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CUJO_1970

Please get rid of the awful swastika stand-in

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Please get rid of the awful swastika stand in. Replace it with....nothing.

 

It looks awful, it is distracting and ruins the hard work put in to making a good skin. Please just leave the tail blank as it is a much more eloquent solution.

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As a counter, I prefer it to nothing.

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I agree, and as a bonus it will look more authentic because some historical skins don't even have a swastica on a rudder.

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I prefer it to having the empty space in the rudder to be honest. And it's much better than the normal balkenkreuz that's sometimes used.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:

I prefer it to having the empty space in the rudder to be honest.

 

Agreed. And heck, there's at least one restored Bf 109 out there right now that uses this same substitute swastika. 

Edited by LukeFF

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22 hours ago, CUJO_1970 said:

Please get rid of the awful swastika stand in. Replace it with....nothing.

 

It looks awful, it is distracting and ruins the hard work put in to making a good skin. Please just leave the tail blank as it is a much more eloquent solution.

 

I agree completely, better if there was nothing there, looks silly with the stand in.:salute:

 

 

Wishing you all the very best, Pete.:biggrin:

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The four bars symbol is a waste of time. Everyone knows what it represents. It's in the same league as f**k. Doesn't conceal anything. If you can't stand to see/say the real thing (and I appreciate that this is a country issue, not a personal one) then get rid of it altogether please.

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The community voted for this option in a poll very early in the development process.  I voted for it at the time.  Now I wish that I had voted for leaving it blank.

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I voted "nothing" and still trend that way. I have always considered it very odd. One of the few things I decidedly break with the Dev's over.

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I agree that it is rather odd. A blank surface with no symbol is generally much less noticeable. 

 

However, reworking all the skins probably wouldn’t be worthwhile unless accompanied by a decal system for completely customizable markings.

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Posted (edited)

Reworking the skins likely means redoing a small parch/area to a single layer. Probably two minutes per skin by a skilled skinner.

Edited by II/JG17_HerrMurf
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23 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

Agreed. And heck, there's at least one restored Bf 109 out there right now that uses this same substitute swastika. 

 

And it looks absolutely awful.

The stand-in ruins screenshots and videos as well. Completely distracting and takes away from otherwise beautiful work done by the talented skinners.

 

Please do away with the swastika stand-in. Please make the tails of Luftwaffe aircraft blank with no symbol.

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The only problem is that the community voted for this.  It wasn’t a dev decision.  You’re going to have to convince them to take another poll.  Good luck with that.

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Il2 has come a very long way since it's early days,  I would rather nothing on the tail than those bars.

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Of all the Fakenkreutz options, I figured it looks the best. Definitely Xs or diamonds or some other symbol looks worse and blank looks, well blank. 

Not worth revisiting, yeah it was already voted on. 

 

Worse issues exist with skinning mainly that that the whole system is a mess and there was probably no point in even having skin creation tools since they can’t appear anywhere in the game except on your own screen. The SP career only uses generic skins, user skins are locked in mp, 

who cares about the tail symbol when the whole thing is about the worst feature in the sim. 

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On 6/8/2019 at 11:04 AM, BraveSirRobin said:

The only problem is that the community voted for this.  It wasn’t a dev decision.  You’re going to have to convince them to take another poll.  Good luck with that.

 

It's been quite some time, the community has changed since EA, and we all have more experience with the game and how it looks overall. Maybe it is time to conduct another poll.

 

And it's another time where I kinda agree with Sharpe. We need a universal user made skin file. Updated quarterly, or so, with well made user skins and some sort of approval process. Maybe a vetting process through a Dev approved group/moderators to keep the workload off the offical Dev team's plate. Pic the best 20-25 and pass them along to Dev's for final approval and upload to an offical file for inclusion. I don't want everyone to have a vote or rely on polls - more like a representative democracy :)

 

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A flight sim electoral college to dissuade the tyranny of the majority 😆

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It is the same half symbol that the Germans put on restored WW2 planes. I see no problem in it other than we cannot enable the historically accurate symbol without modding. 

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Posted (edited)
On 6/7/2019 at 6:22 PM, Red_Cat said:

It's in the same league as f**k.

 

The Folk League? Sounds fascist.

Edited by J2_Bidu
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Posted (edited)
On 6/9/2019 at 9:18 PM, Geronimo553 said:

It is the same half symbol that the Germans put on restored WW2 planes. I see no problem in it other than we cannot enable the historically accurate symbol without modding. 

