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RedKestrel

3.101 - New Startup Procedures

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1 minute ago, =CFC=Conky said:

Hello all,

 

I think the manual starting feature is fine for players who are into that type of stuff.

 

Personally, I prefer automatic starts when playing. I start aircraft engines for a living, so when I'm 'playing' at aviation, I'd rather avoid the stuff that occurs when the kite isn't moving. Taxiing is fine, Box models this quite well in fact, complex engine management in flight? Sure. But starting? Meh for me. One of the things I like about BoX is that the time it takes for the mill to start up when you hit E isn't too short, so it doesn't give players an advantage over players who use manual start in online servers.

 

Conky

 

Exactly, some people enjoy the additional buttons to achieve the same automatic start up and some people just want the same automatic start up the game has always had. I see no reason why the individual cannot choose this choice/option in their own game settings. 

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23 minutes ago, Geronimo553 said:

 

Exactly, some people enjoy the additional buttons to achieve the same automatic start up and some people just want the same automatic start up the game has always had. I see no reason why the individual cannot choose this choice/option in their own game settings. 

They can... :fly:

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Am I missing something here?    The only difference in the startup I am aware of is that you need to check the RPM & Mixture is 100% & throttle is 10% before pressing 'E'.   Does anybody here actually fly without checking what the RPM & Mixture & throttle are set at?  Complaining that it is inconvenient is like complaining that your oven wont start unless you have set a temperature. You have to do it at some point.   I see people complain that they did not have to do these things before and the new system adds extra steps for no real gain in realism but you *did* do these things before, only you did them after pressing 'E' (and if you did not do them at some point before taxiing then you really should not be turning off engine aids!)

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12 minutes ago, 56RAF_Roblex said:

Am I missing something here?    The only difference in the startup I am aware of is that you need to check the RPM & Mixture is 100% & throttle is 10% before pressing 'E'.   Does anybody here actually fly without checking what the RPM & Mixture & throttle are set at?  Complaining that it is inconvenient is like complaining that your oven wont start unless you have set a temperature. You have to do it at some point.   I see people complain that they did not have to do these things before and the new system adds extra steps for no real gain in realism but you *did* do these things before, only you did them after pressing 'E' (and if you did not do them at some point before taxiing then you really should not be turning off engine aids!)

 

Also as far as I'm aware when this game came out we had to increase the mixture and rpm to get a successful start. Although they did patch that out about a year ago to make it more easy.  So basically the devs have gone back to what we originally had but in a better way.

 

 

And having the aditional separate buttons for the igniters on the 262 makes a lot of sence as these engines are likely to flame out. Restarting them in flight with igniter buttons would be a lot more easy then mucking around with the engine select button and then E.

 

 

Edited by AeroAce

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6 minutes ago, 56RAF_Roblex said:

Am I missing something here?    

 

Unfortunately you are not missing anything.. hit the nail square on the head. :dash:  

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1 hour ago, JgonRedcorn said:

So if an airfield is being raided by the enemy team and there's say DCS manual engine start up procedures, the guy that has to do that all manually under pressure has no disadvantage to the guy who can just press e? Doesn't sound like it. Sounds like a pretty large gameplay advantage to me. How about if you don't like the servers rules don't play on that server? Easy enough.

It's a gameplay advantage against someone on your own team (and you're not competing against team members), which is not the same thing as a gameplay advantage against someone on the enemy team who you are competing against. That is why I like a server being able to enforce options that affect aids/helpers for flight. As you would know during the engine start, taxi, and initial takeoff process you're a sitting duck so you should expect to die before getting airborne most of the time if there is a raid on your airfield.

 

It's probably not a good idea to spawn in during an airfield raid, but in this scenario the guy who knows how to do the manual startup doesn't need to go through it because the automatic option is available to him, so he could choose to do the automatic start this time and be on his way as fast as possible along with the other guy who did an automatic startup. Two fighters can possibly get airborne and maybe do something about the raid.

 

Meanwhile, if the server was enforced for manual starts only the guy who is unfamiliar and only does auto starts either doesn't exist on the server (since he won't play on it) or possibly won't get airborne to help out because of it.

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8 minutes ago, 56RAF_Roblex said:

Am I missing something here?    The only difference in the startup I am aware of is that you need to check the RPM & Mixture is 100% & throttle is 10% before pressing 'E'.   Does anybody here actually fly without checking what the RPM & Mixture & throttle are set at?  Complaining that it is inconvenient is like complaining that your oven wont start unless you have set a temperature. You have to do it at some point.   I see people complain that they did not have to do these things before and the new system adds extra steps for no real gain in realism but you *did* do these things before, only you did them after pressing 'E' (and if you did not do them at some point before taxiing then you really should not be turning off engine aids!)

yes your missing a barn with a howicer

 

before i press E and all is started automaticly, no i didnt have to set 100% mix on spit or p-47 or yak or lagg3 its done automaticly

 

now i press E and all other 10-20 things are done automaticly exept i now have to press mix to 100%, how is this increasing my imersion, how one thing that needs to be done manualy now makes differance betwen rookies and experts

