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Seems like nothing out there now represents much of a leap from the original Samsung Odyssey. I'm awaiting the VRcover foam for the Odyssey+ but expect I will again shelve the + after experimenting with the foam mod.

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Posted (edited)

I really enjoyed my pimax5k+ i upgraded from the CV1 to that and it was a def wow factor. I had the HP reverb for about a week before i sent it back screen flickering was bad in the HMD i had. the clarity was awesome but the FOV was terrible, if i want from the CV1 to Reverb i probably would have not minded but after trying the pimax i could not go back to that small FOV. I recently picked up the Valve index and i have to say i have never plug in my pimax again. it doesn't have the FOV of the 5k but to me it doesnt seem that much different than the pimax on small fov which i was running anyway to keep and acceptable FPS. the clarity and sweet spot seemed better than the pimax and the FPS i get is better. My biggest issue was my pimax not recognizing the base stations put in multiple help tickets the remoted in and fixed it but it was always an issue. The Pimax always felt like a work in progress, where as the Index feels like a polished product (in my experience). over all the ease of use, clarity, better FPS, and decent FOV for me makes the Valve index the overall best headset on the market today. VR very subjective and every ones eyes see different things and everyone has diffrent selling points whether thats FOV (Pimax) or resolution (Reverb) price Rift S. having tried all except the (Rift S) my go to is the Index.    

Edited by [TWB]kmac31
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Do you also have any issues with tracking with Valve Index? It seems that specifically in high demanding scenes the tracking becomes more challenging and I have jumping / floating PoV problems. Any remedies? 

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On 8/20/2019 at 6:43 PM, [TWB]kmac31 said:

VR very subjective and every ones eyes see different things and everyone has diffrent selling points whether thats FOV (Pimax) or resolution (Reverb) price Rift S. having tried all except the (Rift S) my go to is the Index

 

My Reverb will arrive soon. So, I will need to decide again: Index or Reverb. Obviously I will take my time to compare them. 

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1 hour ago, chiliwili69 said:

My Reverb will arrive soon. So, I will need to decide again: Index or Reverb. Obviously I will take my time to compare them. 

 

My money's on the Index. The Reverb might have more pixels, but the crappy sweet spot coupled with inferior WMR tech is going to be an overall worse package than the Index. But let's see, it's always fun when you do a comparison!

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14 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

My Reverb will arrive soon. So, I will need to decide again: Index or Reverb. Obviously I will take my time to compare them. 

I am looking forward to your review when I first put on the headset I had that wow this is the future moment. The clarity is amazing, dang near looking at the monitor, but mine was pleaged with issues I think they were from the connecting cord, it was a issue for many but hopefully they fixed that. It's really strong in clarity but real week in FOV some can look past that but the future with that clarity and the pimax FOV and the index sweet spot is going to be awsome I am excited for what VR will bring.

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5 hours ago, [TWB]kmac31 said:

I am looking forward to your review when I first put on the headset I had that wow this is the future moment. The clarity is amazing, dang near looking at the monitor, but mine was pleaged with issues I think they were from the connecting cord, it was a issue for many but hopefully they fixed that. It's really strong in clarity but real week in FOV some can look past that but the future with that clarity and the pimax FOV and the index sweet spot is going to be awsome I am excited for what VR will bring.

hahaha years later and were still waiting for that perfect future headset that combines all the shit that should be standard by now. No thanks to oculus's race to the bottom I don't think we will get there anytime soon. Maybe when we do I'll give it a go again.

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One thing I get from all these VR threads is that it's the guys flying in VR who seem to be having the most fun....just saying.

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16 minutes ago, Lensman1945 said:

One thing I get from all these VR threads is that it's the guys flying in VR who seem to be having the most fun....just saying.

yes and even with all the deficiencies of VR its still a game changer and if you fly with VR

consistently you will never be able to go back to a flat monitor. We complain that one headset doesn't have it all or that VR is not perfect but its such a leap forward in how you can experience IL2.

