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They're just practising for when stats go live...

 

How can anyone say that "stats bring out the worst in people" after watching all the vulching and shoulder shooting this past weekend?

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Bos replay files wont outlast the game version I presume ;)

 

True enough, I guess you would have to get all your filming sorted within one test session otherwise your precious kills disappear into the ether.

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They have no idea whether the stats will reward vulching, so that's definitely not it.

I guess we'll just put it down to playground bully with a bit of internet anomyity thrown in for good measure and leave it at that.

Regarding the vulchers, I'm liking the idea of more intense flak around a friendly base. Gives the vulchers a hard time as well as adding to the immersion, just as long as it doesn't reduce the airfield to a slideshow.

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Unless you are a fighter pilot who is specifically assigned to escort bombers, your job is to go kill hunting.

 

Nope.

 

Your job is objective based and to keep your buddies alive. Going on wild kill hunts got people demoted. 

 

Even the luftwaffe forbid its pilots to attack certain types of targets. You're not paid to have fun collecting medals. ;)

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No, your job is to kill things.  Whether or not certain types of targets were off limits does not change the fact that your job is to go kill things.  Obviously self preservation is part of the equation, but that also does not change the fact that your job is to kill things.


That is why kill streak is the best stat for fighter pilots not escorting bombers.  A good kill streak means that you are killing things without being killed.  That pretty much sums up the job of a fighter pilot.

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Please, please. This is a game where everybody who bought it should have fun. If someone has fun in going for kills only we should accept that his understanding of fun differs from ours. As long as everybody stays fair and respects the rules we should simply allow people to play they seem fit for them and not impose our definition of fun upon others. I mean we're not discussing about some ethical questions here. My 2 cents ...

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I got about 10-15 lagg ( i need to count them from the footage i took) and an il2 when i flew profesionaly.

When i dicked around turning and burning at 2 meters altitude from the enemy airfield i got blown apart by laggs :lol: .

 

I also flew a mission in a lagg managed to barely get a 109( a realy cracpy kill) and escaped from another.Clearly much harder to play the lagg.

Edited by IVJG4-Knight
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Surround the airfields with realistic flak and you won't see a lot of asshattery there.

 

True!

 

However when a sturmovik gets to the airfield and begins some straffing runs, I consider this legit. It's hard to fly a ground attacker in a world of fighters.

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You need to have 2 different types of airfields.

 

Forward ones that are lightly defended, and rear ones that are heavily defended. This both allows the choice of going for the field vulnerable to strafing/bombs but closer to the front, and the safe one that allows you to get altitude. Also makes it a secondary objective to keep your forward fields protected for both sides.

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It was a test mission.  It was set up in such a way it almost guaranteed vulching.  Two forward bases very close together means low altitude fighting.  People die, respawn, take off.  If enemies are over your base, you are likely getting attacked.  There was no overarching mission to accomplish, so it was a simple fly and try to kill things.  There was the option to airstart further back, guaranteeing you at least could have a chance to get airborne with some altitude (and implying that this could be a problem at the forward base).  It was just for testing purposes.

 

When the broader community can create MP missions, there will be some who will set up more realistic situations that award meeting mission objectives.  The nice thing is the sim is open ended as to what kind of fun you can have.  For those that want mission-driven experiences, it can be provided.  For those who want to yank and bank over airfields, that can be provided too.  

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Good grief, I got the stuffing kicked out of me, yesterday. I had a few really cohesive 109 bnzers beating me like a drum. I lost count of how many times I bailed out of a wrecked LaGG, but I was a mess. It was the flight sim equivalent of a palm to the bridge of the nose, followed by an ear slap, and a thousand hammer fists and elbows to every part of the body. :wacko:  I can't fake the funk on a nasty dunk. As Joe Piscopo said, "Drama...bahama...lost."  I shot three planes down yesterday and I was shot down about a trillion times, give or take. :lol: I had a lot of fun, though. Losing goes with the learning. Not much I can do about it, other than strive to improve in my LaGG and wait for a plane with closer performance parity.

