstream title features - we are interested in *this* niche genre. This niche genre has a different priority list than you seem to imagine. I would suggest that if destructible environments, and claustrophobic draw distances are your thing perhaps you should return to BF-V.

 

Also, aircraft would not automatically explode if a damn hanger door fell on it.

 

 

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100km view distances would fit into the pacific expansion very nicely.  😉

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6 hours ago, BlackHellHound1 said:

Really nice DD. Some great information and some awesome new features.


However,... let me get this straight.
At the moment we plan to make all these four planes available to you in the next huge update at the end of September
It sound like some of the new content (planes) will be tested and ready very soon (2-4 weeks is my guess?). But you plan to hold these back untill the end of september for a single large update? Why not release them earlier when they are tested and ready? 

 

BlackHellHound1

:salute:

 

I've had this discussion with Jason in the distant past. I was actually pro holding back an aircraft for a few weeks at the time. Unless something has changed in their business model there is not and will not be any holding back of content. The team cannot afford to do that for a laundry list of reasons. I think what we should take from this statement is that the content is pacing to be ready at nearly all the same time and releasing it together makes more sense than multiple mini releases in a very short period of time.

 

I do not speak for the team in any way. Just based upon history and reading between the lines a bit.

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4 hours ago, sevenless said:

 

Yes agree, however I still have hope that they don´t wait until end of september to release the P51.

 

It's done when it's done.  Rushed work is almost inevitably bad and working towards dates in software is a concept that is rapidly becoming discredited.  You work hard and release as soon as possible, but don't panic and cut corners to make a date.

 

Per the P-51, I am guessing that the FM is presenting some challenges.  Looks like a P-38 and Tempest are not too far out.

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5 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

It's done when it's done.  Rushed work is almost inevitably bad and working towards dates in software is a concept that is rapidly becoming discredited.  You work hard and release as soon as possible, but don't panic and cut corners to make a date.

 

Per the P-51, I am guessing that the FM is presenting some challenges.  Looks like a P-38 and Tempest are not too far out.

 

Pat I think I shall clarify. You are 100% correct of course. What I meant is that I hope they don´t wait with release of the finished P-51 just for the sake of releasing a three plane bundle end of september. I still hope that they get the plane out when it is ready and when this is before september I hope they do not hold it back.

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7 minutes ago, WheelwrightPL said:

 

Well, use your imagination then. Not every building in WW2 was a shed in the middle of desert. They could physically model so many things in IL2Sturmovik if they chose to put it on top of their priority list, like for example:

1) observation posts legs cutoff by gunfire resulting in them realistically toppling over

2) anti-air spotlights blinded and shot-off from their mooring, slowly rolling away

3) alarm bells falling from building after nearby bomb destroyed the tower they were mounted on top of

4) hangar doors hinges destroyed causing them to fall over on top of aircraft inside which explodes causing secondary explosions

5) Fences, wooden sheds etc: (lots of wood in WW2) shot off realistically piece by piece

That's just off the top of my head. There is more than enough visual and physical mayhem that can be caused by gunfire, some only by bombs, but you have observation and/or slow-flying planes to properly observe the damage. This is not DCS, WW2 was close and personal on the ground, so I think it is a wasted opportunity for developers not to put it higher on their priority list. And as a bonus it would entice more traditional gamers into the genre.


What you're really asking for here is a detailed damage model for every object in the game, and realistic physics and animations dynamically applied depending on what, where and with what it has been hit. Basically, the current aircraft DM's applied to everything (actually, I think it would be more complex than the current aircraft DMs). 

I'm sorry, I don't think that's feasible. The performance hit when ground attack was going on would be huge.






 

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The 51 had a..trick wing profile. Not necessarily due to it being laminar flow, but it was very low drag which is great for speed but also caused very tricky snap stall wing drop properties which I imagine can be hard to code

 

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great news - but how about a RAF or USAAF pilot for the P-39, P-40, Spitfire MkV ??? :)

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27 minutes ago, sevenless said:

 

Pat I think I shall clarify. You are 100% correct of course. What I meant is that I hope they don´t wait with release of the finished P-51 just for the sake of releasing a three plane bundle end of september. I still hope that they get the plane out when it is ready and when this is before september I hope they do not hold it back.

 

OK, thanks for clarifying.  If anything it looks like the other two are well ahead of the P-51, so it would be the P-38 and Tempest waiting on the P-51 and not vice versa.  Having said that it is not really their history to do things that way.  They might wait a little bit if something is close but they generally do not hold back with content for long.

 

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3 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

OK, thanks for clarifying.  If anything it looks like the other two are well ahead of the P-51, so it would be the P-38 and Tempest waiting on the P-51 and not vice versa.  Having said that it is not really their history to do things that way.  They might wait a little bit if something is close but they generally do not hold back with content for long.

 

 

Would be perfectly fine for me to see maybe the Tempest or P-38 even before the P-51. I love all of them 😉

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Glad to hear spotting ships in the Pacific will be much more realistic! ;)

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Lot of great news and visuals. The two standouts for me:

  1. Improved visibility distance of planes and ships to 100km. Hopefully some improvement in building vis distances  in the future.
  2. Improved AI maneuvering in a dogfight.  And great to see an apparently dedicated AI programmer.

It'll be interesting to see how the physiology implementation changes multiplayer.

 

Good times ahead. Thanks Devs and Team for your amazing skills and dedication.

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Most exciting part about this DD is the view distance increase to 100km (wow) and the pilot physiology, these two features will improve the game by a large margin imo and I can't wait to see them added.

 

P-38 is also looking very nice and I can't wait to fly it. 

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1 hour ago, RedKestrel said:


What you're really asking for here is a detailed damage model for every object in the game, and realistic physics and animations dynamically applied depending on what, where and with what it has been hit. Basically, the current aircraft DM's applied to everything (actually, I think it would be more complex than the current aircraft DMs). 

I'm sorry, I don't think that's feasible. The performance hit when ground attack was going on would be huge.
 

 

You nailed it. He was asking for all those things AND no performance degradation without explicitly stating it because that would make him look too demanding. 

We can ask for the world, but everything comes at a cost.

 

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Sounds really amazing. The birds look fantastic and I literally cannot wait for all the mentioned improvements to the game engine. You guys rock 👍

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1 minute ago, FMF-Tommy544 said:

Sounds really amazing. The birds look fantastic and I literally cannot wait for all the mentioned improvements to the game engine. You guys rock 👍

 

Cannot wait too. It will be amazing to peer over the horizon every so often to see if this bombers-armada which was spotted 100 km away already arrived. It will take them 15 minutes (at 400km/h), so I might as well put on some extra-strong coffee. Or maybe go play some career missions, many of which are shorter than that. Call me insane or "wrongheaded", but I would prefer ground-control giving me updates on the bomber formation including ETA, so I don't have to fixate on them while some Russian fighter is shooting me down. More situational awareness for a player, much less coding effort for the developer, but that's just my opinion.

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p38 is.. well..  TITS!!!!!!

 

man.. i haven't been that excited in a while!

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