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Just a quick note, but I've found that Coconut's cloud mod "vr_settings" lowers fps considerably in VR.

 

With the Index I've disabled it and in my own test scenario (1 IX v 8 Ju52s with heavy clouds) fps increased by around 30 on the merge.  Aircraft against cloud doesn't look quite as good but as long as clouds are on "high" it is liveable with.

 

They still need to fix the clouds issue though.

 

von Tom

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2 hours ago, [TWB]kmac31 said:

 

yes and even with all the deficiencies of VR its still a game changer and if you fly with VR

consistently you will never be able to go back to a flat monitor. We complain that one headset doesn't have it all or that VR is not perfect but its such a leap forward in how you can experience IL2.

In learning to fly seems like "sticking" the landing is a constant source of adrenaline rush. With VR there is a "recall" effect that makes the shortcomings of current HMDs pale in comparison to the sense of "being there" that VR provides. Of the three HMD's I have tried (Rift CV1, Odyssey & O+)  the original Odyssey is the best. Looks as though, after the original Odyssey, all the HMD makers have tried to make their products as cheaply as possible rather than attempt to set a standard for comparison. I think that the original Odyssey, with higher resolution amoled screens, would be superior to everything currently available. The Odyssey+ was almost a scam product in that it provided same resolution as the original but destroyed the image by causing smearing of everything not in lens center. So even though the VRcover foam makes the + less uncomfortable to wear the + is still irritating to use because of how it degrades the image.

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3 hours ago, Lensman1945 said:

One thing I get from all these VR threads is that it's the guys flying in VR who seem to be having the most fun....just saying.

 

Oh yeah I would say most definitely.

I have way much more fun in IL-2 (and other games) than I ever had previously, and find myself spending way more time with it than I used to prior to VR.

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5 hours ago, [TWB]kmac31 said:

 

yes and even with all the deficiencies of VR its still a game changer and if you fly with VR

consistently you will never be able to go back to a flat monitor. We complain that one headset doesn't have it all or that VR is not perfect but its such a leap forward in how you can experience IL2.

Funny I gave it up after two headsets and hundreds of hours. It isn't that great.  Putting the mask back on compared to my ultrawide is like blinding myself. Can't see anything at all with a headset on. Plus it's hot, uncomfortable, the frame rate sucks, the graphics suck, and I can't see anything else. It just isn't that good.

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8 minutes ago, JonRedcorn said:

Funny I gave it up after two headsets and hundreds of hours. It isn't that great.  Putting the mask back on compared to my ultrawide is like blinding myself. Can't see anything at all with a headset on. Plus it's hot, uncomfortable, the frame rate sucks, the graphics suck, and I can't see anything else. It just isn't that good.

To each his own

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Just now, [TWB]kmac31 said:

To each his own

I keep hearing "you can never go back", which is bullshit, you can go back, get a better monitor and start playing other sims that don't have VR support and you'll forget VR exists.

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49 minutes ago, JonRedcorn said:

I keep hearing "you can never go back", which is bullshit, you can go back, get a better monitor and start playing other sims that don't have VR support and you'll forget VR exists.

I can play FPS games on monitors but driving and flight sims are so way more immersive in VR that no, I couldn't go back to a monitor no matter how good it is.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, JonRedcorn said:

I keep hearing "you can never go back", which is bullshit, you can go back, get a better monitor and start playing other sims that don't have VR support and you'll forget VR exists.

 

I love VR but this is so absolutely accurate.  I cringe when I see people saying "once you try VR you can never go back", because it is an incredibly subjective experience.  If you want to say "Once I tried sims in VR I could never go back to 2D", then fair enough but please try to understand how arrogant it looks to assume everyone feels just like you.

 

I have a Pimax 5K+ and I play in VR 80% of the time but it simply can't match the pure detail and sharpness that a 32" 4K monitor can provide.