 

We are not playing a civilian flight simulator, flying a 'restored' plane in a politically correct country for gods sake... I agree with the OP, get rid of the useless thing, leave it blank.

And just to add... the restored German planes in my country are on display with the correct and historical markings for 'all' to see... who would have thought it, eh?

Edited by Trooper117

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10 minutes ago, Trooper117 said:

 

We are not playing a civilian flight simulator, flying a 'restored' plane in a politically correct country for gods sake... I agree with the OP, get rid of the useless thing, leave it blank.

And just to add... the restored German planes in my country are on display with the correct and historical markings for 'all' to see... who would have thought it, eh?

 

I'm not disagreeing, however the devs used what others have used in real life. So the stand in is not exactly made up. Personally I think they should release a texture pack of every plane with correct symbols separately. There for they appease everyone who contends with laws hiding history and they can appease those of us that want accurate history represented.

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Posted (edited)

Personally, I´d be happy as long there is any marking, including the current one.

A empty tail is just boring.

 

Put the Wolfenstein logo in it if you have to! ;)

Edited by [N.O.G.F]Leon_Portier

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No strong opinion either way. Close up, the stand-in is clearly wrong, if you are expecting absolute authenticity, but from a distance (where you are likely to be most of the time) the stand-in probably looks more authentic than nothing at all. Your eyes/brain tend to fill in the blanks to see what you expect to see.

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Being completely honest I don't mind not having it. But DCS world's approach may appease others, instead of a different Insignia by removing the middle completely they blue it out with paint looking like wear 

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Posted (edited)

Two thumbs up from me on just abolishing the artifacts left from what we all know it is anyways. Jason stated in his post he hates it just as much as we do so I guess this was their compromise, but I’d rather see nothing on the tail rather than four circular hash marks.

On 6/11/2019 at 9:04 AM, Geronimo553 said:

 

I'm not disagreeing, however the devs used what others have used in real life. So the stand in is not exactly made up. Personally I think they should release a texture pack of every plane with correct symbols separately. There for they appease everyone who contends with laws hiding history and they can appease those of us that want accurate history represented.

 

Now this would be great and still conform to the laws at hand on which the devs are tied to!

Edited by BornToBattle
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All people flying in JG53 "Messer". 😀

 



 

Messerschmitt-Bf-109E3-6.JG53-(Y14+-)-sw

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On 6/6/2019 at 9:03 PM, CUJO_1970 said:

Please get rid of the awful swastika stand in. Replace it with....nothing.

 

It looks awful, it is distracting and ruins the hard work put in to making a good skin. Please just leave the tail blank as it is a much more eloquent solution.

 

Different People, different tastes. I like it better than having no symbol at all and it fullfills legal requirements. Anyways, vou could load up a modded skin with historical markings, if it is that important.

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Posted (edited)

How about this? :P

image.png.4b3fccfb41cadd4410181822a412508c.png

 

image.thumb.jpeg.cc15a984942f8e57a89baa1469b9d8ef.jpeg

 

Anyway i prefer what is now, at least it's easier to spot something (not everyone is some kind of god to recognize plane so easly) if i see a black tail marking, i know it's axis plane. If it would be blank, it would be harder to recognize them. Best solution would be if devs could finally add steam workshop or some in game mod page/tab where you could browse bunch of mods, click download and it would download and instal itself and update when modder add something new. So you don't have to waste your time and search and updates everything, everytime there is game update that breaks scripted campaigns or new skins and planes are added.

Edited by InProgress

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Given that there was a symbol there in reality, having half a symbol seems more accurate than having no symbol, at least to me.

 

As long as certain countries only allow swastikas to be shown in works of art, and as long as these same countries don’t consider video games to be works of art (which they should, given that even awful films like Jack and Jill are considered art), this is as good as it gets.

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It's all a bit silly and pathetic, but it helps drive all the PC crap we have nowadays.

If National symbols should be banned for past attrocities, then they should ALL be gone.

Not a poke at the Devs, they have to obey the laws we're given.

 

People have been conned by all this extreme right wing 'fascist' nonsense.

Nazi's were Socialists, it's in their name.

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

People have been conned by all this extreme right wing 'fascist' nonsense.

Nazi's were Socialists, it's in their name.

 

You’re forgetting that the Strasserists were purged in the Night of the Long Knives, and that Hitler lied a lot.

 

Besides, if the Nazis were socialists and not fascists, then why did they support the fascists in the Spanish Civil War against the communists? And why were they so determined to destroy the USSR, rather than the fascist states of Europe? States that they allied with? Their behaviour makes no sense if they were socialists, but is perfectly in line with the behaviour of a fascist country.

