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pa4tim

How not to crash the P47 ?

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I feel a bit stupid because there is one plane I can not even keep in the air without enemies.

 

As soon as I only think about making a turn smaller as a max loaded B29, the bloody thing rolls to the right and drops out of the sky.  I know I must adapt my way of flying because I fly most of the time only my spitfire  IX with clipped wings and the old engine (because I like making very tight turns at very low altitude and I fly it like it is a rally car) 

 

But I like the looks and cockpit of the P47 very much and I am also a P51 fan so I want to be ready for flying USA planes it if it comes . I keep it in continues mode, make only (what I think are) big turns.  It feels like it has a lot of over-steer, the slip-ball rolls often at it max. In my Spit I often use that to out-brake the enemy on my tail. I seldom loose control.

Not the P47,  I do not even try that but it does it all the time, if I am lucky it reacts and I get it under control again but most times it just drops on its side and I can not get it up again. I feels the same as a plane that misses 1 aileron. After that it goes straight down. 

 

But it must be me, a lot of people seem to like it. I am rather green but this is the only plane I have I absolute can not fly. As a reference, I feel also confident in the BF109, I love the i16, love the Bf110 (I fly those like the Spit but a bit less agressive) and Bf129 but the latter only for ground attacks. I never do boom and zooms and only play SP.

 

What way must I fly the P47  (only dive bombing, turn fighting, agressive, with silk pilot gloves etc. ) and in what for configuration for most stability ? 

 

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I'll let someone else answer to this as I don't have much experience with the p47. But I will say right away that, according to what I read many times in this forum, the p47's flight model currently needs much improvement. I mean, some people say it is a joy to dogfight with providing you fight with your flaps down, which to me is just surreal. I tried to like it when it came out but for now I kinda "shelved" it, planning to come back to it further down the road. 

 

In all other respects it is awesome though. With a little FM tweaks it will be trully perfect.

Edited by danielprates

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The P47 s a high altitude B&Z fighter.  If you use it as a low altitude turn fighter you can see the problem.  Of course in RL it was used low extensively so real pilots had to deal with using it in an area where it's air to air capabilities were not optimized.  I imagine that overwhelming numbers and teamwork helped.

 

In game, especially against AI, try to gain altitude.  Convert the altitude to speed and the speed back to altitude - i.e. B&Z.  When you start to run out leave before it's too late.  Fortunately for you the AI is terrible at energy management so getting above it is not that hard.  Learn vertical maneuvers like yo-yos and half loops.  Same as turning except up and down vs right and left :) 

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27 minutes ago, pa4tim said:

(because I like making very tight turns at very low altitude and I fly it like it is a rally car) 

 

There's your problem.

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You can change direction quickly in the P47 but it is a big, heavy aircraft. You have to maintain speed and energy. Instead of pulling high g’s in a horizontal turn, a chandelle works better. ( pull up 45 degrees, roll right or left, pull through the turn and gain speed on the way down and straighten out ). Adding a bit of flaps may be overdone at the moment, but it will give you enough lift to stay in the air in a tight turn for now.

Edited by Jaegermeister

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1 hour ago, pa4tim said:

I keep it in continues mode, make only (what I think are) big turns.

 

I watched a video from maxtv and he tells it is  easy to fly, stable and fast. But talks mostly talks about it as the ground attacker/dive bomber. 

6 minutes ago, Jaegermeister said:

You can change direction quickly in the P47 but it is a big, heavy aircraft. You have to maintain speed and energy. Instead of pulling high g’s in a horizontal turn, a chandelle works better. ( pull up 45 degrees, roll right or left, pull through the turn and gain speed on the way down and straighten out ). Adding a bit of flaps may be overdone at the moment, but it will give you enough lift to stay in the air in a tight turn for now.

Edited 1 minute ago by Jaegermeister

 

Thanks, I will try that. I do not mind using flaps so I will try that too. 

 I looked it up, it is indeed a big-bird. I thought most fighters were about the same size 

Edited by pa4tim

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A good example of the weight and size would be to compare it to the P-40 or Spit. Both had a relative Wingspan of 37 Ft or about 11.25 M. Both Around 6000 to 6500 Lbs in weight. the P-47's wing span reached almost 41 Ft or 12.5 M, and it had an empty weight of 10,000 a gross weight of 12,000. Its definitely a big boy. Which is why it excels in a dive.

