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Will we ever get a bomber focused title game ?

 

Im thinking something a la Mighty 8th game (a very old sim game, cant remember the full name)

 

I enjoy the scripted mission with the IL-2 the most and I would love to see either a title, but I would settle for a scripted mission, where you fly with dozens to hundreds of bombers, in formation, and survival is down to sheer luck (and a little bit of skill). 

 

I bought 1946 for this reason only and Im enjoying it but definitely... DEFINITELY, a modern, VR version would be best :)

 

I tried to make one myself with the editor but quite frankly...Im no good. can anyone point me in the right direction if such thing exist around here ?

 

And if the devs are reading, maybe a whole title dedicated to bomber missions or fighter-bomber (more IL-2 missions, or maybe pacific war ship attack or island bombing missions/ fighter-bomber support missions such as on Iwo Jima).

 

Thanks for reading,

Have a nice day.

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Aside from the "Havoc over Kuban" campaign with the A20, isn't it possible to do career mode with the Ju88 and He111's?

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Careermode is very repetative and soulless. 

At least the bombercampaigns I tried. 

You ai wingmen do not cooperate. 

It is simply wrong 

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5 hours ago, hobotango said:

Will we ever get a bomber focused title game ?

 

Im thinking something a la Mighty 8th game (a very old sim game, cant remember the full name) 

 

 

 

Untitled.png

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A bomber focused title would surely be possible these days from a technical standpoint, but it would require a very different game engine and I think, a very different group of developers.  

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The Mighty Eighth was released in 2000.  The fact that no one has done anything like that since then would seem to be a bad sign for future possible development.

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It would not sell enough copies to warrant its development. As much as a lot of us would like it, it just doesn't appeal to the masses. 

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I still fondly remember all the bomber mods in 1946, I used to love flying the Halifax or B17.

we can but hope, never say never after all.

 

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Posted (edited)

B-25 is the closest you can get if developers will make it flyable in future.

 

Everything is at developers hands since modding/homebrew planes is not possible because they wont allow it.

 

Edited by Godspeed

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I can understand dogfighting is fun now and then. 

But all the time? 

A deficated full fidelity bomber sim would be much more interesting in the long run. 

And then go dogfight a little bit

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8 minutes ago, LuseKofte said:

 

A deficated full fidelity bomber sim would be much more interesting in the long run. 

 

 

That is really more DCS’s thing.   I wonder why no one has done it?  

 

Also, a fully functional bomber would be boring as hell.  Long boring climb to altitude.  Long boring flight to target.  Maybe you die along the way, that’s really more random chance since you can’t break formation.  Drop bombs when guy in front of you drops his.  Long boring formation flight home.  Land.  Realize that I paid $100 for 6 hours of boring.  Repeat.

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Clearly you wouldn't be paying $100 for it BraveSirRobin, since apparently you find it all very boring and droll. Fortunately, I would love to lay down $100 for a high fidelity bomber simulator - bonus points for player led positions (navigator, radio operator etc).

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Posted (edited)

B-17 TM8 was a good game in concept, but the execution was less than stellar. On the plus side, the career mode options were great. However, the minuses were just far too many: no multiplayer, the playability of the included fighters was laughably limited, there was only one map for all seasons (unless one changed a hex value in a registry file to show snow), and the player's bomber formation was just 4 or 5 planes. 

20 hours ago, LuseKofte said:

You ai wingmen do not cooperate. 

 

What? Sure they do. 

Edited by LukeFF

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...and that's the thing with our community - we are very passionate indeed with a huge variance in wants and desires within this little niche market...

(*The danger is - do you try to please everybody but end up pleasing nobody, or do you focus on what you think you can do, but try to do it very well? - something the developers have to wrestle with*)

One thing we can agree on I think, WW2 aircraft are amazing! Happy flying all. 😊

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Why does it have to be the B17? B25 has almost as many weaponstations and you don't have to fly that long and don't need those large formations. And the sorties might be more interesting than those of the big fourmots. I hope the Devs will make them playable as the first allied real bomber.

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1 minute ago, Yogiflight said:

Why does it have to be the B17? B25 has almost as many weaponstations and you don't have to fly that long and don't need those large formations. And the sorties might be more interesting than those of the big fourmots. I hope the Devs will make them playable as the first allied real bomber.

I sense the theme of this one is on the heavies...but you won't get any arguments from me on this - love the mediums (that and the B-25 is one of my favorite aircraft😉).

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yep..

