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Geronimo553

Chernobyl HBO mini series

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If you have not seen this great five episode mini series then you are missing out. Missing out on, a part of well guarded history and authenticity during the era of the Soviet Union. I give it a solid 10/10. 
 
Other small details not mentioned
-all the blue bus drivers later died.
-the helicopter crashed later but was added for video pacing.
-classic music played on the radios instead of news for days during the event.
 
 
 
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Aaah No. Western propaganda tarnishing achievements of Soviet Union and it's people.

 

I am waiting for russian movie explaining it was CIA who were responsible for the disaster.

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Excellent series, although very depressing.

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A great read detailing the actual events of every episode.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/screenrant.com/chernobyl-hbo-true-story-characters-aftermath-explained/amp/

 

 

8 minutes ago, sevenless said:

Excellent series, although very depressing.

 

The scariest and most depressing films are always from true events in history. It’s why so many run from the truth or hide from it using ideology. 

 

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Geronimo553 said:

 

Another good read (ánd actually a must read) about the disaster and aftermath is Svetlana Alexievich's  'Chernobyl Prayer':

 

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/apr/27/chernobyl-prayer-sveltana-alexievich-review-witnesses-speak

Edited by Uufflakke

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8 minutes ago, Uufflakke said:

Svetlana Alexievich's  'Chernobyl Prayer':

Essential reading. Hugely powerful book.

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A fantastic mini-series, with some outstanding performances all round. One stand out for me is Paul Ritter's portrayal of  Anatoly Dyatlov.

 

  1448226911_hbo-chernobyl-cast-true-story-paul-ritter(1).thumb.jpg.38d602f2101917e4833fb8a3c75864b3.jpg

His performance  epitomes arrogance, denial and disbelief  perfectly.  

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I really enjoyed the courtroom scene with the catalogue of events. Surprised the guy above didn't anticipate the xenon ? poisoning

a6e2f8daf120b54f869c6314d5d8bb449217064a

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2 hours ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

A fantastic mini-series, with some outstanding performances all round. One stand out for me is Paul Ritter's portrayal of  Anatoly Dyatlov.

 

  1448226911_hbo-chernobyl-cast-true-story-paul-ritter(1).thumb.jpg.38d602f2101917e4833fb8a3c75864b3.jpg

His performance  epitomes arrogance, denial and disbelief  perfectly.  

I'd like to add the director and chief engineer to that as well. That one meeting after the explosion...shivers..

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When I watched this show I realized something when I played Metro 2033 for the first time years ago. In the game Col. Miller walks up to a reactor control panel (like a desk with many large buttons) in D6 and says they designed these so even an idiot could understand them. So I wonder if he said that to reference the events and human error leading to the Chernobyl disaster. 

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I would like to watch this series. Unfortunately, in the UK we have to have sky... :angry:

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2 hours ago, No.85_Camm said:

I would like to watch this series. Unfortunately, in the UK we have to have sky... :angry:

 

You can get a now tv subscription for less than a tenner a month and binge watch them on your pc or tablet/phone if you download the app, then cancel your 30 day pass. in fact I think the first 30 days is free, so you could watch it without having to pay a penny.

 

I did this for Chernobyl and GoT season 8

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2 hours ago, No.85_Camm said:

I would like to watch this series. Unfortunately, in the UK we have to have sky... :angry:

Download it... trust me, it is one of the best things I've seen for a long long time.

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3.6 roentgen. Not great, not terrible. 

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Go_Pre said:

3.6 roentgen. Not great, not terrible. 

Depends. Context?

 

chernobylcaesium-600.gif

 

My professor at the University remembered well when the gamma counter in the labs suddenly went off scale around noon on April 30th. This was at the U of Zurich, Switzerland. As soon as you opened the windows, off they went. An event scary enough to never forget. 

Edited by ZachariasX
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51 minutes ago, ZachariasX said:

Depends. Context?

 

chernobylcaesium-600.gif

 

My professor at the University remembered well when the gamma counter in the labs suddenly went off scale around noon on April 30th. This was at the U of Zurich, Switzerland. As soon as you opened the windows, off they went. An event scary enough to never forget. 

