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Brzi_Joe

Low level flight - why?

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The first hint that I learned for il-2 is to go high, higher than others, and use your energy as advantage. I do that with axis and allied planes booth. Anyway lately I can see on MP servers many many people fly low level, not only bombers and allied packs (2 or more skilled turners), but also solo german attackers. Why, what is the point? 

ps: as I fly VR, mostly I can not follow such planes long enough..

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my best guess would be that those flying low (other than attack aircraft) are simply looking for quicker action, not particularily minding "tactics" and such

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Posted (edited)

Bombers are more effective at lower altitude both because bombing is more acurate and because they are harder to spot, especialy if there are clouds. Their escorts are also more effective if they are not much higher than the bombers because they do not have to spend as much SA keeping track of their wards. If both bombers and escorts are low, then there is an incentive for attackers to fly lower as it makes the bomber's and escorts easier to spot.

Edited by [DBS]Browning
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Posted (edited)

It's a very simple answer to this that many people know already by now, and that many also don't want to admit to:

 

GPS

 

It's all because of GPS that you see Pe2s and other machines all flying treetops straight from takeoff to the objectives to bomb, hence most of all fighting eventuates as a treetop air-quake. Would be great if WOL would take off GPS but alas, you don't need to climb more than 200m and you can locate and precision bomb a target. 

 

Just how in hell would it be possible to fly a Pe2 at treetop from takeoff straight to an enemy target and precision bomb it, then return all the way to base, possibly heavily damaged, over the barren Russian landscape back home for tea and biscuits? 

 

This is supposed to be a sim, isn't it?

 

However, with a small niche sim like this, players all naturally attract towards the critical mass of players. This is understandable. As there is nobody playing on the other servers, despite other high quality servers available, the WOL status quo remains.

 

It is as simple as that.

 

 

Edited by Bilbo_Baggins
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Don't forget that the majority of Allied aircraft perform better below 3000m and a few get their best performance advantage versus axis fighters at sea level.    Also,  one of the strengths of the 190 is its dive performance and for the 109s it is the dive and climb performance so it is good for both allied fighters & bombers to nullify that by staying low.   As someone said,  the Axis fighters are probably there to make it easier to find the low Allied aircraft (or because they are stupid 🙂 )

 

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21 minutes ago, Bilbo_Baggins said:

It's a very simple answer to this that many people know already by now, and that many also don't want to admit to:

 

GPS

 

It's all because of GPS and the likes of WOL that you see Pe2s and other machines all flying treetops straight from takeoff to the objectives to bomb, hence most of all fighting eventuates as a treetop air-quake. You don't need to climb more than 200m and you can locate and precision bomb a target. 

 

Just how in hell would it be possible to fly a Pe2 at treetop from takeoff straight to an enemy target and precision bomb it, then return all the way to base, possibly heavily damaged, over the barren Russian landscape back home for tea and biscuits? 

 

This is supposed to be a sim, isn't it?

 

However, with a small niche sim like this, players all naturally attract towards the critical mass of players. This is understandable. As there is nobody playing on the other servers, despite much higher quality servers available, the WOL status quo remains.

 

It is as simple as that.

 

 

total bs i played with or ugenst most of players on wol that play on vvs side, most of them russians on wol ts3 in bombers, on so caled full real servers in il-2 that didnt have gps and icons, they bombed targets and found them with no problems flying at 10m alt, even all sea maps, and in il-2 1946 you had 30+ differant maps to learn, here you only have 4-5 maps to learn, after few months you know every river or hill if you pay atention on where you play at, people putt to mutch into gps, most players are veterans they dont care if server have gps or not they would be able to fined their tgts anyway.

navigations is simple you can fined anything you wont flying at 10km alt or 10m alt if you play the game some time, and most of russian guys doing ga on wol on vvs side ar players playing flying game long time.

flying low is faster, flying low gets you in action faster and then if bombers fly low as targets are ment to be destroy best from low alts and pinpointing them one box or house by one then others who fly higher also have to go low alt, and even if you start up high alt youll end up at low alt when df for lon time.

 

you as base campoer and regular vulcher should understand why players fly low

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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, Bilbo_Baggins said:

 

With all due respect, I know you are a vehement red apologist, but to be fair you are almost never on WOL and hence I do not see any credit to this post of yours whatsoever. Simple fact of the matter is planes would never be able to locate targets to bomb in the first place if they didn't have to climb and spot/navigate, which is only thanks to GPS. If they ever had to climb above treetops and observe their surroundings, there would be a significant danger to their survival. 

 

Regards

 

1) What in my comment was apologising for Reds?   It is simple fact that the Red fighters perform better lower down (at least the VVS ones).

2) The server has nothing to do with aircraft performance and neither does my dislike for flying with GPS. The GPS making it easier to fly at low level  I agree with...to a degree as it is perfectly possible to plan a bombing run at tree tops using bearings and no GPS. I do it all the time.   

Edited by 56RAF_Roblex

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Posted (edited)
Just now, Bilbo_Baggins said:

 

Perhaps you should learn to spell first. Painful shit to read- won't even bother actually. 