 

If the P-47 isnt your speed id recommend trying the P-40 as its still heavy and not as fast but its better in a climb and its best altitude is 9,000 Ft or Just about 3k M. Much less than 21,000 Ft for the P-47 

Edited by TheOldCrow

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You have my problem when I first started flying BNZ planes. Apply lots of rudder and if you hear wind ease up on turning. Once you get used to it though its way better than TNB. more fun to hit and run and safer.

Edited by Gamington

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BnZ/Energy tactics are your friend when flying the P-47. It will struggle down low but once you're above 10K it gets better. Don't try turn fighting in it and don't use flaps to out turn anyone, you may be able to do it in game but this isn't realistic in any way.

 

Do not fly it like a Spitfire, that'll just get you killed.

Interesting mock combat between Johnson in his P-47 vs Spitfire

What Johnson describes is a good way to practice flying the Jug.

Spoiler

"The following episode, found in Thunderbolt! by the World War II USAAF ace Robert S. Johnson, is one of the best examples available of the use of energy tactics (diving extension/pitch-back) to defeat a double-superior opponent. The encounter described is a mock combat engagement over England between Johnson (P-47C) and an unidentified RAF pilot in a new Spitfire IX. the Spitfire had about a 25 percent better power loading and nearly a 25 percent lower wing loading. The Thunderbolt's only performance advantages were faster top speed, greater acceleration in a dive (because of the P-47's heavier weight and higher density), and better roll performance.

I opened the throttle full and the Thunderbolt forged ahead. A moment later exhaust smoke poured from the Spit as the pilot came after me. He couldn't make it; the big Jug had a definite speed advantage. I grinned happily; I'd heard so much about this airplane that I really wanted to show the Thunderbolt to her pilot. The Jug kept pulling away from the Spitfire; suddenly I hauled back on the stick and lifted the nose. The Thunderbolt zoomed upward, soaring into the cloud-flecked sky. I looked out and back; the Spit was straining to match me, and barely able to hold his position.

But my advantage was only the zoom--once in steady climb, he had me. I gaped as smoke poured from the exhausts and the Spitfire shot past me as if I were standing still. Could that plane CLIMB! He tore upward in a climb I couldn't match with the Jug. Now it was his turn; the broad elliptical wings rolled, swung around, and the Spit screamed in, hell-bent on chewing me up.

This was going to be fun. I knew he could turn inside the heavy Thunderbolt; if I attempted to hold a tight turn, the Spitfire would slip right inside me. I knew also, that he could easily outclimb my fighter. I stayed out of those sucker traps. First rule in this kind of fight: don't fight the way your opponent fights best. No sharp turns; don't climb; keep him at your own level.

We were at 5,000 feet, the Spitfire skidding around hard and coming in on my tail. No use turning; he'd whip right inside me as if I were a truck loaded with cement, and snap out in firing position. Well, I had a few tricks too. The P-47 was faster, and I threw the ship into a roll. Right here I had him. The Jug could outroll any plane in the air, bar none. With my speed, roll was my only advantage, and I made full use of the manner in which the Thunderbolt could roll. I kicked the Jug into a wicked left roll, horizon spinning crazily, once, twice, into a third. As he turned to the left to follow, I tramped down on the right rudder, banged the stick over to the right. Around and around we went, left, right, left, right. I could whip through better than two rolls before the Spitfire even completed his first. And this killed his ability to turn inside me. I refused to turn. Every time he tried to follow me in a roll, I flashed away to the opposite side, opening the gap between our planes.

Then I played the trump. The Spitfire was clawing wildly through the air, trying to follow me in a roll, when I dropped the nose. The Thunderbolt howled and ran for earth. Barely had the Spitfire started to follow--and I was a long way ahead of him by now--when I jerked back on the stick and threw the Jug into a zoom climb. In a straight or climbing turn, the British ship had the advantage. But coming out of a dive, there's not a British or German fighter than can come close to a Thunderbolt rushing upward in a zoom. Before the Spit pilot knew what had happened, I was high above him, and the Thunderbolt hammering around. And that was it--in the next few moments the Spitfire flier was amazed to see a less-maneuverable slower-climbing Thunderbolt rushing straight at him, eight guns pointing at his cockpit." (Fighter Combat, Robert Shaw)

 

Basically Dive, Zoom and Roll is your friend for the most part when flying the Jug

 

EDIT: Also, make sure to use proper rudder when doing maneuvers. The P-47 is unstable in yaw so you need to learn to be coordinated when doing maneuvers of any kind.