Too many fighters, Too much focus on fighters.
all the time wasted on another 109 or another vvs fighter (like p51) could have been spent adding
HANDLEY PAGE HAMPDEN
P38,
B25, 

New VVS Medium Bomber.
HANDLEY PAGE HAMPDEN

Hampden-4_web.jpg[/img]
 

Or 
Armstrong Whitworth Albemarle
ARMSTRONG_WHITWORTH_AW.41_ALBEMARLE_CH_0

Would Love to see both of these things in the VVS plane lineup even if they premium planes i would buy them and almost every person who flies bombers for VVS 

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I would love to have the a20 with the guns in the nose lol

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I think the B25 will definitely scratch that itch.

 

But until then, flying the HE 111 and Ju88 is about as good as it's going to get. 

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12 minutes ago, -LUCKY-ThanksSkeletor said:

 

Ah yes, the flying suitcase. A true gentlemen's aircraft.  

 Actually not too far from one of the three still in existence in my little aircraft museum. 😊

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2 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

That is really more DCS’s thing.   I wonder why no one has done it?  

 

Also, a fully functional bomber would be boring as hell.  Long boring climb to altitude.  Long boring flight to target.  Maybe you die along the way, that’s really more random chance since you can’t break formation.  Drop bombs when guy in front of you drops his.  Long boring formation flight home.  Land.  Realize that I paid $100 for 6 hours of boring.  Repeat.

I know you are right. 

I was not refering to full fidelity flight operation. 

More nission wise like a good realistic bombsight. Navigator seat and all gunnerstations. Flying it could be as gb 

a 2020 version of b17 but this time a b29 or b 24 

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I don't get the criticism of the career mode for bombers being repetitive. I mean...heavy bomber missions ARE repetitive. Most 4 engine bomber pilots flew precisely one kind of mission in WWII: High altitude, long range area bombing of large industrial or urban targets. Every once in a while you might be called to bomb troop concentrations but from a pilot's perspective the mission is nearly identical. Once in a blue moon, you might be called to attack enemy shipping (but heavy bombers were so bad at it they only really tried it a couple times). Strategic bombing doesn't lend itself to mission variety.

With  tactical aircraft, even just in ground attack mode, you get a wide variety of mission types that have different flavours.

-Close Air Support missions
-Airfield attacks
-Anti-tank missions

-armed reconnaissance/interdiction
-anti-shipping 

Each of these mission types  has a different attack profile, armaments; Different altitudes and approaches, different levels of enemy opposition, etc. Thats the charm of a tactical sim that's a little lighter on the technical procedures and heavier on the combat.

A strategic bomber sim would really shine in terms of management of the bomber and crew itself - individually controlling the engines, damage control, blind navigation, realistic radio behaviour, and accurate bomb site. As others have stated above, it would take another style and engine of game prioritizing procedural fidelity and focusing on the technical aspects of flight. A click-pit would be nearly a necessity. AI to simulate a full crew, each with their own jobs, would be needed, unless the player would be managing everything themselves (nearly impossible and unrealistic to boot). And with the visual details expected nowadays, modeling a 4 engine bomber would be the same amount of work as several fighters. It would almost certainly have to be a single-plane sim to get the realism expected and still be economical to produce.

DCS could do the plane well, but I'm not sure they could produce the other aspects that might be required to get the experience people want..

The commitment necessary to learn the craft enough to fly it, the time requirement for realistic missions (never less than a few hours) is going to shrink your possible player base, which means you have to charge more money/copy sold to make a profit, which further reduces your player base...

There are flyable heavies in Il-2 1946 that were added well after the sim was handed over to modders. I never flew them and would have no idea how accurate they might be, but I know it was the work of many years and several people to produce it to the standards of 1946 flight and graphics modeling. Not to impugn the work done, of course, but to show how much more would be expected from a commercial operation in the modern age. 


 

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Posted (edited)

If you like Flight Sims and can fly a passenger plane 16 hours per day 5 days a week in FSX in Vatsim.
doing 8-14 hour flights without Pause without Time Acceleration and its a blast..

Then bombers are great fun, while fighters are too hectic no time to chill have a coffee
or something else to keep you flying while flying. 

Edited by =TBAS=Sschatten14

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All careers I tested is lifeless. Ai wingmen do not hit their target. If in fighter they do not cover you. You get no feel of comrades there with you. 

In old IL 2 I could get a bit upset loosing one of them. I flew death is death dynamic campaign in a IL 2 153 missions until I died on homebase (my wingtip hit a static plane) 

we are no where near a believable sp yet. I do not think we are far from a adequate sp 

  

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, LuseKofte said:

All careers I tested is lifeless. Ai wingmen do not hit their target. If in fighter they do not cover you. You get no feel of comrades there with you. 