Edited by ICDP

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26 minutes ago, ICDP said:

 

I love VR but this is so absolutely accurate.  I cringe when I see people saying "once you try VR you can never go back", because it is an incredibly subjective experience.  If you want to say "Once I tried sims in VR I could never go back to 2D", then fair enough but please try to understand how arrogant it looks to assume everyone feels just like you.

That is fair enough but equally the "absolutely accurate" statement you are agreeing with states you can go back and forget VR which is equally as sweeping a statement and incorrect for many. I agree with your statement though, it is subjective and for some once they have tasted VR that is their future for sims but not for everyone.

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2 hours ago, PO_Baldrick said:

That is fair enough but equally the "absolutely accurate" statement you are agreeing with states you can go back and forget VR which is equally as sweeping a statement and incorrect for many. I agree with your statement though, it is subjective and for some once they have tasted VR that is their future for sims but not for everyone.

 

Just to clarify, the point I was agreeing with actually qualified "get a better monitor" as a fundamental requirement.   As it is right now even the best VR is not close to the clarity of a good monitor.  So it is possible to get a better monitor (4K clarity and 32" or above for size) and be so amazed that you can indeed forget about VR.

 

On my 4K 32" monitor I can see details that are not visible in VR.  Stenciling can be read at normal distance, targets are defined and can be far more easily distinguished etc.  These points alone can make me marvel at the clarity a VR HMD just cannot get close to.

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1 hour ago, ICDP said:

 

...  These points alone can make me marvel at the clarity a VR HMD just cannot get close to.

 

Agreed, but monitors have been around a long time and the hardware to run them is more affordable.  I reckon that by the time a VR headset matches 4k resolution at acceptable fps with high graphical fidelity, that this is when I will have macular degeneration and not be able to enjoy it.

 

For now, I tried VR and I could never go back to a monitor (LG ultrawide) for a flight sim.  Each to their own.

 

von Tom

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2 hours ago, von_Tom said:

 

Agreed, but monitors have been around a long time and the hardware to run them is more affordable.  I reckon that by the time a VR headset matches 4k resolution at acceptable fps with high graphical fidelity, that this is when I will have macular degeneration and not be able to enjoy it.

 

For now, I tried VR and I could never go back to a monitor (LG ultrawide) for a flight sim.  Each to their own.

 

von Tom

Wait till you've put in a good 400 hours into a headset and then let me know if it's still worth it.

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4 hours ago, JonRedcorn said:

Wait till you've put in a good 400 hours into a headset and then let me know if it's still worth it.

 

I've been running my OG Vive for over 3 years now and would be probably somewhere in the range of 1000 - 1500 hours.

Well worth it.

 

8 hours ago, ICDP said:

As it is right now even the best VR is not close to the clarity of a good monitor.  So it is possible to get a better monitor (4K clarity and 32" or above for size) and be so amazed that you can indeed forget about VR.

 

On my 4K 32" monitor I can see details that are not visible in VR.  Stenciling can be read at normal distance, targets are defined and can be far more easily distinguished etc.  These points alone can make me marvel at the clarity a VR HMD just cannot get close to.

 

But do you have actual depth of field with your 4K monitor?

Sorry, but a big 4K screen or not, I have two eyes and the depth perception makes this a moot point for me. Im still on an OG Vive (waiting for Valve index to be available in Australia), with probably the lowest PPD of all headsets available at the moment, yet I wouldn't go back to a flatscreen. Ive said it before, if my VR headset stopped functioning, IL2 would be shelved until I replaced the headset.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, von_Tom said:

 

Agreed, but monitors have been around a long time and the hardware to run them is more affordable.  I reckon that by the time a VR headset matches 4k resolution at acceptable fps with high graphical fidelity, that this is when I will have macular degeneration and not be able to enjoy it.

 

For now, I tried VR and I could never go back to a monitor (LG ultrawide) for a flight sim.  Each to their own.

 

von Tom

 

As you say each to their own.  That was my point as well in response to the "once you try VR you will never go back".

4 minutes ago, =EXPEND=Tripwire said:

 

I've been running my OG Vive for over 3 years now and would be probably somewhere in the range of 1000 - 1500 hours.

