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Geronimo553

Real life vs ingame sounds

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So you decide, are the current in game sounds accurate enough compared to the real life sounds of the same aircraft in the video? Or should the in game sounds of aircraft be improved to be more realistic?
 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv3Dg5NZMxI






Also I would show the video in the forums however I only get this message. So be sure to click the link to the video.
W7iuRws.png

 




Lots more aircraft can be seen here in the video selection. 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCv_xZf2Sk6mJaAdUaqdB4eg/videos

 

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Geronimo553 said:


So you decide, are the current in game sounds accurate enough compared to the real life sounds of the same aircraft in the video? Or should the in game sounds of aircraft be improved to be more realistic?
 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv3Dg5NZMxI






Also I would show the video in the forums however I only get this message. So be sure to click the link to the video.
W7iuRws.png

 




Lots more aircraft can be seen here in the video selection. 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCv_xZf2Sk6mJaAdUaqdB4eg/videos

 

 

 

The quality of that video is sensational. I agree entirely, the in-game sounds really need to be improved and this would add tremendous immersion. 

 

To be honest, in comparison to the other machines in the game, I think the BF109 machines at least sound a little representative of the real DB inverted V motors. However, it's the M-105PF machines (Lagg-3, Pe2, Yak) sounds that really are abysmal. The sounds for this motor absolutely need to be improved or just outright changed. I don't understand why the team did the Klimov M-105 sounds so poorly in comparison to the other machines. 

 

This is what the LaGG-3, Yak 1 and PE2 motors should sound at least something like, at least on the ground anyway...

 

 

Gun sounds are of course ridiculously loud, but that has been a long known inaccuracy for quite some time now, and perhaps a separate issue.

 

Regards

Edited by Bilbo_Baggins
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I always wondered about the guns being drawn out by engine sound part... I read it somewhere that for example in the p51 at high angle of attack you could/can hear the guns "whistle" but how does one hear that if the much more violent sound of the 6 .50s going off at the same time cannot be heard? Just curious, and have to agree the russian planes sound a bit too tame for my liking and compared to videos.

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While currently it is not bad I also would like them to be improved from simple reason the closer to reality the better.

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Posted (edited)

All V12 machines in this game should sound at least somewhat similar. I would bet modern Yak machines with Alison V12 engines would sound at least somewhat similar in character to the original Klimov 105 motors in the LaGG-3, Pe2, etc. However, the bumblebee that we have for red V12 engines right now is inexcusable and needs to be changed.

 

Of course, radials are completely different and they have been done much better!

 

Check out this I-16 radial sound:

 

https://youtu.be/Wre6DUAbMIg?t=361

 

 

What a beast.

 

 

 

Edited by Bilbo_Baggins
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Posted (edited)

I think the newer Bodenplatte planes and a handfull of Kuban planes have excellent sounds. Fw190 D9, P47 and A20 come to mind as excellent examples. Many of the older planes could use a touchup and added layers of turbine whine and such. I think the positional audio of the P39 is a really nice touch and I see the same work on the P47.

 

Spitfires need that low throttle popping sound byte added. The 109's need deeper audio pitch in low throttle and radial 190's could use the same treatment. Yak's could benefit from a complete rework as they sound much too tame in general. Many planes could use some supercharger whine. The sound of the props sounding like a powerful fan blowing air on the ground is absent on many planes.

Edited by Field-Ops
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May be  devs would implement some know-how from CLOD's sounds. Theay are awesome IMHO (contrary to some othre outdated features of that game).

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Sound engine could use a massive overhaul indeed. There is not much positioning, which is most annoying, considering modern harware can take care of that very easily.

 

most engine sounds are not very immersive. DBs and Merlins are okay, Klimovs are just very generic, but the Jumo in the Dora is probably worst, it sounds like a broken sawing machine.

 

Gun sounds are mixed issue as well. Some are good, some are just generic ratata a samples.

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Posted (edited)

That issue , i think is more financial related that anything else.
It will cost less to start from a sound close to the original and rework it than recording the real stuff.
Not that others didn't record the real thing(s) :
 



Now imagine the budget to hire the recording crew, accomodations for several days, making an appointment with the museum, pay the museum for the fuel, their time, etc...
So, if anyone here has connections with "flying collections" i'd be glad to know how much would it cost for a static recording (and a flying one if available) for just one plane.
Pure curiosity... :biggrin:

Otherwise, the company that made the sound for WT also sells some of their recordings, so maybe, if someone start a kickstarter for it, it could work :lol:
https://pole.se/product-category/vehicles/aircraft/

Edited by JV69badatflyski
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Not sure what the problem is with the sounds in game... sometimes they sound quite passable with a reasonable resemblance, other times they sound not much better than a light aircraft (mainly in the fly by sounds).