 

Nice graphic. Here (in Bulgaria) the media kept silent. The party held the traditional parade on May 1., 1986. It was raining on that day.

 

chernobil-1-5-1986_BG.jpg

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43 minutes ago, SCG_OpticFlow said:

Here (in Bulgaria) the media kept silent. The party held the traditional parade on May 1., 1986. It was raining on that day.

 

Yes Ushanka Show talked about little details like that. Very unfortunate for the people and reckless of the government. He has other videos about Chernobyl but it would not be a good idea to share them here. Check them out on his channel if interested.

 

 

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3 hours ago, ZachariasX said:

My professor at the University remembered well when the gamma counter in the labs suddenly went off scale around noon on April 30th. This was at the U of Zurich, Switzerland. As soon as you opened the windows, off they went. An event scary enough to never forget. 

 

It is scary, but using a Geiger counter on a long flight in the polar regions at high altitudes will make you reconsider some career-options, too.

Most of that stuff up there is cosmic, fast beta particles, so it's not to be taken too lightly, either.

 

The problem with radioactivity is that most people don't understand it and thus are easily scared of them death-rays.

It's just another thing that will kill you (like drinking bleach), given enough dosage per time. It will also not kill you and not *certainly evoke* cancer later in your life in less than critical dosages.

 

Chernobyl was a colossal duck-up on many levels (and it does have parallels to other high profile disasters in the West, like the early DC-10 issues*, Challenger, Columbia and most recently, the 737 MAX issues**).

 

Fun Fact about CS 137:

Quote

Accidental ingestion of caesium-137 can be treated with Prussian blue, which binds to it chemically and reduces the biological half-life to 30 days.

 

 

____

* The known issues with DC-10's cargo door locking-mechanism and the weak floor-structure had been known by MDD prior to the Windsor incident. In fact, a door blew during ground testng, buckling the floor panels and a necessity for improvement was identified by engineering-staff. There even was a memo by Convair (the contractor for the cargo door IIRC) stating that the door was unsafe and that management was putting undue pressure to take the existing design into action.

What is a macabre parallel about the DC-10 and the MAX crashes is the following: The two MAX crashes have killed the exact same amount of people (346) as the single DC-10 crash at Ermenonville in 1974.

 

** I do realize the different magnitudes - they were all caused by a very similar root-cause, however: Management making engineering-decisions and management imposing pressure to succeed on timelines that are nowhere near realistic. Also, a toxic safety-culture and a "what could possibly go wrong" attitude in management.

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1 hour ago, Bremspropeller said:

 

It is scary, but using a Geiger counter on a long flight in the polar regions at high altitudes will make you reconsider some career-options, too.

Most of that stuff up there is cosmic, fast beta particles, so it's not to be taken too lightly, either.

 

The problem with radioactivity is that most people don't understand it and thus are easily scared of them death-rays.

It's just another thing that will kill you (like drinking bleach), given enough dosage per time. It will also not kill you and not *certainly evoke* cancer later in your life in less than critical dosages. 

 

Chernobyl was a colossal duck-up on many levels (and it does have parallels to other high profile disasters in the West, like the early DC-10 issues*, Challenger, Columbia and most recently, the 737 MAX issues**).

 

Fun Fact about CS 137:

 

 

____

* The known issues with DC-10's cargo door locking-mechanism and the weak floor-structure had been known by MDD prior to the Windsor incident. In fact, a door blew during ground testng, buckling the floor panels and a necessity for improvement was identified by engineering-staff. There even was a memo by Convair (the contractor for the cargo door IIRC) stating that the door was unsafe and that management was putting undue pressure to take the existing design into action.

What is a macabre parallel about the DC-10 and the MAX crashes is the following: The two MAX crashes have killed the exact same amount of people (346) as the single DC-10 crash at Ermenonville in 1974.

 

** I do realize the different magnitudes - they were all caused by a very similar root-cause, however: Management making engineering-decisions and management imposing pressure to succeed on timelines that are nowhere near realistic. Also, a toxic safety-culture and a "what could possibly go wrong" attitude in management.