Edited by Legioneod

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Im Sick of this.

 

Any aircraft is good if u get it in its power band!

 

Climb for a bit and it will become a "good plane"!

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23 minutes ago, AeroAce said:

Im Sick of this.

 

Any aircraft is good if u get it in its power band!

 

Climb for a bit and it will become a "good plane"!

He was asking for advise, chill out.

You still have to know how do do the maneuvers and fly it to it's strengths in order for it to do well, sometimes the best way to find those things out is to ask about it.

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1 minute ago, Legioneod said:

He was asking for advise, chill out.

You still have to know how do do the maneuvers and fly it to it's strengths in order for it to do well, sometimes the best way to find those things out is to ask about it.

 

Nope People need to learn that getting some Alt and speed will do them some good!!

on normal server people just think that they SHOULD be able to turn ..... GROW UP

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1 minute ago, AeroAce said:

 

Nope People need to learn that getting some Alt and speed will do them some good!!

on normal server people just think that they SHOULD be able to turn ..... GROW UP

Getting Alt and Speed will only get you so far, you need to learn how the aircraft flys best. If you don't know the aircrafts strengths you'll never be very good in it.

He was asking advise for how best to fly it since he is new to the P-47, he wasn't saying the P-47 was "bad".

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Aero Ace, new people to flight simulation often have no knowledge of how works an airplane other than a spinning thing on the front makes them go.  Getting into the deeper subjects of air combat maneuvering, and all that entails is something that many have no idea about.  If we want to keep fresh blood coming in to combat flight siming we have to mentor those who are asking for help and help them grow.  Heaven knows the genre is too small to run them off when they come asking for help.

Edited by BlitzPig_EL
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7 hours ago, pa4tim said:

I feel a bit stupid... because I fly it like it is a rally car) 

 

 

The only words in your post that matter, and illustrates your problem I think.

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6 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

The only words in your post that matter, and illustrates your problem I think.

To make things clear, the only plane I fly like a rally car is the Spitfire. And this only if I have something like a Yak1 on my 6.  You combine two sentences partly that are talking about two different planes. I probably write to much. 

 

I stated this in my TS (it =  P47) :

12 hours ago, pa4tim said:

I keep it in continues mode, make only (what I think are) big turns.

 

 

12 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

a chandelle works better. ( pull up 45 degrees, roll right or left, pull through the turn and gain speed on the way down and straighten out

 I spend an hour or so without enemies only trying this manoeuvre over and over and this helped a lot. Thanks for the advise.

Am I correct a Chandell  is also used for making a 180 degrees turn before landing ?  (I can get everything in the air but landing is still a struggle (for most getting the plane at the begin of the strip at the right hight, speed and angle.)

 

11 hours ago, Gamington said:

Apply lots of rudder and if you hear wind ease up on turning. Once you get used to it though its way better than TNB. more fun to hit and run and safer.

I already am used to listen to wind and shaking to get a warning I am close to stalling . I also have the camera shaking option on for this too. The Spit warns me this way but does not really punish me. The same for the Fb109. The FW190 is a bit less forgiving but most times I still can anticipate that if it starts to go wrong. In the P47 I am then already to late. 

I think you are right, if I apply max rudder immediate on the first signs (listening to the wind) it seems to go better. Flaps work also sometimes but I do not know if they will survive this kind of use in real life. Some real planes seem to auto-retrack due to weak controls. 
 

And keeping more altitude also works. Turns out it is not very difficult to get it out of a spin but it needs more height (=time) . I close throttle, apply rudder, wait until it stops spinning, apply throttle to get some speed and control and then pull up. The Spit needs less time and there I can use the throttle to counter unwanted and wanted rolls. Now I know the P47 is so heavy I better understand his behaviour. I have done some test and it reacts rather docile on fast throttle changes. More rudder seems to work well. 

 

10 hours ago, Legioneod said:

BnZ/Energy tactics are your friend when flying the P-47. It will struggle down low but once you're above 10K it gets better. Don't try turn fighting in it and don't use flaps to out turn anyone, you may be able to do it in game but this isn't realistic in any way.