Still, much better than the stock IL2 46 sounds, but then again, there are some great engine sounds by the modders...

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You have to be careful directly comparing recorded audio of such engines. Recorded audio normalizes the volume over the dynamic range available, meaning that all aircraft will have their engine sounds to similar volume. This is not the case when you hear them in real life. The German engines and most notably the DB series are MUCH louder than the RollsRoyce engines. If you tuned them down  to similar volumes as a RollsRoyce, you indeed get a something that sounds like a weird lawn mower.

 

In flight, unless you really push the throttle past +6 lbs., prop wash is louder than the Merlin engine itself. The low rumble and vibrations in the cockpit are just that, the prop and the propwash. The engine sounds different. None of those engines have a sound like you'd expect from a big block V8 powered muscle car (that comes from the happy muffler, same as in Harley bikes), they sound a bit lighter and metallic (we have no muffler on those engines), that to various degrees. The DB sounds a lot more like that, less so the Merlin that runs extaordinarily smooth. Not in terms of  vibration (a good rebuild of a DB runs perfectly fine), but also in terms of sound. It is of note that the Merlin also runs smooth at 1800 or 2000 rpm, where in game it tends to make sputtering noises. 1800 rpm are in fact still permissible rpm for lean cruise, something the engine really does like and reward you with long service life.

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This is where CloD has got the sounds just right... 

 

 

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I trust the sound engeneer in the team.

He is doing excellent job with recources he has.

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15 minutes ago, Voidhunger said:

I trust the sound engeneer in the team.

He is doing excellent job with recources he has.

Funny they say one of the biggest things they'd like to do is redo the sound in game. Courtesy of russian forum.

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7 minutes ago, JgonRedcorn said:

Funny they say one of the biggest things they'd like to do is redo the sound in game. Courtesy of russian forum.

I wasnt saying the the sound is excellent. Team is doing great job with what they have. They improved fx, skins, damage decals, improving AI and if they have time and resources they will improve sound. I would rather have improved cpu usage than sound

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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, Trooper117 said:

This is where CloD has got the sounds just right... 

 

 

 

Got to be honest- in regards to sound, those V12 sounds in Clod blow this sim away. The Lagg/Yak/Pe2 Klimov 105 engine sounds in this game are pathetic in comparison. 

 

Strange thing is, the Mikulin motors on the Mig-3 and Il2 machines sound fantastic. I just really hope they correct these sounds on the Klimov 105 machines.

 

Regards

Edited by Bilbo_Baggins

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, VO101Kurfurst said:

most engine sounds are not very immersive. DBs and Merlins are okay, Klimovs are just very generic, but the Jumo in the Dora is probably worst, it sounds like a broken sawing machine.

 

I have recently noticed that all the 190 engines have a low tone/sound using the same wheel screeching sound for braking. So when the engine is running there is a subtle and constant wheel braking screech. This is most noticeable on combat power. Now that I have noticed it I cannot unhear it and yes it has become quite annoying. 
 

Edited by Geronimo553

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Posted (edited)

Tiger 33 sound mod 

 

 

 

Edited by bubo942
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2 hours ago, bubo942 said:

Tiger 33 sound mod 

 

 

 

is unfortunately dead...

 

Wish we had a 2nd talented sound guy around here

 

 

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I often wonder, though, if those relics do sound today as they sounded 70 years ago. Couldn't decades of maintenance affect how they sound? 

 

For that matter: do those planes, the bf109 on the OP for instance, still generate the same HP they did all that time ago? 

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12 minutes ago, danielprates said:

I often wonder, though, if those relics do sound today as they sounded 70 years ago. Couldn't decades of maintenance affect how they sound? 

They sound the same. They just run smoother due to a far, far better fuel quality.

 

14 minutes ago, danielprates said:

For that matter: do those planes, the bf109 on the OP for instance, still generate the same HP they did all that time ago? 

Normally, horses escape over time. This is what happens if you exceed TBO without proper servicing. It commonly happens in vintage cars. You’d be happy to squeeze more than 250 horses from a Ferrari Testarossa. Over 30 years, discount half the power. If it is a new car, discount at least 10% of the advertised output. And don‘t put it on a ramp to meter the power, you‘ll regret that.

 

On aircraft, this can‘t be allowed to happen, else your aircraft at some point will not be able to take off anymore. Hence, they are built with a far higher power margin and planned overhauls/rebuilds. You can rebuild any engine. Most engines are even easy to have increased output after that. It is the rebuilds that make it an expensive hobby. Asking price is only of relevance if you intend using it for display only.

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I was looking at the sound samples in the game and they are surprisingly good.

