Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
HappyHaddock

People keep saying there's a problem

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

Many of you may be aware that I've been patiently working away on a project to massively overhaul the look of the environmental aspects of this great sim.

 

I was recently asked if my WIP cloud mod solved the aliasing problem of aircraft disappearing and popping back into view when they pass in front of clouds. I was aware of various posts discussing this problem stating how it is an inherent "fault" with the sim. However I can honesty say I'd never actually witnessed this myself which left me wondering quite what folk had been talking about and if I had unintentionally stumbled upon a fix for a problem I'd never had to deal with.

 

Well I've now read some of the posts describing the problem and watched a few you-tube videos illustrating it and whilst I now have a clear idea of what others are dealing with it has made me all the more certain it's not a problem I'd previously encountered.

 

To check I've now run a variety of quick missions against a backdrop of heavy cloud; Whilst aircraft obviously look smaller at greater distances and may drop from view altogether when they get smaller than one pixel, only to "re-appear" as a single pixel if  banking, turning or heading closer again increases the area of screen they occupy, after tracking many aircraft at distance I've not seen a single one "pop" in and out of view when big enough to render as several pixels. To be doubly certain I've even reverted to looking up how to turn on the cheats and aids so I can use the icons some use to label aircraft so I can be sure I'm not missing things because they are out of sight.  The attached screenshot shows every icon has at least one pixel worth of aircraft rendered with it.

 

Given the number of people who have complained about this so called problem I'd like to be able to tell you I "know how to solve it". The truth is I don't know what is so special about what I'm doing that means I've never encountered it. All I can do is offer up the following thoughts about my own set up in case they happen to give clues that others might be able to work with.

 

I doubt this is monitor related but I use a high quality "artists" IPS screen with excellent colour reproduction and an ability to clearly show very subtle contrasts so I'm confident that what is rendered in game I will actually see on screen... I've seen some poor gaming monitors where image quality is not always so good and what shows on a good monitor isn't always clear enough to notice on a cheaper one. My monitor has a naturally slow refresh rate of 60HZ which many gamers would views as barely adequate; I don't know what (if any?) internal processing and buffering it does when the gpu is feeding it images at about 120FPS but there may be some advantage to be gained if this is "averaging out" what is being displayed.

 

What is more likely is that this is a combination of using the maximum graphics quality in game for the clouds along with Nvidia control panel to apply a significant DSR scaling factor and DSR re-smoothing to improve image quality as an alternative form of external anti-aliasing. So if the problem is in anyway related to the resolution of differing things at different LOD and distances then I may be avoiding the problem by calculating the effective look of a distant plane as if it were rendered across a far greater number of pixels even if the monitor ultimately ends up showing it as no more than two or three pixels.

 

The third and least likely possibility is that without knowing how or what exactly it is about my modding work that has made the difference I may have unknowingly changed something that has cured this problem, but given that I've changed so many things to do with the clouds I couldn't speculate about if it is one thing in isolation or the way many things have been re-combined.

 

I doubt this information will directly resolve anybody's problems but I put it out there just in case.

 

HH

icons.jpg

Edited by HappyHaddock
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Again, its a problem with the resolution the clouds are rendered at and the masking that is done for aircraft. 3dmigoto has a fix for this and its the only way to fix this as its a shader issue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your supersampling via DSR is what’s providing the fix. It works but it’s an expensive solution performance wise. I’m using a 4K monitor and while the aliasing in front of clouds still happens it’s appearance is greatly reduced. So if you have a graphics card which can run the game at 4xDSR, the equivalent of 2160x3840. Then just get a 4K screen and see much more benefit, a sharper overall image and less cloud aliasing. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The easiest way to view the on/off effect of other aircraft is to land and watch as others circle around the airfield.  I see it especially often in the career, when enemy planes follow or spawn when I return to base.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, LizLemon said:

Again, its a problem with the resolution the clouds are rendered at and the masking that is done for aircraft. 3dmigoto has a fix for this and its the only way to fix this as its a shader issue.

 

You may well be right to say it's a shader issue, but clearly 3Dmigoto isn't the only fix as I don't run that mod and yet have never encountered these problems to anywhere near the same extent as others describe.

 

I do have a whiff of a thought that the problem may possibly be strongest when the distant planes align with the horizon and that some of the dither fix mods you created might be emphasising or weakening the problem under different circumstances. I've not tested this anywhere enough to be sure of anything , but when you first put out those mods I tried them, saw what they were improving and what they were compromising, and then had a quick play at editing my own dither fix, noting the things that were being changed in game by different versions. Even when the horizon is obscured by cloud and then there are planes in front of this cloud I think, but can't be sure, that some of the blending done at the horizon may be playing a factor to the problem of planes popping in and out of view..

 

If, as is likely, it is the x4 DSR with 75% DSR smoothing that I am running that is giving enough effective anti-aliasing to get around the issue then I'm happy to stick with that as a fix for the "popping" planes. 

 

Any performance hit in terms of frame rate is negligible as with everything maxed out, I'm still getting upwards of 120FPS whilst visually tracking distant planes in amongst the heavy cloud and that's on a second hand 1070 gpu I was recently gifted for free, so it's not as if  I'm running a 2080ti or anything budget busting and state of the art.

 

HH

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just for info, using VR, the problem is even worse and more evident. Aircrafts turn into big transparent jagged blocks when they are in front of the clouds. Its very annoying. I fly with a Primax 5K with high settings, and even if you increase AA SS, use Lefuneste mod or any tweak you try, improves the situation. 

 

Flying at 4k on a monitor,  highest settings, the effect is still there but not very noticeable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, HappyHaddock said:

 

You may well be right to say it's a shader issue, but clearly 3Dmigoto isn't the only fix as I don't run that mod and yet have never encountered these problems to anywhere near the same extent as others describe.

 

I do have a whiff of a thought that the problem may possibly be strongest when the distant planes align with the horizon and that some of the dither fix mods you created might be emphasising or weakening the problem under different circumstances. I've not tested this anywhere enough to be sure of anything , but when you first put out those mods I tried them, saw what they were improving and what they were compromising, and then had a quick play at editing my own dither fix, noting the things that were being changed in game by different versions. Even when the horizon is obscured by cloud and then there are planes in front of this cloud I think, but can't be sure, that some of the blending done at the horizon may be playing a factor to the problem of planes popping in and out of view..

 

If, as is likely, it is the x4 DSR with 75% DSR smoothing that I am running that is giving enough effective anti-aliasing to get around the issue then I'm happy to stick with that as a fix for the "popping" planes. 

 

Any performance hit in terms of frame rate is negligible as with everything maxed out, I'm still getting upwards of 120FPS whilst visually tracking distant planes in amongst the heavy cloud and that's on a second hand 1070 gpu I was recently gifted for free, so it's not as if  I'm running a 2080ti or anything budget busting and state of the art.

 

HH

 

 

As Sharp said running SSAA minimizes the issue, but it does not eliminate it.

 

Once again the issue is that clouds are being rendered at a lower resolution than the framebuffer. The masking of planes against the clouds is done at the cloud buffer resolution. Running the game at 4k/SSAA means that the clouds buffer is 1080x1920 which makes the popping planes issue less noticeable. If the game is running at 1080 then the clouds are at 540x960 and the issue is much more noticeable.

 

Dither has nothing to do with, the angle has nothing to do with it, ect. It is solely cause by the clouds being rendered at a lower resolution and the mask being at the same. 3dmigoto has a fix for this where the masking is done at the native resolution, and this is the only actual fix that tackles the issue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

why are your planes in the first screenshot so small at only 2.54KM 
when you can see them flying around normally at 9km away 
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...