  :salute:  MJ

 

P.S. I hope the Yak really closes the performance gap some. When those Bf 109s work together, stay fast, and in the vertical, they are murder in motion!   :o:

Edited by =69.GIAP=MIKHA
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MIkha : "in the vertical, they are murder in motion" you are spot on with this one :biggrin: .

I don't want to sound like an idiot but i will not even play anymore untill the yak 1 makes it's multiplayer debut. It's just ridiculous how easy it is to kill laggs.

All i can do is admire the skill op people that get kills in those laggs 3 aircraft.

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MIkha : "in the vertical, they are murder in motion" you are spot on with this one :biggrin: .

I don't want to sound like an idiot but i will not even play anymore untill the yak 1 makes it's multiplayer debut. It's just ridiculous how easy it is to kill laggs.

All i can do is admire the skill op people that get kills in those laggs 3 aircraft.

Thank goodness we are getting our fighter workhorse, soon. The Yak-1 will not close all the performance gaps, but she will bring us as close to parity as the VVS is probably going to get, for some time. I have to learn to sim fly the heck out of the Yak and work closely with my squad mates. Even then, things are going to be very rough some days in multiplayer. It is good fun, though. I look back on my early ROF days, back in 2009, simming with a Mercedes powered DVII against SE5a and SPAD machines and that time was just like my LaGG experiences now. I will look back on these airquake LaGG days fondly one day, while I am sim flying with a Yak 3.  :happy:

 

  :salute: MJ

Edited by =69.GIAP=MIKHA
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That is what I think MJ :) Gonna butcher as many russian as I can now because later on I will be stuck on a G6 against Mustangs, Tempests, La7 and I am sure no one will care about my inferior 109 before shooting me :P

Edited by JG62Gielow
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MIkha : "in the vertical, they are murder in motion" you are spot on with this one :biggrin: .

I don't want to sound like an idiot but i will not even play anymore untill the yak 1 makes it's multiplayer debut. It's just ridiculous how easy it is to kill laggs.

All i can do is admire the skill op people that get kills in those laggs 3 aircraft.

If the 109 is too easy, fly the LaGG.

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The Lagg is fun, just make sure you have eyes in the back of your head.

 

I found the 109's were always coming in very fast so a quick scissors and they would shoot past you and if you are lucky you may get a quick shot on if not look for a cloud and hope you come out in an advantageous position, I got a few 109's while they were focusing on shooting dowm other laggs and a couple of longish range wing removals as well, but it is pretty deadly out there for the Lagg pilot as is to be expected.

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Is there a working player roster and stats page? I couldn't find anything.

 

I flew three sorties in Il-2 single seater. The first two the server crashed and in the third one I managed to get above the enemy base and got in a scrap with few 109's at 2000m. I saw the wing fly off one of them after a deflection shot, but I don't know if I hit him or something else, as there was no message. All I saw was that he went in without a wing. There were no other friendly planes nearby.

 

Then his buddies messed up my Il-2 and I had to ditch it. :)

 

Were you flying as JAWS? I saw an IL-2, using the vertical at 2K working over a 109 and I was cracking up, and telling my fellow TX'ers - I instantly had a fair bit of respect for him, but that didn't stop me from shooting at him!  

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You need to have 2 different types of airfields.

 

Forward ones that are lightly defended, and rear ones that are heavily defended. This both allows the choice of going for the field vulnerable to strafing/bombs but closer to the front, and the safe one that allows you to get altitude. Also makes it a secondary objective to keep your forward fields protected for both sides.

Isn't that the opposite of what one would expect in real life? I find the MP tinted version of reality so very tiresome I can hardly stay on the treadmill for very long. Every plodding mission maker just seems to arrange the bases in an X shape with ground targets in the centre to funnel the bombers in to be killed.

