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The Tempest Shrine (tempest discussion)

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Posted (edited)

Ah, I thought a IIa was over 2,200. What speed does that give it at sea level?

 

I don’t get this, both historical documents and even Wiki affirm the more powerful version installed on the Series II. What is it the team has against Allied fighters that it does not have against rarest mods for the Luftwaffe?

Edited by EAF19_Marsh

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3 minutes ago, EAF19_Marsh said:

Ah, I thought a IIa was over 2,200.

 

What speed does that give it at sea level?

 

~371mph

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1 minute ago, Talon_ said:

 

~371mph

 

Which makes it about the same speed as the K-4s and D-9s?

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10 minutes ago, EAF19_Marsh said:

 

Which makes it about the same speed as the K-4s and D-9s?

 

They both run a little fast down low in the sim and a little slow up high

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1 hour ago, Big_Al_the_Allo said:

Maybe it's just me, but so far we have no idea what we're really getting. 

 

No it's not just you but I'm afraid this

 

8 hours ago, -LUCKY-ThanksSkeletor said:

We should all speculate more, complain more and judge a product that hasn't even been released yet :crazy: 

 

seems to be where we at:rolleyes:.

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Ok, I guess I didn't express myself clearly enough, or people just don't read the rest of what I wrote.
Actually you don't know if there will be only this one engine for the Tempest. It could also be two different engines. After all, we have the same for the Bf-109 K4 or Spitfire MK IX/MK Vb.
And as others have already written, there could be an upgrade for the early MKIIa engine. Nevertheless there are complaints about how bad the plane is now.
This complains have no real reason, because you don't know what for options we will get in the end. Even if there is no other engine as an option, or a boost option does not mean that it will not be handed over sometime.
But keep getting upset about it.

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4 minutes ago, Big_Al_the_Allo said:

Ok, I guess I didn't express myself clearly enough, or people just don't read the rest of what I wrote.
Actually you don't know if there will be only this one engine for the Tempest. It could also be two different engines. After all, we have the same for the Bf-109 K4 or Spitfire MK IX/MK Vb.
And as others have already written, there could be an upgrade for the early MKIIa engine. Nevertheless there are complaints about how bad the plane is now.
This complains have no real reason, because you don't know what for options we will get in the end. Even if there is no other engine as an option, or a boost option does not mean that it will not be handed over sometime.
But keep getting upset about it.

 

All it would take is one message with information from the Devs with what it’s going to get and everything would be cleared up. The fact they haven’t leads me to suspect that they have realised their choice won’t be popular.

Yes it’s futile moaning but a lot of people are very invested in this sim and have spent a lot of money helping fund it only for something they care about to just be not made properly and their voices ignored.  

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So... getting back to the real aircraft... any more comparisons with the Typhoon? The different wing cross-section should give different lift to drag relationships based on angle of attack and give it a different moment (which impacts longitudinal stability)... I'm curious what the historical reports say.

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30 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

So... getting back to the real aircraft... any more comparisons with the Typhoon? The different wing cross-section should give different lift to drag relationships based on angle of attack and give it a different moment (which impacts longitudinal stability)... I'm curious what the historical reports say.

 

There are long RAE reports on this, but at base:

- Lower drag, with better acceleration and speed

- Faster cruise (it cruised very fast)

- Longer range

- Far better roll, with high-speed roll especially good

- Better stability and general control, especially at higher speed

- Better dive and climb

- Better turn, though it did not like a low-speed turn and could stall quite harshly

 

Overall performance a significant improvement on Typhoon, akin to Spit XIV over our LFIX.

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1 hour ago, Bullets said:

All it would take is one message with information from the Devs with what it’s going to get and everything would be cleared up. The fact they haven’t leads me to suspect that they have realised their choice won’t be popular

 

That's what I'm afraid is the matter here.

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Im just gonna stand here and admire with pride my thread growing into maturity.

It fills a young fathers heart with hope 

;)

45 minutes ago, Bremspropeller said:

 

That's what I'm afraid is the matter here.

Likewise. The idea of 150 octane fuel and almost constant complaints about US planes and western plane performance. None has really been mentioned at all and this worries me too quite a bit.

Still this is how I think itll turn out

The p51 will cause much wailing and gnashing of teeth. Itll do better than a p47 but engine modelling, the gas issue, overly high expectations will prpbably lead to a colossal disappointment.

Much the same I fear for the P38 perhaps less so because its not as hotly anticipated or famed as a war winner fighter. (I hope im proved wrong btw)

The tempest is our only true hope.  Even then I anticipate some alarming deficiencies just like the Spit Ix we have now - i.e. overuse that engine in combat or emergency a moment too long and your engines gonna just DIE. WAM.