 

"What is the cost of lies? It’s not that we will mistake them for the truth. The real danger is that, if we hear enough lies, then we no longer recognize the truth at all. What can we do then? What else is left but to abandon even the hope of truth and content ourselves instead with stories? In these stories, it doesn’t matter who the heroes are. All we want to know is who is to blame." -- the opening quote from the TV Series

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50 minutes ago, Bremspropeller said:

The problem with radioactivity is that most people don't understand it and thus are easily scared of them death-rays.

It is always of help if you know what it is that you‘re actually seeing.

 

Gamma detectors a used for safety checks if you are contaminated see any kind of decay, as any decay produces gamma rays.

 

Your body is very transparent to gamma rays. This is why you can take x-ray images. Only a small fraction gets absorbed by your body and only that part is cooking you. Aluminum is a rather good shield for charged particles, hence what goes through are hull is in general thing that also pass through you.

 

Coming to the scary part: On the other hand, if you increase the caliber (same as with guns) your body absorbs more of the energy, making beta particles much more dangerous, even though they travel only about 10 cm through air. Alpha particles are even worse. (Helium atoms are to electrons what 88 cm caliber is to 0.303).

 

This is why your one and only rule about the home use of radioactivity is:

 

“Thou shalt not eat it!“

 

This is easier said than done. When you eat radioactivity, the really bad stuff can hurt you now in full. Out there, you’re shielded by the air. In case of the lab safety Geiger counters, that just showed them that something was around, and that something was burnt reactor core in the form of dust that everybody outside was inhaling. For practical purposes this equals eating. And remember the one rule?

 

When you eat decaying isotopes, you enjoy the full variation of decay processes along with the often very poisonous intermediate isotopes. That‘s the moment when you call your folks and tell them to close their windows ASAP.

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, SCG_OpticFlow said:

 

"What is the cost of lies? It’s not that we will mistake them for the truth. The real danger is that, if we hear enough lies, then we no longer recognize the truth at all. What can we do then? What else is left but to abandon even the hope of truth and content ourselves instead with stories? In these stories, it doesn’t matter who the heroes are. All we want to know is who is to blame." -- the opening quote from the TV Series

 

And those words remain true no matter what part of the world as it is the same lies everywhere. Humans resent two things most, waiting and being embarrassed. Fixing something requires both.

Edited by Geronimo553

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9 minutes ago, ZachariasX said:

Aluminum is a rather good shield for charged particles, hence what goes through are hull is in general thing that also pass through you.

 

True, but the issue here lies with the fact that they will also emit Bremsstrahlung while either passing through (and being altered in trajectory) or by bouncing back.

Depending on the amount of deflection, there might be harmless long-waved radiation, but also X-ray or even gamma ray secondary emissions.

The effect squares over altitude (it's linked to the density-distribution within the atmosphere) and will really take-off once you leave the magnetosphere.

In spacehab design, water is currently held as the most efficient absorbant for cosmic radiation.

 

13 minutes ago, ZachariasX said:

Coming to the scary part: On the other hand, if you increase the caliber (same as with guns) your body absorbs more of the energy, making beta particles much more dangerous, even though they travel only about 10 cm through air. Alpha particles are even worse. (Helium atoms are to electrons what 88 cm caliber is to 0.303).

 

I think the 10cm value is for alpha particles (which mostly can be absorbed by a sheet of paper) - beta particles are usually travelling a couple of meters at sea-level pressure.

That's at least what I learned a couple of moons ago...

 

When my physics class in high-school was at the nuclear powerplant simulator (yes, that's a thing!) back then, we had a talk about the dangers of radiation and one of the personnel jokingly said that most people are against nuclear power, while happily enjoying a cigarette which has several nasty isotopes in it's smoke (e.g. polonium 210, which starts with an alpha-decay - in case anybody ever wondered where lung-cancer came from).

 

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, SCG_OpticFlow said:

... All we want to know is who is to blame.

