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Rekt

Are High Altitudes Portrayed Accurately in the Sim?

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Disclaimer: I'm not an aeronautical engineer and I'm not trying to throw a Baby Ruth in anybody's swimming pool. I also realize that equal-energy head to head dogfights are not a good measure of an aircraft's real-world capability.

 

THAT SAID, I was really surprised and disappointed by the P-47's performance against the Yak-1B at 10KM. From what I had read about the P-47's power and maneuverability at high altitudes, I'd sort of expected it to just pull away from the Yak at will, as well as simply outturn it since the Yak was basically at its service ceiling and gasping for air.

 

Quite the opposite was true. The Yak had no problem getting onto the P-47's tail, whether the AI was flying it or I was. I tried different strategies: immediately turning at the merge, blowing through the merge into a shallow dive and trying to come back at higher speed, and (the AI's favorite tactic) an immediate split-s and zoom climb to shoot. In all these cases the Yak was able to compete, no problem. Even at 300 mph IAS the P-47 would snap into an accelerated stall very easily (seems odd to me...I know the air is thin up there but that's why we rely on indicated airspeeds). I was able to dive away from the Yak as one might expect.

 

Most combat is down low on BoX so this question is mostly academic. I guess the feeling I'm coming away with is that it was pointless for Republic to put all that effort, weight, and volume into installing a huge turbo in the P-47 to perform at high altitude if they could have instead just strapped an average V12 with a 2-speed supercharger to a light airframe and called it good.

 

If the sim's portrayal of the atmosphere at high altitude is legit, what am I missing/doing wrong?

 

(P-47 throttle wide open, prop.100%, boost button pressed, turbo linked to the throttle or adjusted manually to keep the light blinking.)

 

 

 

 

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My biggest issue with high altitude flight is not being able to see critical buildings below because they are out of render distance. I like to do level bombing. 

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My jaw dropped when G-2 was overtaking P-47 at 11km. That was last TAW so there is some time from that, and maybe it is different in this version. 

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I believe there is an issue with the earlier modeled planes over performing at extremely high altitudes, especially the la5s. Hopefully it gets corrected. In the meantime documentation and evidence submitted to the devs is all we can do.

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The problem in my mind is that the power advantage at those higher altitudes does not seem to make up the difference in energy bleed when trying to maneuver up there.

 

Planes that should be struggling with power at high altitude aren't struggling enough and their turn advantage and energy retention in a turn is not negated enough to allow more than head on passes in a 1v1 situation after long extension or drag n bag with a wingman when flying against them. 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Rekt said:

Disclaimer: I'm not an aeronautical engineer and I'm not trying to throw a Baby Ruth in anybody's swimming pool. I also realize that equal-energy head to head dogfights are not a good measure of an aircraft's real-world capability.

 

THAT SAID, I was really surprised and disappointed by the P-47's performance against the Yak-1B at 10KM. From what I had read about the P-47's power and maneuverability at high altitudes, I'd sort of expected it to just pull away from the Yak at will, as well as simply outturn it since the Yak was basically at its service ceiling and gasping for air.

 

Quite the opposite was true. The Yak had no problem getting onto the P-47's tail, whether the AI was flying it or I was. I tried different strategies: immediately turning at the merge, blowing through the merge into a shallow dive and trying to come back at higher speed, and (the AI's favorite tactic) an immediate split-s and zoom climb to shoot. In all these cases the Yak was able to compete, no problem. Even at 300 mph IAS the P-47 would snap into an accelerated stall very easily (seems odd to me...I know the air is thin up there but that's why we rely on indicated airspeeds). I was able to dive away from the Yak as one might expect.

 

Most combat is down low on BoX so this question is mostly academic. I guess the feeling I'm coming away with is that it was pointless for Republic to put all that effort, weight, and volume into installing a huge turbo in the P-47 to perform at high altitude if they could have instead just strapped an average V12 with a 2-speed supercharger to a light airframe and called it good.

 

If the sim's portrayal of the atmosphere at high altitude is legit, what am I missing/doing wrong?

 

(P-47 throttle wide open, prop.100%, boost button pressed, turbo linked to the throttle or adjusted manually to keep the light blinking.)

 

 

 

 

Before the patch you could go in emergancy mode and do ~382kmhIAS at 10km, and on combat ~374IAS, now i see you can do only combat mode at 10km and not able to enter in emergancy mode so that changed, but your still ~100kmh faster then yak1b at 10km and i was able to run away from it that high even only using combat mode on P-47.