That said Im almost certain with how tge spits have been modelled and the tempests loadout and performance itll be the best allied fighter in game at least until another title or a collector plane thats better comes along.

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1 hour ago, EAF19_Marsh said:

 

There are long RAE reports on this, but at base:

- Lower drag, with better acceleration and speed

- Faster cruise (it cruised very fast)

- Longer range

- Far better roll, with high-speed roll especially good

- Better stability and general control, especially at higher speed

- Better dive and climb

- Better turn, though it did not like a low-speed turn and could stall quite harshly

 

Overall performance a significant improvement on Typhoon, akin to Spit XIV over our LFIX.

 

Thanks! That all makes sense.

 

I wonder about sustained turn, low speed turn, and absolute turn rates... a thick and more conventional wing section might improve those somewhat?

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31 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

 

Thanks! That all makes sense.

 

I wonder about sustained turn, low speed turn, and absolute turn rates... a thick and more conventional wing section might improve those somewhat?

 

Not sure, probably low speed turn might be similar but a little techy as the wing camber probably leads to a rapid stall. I think wing loading is a little lower and the overall shape has a better distribution of load.

 

But like most later designs, the focus was power and speed which generally equated to an aircraft for fighting while moving fast

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4 hours ago, Bullets said:

 

All it would take is one message with information from the Devs with what it’s going to get and everything would be cleared up. The fact they haven’t leads me to suspect that they have realised their choice won’t be popular.

Yes it’s futile moaning but a lot of people are very invested in this sim and have spent a lot of money helping fund it only for something they care about to just be not made properly and their voices ignored.  

 

Ya because I've ignored your voices for 10 years. Look the hell around, who else is making these products?? Who else is listening to your complaints? Listen to yourself, so self-righteous it's nauseating. I haven't said anything because it brings out the jerks and their real selves so when they apply for Beta testing, which they inventively do, I know who not to bring on board. 

 

Jason

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Posted (edited)

I doubt any choice can be completely popular :) Some people want options... some people want choices to be limited to the most common historical ones.. The important thing is that there is a choice to be made and someone to do it...

 

There are undoubtedly a lot more factors to these decisions than any of us users are aware of (e.g. modelling considerations, timeline/cost, profitability)... things which mean we shouldn't take our own opinions too seriously.

Edited by Avimimus

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I'm Laughing so hard I almost pissed myself!!! I just happened to be here when you posted Jason. I guess no one realizes you do this for a living and for the vast majority of the rest, this is just a hobby. Thank you, and the developers for all you do, and to the community that is invested in the outcome. This is a great sim, and I for one am not disappointed. I am sure the majority of the community will be happy with the results, as for the rest, well.......

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12 minutes ago, Jason_Williams said:

 

Ya because I've ignored your voices for 10 years. Look the hell around, who else is making these products?? Who else is listening to your complaints? Listen to yourself, so self-righteous it's nauseating. I haven't said anything because it brings out the jerks and their real selves so when they apply for Beta testing, which they inventively do, I know who not to bring on board. 

 

Jason

Fair nuff.  This is as good as reasom as any and it is an explanation.

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That said, one could make an argument that there is also an underlying importance to these products as a form of historical documentation and education about the war... something future generations need... so certainly, there can be meaningfulness that goes far beyond a recreational product. Asking developers of a small company to bear the burden of memorialising history (e.g. representing RAF bomber command etc.) is a bit too much to ask - although they often bear such a responsibility well in spite of the challenge.

 

But if it is always good if we can help the devs in some way (either in producing a profitable/fun product or getting history right), but we should recognise that it is really really a complicated problem to manage such a product (just as we should realise that the modelling and programming they do is an art few of us could ever approximate).

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7 minutes ago, Jason_Williams said:

 

Ya because I've ignored your voices for 10 years. Look the hell around, who else is making these products?? Who else is listening to your complaints? Listen to yourself, so self-righteous it's nauseating. I haven't said anything because it brings out the jerks and their real selves so when they apply for Beta testing, which they inventively do, I know who not to bring on board. 

 

Jason

 

Wasn’t a personal attack Jason, we love this product, we know this is the best one on the market hence that is why we are so invested, I’m not sat here on my weekend posting about dev choices on War Thunder for a reason haha.

Self righteous?? I think I have been pretty reasonable, hardly said anything crazy and I definitely haven’t been a “jerk”. 

 

Also a bit weird for you to act like the beta team is just your “cool guys” club for people you don’t think are jerks. We all want the same thing for this sim to be bug free (which is the beta teams job...) and I would love to help in that process which is why I applied. 

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A bit cranky but straight answer.

But he left out what next.

 

I bet if it gonna be PTO , they’ll open up the section in a good while forehand.  