 

I know a lot of people who just want to fix a problem when it pops up, and are not looking for someone to blame. I disagree with that bottom line.

Edited by JtD

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30 minutes ago, JtD said:

I know a lot of people who just want to fix a problem when it pops up, and are not looking for someone to blame. I disagree with that bottom line.

 

I think it's directed towards the culture that was common in the Soviet Union rather an blanket statement over all mankind.

The way of thinking still exists today in a lot of countries, but I'd rather not take the political path here...

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5 hours ago, SCG_OpticFlow said:

 

Nice graphic. Here (in Bulgaria) the media kept silent. The party held the traditional parade on May 1., 1986. It was raining on that day.

 

chernobil-1-5-1986_BG.jpg

 

They made them hold it in Kiev too but there everyone knew something had gone desperately wrong:(

 

It just takes you back to that time over three decades ago....seems almost like a dream now.

 

What a miserable thing the Soviet Union was. 

 

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9 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

 

They made them hold it in Kiev too but there everyone knew something had gone desperately wrong:(

 

It just takes you back to that time over three decades ago....seems almost like a dream now.

 

Unfortunately, even after the fall of the USSR, withholding vital information about nuclear disasters was still considered a good idea by some people as recently as 2011. The Japanese government was more concerned with saving face than looking after people who they knew were being exposed to high amounts of radiation during the 3.11 triple disaster: https://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/09/world/asia/09japan.html?_r=1

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1 hour ago, JtD said:

 

I know a lot of people who just want to fix a problem when it pops up, and are not looking for someone to blame. I disagree with that bottom line.

 

Of course there are. Even in the series, most of the main characters were trying to fix the problems despite the denial and cover-up by the state officials.

 

I believe those lines of Legasov were directed against the official policy of the state in general and more specifically about the information he withheld from the International Atomic Energy Agency during the meeting in Vienna in August 1986 (about the graphite-tipped control rods in the emergency shutdown system, that instead of slowing down the reaction, increased it until it exploded).

52 minutes ago, [Pb]Cybermat47 said:

 

Unfortunately, even after the fall of the USSR, withholding vital information about nuclear disasters was still considered a good idea by some people as recently as 2011. The Japanese government was more concerned with saving face than looking after people who they knew were being exposed to high amounts of radiation during the 3.11 triple disaster: https://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/09/world/asia/09japan.html?_r=1

 

Yes, the same universal instinct of the bureaucrat -- silence, denial, finding someone else to blame. Better thousands to suffer or even die instead of admitting fault and taking responsibility. Same pattern with the Boeing 737 MAX accidents.

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9 hours ago, ZachariasX said:

Depends. Context?

 

chernobylcaesium-600.gif

 

My professor at the University remembered well when the gamma counter in the labs suddenly went off scale around noon on April 30th. This was at the U of Zurich, Switzerland. As soon as you opened the windows, off they went. An event scary enough to never forget. 

 

It’s an (already) legendary quote from the mini-series. 

 

It’s ironic because...well just watch the show. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Go_Pre said:

It’s an (already) legendary quote from the mini-series. 

 

It’s ironic because...well just watch the show. 

I will once HBO will make that possible for me. Looking forward watching it.

 

2 hours ago, Bremspropeller said:

I think the 10cm value is for alpha particles (which mostly can be absorbed by a sheet of paper) - beta particles are usually travelling a couple of meters at sea-level pressure.

 

You are right. Too many moons... Still, message is, if you leave it on the ground where you found it, you‘re fine.

 

All that one learns as a student... even in the dorms, not just the courses. „If it walks out of the fridge, then let it go.“

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"Biorobots" cleaning the roof (watch the series to learn how it came to that):

 

 

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, SCG_OpticFlow said:

"Biorobots" cleaning the roof (watch the series to learn how it came to that):

 

Under no circumstances will we put people on that roof... 

Edited by Geronimo553

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Anyone else having trouble watching episode 5? Everytime I try to watch it the sound is super slow and demonic sounding.