 

Do not fly it like a Spitfire, that'll just get you killed.

Interesting mock combat between Johnson in his P-47 vs Spitfire

What Johnson describes is a good way to practice flying the Jug.

  Reveal hidden contents

"The following episode, found in Thunderbolt! by the World War II USAAF ace Robert S. Johnson, is one of the best examples available of the use of energy tactics (diving extension/pitch-back) to defeat a double-superior opponent. The encounter described is a mock combat engagement over England between Johnson (P-47C) and an unidentified RAF pilot in a new Spitfire IX. the Spitfire had about a 25 percent better power loading and nearly a 25 percent lower wing loading. The Thunderbolt's only performance advantages were faster top speed, greater acceleration in a dive (because of the P-47's heavier weight and higher density), and better roll performance.

I opened the throttle full and the Thunderbolt forged ahead. A moment later exhaust smoke poured from the Spit as the pilot came after me. He couldn't make it; the big Jug had a definite speed advantage. I grinned happily; I'd heard so much about this airplane that I really wanted to show the Thunderbolt to her pilot. The Jug kept pulling away from the Spitfire; suddenly I hauled back on the stick and lifted the nose. The Thunderbolt zoomed upward, soaring into the cloud-flecked sky. I looked out and back; the Spit was straining to match me, and barely able to hold his position.

But my advantage was only the zoom--once in steady climb, he had me. I gaped as smoke poured from the exhausts and the Spitfire shot past me as if I were standing still. Could that plane CLIMB! He tore upward in a climb I couldn't match with the Jug. Now it was his turn; the broad elliptical wings rolled, swung around, and the Spit screamed in, hell-bent on chewing me up.

This was going to be fun. I knew he could turn inside the heavy Thunderbolt; if I attempted to hold a tight turn, the Spitfire would slip right inside me. I knew also, that he could easily outclimb my fighter. I stayed out of those sucker traps. First rule in this kind of fight: don't fight the way your opponent fights best. No sharp turns; don't climb; keep him at your own level.

We were at 5,000 feet, the Spitfire skidding around hard and coming in on my tail. No use turning; he'd whip right inside me as if I were a truck loaded with cement, and snap out in firing position. Well, I had a few tricks too. The P-47 was faster, and I threw the ship into a roll. Right here I had him. The Jug could outroll any plane in the air, bar none. With my speed, roll was my only advantage, and I made full use of the manner in which the Thunderbolt could roll. I kicked the Jug into a wicked left roll, horizon spinning crazily, once, twice, into a third. As he turned to the left to follow, I tramped down on the right rudder, banged the stick over to the right. Around and around we went, left, right, left, right. I could whip through better than two rolls before the Spitfire even completed his first. And this killed his ability to turn inside me. I refused to turn. Every time he tried to follow me in a roll, I flashed away to the opposite side, opening the gap between our planes.

Then I played the trump. The Spitfire was clawing wildly through the air, trying to follow me in a roll, when I dropped the nose. The Thunderbolt howled and ran for earth. Barely had the Spitfire started to follow--and I was a long way ahead of him by now--when I jerked back on the stick and threw the Jug into a zoom climb. In a straight or climbing turn, the British ship had the advantage. But coming out of a dive, there's not a British or German fighter than can come close to a Thunderbolt rushing upward in a zoom. Before the Spit pilot knew what had happened, I was high above him, and the Thunderbolt hammering around. And that was it--in the next few moments the Spitfire flier was amazed to see a less-maneuverable slower-climbing Thunderbolt rushing straight at him, eight guns pointing at his cockpit." (Fighter Combat, Robert Shaw)

 

Basically Dive, Zoom and Roll is your friend for the most part when flying the Jug

 

EDIT: Also, make sure to use proper rudder when doing maneuvers. The P-47 is unstable in yaw so you need to learn to be coordinated when doing maneuvers of any kind.

 

The story of Johnson was great. And I exactly felt what he described when I struggled against the Bf109.  I had no idea they did BnZ in real. I thought it was just an arcade thing like sidescraping a tank in WoT so I did not even want to try it up to now . I also did not know there are books like that. Interesting. Thanks for the quote. It helped to open my mind. 