 

coming from player who comes on WoL takes of in red airplane and then bails out and then waists all red airplanes on bases so red players cant take them, did ban for that stop and you fined other ways to troll on WoL, your behavior on WoL shows that you dont like anything russian and why you still play on server you try to ruin is big question, players like you dont have any place in MP enviroments as your only goal is to make mp expiriance for others wors for your enjoiment, but hide behined differant nicknames like that works lol

Edited by 77.CountZero
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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, 77.CountZero said:

 

coming from player who comes on WoL takes of in red airplane and then bails out and then waists all red airplanes on bases so red players cant take them, did ban for that stop and you fined other ways to troll on WoL, your behavior on WoL shows that you dont like anything russian and why you still play on server you try to ruin is big question, players like you dont have any place in MP enviroments as your only goal is to make mp expiriance for others wors for your enjoiment, but hide behined differant nicknames like that works lol

 

Let bygones be bygones, is all I can say to that. Been a long time. I've learned from that for sure.

 

Besides, that is long ago now, and I enjoy flying red on occasion. Had some good fights with you boys on today.

 

This is all completely irrelevant to the point I was making in the first place, so let's try not to get too off-topic now shall we?

 

Regards

 

 

Edited by Bilbo_Baggins
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3 minutes ago, 77.CountZero said:

 

coming from player who comes on WoL takes of in red airplane and then bails out and then waists all red airplanes on bases so red players cant take them, did ban for that stop and you fined other ways to troll on WoL, your behavior on WoL shows that you dont like anything russian and why you still play on server you try to ruin is big question, players like you dont have any place in MP enviroments as your only goal is to make mp expiriance for others wors for your enjoiment, but hide behined differant nicknames like that works lol

exactly, I'm not sure why he thinks anyone would take what he has to say seriously with that attitude.

 

@OP 

 

I think most players go by the route of least resistance - it takes disciplined approach to conserve energy and break off target if you will loose too much of it while confirming kill so we end up with low altitude balls of turning planes. 

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As woth others I think the major reason by far is sheer time/laziness.  Some people dont have the time to climb to high alt and fly long missions.  Others not the patience. Some work long hours and enjoy the combat part of the sim more than simply just the flying part and dont want to spend 1.5 of the 2 hrs they can play getting to altitude etc.

For better or for worse this is just the nature of online play unless you can find like minded people or run TAW like servers (which is my favorite il2 expetience so far)

You.ll never get everyone to agree on whether this is "correct" etc as some are going to want 100% realism others want fun so on so on.  Playing Hell Let Loose last night I opined that medics maybe should do their intenfed role.

I got dogpiled with "I dont want my immersion broken!"  (Yelling at me on chat doesnt alrdy do that? Or the names over people like L33T_POON_KILLA!420!)

My response was why have medics at all then and sure IRL medics wouldnt be able to revive you but they also would still run over and be obligated to dope you up etc.

I can see both angles just as I can with this.

Tbh I have to say I think the way it is now is best because if they change it somehow someway to force different behavior than you'll drive many people away when you simply can avoid these annoyances by finding people to fly with

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Thx guys for your comments. Really, I expected some low level tactics or something like hints.

Like once I saw 2 enemies above me, at my 12oclock going in my direction. I was invisible under theis noses. So, I was flying several minutes uder their bellies, climbing, and finally I managed to spray one of them. 

Also I think it is easier to spot somebody above than on ground level with cammo.

 

Anyone has a story where low level flight was advantage?

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There's actually a funny story. A few weeks ago I was on Combat Box. For once, the teams were not balanced (about 12 red ones against 2-3 blue ones). So I thought I'd take a 190 F8 and try my luck with an attacker mission. But I went higher and suddenly a few hundred meters above me there was a formation of 3 Spitfires that was directly holding on to me. I am, probably more out of panic, dived to have more distance.

The Spitfires didn't spot me and passed me by. After that I gained altitude, hid in the clouds and after my attack I went back to the base in low flight. On my 3 o'clock position I noticed an airplane which also turned out to be Spitfire which wanted to go behind its own lines. He didn't see me coming^^
After that I continued my low-level flight and landed.

 

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20 minutes ago, Brzi_Joe said:

Thx guys for your comments. Really, I expected some low level tactics or something like hints.

Like once I saw 2 enemies above me, at my 12oclock going in my direction. I was invisible under theis noses. So, I was flying several minutes uder their bellies, climbing, and finally I managed to spray one of them. 

Also I think it is easier to spot somebody above than on ground level with cammo.

 

Anyone has a story where low level flight was advantage?

One day I flew the U-2VS to attack an AA objective. No GPS needed as I was flying by the road route I planned out below tree top height as if I were driving a car. Slowly made my way in following the roads, popped up near the AA, dropped my bombs on them, then flew home back the way I came. It was actually a rather intense hour of flying completely unarmed as I spotted several 109s on the way who never saw the little plane trucking along.

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Point is that's where the ground war is going on.  Don't matter on a server set up for slaughter though.