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Posted (edited)

A great follow up for any bookish members is Voices from Chernobyl which were first hand interviews conducted immediately after and in the years following the disaster, a lot of those stories such as the fireman and his wife were taken from that work.

Edited by Dachshund
Spelling.

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Halfway in the series I am a bit torn whether I like it or not. As a miniseries, it checks out well, there is lots of attention to detail with enough suspense to appeal to a wide audience.

 

However.

 

It is not really about the problems you face with ionizing radiation.

It is not a documentary as such.

 

Still, the attention to detail is screaming at anyone thinking himself knowledgeable on the subject. The problem with that is it produces details that are much more gospel than fact, like the supposedly lethally irradiated folks on the highway bridge. That can reinforce a belief in false accounts, no matter colorful they might be.

 

A nuclear mess is a mess that is as boring as it is hazardous. They had to make the reactor produce black smoke for days to put "reality" in obvious contrast with the "soviet way of covering things up", whereas in all other cases where an “unexplodable” reactor exploded, the following countries were straightforward about the happenings: *checks notes*... Ehhhm, can't find any. But man, those Soviets weren't they evil and incompetent?

 

Now you have to make a show about something that affects a whole continent but you cannot hear it, you cannot feel it, you cannot taste it. All you have is a partly collapsed and smoking (it was producing white smoke and the really bad stuff was invisible) building. If you entered that building, you'd die miserably. If you were close to that building, you better leave soon and shave off your hair before you leave. But you have to leave. As for thousands of residents... just have to leave as well. If it wasn't for an impressive bang initially, it is extremely anticlimactic. But to make the series work, you have to create suspense.

 

As a dramaturgic result, you turn a faithful apparatchik scientist into a naïve idiot boffin, and give him a nerdy sidekick that is essentially a gender compatible amalgam of several persons. You let Soviet apparatchiks give Hollywood like prep talk and off to hell go the "volunteers". I work professionally with plenty of Russians, but none of them act like that. Also Legasovs suicide note is less definite about things.

 

It has been years since I've worked with radioactivity and while forgetting a lot about it, one thing I will never forget. Namely working in an absolutely clean way with something you cannot see, hear, or taste. All you can do is checking after the fact. It is a silent monster.

 

This silence is obviously frustrating any attempt to grasp its impact. The arguments about "how many people died" (as if that was the only unhealthy thing people were exposed to) or "how bad is it" can never be resolved when you have intuitively absolutely nothing to gauge your mess at hands. It asks for coming up with terrible things that may or may not have happened.

 

As I see it, you have two meaningful ways to tackle the topic. One is very detailed about physics and how a reactor works. The other is the humane catastrophe, namely some officer knocking at your door telling you and your family follow him right now and enter a bus bringing you hundreds of kilometers away while leaving everything behind. Permanently. The third way then is entertainment. And on this the show does very well. But while I enjoy watching the show as it is, I think the show should be taken with a grain of salt. Or a glass of vodka.

 

 

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Watched the first episode in bed, got depressed, and stopped watching. A few weeks later watched the rest of the series and it was excellent!

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On 6/21/2019 at 1:07 PM, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

A fantastic mini-series, with some outstanding performances all round. One stand out for me is Paul Ritter's portrayal of  Anatoly Dyatlov.

 

  1448226911_hbo-chernobyl-cast-true-story-paul-ritter(1).thumb.jpg.38d602f2101917e4833fb8a3c75864b3.jpg

His performance  epitomes arrogance, denial and disbelief  perfectly.  

 

3.6 Roentgen. Not Great, Not Terrible.

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2 minutes ago, SCG_OpticFlow said:

Not Great, Not Terrible.

He's delusional, take him to the infirmary.

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11 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

He's delusional, take him to the infirmary.

 

You DIDN'T See Graphite on the Ground Because It's Not There!

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34 minutes ago, SCG_OpticFlow said:

 

You DIDN'T See Graphite on the Ground Because It's Not There!

Safety first....I've been say that for 25 years. ( Proceeds to power up reactor with suspected Xeon poisoning) 

An interesting interview with Anatoly Dyatlov about a year before he died.

 

 

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