 

OK, I know now turn fighting is for newbies but I like it so much. I often take my Spit for a fly without enemies, flying like 10m above the deck at full speed and then f.i. follow a river.  Or just follow an AI asomething like a plane length behind him.

And I love making ground attacks that way. Fly very low, shoot a tank in the flank, or trow a bomb straight in his flank and then "hop" over the target. I learned that is not the best strategie for trains if they blow up under you....

 

I never tried BnZ but I must say, I like the shooting part of it, it is more easy to hit your target. The first time I dived to a bf109, shot one salvo and he more or less exploded (to be honest, that was probably pure luck but it was fun) The climbing is difficult (not to end in a loop or sideways. I now pull upto the sun while looking at the instruments to get a feel for it. 

 

Somebody forgot to tell my AI in the Bf109 they are not good in energy retention and BnZ.  Those things outclimb the P47 without any problem.  I also had a few trials where they go straight up while spraying their MGs up as soon as I dive into them and kill my engine. And although I did my best to not chase and only BnZ  they often found a way to still get on my tail. 

 

I also tried it in my Spit and in a FW190 and Bf109 and there it was a bit more easy (climbing) The biggest problem I have with the P47 is climbing. It seems to be very important to stop climbing a save time before it reaches a stall speed. The others stall a bit and I mis-use that to fast level out. The P47 just stops abrupt, and drops down like a brick. But if it does and if I have height enough I can get it out of a spin rather easy. I can force a Spit to do (probably not-to-realistic) things. The P47 seems to asks a bit more finesse and although I still have troubles with it, I can see it will be a potent plane if used the right way. It is just not very forgiving for a green pilot. 

 

I just watched a video about the P47 from sherrif sim shack about power management. He talks a bout switching on the turbo-charger. I must look that up a bit more. I only fly manual control in average difficulty mode. I knew it has a turbo too but I assumed wrong it was auto-on like in a car. Not that I must manually control it. I am new to planes but I know more as enough about engines to learn that part on my own. It looks like plane controls are sometimes different. I found a very nice video about fuel management in planes.

 

 

 

 

 

10 hours ago, AeroAce said:

Nope People need to learn that getting some Alt and speed will do them some good!!

on normal server people just think that they SHOULD be able to turn ..... GROW UP

 

How should I learn without asking advise ? What has a server to do with SP ? People with this attitude  in WoT and WT are the reason I nowadays only play SP so I am not causing  frustration to other players and ruin their game while learning. Bots do not complain. (I only played tanks in the past)

I asked a question about bots in an other topic. What I there learned from forum members helped me a lot.  

 

Thank you to every body. I started with crashing even without enemies but at least I now know how I should use it the right way and I will practice that. 

 

 

 

Edited by pa4tim
correction
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6 hours ago, pa4tim said:

Somebody forgot to tell my AI in the Bf109 they are not good in energy retention and BnZ.  Those things outclimb the P47 without any problem.  I also had a few trials where they go straight up while spraying their MGs up as soon as I dive into them and kill my engine. And although I did my best to not chase and only BnZ  they often found a way to still get on my tail. 

 

We are talking a different type of climbing because where the 109 excels is climbing steeply away at medium speeds from level flight while Johnson was talking about the P47s ability to gain a lot of speed in a dive then turn that speed back into altitude in a steep climb.   The 109 is not bad and diving and zooming back up but it wont remain controllable at the sort of dive speeds the P47 is happy with and wont hold its speed so long when climbing up so will have to level out sooner.  The FW190 gives a third behaviour as it dives very well but does not turn that speed back into altitude well in a steep climb. It does hold its speed well if it stays level after the dive or makes a gentler climb though.

Bottom line:- The P47 is best used at high altitudes with turbo engaged (the engine works best up there) and kept fast. If attacking lower aircraft you make as straight an attack as possible then use the speed you gained to get back up again.   Avoid the temptation to turn after an enemy that sees you coming and starts turning and definitely avoid continuous turn fighting as even if you use flaps and win the fight, you will be left slow and the P47 does not accelerate well so you will be vulnerable to faster/higher enemies for a long time while you try to regain a useful speed and regain some altitude. If you need to turn to avoid an attacker then roll and use a little elevator  (eg scissors) but not enough to bleed too much speed.  It takes patience to get kills in a P47 and stay alive at the same time because you need to pick your fights carefully and be willing to abandon your attack and climb away as soon as it starts going wrong.  Personally I find it hard to be that patient if I am not lucky enough to find willing victims who don't check their six enough 🙂

Edited by 56RAF_Roblex

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I am afraid I am new at maneuvers too. I fly a lot without enemies just to practice plane control and practice ground strikes. 