In old IL 2 I could get a bit upset loosing one of them. I flew death is death dynamic campaign in a IL 2 153 missions until I died on homebase (my wingtip hit a static plane) 

we are no where near a believable sp yet. I do not think we are far from a adequate sp 

  

We are getting off-topic (as seems the majority of threads go nowadays) - but try PWCG - you will have a much better experience compared to stock.

Edited by Redwo1f
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50 minutes ago, LuseKofte said:

I was not refering to full fidelity flight operation. 

More nission wise like a good realistic bombsight. Navigator seat and all gunnerstations. Flying it could be as gb 

a 2020 version of b17 but this time a b29 or b 24 

 

Then I pass, because do a long flight in a plane with relatively simplified operation  like IL-2:46, CloD, Bo'X' will became boring fast.

 

A kind of "B-17 M8" re-edition need complex modeling and operation - including C-1 Autopilot, radios, since will be focused in one bomber, one map, and possible one campaign.

 

For just hit  "E" and  "Toggle AI autopilot for level flight" and go check What'sApp, Facebook...  the actually available He 111, Ju 88 is OK.

 

Is this kind of plane, but with suitable era map, opponents... the part that make a "Combat Flight Simulator" game.

 



 

 

In resume, no viable for today "gameplay" standards.

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25 minutes ago, Sokol1 said:

 

Then I pass, because do a long flight in a plane with relatively simplified operation  like IL-2:46, CloD, Bo'X' will became boring fast.

 

A kind of "B-17 M8" re-edition need complex modeling and operation - including C-1 Autopilot, radios, since will be focused in one bomber, one map, and possible one campaign.

 

For just hit  "E" and  "Toggle AI autopilot for level flight" and go check What'sApp, Facebook...  the actually available He 111, Ju 88 is OK.

 

Is this kind of plane, but with suitable era map, opponents... the part that make a "Combat Flight Simulator" game.

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In resume, no viable for today "gameplay" standards.

 

Yeah sounds good. But I would really love to anything but GB, just flown KOTA and it is 50 BF 109 feasting on inferior Red bombers . Right now I think I just quit

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Don't forget b17 m8 had skip time option, so you could skip ahead till you were attacked.

 

Doing this type of game now days would require a lot of dev time as our expectations of fidelity have gone up since 20 years ago. Damage models are now more detailed, graphics are better, etc. The only thing in the game industry that is let done down now is AI. It's why most a MP now so you don't have to spend time on developing single player.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Tyberan said:

. It's why most a MP now so you don't have to spend time on developing single player.

If most are in mp, were basically screwed.

Mp players cant fund a matchbox plane based on numbers. 

But you did explain why I am in mp

Edited by LuseKofte
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I have been in bombers for most of my gaming life. On many games, Warbirds, Aces High, '46, CLOD, IL2 BOX and sure I'd love to see the bombers get some love. I do like the fighters and dog fights on line from time to time. But the real thrill(for me) is planning the flight, way points, headings, speed, altitude and dropping the bombs. Then getting back to base. I'd love to see IL2 do a bomber spin off like they did with tanks and WW1 aircraft. I think it would have more support than they think. One can dream! :) Until then I'll be happy with what we have now.

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48 minutes ago, 1./KG4_Blackwolf said:

I'd love to see IL2 do a bomber spin off like they did with tanks and WW1 aircraft.

 

They don’t need to do a bomber spin-off, because there are already bombers in IL2.

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No combat simmer would want a „bomber focused“ sim. At least not when he lets his wallet do the talking. It would require the sim having the same basic features as FSX (etc.) on top of what is required as weapons and DM. You would put plain flying to the center of the gameplay. For B-17‘s you would have to provide at least 1 million km2 game map of the era. It had to be according to the world geodetic system, else the map would be totally distorted. Then you‘d need also dynamic weather and atmosphere instead of just layers of „air pressure“. You‘d need to simulate systems very accurately in order to take reasonable action after damage or any kind of arising problems during flight.

 

These are all things combat sims do not like and frown upon when being asked to pay for it. But if you‘re not having all of that, you „bomber mission“ breaks down to skipping from action point to action point. At those points, you‘d either have a shooting gallery or the bomb run. For the latter, you‘d have to be wing leader, as the others just drop once the leading plane drops their bombs. As a leader, you also don‘t have to worry about formation flying as it would be up to the others doing that. Boring.