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  Gentlemen this is a flight "simulation", by its definition there will always be variations. The models are and can only be representative of that particular variant of aircraft. It is done to the best of the abilities of everyone involved. No aircraft's modeling can be perfect, there is so much variation even among the same types. A great example would be Robert Johnson's P-47, it was able to outperform others of the same type with modifications from his ground crew.  Should all P-47s then be the same as his? ( yes I know we don't have that variant). That being said, the game still teaches the same lessons. In a multi-player server, a pilot in a not so good aircraft can beat a pilot in a great aircraft, if he flies the plane within it strengths and uses good tactics. This is the same lesson every combat pilot must learn in game, or in real life. There are no unicorns to ride into battle that will make you unbeatable. This game sets the parameters, learn your machine, attack when you have advantage, learn your enemy, use his weakness to your advantage. It really doesn't get any more historical than that.

  I for one, am great full that anyone bothers to do this type of project at all. Look around there are not that many titles out there that are as new or who continue to develop for a community. It's not like there is competition everywhere. Be supportive and patient, this is an ongoing project that will always be upgraded, just like ROF. Jason has always listened to the community, and he always will, that is why we have this game now.

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I paid a lot of money for the sim which I think entitles me to an accurate product - hence why I comment in the devblogs pointing out inaccuracies in my specialist areas that the team, who have to have a much wider range of knowledge, may have missed.

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47 minutes ago, LuseKofte said:

I bet if it gonna be PTO , they’ll open up the section in a good while forehand. 

I bet it wont be PTO:cray:

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Wasn't this thread supposed to be about appreciating the Tempest?

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, Avimimus said:

Wasn't this thread supposed to be about appreciating the Tempest?

Maybe it should be renamed to "The Tempest whine"...

Tough Crowd.

Edited by Psyrion
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1 hour ago, Talon_ said:

I paid a lot of money for the sim which I think entitles me to an accurate product - hence why I comment in the devblogs pointing out inaccuracies in my specialist areas that the team, who have to have a much wider range of knowledge, may have missed.

 

No actually it doesn't. All you money entitles you to is the product we decide to build. Only in flight-simming do you come across such an entitlement mentality among some users. It's very off-putting to the team and does not motivate them one bit to go the extra mile for you, which when you cry and campaign about +11lb boost, and assuming we add it, is what we are doing. You can simply buy or not buy our products and making that purchase allows you to play it, unless you break the EULA and then we have a right to ban you. The team including me strives to make the best product we can with the resources we have. We are NOT required in any way to make every feature demanded by our customers.

 

And we know all about your little secret whisper campaign to try and discredit our work and cause a stink in the forum when you know nothing of our plans. Such wonderful customers we have.

 

Jason

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I was writing this when JW commented:

 

32 minutes ago, Talon_ said:

I paid a lot of money for the sim which I think entitles me to an accurate product

 

We read this devblog and it was by this guy who works in what we may imagine to be the best job in the world, developing a top notch flight sim which we all love. It was a story of travels around the world trying to find the best evidence upon which to base this product, and of the endeavour of many and valued allies. He describes being moved as a child by the alure of this brutish and purposeful foreign fighter. The power and lines of the thing. He describes his ambition to make it fly, to experience it in simulation, and to simulate the most realistic Tempest ever seen as a personal quest.

 

Allied bias confirmed? I don't think so, but I do recognise the devs acting in good faith. I don't get a whif of anything phoney in that.

 

The last DD reads like a revelation of personal pride and good intent. I'm almost there with them.

 

I have some very specific preferences for current and future content, but what's far more important to me is that they just do their best work.

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a Hawker Tempest as model 1/32 costs 85 euros

IL 2 GB is much cheaper

sh32070.jpg

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The last DD, and the video with it was really good and was interesting to read what happened in the last months about BoBP, and one of the most iconic plane of that expansion. 
Sadly, there is always at least one person who want to kill the party. 

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Posted (edited)

Anyone, who doesn`t realize it`s in the beta stage, in other words not final, raise a hand. You can`t tell anything from a movie made in the testing phase, you`ll just have to wait for the final product. I don`t think anyone can, that`s why there`s testing.

 

But it`s an excellent plane and joy to fly, just relax.

Edited by LLv24_Zami
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Mr Williams, 

Customers always complain.  It's expected in every business. 

The British Museum has a complaint from a trader called Ea-nasir from 3750 years ago so this is definately nothing new. 

What is unusual is having the business owner then call his customers 'jerks' or telling them they are ', so self-righteous it's nauseating'. If dealing with the customers is upsetting you so much, maybe it's time appoint someone as your customer representative.

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32 minutes ago, Bloodsplatter said:

Mr Williams, 

Customers always complain.  It's expected in every business. 

The British Museum has a complaint from a trader called Ea-nasir from 3750 years ago so this is definately nothing new. 