 

It seems like what is making the sounds so dull is the FMOD and how they are blending them.

 

Regarding Tiger's mods, they are fantastic but if he is not going to share them i couldnt care less. Making those videos is almost like rubbing it on our faces.

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Posted (edited)

Some engines sound quite good in the game, like DBs, others are terrible, like Klimovs M-105s. Those should be among the first ones to be updated. As for the gun sounds, they're lacking a punch, imho. Here's DSHK for example:


It uses the same ammo as UBs and BS, but compare how those sound in the game - it's like a bunch of bolts and nuts rattling inside a tin can. Some guns are better than the others, but overall, they all need improvement, away from being too cartoonish.
Now for everyone that would say that in cockpit it should be quiet and different, how about when an aircraft is stationary on the ground with engine off with external view close up?

Edited by Arthur-A
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1 hour ago, ZachariasX said:

They sound the same. They just run smoother due to a far, far better fuel quality.

 

Normally, horses escape over time. This is what happens if you exceed TBO without proper servicing. It commonly happens in vintage cars. You’d be happy to squeeze more than 250 horses from a Ferrari Testarossa. Over 30 years, discount half the power. If it is a new car, discount at least 10% of the advertised output. And don‘t put it on a ramp to meter the power, you‘ll regret that.

 

On aircraft, this can‘t be allowed to happen, else your aircraft at some point will not be able to take off anymore. Hence, they are built with a far higher power margin and planned overhauls/rebuilds. You can rebuild any engine. Most engines are even easy to have increased output after that. It is the rebuilds that make it an expensive hobby. Asking price is only of relevance if you intend using it for display only.

 

Yes I know that. That's my point, if I was not clear about that. If the engine is older it will have much less HP, hence it might not sound the same. And if it was overhauled, possibly it does not sound the same too - unless it was serviced with parts identical to the original. 

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1 hour ago, Arthur-A said:

As for the gun sounds, they're lacking a punch, imho. Here's DSHK for example:

 

20mm cannons sound much better if they fire alone without machine guns (for example if you choose an option to remove all machine guns from 190 A-8 or press secondary fire button in any BF 109).

If you fire MGs and 20mms simultaneously, the sound they produce is muffled for some reason.

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5 hours ago, danielprates said:

unless it was serviced with parts identical to the original. 

This. Yes.

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22 hours ago, Voidhunger said:

I trust the sound engeneer in the team.

He is doing excellent job with recources he has.

 

Maybe its time to give this man more resources. 

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I know it's not exactly true to life, but the Battlefield series of games has some excellent sound production. Really memorable stuff too and in my opinion, sound really pushes you into the world more so than fancy graphics. 

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I've been playing around with TC content whenever I've been playing online, and I find that they did a very good job on sounds on the ground.

Occasionally I'll shut off my engine to listen for en enemy, and I'll hear wind rustling leaves in a tree, birds tweeting, dogs barking if you're near a town. The gun sounds are splendid, and they have the speed of sound modeled so the further away you are from a target, the later you'll hear the explosion. 

 

Sounds for the tank engines are throaty, you can hear the RPM changing, and can tell when gears change. Tank treads have a clinking and squeaking noise when moving. 

One thing that is missing is bullet ricochet noises, but I can look past it for now, it's still WIP. 

 

Although, one thing that very much is lacking is the noise of airplanes. I've had a P-47 and Fw-190 D-9 dog fighting on the deck half a Km away from me, and I couldn't hear the engines.

I stopped and shut my engine off to listen to it too. Gun sounds are O.K. though; I can hear them over all the tank operating noise.

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35 minutes ago, AtomicP said:

I know it's not exactly true to life, but the Battlefield series of games has some excellent sound production. Really memorable stuff too and in my opinion, sound really pushes you into the world more so than fancy graphics. 

 

100% agree on the Sound aspect.

 

BTW Post Scriptum also has excellent sounds and its but a small team developing something that started out as a WW2 mod.

 

There is little valid excuse for poor sound design but unfortunately for 95% of the developers it is waaay too low priority. Even if the hardware is there. It was there even in the late 90s. We are progressing backwards in this respect.

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Some of the challenge, at least with doing the .50's, is because the Browning M2 .50 cal's when installed in aircraft had a much higher rate of fire than a normal M2 mounted on say...a tripod. Sounds recorded from that wouldn't be accurate, however..

There does happen to be at least one re-armed P-51 out there...
 

 

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in il-2 46 the 109 startup sounds very similar than in the video, odd they didn't use similar sound samples

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, VO101Kurfurst said:

 

100% agree on the Sound aspect.

 

BTW Post Scriptum also has excellent sounds and its but a small team developing something that started out as a WW2 mod.