 

Bombers are expensive. DCS expensive. At least. Yes, we want everything, but as long as the market doesn‘t pay for it, we don‘t get it.

 

Everything costs more with heavy bombers to give them purpose other than vulching on a new level. It‘s not just the plane. Not even DCS can really handle heavy bombers. Maps are small and weather is a joke. Those AI drones currently present there have not much in common with what you would need for a decent game other than the appearance.

 

 

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1 hour ago, ZachariasX said:

No combat simmer would want a „bomber focused“ sim.

 

A bit of a sweeping statement 🙂       When the 'Bombs Away' B17 sim was announced there was a lot of support for it, especially as it was going to be multi-player.     I for one was very much excited about the chance to crew a B17 with my friends or just new friends met in the game.  Looking for the latest news tripped all sorts of anti-terrorist alarms at Uni 🙂  . It was very disappointing when they announced that they could not add the multiplayer element after all.   
 You underestimate the willingness of Nerds to sit for hours in a single mission and you obviously do not realise that there are communities out there that fly International routes in virtual airliners to a fixed schedule in real-time! A bit too hard core even for me 😲     My first Multiplayer Online Flight sim was 'Warbirds' way back in the last century and we had no trouble filling up 50 bomber & escort slots twice a week to fly 3 hours to Frankfurt or Bremen or Wilhelmshaven etc. and back while equal numbers of Axis players patrolled the North Sea with no idea of our target(s) just hoping to intercept us.  It was not boring flying out because you never knew when you might meet Axis fighters and limping  home with engines and flight controls out was even more fun.   I would rather fly one sortie lasting all night than lots of tiny meaningless designed for kids with short attentions spans. 

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29 minutes ago, 56RAF_Roblex said:

 

🙂I would rather fly one sortie lasting all night than lots of tiny meaningless designed for kids with short attentions spans. 

 

This, that sounds fun af

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We are talking personal preferences here

And lets face it , mp community in here is too few compare to people owning the game. 

In my mind that means mp does not meet the requirements of the majority. So what mp players allegedly wants is not representative of what the majority wants. 

Can it be we are doing this wrong?

Can it be that the vocal ones in this forum is not representative of the majority? 

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4 hours ago, 56RAF_Roblex said:

A bit of a sweeping statement 🙂

Taken literally, yes. Taken by what people pay for, it‘s not. It also depends on what you actually expect of a „bomber sim“. If you are fine with a shooting gallery, then it takes little to make such a sim. Everything else would require a full fledged simulator. And then you‘d realize that your main adversary is the weather, flak being a distant second.

 

Just get A2A simulations B-17 for FSX and you get an idea of everything that should be there as a plain base to build the „combat“ into your bomber sim on top of that. And make the whole of 1944 Europe as a map. How much do you think that would cost?

 

4 hours ago, 56RAF_Roblex said:

My first Multiplayer Online Flight sim was 'Warbirds' way back in the last century and we had no trouble filling up 50 bomber & escort slots twice a week to fly 3 hours to Frankfurt or Bremen or Wilhelmshaven etc. and back while equal numbers of Axis players patrolled the North Sea with no idea of our target(s) just hoping to intercept us.

How would the MP attendance look if you had to pay $199 for just having a bomber?

 

I do however agree that it would be lots of fun. It is even lots of fun without opposing aircraft. Just don‘t read the details of the weather bulletin and try to find your target after a 500 km flight through Atlantic weather. You can do it in FSX. But I doubt the average „Warbirds“ clientele would appreciate much of that. I would love to be proven wrong with the emergence of a nice bomber sim.

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On 7/19/2019 at 6:51 PM, Redwo1f said:

or do you focus on what you think you can do, but try to do it very well?

This is exactly the devs route!

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I have seen this movie before.

 

Players claim they want "bomber simulation".

 

Anything resembling a realistic level heavy bomber like the B-17 is fodder for fighters unless flown in large formations protected by competent HUMAN flown escorts. And using anything resembling a realistic bomb sight results in bombs not so very near the target.

 

Bomber players whine like schoolgirls incessantly about how they are second class citizens who should be "protected".

 

Bombers get harder and harder to kill and easier and easier to bomb with until solo bombers are escorting the fighters with laser aimed defensive armament , damage models that resemble Iowa class battleships while dropping laser guided munitions through small bathroom windows from 35,000 feet.

 

 A realistic bomber simulation is a tight formation flown at slow, constant speed and  at a low enough altitude to see the target with all the bombers releasing bombs together.

 

Exactly the sort of thing AI is exceptionally good at and human players hate to do.

 

 

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