Well worth it.

 

 

But do you have actual depth of field with your 4K monitor?

Sorry, but a big 4K screen or not, I have two eyes and the depth perception makes this a moot point for me. Im still on an OG Vive (waiting for Valve index to be available in Australia), with probably the lowest PPD of all headsets available at the moment, yet I wouldn't go back to a flatscreen. Ive said it before, if my VR headset stopped functioning, IL2 would be shelved until I replaced the headset.

 

Once again, another sweeping statement based on your opinion and not in the least bit factoring in other people will have a different opinion.

 

I like 4K on my 32" screen at 60FPS.  Others would not touch less than 120FPS.  I like My Pimax 5K+ because for me the wide FoV beats comfort and colours, while others think Pimax 5K+ is gash.  These are all subjective opinions and if you come here stating your opinion as a fact then that is wrong.  Sorry.

Edited by ICDP

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, ICDP said:

 

Just to clarify, the point I was agreeing with actually qualified "get a better monitor" as a fundamental requirement.   As it is right now even the best VR is not close to the clarity of a good monitor.  So it is possible to get a better monitor (4K clarity and 32" or above for size) and be so amazed that you can indeed forget about VR.

 

On my 4K 32" monitor I can see details that are not visible in VR.  Stenciling can be read at normal distance, targets are defined and can be far more easily distinguished etc.  These points alone can make me marvel at the clarity a VR HMD just cannot get close to.

 

I used to flip flop between monitors and VR and have a "wow!" moment every time :) I am in the the car/plane, then wow that looks incredible!

 

I think we have reached a point with the new headsets I don't get that feeling I am missing out on monitor quality, that isn't to say the difference isn't still large. That is just me though, people were saying you can't go back in the days of the DK2 and they may have been right for them but it is a sweeping statement I don't like just as much as I don't like the statement suggesting you can go back. So I guess we are agreeing :)

Edited by PO_Baldrick

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7 minutes ago, ICDP said:

and if you come here stating your opinion as a fact then that is wrong.  Sorry.

 

Where did I state my opinion was a fact? I shared my opinion, one you disagree with (which is fine).

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, JonRedcorn said:

Wait till you've put in a good 400 hours into a headset and then let me know if it's still worth it.

 

1 hour was enough to decide. The 600 hours or so afterwards simply reinforces my opinion. 

 

Note “my opinion”. To me your comments come across as if your opinion is more valuable. It isn’t - subjective opinions only carry weight for the individual holding that opinion. 

 

Each to their own. 

 

von Tom

Edited by von_Tom
Clarification
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, =EXPEND=Tripwire said:

 

 

Where did I state my opinion was a fact? I shared my opinion, one you disagree with (which is fine).

 

Apologies but you didn't clarify if you had actually tested a large 4K screen before stating the clarity would be moot for you as they lack depth perception.  So based on that statement I feel it is safe to assume you haven't or you would have said so.

 

So the question then becomes, but have you actually tried a large 4K screen in I-l2.  If not then your statement loses almost all credibility.

 

Here is Jason's write-up of his experience of 4K for the first time even compared to VR.

 

Even in this thread about the Index there are people who tested various HMDs before deciding which one fits their needs best.  I have tried DK2, CV1, Lenovo Explorer, HTC Vive, Odyssey, Pimax 5K+ and Valve Index.  Out of all those I can subjectively decide the 5K+ is best for my needs overall.  Had I only ever tried a Pimax 5K+ and declared it the best HMD ever, then people would be right to question my "opinion".

 

Basically even opinion need to be based on tests, comparisons and actual facts.  To use an extreme example, it's like someone saying their country is the best in the world, yet they have never stepped foot out of it.

Edited by ICDP

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I have used first my Rift then my Rift S combined for no telling how many hours total.

Use it practically daily for several hours each week.  From day 1 (Jan 15th 2017) I have absolutely loved it, and have not

done any gaming at all on the monitor since then. This includes flight sims mainly as well as many other games from time to time.