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I think the Pe2 makes a mess of many things, its so hard to destroy and the gunners are OP on wings of liberty so they just fly low and fast straight to the target and this results in a lot of negative knock on effects .   please fix it thx :big_boss:

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It’s much easier to spot targets as a ground attacker when you’re lower. And since axis often flies very high they have a hard time picking you out against the landscape until the AA lights up. Some axis guys fly low to counter this and to get more action. And of course most attack aircraft have crappy climb rates so long climbs are often boring

 

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11 hours ago, Bilbo_Baggins said:

It's a very simple answer to this that many people know already by now, and that many also don't want to admit to:

 

GPS

 

It's all because of GPS and the likes of WOL that you see Pe2s and other machines all flying treetops straight from takeoff to the objectives to bomb, hence most of all fighting eventuates as a treetop air-quake. You don't need to climb more than 200m and you can locate and precision bomb a target. 

 

Just how in hell would it be possible to fly a Pe2 at treetop from takeoff straight to an enemy target and precision bomb it, then return all the way to base, possibly heavily damaged, over the barren Russian landscape back home for tea and biscuits? 

 

This is supposed to be a sim, isn't it?

 

However, with a small niche sim like this, players all naturally attract towards the critical mass of players. This is understandable. As there is nobody playing on the other servers, despite much higher quality servers available, the WOL status quo remains.

 

It is as simple as that.

 

 

 

Low level attacks is exactly what the VVS did.  Especially early in the war. 

 

So this post by you is complete bs. 

 

It's as simple as that.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

Low level attacks is exactly what the VVS did.  Especially early in the war. 

 

So this post by you is complete bs. 

 

It's as simple as that.

Absolutely correct

During Kuban campaign IL 2 started to go up to 1500 mtrs , before that they hugged the ground. 

Due to insufficient protection and aa

flying high in a IL 2 is not smart in multiplayer

where protection is insufficient no matter year.

It will for sure kill you by easy spotting and nice target for aa. Slow planes simply do not stand a chance with our accurate aa If you can climb to above 500 mtrs even 1000 mtrs right before target. Give the target all you got and do another strafing run. 

Never strafe twice, the tracers are visible from far distances. Go back in a no obviius route 

Edited by LuseKofte

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Bilbo_Baggins said:

It's a very simple answer to this that many people know already by now, and that many also don't want to admit to:

 

GPS

 

It's all because of GPS and the likes of WOL that you see Pe2s and other machines all flying treetops straight from takeoff to the objectives to bomb, hence most of all fighting eventuates as a treetop air-quake. You don't need to climb more than 200m and you can locate and precision bomb a target. 

 

Just how in hell would it be possible to fly a Pe2 at treetop from takeoff straight to an enemy target and precision bomb it, then return all the way to base, possibly heavily damaged, over the barren Russian landscape back home for tea and biscuits? 

 

This is supposed to be a sim, isn't it?

 

However, with a small niche sim like this, players all naturally attract towards the critical mass of players. This is understandable. As there is nobody playing on the other servers, despite much higher quality servers available, the WOL status quo remains.

 

It is as simple as that.

 

 

Oh dear, here we go again with the "I am defined by the fact that I fly on non GPS servers". There is NOTHING special about flying on a static map non GPS server.

 

As I have said before and will say again the non GPS server maps are static (except TAW) and after 2-3 missions you already know that you go at 220 degrees for 5 minutes and bang you are where you want to be. You learn the landmarks off by heart.

 

I also believe it is people like you who spend 90% of their time over the enemy airbase taking advantage of the games lack of objects and other AI gun behaviours to attack planes on the runway, taking off or climbing out has resulted in most Russians concluding it is a waste of time to climb because you are gaming the game.

 

Edited by Fangthane
because :-)

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Posted (edited)

I saw a lot of answers talking about the lack of tactics, seek for fast action, and GPS assistance... 

 

No. You can navigate low without GPS, and flying low is an efficient tactic. 

 

2 reasons to fly low: 

 

- You are more or less stealthy. 

 

- Way easier to spot contacts and hunt low flying attackers.

Edited by F/JG300_Faucon
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Posted (edited)

Its also fun :)

I dont need gps to navigate.  I evem remember one 2 day period on TAW moscow 41 map the weather was so awful you could only go around by following rivers. We still got it done.

finally best feeling in the world when youre fleeing like a scared rabbit tracers flying around you and at least one of the bastards slams into a hill or a tree :) I laugh all the way through my plane being shredded

Edited by Sublime

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it's fun and if you don't have a belly gunner then it stops people getting a shot under you

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Mostly because with a full load i'm lucky to get to 500m in my U2! 😄

 

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low level flight rewarded my u2 with a bf110 kill, gunner tagged him, gravity finished the rest, and the river hid the evidence... With that I fly below treetop, with IL2, Stuka I fly treetop, peshka/a20 depends on mood, and he111 ju88 up high.  Wish we had b17s... I would take ny sweet time to fly as high as possible in that

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Posted (edited)

 

..no GPS back then either, I believe... ;)

 

 

Edited by Stoopy
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