Edited by [Pb]Cybermat47

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10 minutes ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

Nazi's were Socialists, it's in their name.

 

Off topic, but did you know that there is democracy in North Korea? It is in their name.

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1 hour ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

It's all a bit silly and pathetic, but it helps drive all the PC crap we have nowadays.

If National symbols should be banned for past attrocities, then they should ALL be gone.

Not a poke at the Devs, they have to obey the laws we're given.

 

People have been conned by all this extreme right wing 'fascist' nonsense.

Nazi's were Socialists, it's in their name.

 

Not this nonsense again. Nationalsozialismus as a political doctrine had its roots in a German ideology that had long lost any connection with mainstream socialism, and instead saw itself rooted in a Völkisch nationalism that rejected class as a defining political concept, and instead emphasised a national identity (and subservience to the nation state and its leader) based around an imagined 'race' as its defining core. The Nazis were consolidated in power by conservative forces amongst the German elite (e.g. Paul von Hindenburg), who saw them as a buffer against a (largely imagined) threat from the German left. They employed leftist rhetoric on occasion, certainly. Some of their old guard may even have believed in it. Hitler soon dealt with that. Precisely nothing in their ideology was compatible with class-based politics, or the notions of international solidarity that socialism espoused. Using an etymological fallacy to define the position of the Nazis on the political spectrum makes no more sense than claiming that the Irish Republican Army shared its ideology with the GOP. It is nonsensical. It flies against all the evidence (evidence which shows that the first victims of Nazi ideology were its political opponents - the socialists and communists). The external supporters of the Nazi party were from the right. No serious historian of Nazism identifies them as 'socialists'. Modern supporters of the same warped ideology do not identify themselves as 'socialists' - they identify socialists (along with anyone else who doesn't fit their warped conspiracy-minded worldview) as the enemy. They were, and still are, on the far right of the political spectrum as authoritarian nationalists, and to argue otherwise shows a profound ignorance of history. 

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2 minutes ago, AndyJWest said:

They were, and still are, on the far right of the political spectrum as authoritarian nationalists, and to argue otherwise shows a profound ignorance of history. 

 

A profound ignorance of history motivated by a modern political agenda... something that I’m fairly sure isn’t allowed on this forum anyway.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, AndyJWest said:

international solidarity that socialism espoused.

It's a complex issue but the clue is in in the name "National socialism" as to why some historians have opined the view rightly (or wrongly) that they were "socialists" on a national level with the solidarity of the volk and state replacing the international solidarity of the workers. The differences between far right or far left ideology can be paper thin at times.

 

Edit: On that note, I'm dropping out because we are way off topic. I think the faux symbol should be removed and the tail left blank

Edited by 6./ZG26_Custard
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Hi all,

 

Political discussions are forbidden, been past or modern politics..

 

7. Comments containing profanity, personal insults, accusations of cheating, excessive rudeness, vulgarity, drug propaganda, political and religious discussion and propaganda, all manifestations of Nazism and racist statements, calls to overthrow governments by force, inciting ethnic hatred, humiliation of persons of a particular gender, sexual orientation or religion are not allowed and will result in a ban.

 

When and if the laws change in several countries then you can call for a change, until then its not happening unless you simply want a change on what we already have.

 

Haash

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With the stand in not being historical and all,  I've honestly had a change of heart and think it would be best left "Blank" .

"Blank", for me anyway, seems more neutral....  and I couldn't see it upsetting  the part of the community where it does matter as well.

:salute:

 

 

 

 

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On 6/17/2019 at 6:35 AM, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

 I think the faux symbol should be removed and the tail left blank

 

Agreed 100%.

On 6/17/2019 at 7:20 AM, Boomerang said:

With the stand in not being historical and all,  I've honestly had a change of heart and think it would be best left "Blank" .

"Blank", for me anyway, seems more neutral....  and I couldn't see it upsetting  the part of the community where it does matter as well.

:salute:

 

 

Yes, blank is a much more eloquent solution.

 

Looks so much better in screenshots too - no comparison here really. The swastika stand-in is a serious blemish that distracts from the fine 3D models and excellent artwork the talented skin artists provide for us.

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Posted (edited)

I personally prefer the current solution much to an empty tail on one hand and historical correct symbols on the other side. 

 

An empty tail looks boring and incomplete. 

 

A swastika on the other hand is a symbol I don't need to see constantly in the scarce free time I can spend for enjoyment...

Edited by Eisenfaustus
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