If a game does not support VR, then I will not purchase it. But that is just me and I certainly don't assume everyone should feel the same.

 

These "debates" on VR versus Monitor come up from time to time, and folks on both sides of the debate tend to take it personally when one disses on the 

other's desired way of playing the game. I guess that is human nature for one to defend their preference on the subject, when there really is no need to.

It is good to see folks express how they best enjoy the game, but yes how they do so is very much personal preference and very subjective. 

No need really for anyone to either defend their choice or put down another one's choice. 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, dburne said:

I have used first my Rift then my Rift S combined for no telling how many hours total.

Use it practically daily for several hours each week.  From day 1 (Jan 15th 2017) I have absolutely loved it, and have not

done any gaming at all on the monitor since then. This includes flight sims mainly as well as many other games from time to time.

If a game does not support VR, then I will not purchase it. But that is just me and I certainly don't assume everyone should feel the same.

 

These "debates" on VR versus Monitor come up from time to time, and folks on both sides of the debate tend to take it personally when one disses on the 

other's desired way of playing the game. I guess that is human nature for one to defend their preference on the subject, when there really is no need to.

It is good to see folks express how they best enjoy the game, but yes how they do so is very much personal preference and very subjective. 

No need really for anyone to either defend their choice or put down another one's choice. 

 

 

 

 

My contention is when people declare opinion that is not based on actual experience.

Edited by ICDP
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1 hour ago, ICDP said:

 

My contention is when people declare opinion that is not based on actual experience.

And that's the crux.

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I really don't understand why people who think VR is shit and a waste of time are even in this subforum. Like, we get it. You think it's shit and the resolution is low and that you get plenty of immersion from a 4K flat screen. Your opinion is valid and you've said your piece many times. Is repeatedly putting that opinion into threads in the VR forum actually useful? This is the Index review thread, not a "VR vs flat screen" thread.

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10 hours ago, Alonzo said:

I really don't understand why people who think VR is shit and a waste of time are even in this subforum. Like, we get it. You think it's shit and the resolution is low and that you get plenty of immersion from a 4K flat screen. Your opinion is valid and you've said your piece many times. Is repeatedly putting that opinion into threads in the VR forum actually useful? This is the Index review thread, not a "VR vs flat screen" thread.

 

I'm not speaking for everyone but I most certainly didn't claim VR was shit and a waste of time.  I simply don't like people who arrogantly assume they speak for everyone when they declare "once you try VR you will never go back".  While there are exceptions, it is almost always a case that those individuals are basing their opinion on a limited set of testing criteria.

 

Let's imagine two reviews and tell us which one is more valid here?

Review 1.  Gives a review on what's best, based on their tests between a small 1080p monitor and a 1st Gen HMD.

 

Review 2.  Gives a review on what's best after testing a small 1080p, large 1080p, large 1440p, large 4K, large 1440p widescreen, CV1, DK2, OG Vive, Odyssey, Lenovo, Pimax 5K+ and Valve index.

 

I would put the review "or opinion" of the 2nd review far higher than the 1st review.  That is not the same as saying the 1st review has no merit but certainly not as much as the 2nd review.  I should also remind you that nobody gets to claim a thread or sub forum for you and only people like you.  If the moderators decide any content is not in the right place they will move it.  This is not an echo chamber where anyone who dares to claim VR is not all that (or shit for that matter) is banned from entering.

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, Alonzo said:

I really don't understand why people who think VR is shit and a waste of time are even in this subforum. Like, we get it. You think it's shit and the resolution is low and that you get plenty of immersion from a 4K flat screen. Your opinion is valid and you've said your piece many times. Is repeatedly putting that opinion into threads in the VR forum actually useful? This is the Index review thread, not a "VR vs flat screen" thread.

Cry more. Also the rift S is shit. Never said VR is shit. Whats also adorable is you'll be the first guy to go like SharpXB's comments and yet here you are saying this.