Also no problem outturning yak with P-47, but it was just ai set on ace so vs human it would be probably differant.

What you can do is turn of auto rpm, and adjust it manualy to up to 3000rpm, and youl be even faster, up to 395kmh ias at 10km and still in combat mode, but it eats that combat mode faster so insted ~15min you have it only for ~10min (on expert mode afcorse you would not know that, as expired/recovered messages are still only ones out of 200+ that are not showing! as you should be able to calculate on fly in df that if you use this MP and that rpm your fantasy time will be reduced by that % its just what expert players do in video game unlike real pilots did, but god forbid they are not informed that they opened canopy or pull stick to hard and will stall). 

But its P-47, it had realy bad and fragile engines that recovered half as fast compared to other airplanes it was facing, and was not so great up high and was bad at dives, is what game is saying, great for 5min turn type df at low alt and for skin work when left in hangar.

Edited by 77.CountZero

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18 minutes ago, 77.CountZero said:

Before the patch you could go in emergancy mode and do ~382kmhIAS at 10km, and on combat ~374IAS, now i see you can do only combat mode at 10km and not able to enter in emergancy mode so that changed

 

 

I noticed this too, thanks for confirming I'm not crazy🤣

 

18 minutes ago, 77.CountZero said:

, but your still ~100kmh faster then yak1b at 10km and i was able to run away from it that high even only using combat mode on P-47.

Also no problem outturning yak with P-47, but it was just ai set on ace so vs human it would be probably differant.

 

Not sure what I am doing wrong with turning, then. If you have a track or  something that would be great to see.

 

18 minutes ago, 77.CountZero said:

 

What you can do is turn of auto rpm, and adjust it manualy to up to 3000rpm,

 

For what it's worth, I don't use any of the automatic engine stuff. 👍

 

18 minutes ago, 77.CountZero said:

and youl be even faster, up to 395kmh ias at 10km and still in combat mode, but it eats that combat mode faster so insted ~15min you have it only for ~10min. 

But its P-47, it had realy bad and fragile engines that recovered half as fast compared to other airplanes it was facing, and was not so great up high and was bad at dives, is what game is saying, great for 5min turn type df at low alt and for skin work when left in hangar.

 

😭 Agreed.

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Posted (edited)
Just now, Rekt said:

 

...

Not sure what I am doing wrong with turning, then. If you have a track or  something that would be great to see.

 

 

...

you drop your flaps as low as you need, ai yak dont do that, even up high p-47 super flaps do the work, also when runing from it he cant falow in slow climbs even

Edited by 77.CountZero

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1 minute ago, 77.CountZero said:

you drop your flaps as low as you need, ai yak dont do that

 

Ah yes thanks!

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Rekt said:

 

...

For what it's worth, I don't use any of the automatic engine stuff. 👍

...

im not saying to turn off realisam auto engine control (if thats what you ment), im saying turn off engine auto prop pitch (its switch propeler pitch control mode aauto to manual key i dont know on what its set by default) that your controling by default by engine propeler rpm keys, then you can manualy adjust prop pitch and get rpm from 2700 that rpm governor is limiting to, to what you wont abow it. And below ~8km there isent mutch to gain so its good to have it auto, only helps on high alts.

Edited by 77.CountZero
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Posted (edited)

P-47 is not properly modelled. It should be master of high altutudes but German planes like D-9 or K-4 do whatever they want with P-47. P-47 should reach 680 kph at 10.000 m.

Edited by Blackmessiah1975
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There seem to be issues with the Me 262 at high altitudes too. I can't get it above 10,000 m without using emergency power, and if you throttle back to max continuous RPM (8,400) at that altitude, the engines flame out immediately. The notes claim a service ceiling of 12,000 m.

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58 minutes ago, AndyJWest said:

There seem to be issues with the Me 262 at high altitudes too. I can't get it above 10,000 m without using emergency power, and if you throttle back to max continuous RPM (8,400) at that altitude, the engines flame out immediately. The notes claim a service ceiling of 12,000 m.

 

They also will stall if you make all but the most incremental control inputs in the pitch axis, when at that altitude.

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Best I get in the 262 50% fuel is 11,500m at 8700RPM. Interestingly JPT at 11000m is only 400 degrees which imo is strangely low. Simple turbojets tend to get jpt limited at altitude in many cases requiring throttle reduction to keep jpt in limits (RR Viper anyway).

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