 

after i done this 10 times i dont see why is this change neccesary or why im now not able to play on same level as experts who know how to press 2 keys and repet that like monkey or parrot

 

Edited by 77.CountZero
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39 minutes ago, 77.CountZero said:

yes your missing a barn with a howicer

 

before i press E and all is started automaticly, no i didnt have to set 100% mix on spit or p-47 or yak or lagg3 its done automaticly

 

now i press E and all other 10-20 things are done automaticly exept i now have to press mix to 100%, how is this increasing my imersion, how one thing that needs to be done manualy now makes differance betwen rookies and experts

 

after i done this 10 times i dont see why is this change neccesary or why im now not able to play on same level as experts who know how to press 2 keys and repet that like monkey or parrot

 

 

Because pal, real flying involves pressing keys and flipping switches and doing it in sequences and specific orders. This is a simulator that aims to be realistic in nearly all aspects of combat aviation. If we had to flip every switch on start up (like dcs) I wouldn’t complain because that’s how the aircraft operates. I don’t mind the current system we have had for simple start ups because flipping switches in a sim is waaay more of a hassle than real life. As you have to use head controls and a mouse rather than your own eyes and fingers so it’s a nice compromise to just press E.  

 

However as countless people have said now. This new update to the process isn’t even adding something that adds seconds to the process, no switches, no looking for keys. Just bind a key or axis for rads and rpm (which you should have already) and voila! :dash:

 

Edited by Bullets

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Now that I tried out the new procedure a few times I noticed even as a amateur one thing.

IL2 used to take the control away from the throttle on engine start, which did annoy me.

Now I´m a strong independent pilot who is finally allowed to push around the throttle myself!

Edited by [N.O.G.F]Leon_Portier
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3 minutes ago, [N.O.G.F]Leon_Portier said:

Now that I tried out the new procedure a few times I noticed even as a amateur one thing.

IL2 used to take the control away from the throttle on engine start, which did annoy me.

Now I´m a strong independent pilot who is finally allowed to push around the throttle myself!

*sniff* They grow up so fast!!! *sobbing*
 

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So, all this drama over:

 

Old system:

 

1. Press E

2. Adjust mixture and rpm

 

New system:

 

1. Adjust mixture and rpm

2. Press E

 

This has to be one of the most absurd (if not the most) arguments I've ever seen on a flightsim forum. 

Edited by LukeFF
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13 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

So, all this drama over:

 

Old system:

 

1. Press E

2. Adjust mixture and rpm

 

New system:

 

1. Adjust mixture and rpm

2. Press E

 

This has to be one of the most absurd (if not the most) arguments I've ever seen on a flightsim forum. 

I look back on the me that existed before starting this thread and I envy him. The only reason I haven't just deleted it at this point is that the first page basically explains everything already and I don't want to lose it. 
 

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18 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

So, all this drama over:

 

This has to be one of the most absurd (if not the most) arguments I've ever seen on a flightsim forum. 

 

The only reason this could even be considered an "argument" is because someone insists to keep posting about why the start up system is perfect and no one could possibility dislike it after it was blanket applied to the game. Instead of agreeing everyone has differences in their gameplay preferences and agreeing the game should provide options for everyone. We have to continually rehash why it is an issue at all because someone sees the preferences of others as meaningless. If only the community could come together instead of individuals riding their high horses mocking others by saying the game is perfect and everyone else just needs to accept it...

People want the choice to use the new start up system and people want the choice not to use it. It is quite simple to understand. 

Edited by Geronimo553

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For some reason I keep sitting on 100% throttle while the old tractor starts up and then launch across the AF into Trees, bunkers, trucks etc.

( Getting good at dodging things...)

Definitely not going to win the war in this fashion.

I will have to write note on my hand, tie a knot in my handkerchief and glue a post-it note to the dash board.

Reading the map while starting up is part of the problem...

 

I do like the ability to wiggle my controls before pressing Engine start.

This makes me feel assured they are actually working. : - )

 

Salute!

 

Planky.

 

 

 

 

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Just some potentially interesting stats at this point:

 

I count 40 characters per line (viewing this thread on my smartphone browser) and 339 individual lines of text in the posts on the first page (excludes quoted text already entered in previous posts). 

 

So just rounding to the lowest hundredth, let's call that an average of 13,500 characters per page - or key presses, and excluding pressing the shift key for capital letters, to stay conservative.

 

With this post being on page 4, we have 3 full pages in the thread for over 40,000 total key presses. 

 

But going from 1 key press for engine start to 3 presses requires us to divide back by 3, yielding an equivalent of 13,500 engine starts that have been acheived in this thread alone.  And if we halve that number, we get 6,750 engine starts for folks on either side of the pro/con discussion. 

 

I haven't looked but there's usually a handful of folks on each side in these discussions so let's figure they all get 1000 engine starts each (and growing).  Given that we have some extremely skilled pilots with commensurate survival rates, that could be enough for a whole year's worth of flying at 2.7 flights a day, others not so much.

 

My math or logic could be wrong I dunno.

 

Edited by Stoopy
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At this point we ve beaten the topic to death. We know how it works in game and any changes people want to how it works can be requested in a new thread on the suggestions forum. I’m requesting this thread be locked. 

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