Edited by JonRedcorn

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1 hour ago, JonRedcorn said:

Cry more. Also the rift S is shit. Never said VR is shit. Whats also adorable is you'll be the first guy to go like SharpXB's comments and yet here you are saying this.

 

The Rift S is a nice device, perhaps it was crap for you but you can't make a blanket statement that would apply to everyone, as everything is very subjective and there are

so many different rigs out there. That is just asking for some to become defensive.

 

For some folks, they don't like the S and want nothing to do with it, whilst there are others that love the S and having a great time with it. 

Either way is fine, just no need for an "us versus them" type mentality to it, at least IMHO.

Reminds me when I was a youngster in my early teens. Some of my neighborhood buddies had Honda Motorcycles. I got a Kawasaki.

Course those Honda guys ganged up on me telling me how I had a crap motorcycle and why in the world did I not get a Honda. . At least until the day they challenged me to a race and I blew them away LOL. Dang that was a long time ago...

;)

 

 

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Well said dburne and spot on too!! To each there own. 

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, dburne said:

 

The Rift S is a nice device, perhaps it was crap for you but you can't make a blanket statement that would apply to everyone, as everything is very subjective and there are

so many different rigs out there. That is just asking for some to become defensive.

 

For some folks, they don't like the S and want nothing to do with it, whilst there are others that love the S and having a great time with it. 

Either way is fine, just no need for an "us versus them" type mentality to it, at least IMHO.

Reminds me when I was a youngster in my early teens. Some of my neighborhood buddies had Honda Motorcycles. I got a Kawasaki.

Course those Honda guys ganged up on me telling me how I had a crap motorcycle and why in the world did I not get a Honda. . At least until the day they challenged me to a race and I blew them away LOL. Dang that was a long time ago...

;)

 

 

Unfortunately the rift S isn't like your kawasaki, it's more akin to a moped. Also not a single thing you post here or on the DCS forums is subjective, how could it be when all you've ever used is a rift cv1 and a rift s? Let me know when you get something else so you can actually form an opinion without letting blind fanboyism guide your thoughts.

Edited by JonRedcorn

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Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, JonRedcorn said:

Unfortunately the rift S isn't like your kawasaki, it's more akin to a moped. Also not a single thing you post here or on the DCS forums is subjective, how could it be when all you've ever used is a rift cv1 and a rift s? Let me know when you get something else so you can actually form an opinion without letting blind fanboyism guide your thoughts.

 

Umm you might want to look up the definition of subjective.

I will refrain from the name calling.

 

Take care,

 

Edited by dburne
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1 hour ago, dburne said:

 

Umm you might want to look up the definition of subjective.

I will refrain from the name calling.

 

Take care,

 

Is calling you a fanboy really hurting your feelings... 🙄

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Just my opinion:

 

a month ago I bought Rift S (my first VR headset) and I am quite happy with that (though it not fulfills my idea of the ideal headset).  To tell the truth I wanted Index very much but after seeing and reading many reviews I finally decied not to buy it.

 

Here are my reasons:

1. The difference in quality is not worth the difference in price. Index is imho too overpriced (but if it was true next gen headset with foveated rendering I would surely buy it even for 1000$)

2. I mentaly settled to the conclusion that I buy not the best solution on the market but the decent one in order to became accustommed with VR and to have a headset my children can play with while I would not worry too much about they damage it (as I would in the case of the pricey Index).

3. As soon as the true 2. gen headset starts to be available I am going to buy it (and leave the Rift S completely to my children). Yes I know I will have to wait at least 1 year (hopefully not longer - finger crossed).

4. My 1080Ti is decent for the Rift S but for the headsets with larger displays 2080Ti would be much more recommended. That is the second main reason I personally decided to wait for the "top" VR solution. Hope the nVidia comes with RTX 3xxx generation next year and hopefully with the simiar price as today 2080Ti.

 

Conclusion: happily using Rift S I am waiting for the true 2.gen headset and 3xxx gen nvidia GC...

 

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