What is unusual is having the business owner then call his customers 'jerks' or telling them they are ', so self-righteous it's nauseating'. If dealing with the customers is upsetting you so much, maybe it's time appoint someone as your customer representative.

I think that Jason is doing fine

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1 hour ago, Bloodsplatter said:

Mr Williams, 

Customers always complain.  It's expected in every business. 

The British Museum has a complaint from a trader called Ea-nasir from 3750 years ago so this is definately nothing new. 

What is unusual is having the business owner then call his customers 'jerks' or telling them they are ', so self-righteous it's nauseating'. If dealing with the customers is upsetting you so much, maybe it's time appoint someone as your customer representative.

Whats the complaint say? Just curious :)

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12 minutes ago, Sublime said:

Whats the complaint say? Just curious :)

 

Quote

Tell Ea-nasir: Nanni sends the following message:

When you came, you said to me as follows : "I will give Gimil-Sin (when he comes) fine quality copper ingots." You left then but you did not do what you promised me. You put ingots which were not good before my messenger (Sit-Sin) and said: "If you want to take them, take them; if you do not want to take them, go away!"

What do you take me for, that you treat somebody like me with such contempt? I have sent as messengers gentlemen like ourselves to collect the bag with my money (deposited with you) but you have treated me with contempt by sending them back to me empty-handed several times, and that through enemy territory. Is there anyone among the merchants who trade with Telmun who has treated me in this way? You alone treat my messenger with contempt! On account of that one (trifling) mina of silver which I owe(?) you, you feel free to speak in such a way, while I have given to the palace on your behalf 1,080 pounds of copper, and umi-abum has likewise given 1,080 pounds of copper, apart from what we both have had written on a sealed tablet to be kept in the temple of Shamash.

How have you treated me for that copper? You have withheld my money bag from me in enemy territory; it is now up to you to restore (my money) to me in full.

Take cognizance that (from now on) I will not accept here any copper from you that is not of fine quality. I shall (from now on) select and take the ingots individually in my own yard, and I shall exercise against you my right of rejection because you have treated me with contempt.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complaint_tablet_to_Ea-nasir

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2 hours ago, Bloodsplatter said:

Mr Williams, 

Customers always complain.  It's expected in every business. 

The British Museum has a complaint from a trader called Ea-nasir from 3750 years ago so this is definately nothing new. 

What is unusual is having the business owner then call his customers 'jerks' or telling them they are ', so self-righteous it's nauseating'. If dealing with the customers is upsetting you so much, maybe it's time appoint someone as your customer representative.

 

Or I can just sit in my ivory tower like other game producers do at other large development houses. We've been nothing but transparent and approachable the entire time we've been in business. I'm allowed to push back when people make unrealistic demands of my dedicated and hard working team. One or maybe two posts about +11lb boost is enough, dozens is not needed nor is trying to cause a ruckus on the forum behind our back. If that's not jerky behavior, I don't know what is. Read the DD again to understand my love and appreciation for this community.

Jason

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You guys realise that this thread talking about a British aircraft is now thoroughly spoiled as are our discussions about history?

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Jason, carry on sir.  You and the team are doing a great job.

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7 hours ago, Bloodsplatter said:

Mr Williams, 

Customers always complain.  It's expected in every business. 

The British Museum has a complaint from a trader called Ea-nasir from 3750 years ago so this is definately nothing new. 

What is unusual is having the business owner then call his customers 'jerks' or telling them they are ', so self-righteous it's nauseating'. If dealing with the customers is upsetting you so much, maybe it's time appoint someone as your customer representative.

 

Jason is unusual 

 

In a world of BS and PC mollycoddling he says it how he feels and this should be appreciated. 

 

People do behave like jerks on this forum (I occasionally can be one myself) and are sometimes so self righteous it is very nauseating. It is refreshing to have people to stand up and say it

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

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After years of being on this and other Il2 forums you get to see the exact same names repeat the exact same biased crusades and complaints.  As usual the number of complainers are small but their voices are loud.

 

We have the BoB (Band of Britpickers) on here complaining over and over and it kind of drags the thread (and mood) down.  You've made your points and if you wish for changes to be made do so in a constructive way.

 

Regardless of what boost the Tempest is modelled it will be as good or better than a Dora or K4.  I am happy because my absolutely favourite RAF single engine fighter of the war is now being added.

Edited by ICDP
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36 minutes ago, Dakpilot said:

People do behave like jerks on this forum (I occasionally can be one myself) and are sometimes so self righteous it is very nauseating.

Yeah, raising hand here. I´m guilty as charged 

40 minutes ago, ICDP said:

Regardless of what boost the Tempest is modelled it will be as good or better than a Dora or K4.  I am happy because my absolutely favourite RAF single engine fighter of the war is now being added.

That`s true. 

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