 

Upto now I have not practiced or looked up official manoeuvres. Most tutorials about flying and how a plane works (that is probably the Engineer in me)  on you tube I watch are about real planes. I have never flown a real plane, I am afraid of flying so it is a bit bizar I like this sim

I do two things to escape if someone is on my tail.  I think they probably are stupid  but they work for me. I roll 180 degrees and then dive in a half loop and end in a reversed direction. The other I go up in a half loop, after 180 degrees I roll 180 degrees and then I am also reversed.

 

I forgot to tell, the P47 becomes a lot more controllable with around 400 liter of fuel

 

I first want to be able to fully control the plane for the normal stuff and also practice situational awareness. And except for the landing part it goes in the right direction. 

Is there an order in learning manoeuvres ? 

Edited by pa4tim

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1 hour ago, pa4tim said:

 

I do two things to escape if someone is on my tail.  I think they probably are stupid  but they work for me. I roll 180 degrees and then dive in a half loop and end in a reversed direction. The other I go up in a half loop, after 180 degrees I roll 180 degrees and then I am also reversed.

 

And except for the landing part it goes in the right direction. 

Is there an order in learning manoeuvres ? 

 

The 1st maneuver you mention is called a “split s”

the 2nd is called an “Immelmann”

They were both widely used since the beginning of aerobatics in WWI and certainly not stupid in any way. The split s was the standard defensive escape maneuver for the German fighters during the Battle of Britain when attacked by Spitfires.

 

most people learn to take off and land first out of necessity. In real life it would be take off first, 90 degrees turns, and then landing. 😉

 

you should watch some of Requiems tutorials on YouTube, because he goes over throttle settings, rpm and speeds for taking off and landing each aircraft.

 

To land, you need to first reduce power to your landing setting. Fly over the field into the wind at about 1000 feet and slow down. After passing the end of the runway, turn either direction and go straight about the length of the runway. This will help slow you down. Turn 90 degrees and fly back along the runway and check speed. When you are below safe speed to deploy landing gear, drop the wheels. You should be passing the end of the runway you will land on. Proceed past the runway and make another 90 degree turn towards the runway and drop landing flaps. Be ready for increased lift (ballooning) particularly in the P47. Make your final turn towards the runway and line up with your nose pointing roughly at the end of the runway. Check speed. You should be descending just above landing speed as listed in the aircraft specs. If too fast, gently pull up to slow down, or lower nose to speed up. Adjust throttle as needed but in small amounts. As you pass over the runway threshold, cut throttle and raise the nose above the horizon. Hold off the runway until the aircraft settles down in 3 point attitude. Evenly apply brakes and congratulate yourself if you didn’t bounce too high!

 

 

Edited by Jaegermeister

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I guess it all depends on the server your playing on. A full real you can  boom and zoom tactic if you can see the plane below you, normal server forget about it no ones going to let you take a swipe unnoticed. 

 

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18 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

To land, you need to first reduce power to your landing setting. Fly over the field into the wind at about 1000 feet and slow down. After passing the end of the runway, turn either direction and go straight about the length of the runway. This will help slow you down. Turn 90 degrees and fly back along the runway and check speed. When you are below safe speed to deploy landing gear, drop the wheels. You should be passing the end of the runway you will land on. Proceed past the runway and make another 90 degree turn towards the runway and drop landing flaps. Be ready for increased lift (ballooning) particularly in the P47. Make your final turn towards the runway and line up with your nose pointing roughly at the end of the runway. Check speed. You should be descending just above landing speed as listed in the aircraft specs. If too fast, gently pull up to slow down, or lower nose to speed up. Adjust throttle as needed but in small amounts. As you pass over the runway threshold, cut throttle and raise the nose above the horizon. Hold off the runway until the aircraft settles down in 3 point attitude. Evenly apply brakes and congratulate yourself if you didn’t bounce too high!