 

There is little valid excuse for poor sound design but unfortunately for 95% of the developers it is waaay too low priority. Even if the hardware is there. It was there even in the late 90s. We are progressing backwards in this respect.

There is more to sound design in flight sims than simply playing wav files. Its called sound engineering for a reason.

 

Post Scriptum uses static samples for flybys from recordings which works great in a FPS but is useless in a flight sim.

 

All samples ingame are dynamic and physicly adjusted by FMod depending on many conditions. Engine sound for example changes depending on RPM, airspeed, load, damage and supercharger/turbocharger speed smoothly.

All those sound components have to be sourced or synthecised individually and programmed accordingly. Its a tremendous job and very difficult to get done properly especially without access to high quality recordings.

 

I've created sound mods for another sim using recorded audio and know how difficult it is even when using proper source audio.

 

So far I know no other sim that has excelled IL-2s sound design but also hope they can improve on it even further in future (BoBP aircraft are promising so far).

 

 

Edited by 6./ZG26_5tuka
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On 6/4/2019 at 1:28 AM, ZachariasX said:

This. Yes.

 

This may be splitting hairs from my part, but I doubt that modern-made parts intended for overhauls are all that identical to the original parts. They certainly must be as far as specs and dimensions go, pistons and connecting rods for instance, but the materials used and other factors just can't be really identical. Think also of plain bearings, ball bearings... lubricants - things that only require the same friction properties but could be made of different metals. Those may be similar, maybe very similar, but not identical. From all I've been reading in this thread I am beginning to think that there is no way modern overhauled engines sound exactly the same as  their original counterparts. This makes the job of the game's sound engineer a bit mystical, so afaik, he is doing an excellent job and it's maybe unfair to complain about it. The sounds we get in the game are, for sure, not BAD. They are at least good or very good even. Entering the realm of 'perfect'... that may be too much to expect.

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3 minutes ago, danielprates said:

From all I've been reading in this thread I am beginning to think that there is no way modern overhauled engines sound exactly the same as  their original counterparts.

The only thing you would notice is that engines run smoother due to smaller tolerances made possible in rebuilds as well as far better lubrication and fuel. And this is something you‘d only notice at idle rpm, else the engine is way too loud to convey these audio subtleties. The way to make it sound different is to change valve timings and compression. But as you will not do that in that kind of restorations (you might might want to do that in your 10 hp Amilcar and make it have 30 hp any consequently you might consider trying it on a real road just once), they will sound identical to your ears at even slightly elevated power settings. Essentially, today you can make it sound as it should have sounded if it wasn‘t for poor parts, lubrication and fuel quality back then.

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11 minutes ago, danielprates said:

 

This makes the job of the game's sound engineer a bit mystical, so afaik, he is doing an excellent job and it's maybe unfair to complain about it. The sounds we get in the game are, for sure, not BAD. They are at least good or very good even. Entering the realm of 'perfect'... that may be too much to expect.

 

As you said, in overall terms the sounds are fairly good, but the problem seems to mainly be a few obvious outliers- mainly the Klimov 105 machines (LaGG-3, Pe2, Yak), the volume of the gun sounds over the motor, and some of the external view/other planes around you sounds. 

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Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, Bilbo_Baggins said:

 

As you said, in overall terms the sounds are fairly good, but the problem seems to mainly be a few obvious outliers- mainly the Klimov 105 machines (LaGG-3, Pe2, Yak), the volume of the gun sounds over the motor, and some of the external view/other planes around you sounds. 

Gun sounds used to be quiter which lead many people to complain. Devs made gun sounds louder and started a poll which offered both options and the louder gun sounds were clearly favoured. In the end sounds were changed to what we have now with update 2.003.

 

As you can read in the old thread, there's different views on what sounds 'great' and what's 'overdone'.

Edited by 6./ZG26_5tuka
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1 hour ago, ZachariasX said:

And this is something you‘d only notice at idle rpm, else the engine is way too loud to convey these audio subtleties

 

Yes I do imagine that, at the infernal levels of noise produced at high RPM, distinguishing minor differences would become impossible. Specially standing outside, right near to it. Hmmm.... it just occurred to me that maybe the thing to set as a goal would be to focus more on how they sound from inside the cockpit - what a pilot would hear, not what a mechanic would. But that would require references we simply dont have, me thinks....

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Posted (edited)

My biggest dislikes of the sound settings is the quieter under tones/sounds. For example, the 109 will have a beep like sound every few seconds at emergency power settings and the 190 has a constant wheel braking screech in the engine... These are both very quiet background sounds of the engine's sound bite, but still noticeable. Little things like those are what takes away from the sound quality enjoyment for me. 

Edited by Geronimo553

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