 

Thanks, this really helped a lot (the "indirect" advise to first learn landings helped too  😉 ) , I did it exactly this way and after 2 hours of only taking off and landing (in the P47) I now manage to land it most of the times. (but I still kill, to often, the prop thanks to bouncing to much) But the feeling after making a perfect 3 point bounch-less landing is great. Most difficult is ending at the right point/speed at the start of the runway but out of curiosity I tried sometimes to land anyhow and that it is surprisingly easy in the P47. With full flaps it looses speed quick, but the extra lift on full flaps is indeed something to watch. I sometimes forgot to return them to the take off position and you do not have to do anything to rotate it. It is almost an autopilot take-off.  This was all done with 400L fuel and stock guns/amo.

 

The biggest problem is still getting at the right position/height/speed The thing that helped a lot, was using the chandelle as a base to turn. The 45 degrees slows it down while the weight is high enough to keep it low and the "natural tendency" to drop on its side helps to turn short enough with a bit more control. I first tried lazy 8's (watched some manoeuvres videos). They are great to make nice controlled 90 degrees turns but the P47 needs a lot of room to do that twice in a row.

 

I learned more thanks to this discussion. Flying at very low altitude can causes problems due to what they call, ground effect (I know what that is from flying RC helicopters but I did not know airplanes have to deal with that too. )  Part of the initial problems had to do with this. I started already to low and to slow. It seems to roll more violent at sudden throttle responses at low altitude as at high altitudes

 

I now understand the plane better and can fly it also low a lot better as before, but I better keep it high. 

It indeed dives pretty stable. It only feels not as fast because the engine sound and it needs some distance. 

The fast roll rate is a bit strange. At first it resists "a lot" but after some "tipping over" point (that caused me the initial troubles at to low altitude) it rolls pretty fast and steady. But I first keep on practicing landing and making controlled turns. Then I will practice climbing. And then think about other manoeuvres and after that combat manoeuvres.

Funny, the only two manoeuvres I knew and I thought I "invented" myself are existing ones. Great, then there is hope for me.

 

I tried some flying in War Thunder this week (I had done only a few flights before I bought TC out of curiosity because planes were not really my thing, but I must say, I now like plane sim even more as tanks and I am very happy I bought IL-2 (at first only TC) .

 

The community here is very helpful. In WoT the most given advise is "deinstall of play tetris" In WT there are already more helpful people as toxic people. But my short experience (with probably a lot of stupid questions) here is very very positive. I think that is very important for the game popularity. This stuff is far from easy to learn and without your help I would probably only had bought TC and maybe even stopped out of "disappointment" (because at that time I  had no clue it was not finished and the tank controls are implemented far from logical) 

12 hours ago, zelil said:

I guess it all depends on the server your playing on. A full real you can  boom and zoom tactic if you can see the plane below you, normal server forget about it no ones going to let you take a swipe unnoticed. 

 

I do not play MP

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There might be an engine management problem as well, if you arent handling the engine well.

 

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On 7/24/2019 at 10:38 AM, pa4tim said:

I just watched a video about the P47 from sherrif sim shack about power management.

That is the video you linked. But thanks for making it (if you  are the same Sherrif) because it was very useful. 

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If you must turn fight with P-47 down low, then use... nay, ABUSE flaps. 

 

40%+- 10% flaps will get your plane to do same stuff your average spit 9 can pull off.  100% flaps will make your plane in to a kite. 

The Jug has a powerful engine, so you can do a lot of low speed, low alt shenanigans with it while abusing flaps. 

As for engine management.  Oil 50% and forget it exists. The inlet shutter is neutral at 50%, ive done some testing and opening it wider will get you more manifold pressure at 10+km if you are flying fast. 

You should always open your throttle first, before using turbo, because one is linked to shaft and other is not. This means you will lose the horsepower from supercharger regardless how open or closed it is, but you can save the turbo losses for later by keeping turbo closed unless you need that manifold for emergency or you are getting to an altitude.

And as always, in combat it is use it or lose it, so don't go easy on your engine if it gets you killed. 

 

 

 

There is lot of testing done in this thread, if you want to get really intimate with your P-47 (and who would not?), cheek it out. 

 

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This is part 2 but part 1 and for most part 3 are worth watching. The P47 was in a way a pretty good plane (if used correct) It was fast and very durable. 

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