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Stats are rather meaningless when there is a mix of players, some of whom play to a DiD standard and others who are air-quake in their outlook. DiD players have a virtual life they care about, a persona, while the air-quakers could care less. Straight away, in pure dogfight terms, the quakers have the upper hand. They'll yank and bank without a care for losing control and spinning in, while the DiD pilot will be conservative in his inputs, especially at low altitude.

 

Which is why JG3 has the 'lucky 13' rule, to take account of this un-balancing parameter. If a DiD pilot is shot down and killed only a roll of 13 on the 20-sided die will result in actual persona death. That doesn't show up on any MP stats-page but it sure makes the experience more realistic at a personal level.

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777 handles stats very poorly in RoF. Photo reconnaissance and artillery spotting is an empty affair. You could dedicate yourself to taking a recon aircraft up, completing every objective, winning the missions and rolling the map every time. All you'd get for your hard work is a record of how many hours flown. No points, no credit. No point at all really. Ignore all objectives and air quake at 500ft though, and you're the toast of the leaderboards.

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Which is why JG3 has the 'lucky 13' rule, to take account of this un-balancing parameter. If a DiD pilot is shot down and killed only a roll of 13 on the 20-sided die will result in actual persona death. That doesn't show up on any MP stats-page but it sure makes the experience more realistic at a personal level.

 

I wouldn't call a one-in-twenty chance "dead is dead" anymore.

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Stats are rather meaningless when there is a mix of players, some of whom play to a DiD standard and others who are air-quake in their outlook. DiD players have a virtual life they care about, a persona, while the air-quakers could care less. Straight away, in pure dogfight terms, the quakers have the upper hand. They'll yank and bank without a care for losing control and spinning in, while the DiD pilot will be conservative in his inputs, especially at low altitude.

 

Which is why JG3 has the 'lucky 13' rule, to take account of this un-balancing parameter. If a DiD pilot is shot down and killed only a roll of 13 on the 20-sided die will result in actual persona death. That doesn't show up on any MP stats-page but it sure makes the experience more realistic at a personal level.

 

Very true... this kind of stat oriented flying is going to be all too common though. For me even the use of a "kill board" is kind of a detractor because things will always deteriorate to the furball in that case.

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I wouldn't call a one-in-twenty chance "dead is dead" anymore.

 

The entire point of DiD is to give the player a 'realstic' experience. Unfortunately the experience isn't very real when the vast majority of opponents met online are both aces and flying highly unrealistically (doing things a real person wouldn't do). The net result is that one is shot down far more frequently than happened in real life.

 

The 'lucky 13' rule addresses that issue.

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Maybe points and rewards should be awarded based on successful mission objective and not pure air/ground kills. 

 

 

Yeah I agree.. I remember in CFS 1 they had a way to set the scoring for individual scores or team scores so that at the end of the mission in the team scoring mode all it showed were team totals.. It seemed that there was a lot more cooperation when running in team mode because folks were less centered on their individual score. Things like leader boards etc can be fun in their place but counter productive in the overall picture.

 

I think if points were also rewarded based on how may of the team made it back alive that wold help keep things more realistic.

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The entire point of DiD is to give the player a 'realstic' experience. Unfortunately the experience isn't very real when the vast majority of opponents met online are both aces and flying highly unrealistically (doing things a real person wouldn't do). The net result is that one is shot down far more frequently than happened in real life.

 

The 'lucky 13' rule addresses that issue.

 

I understand the reasoning but if I play "dead is dead" and then only accept  5% of actual deaths the whole idea of "realistic" behaviour gets a bit silly.

 

Example: if I'm in an almost perfect position to shoot and suddenly realize I got his wingman on my tail I'd never press the attack under "DiD" rule. With a 95% chance that I can continue my career even if I get shot down I'd take that chance for a kill every time.

 

That's the difference between "dead is dead" and "dead is kinda dead, if I get really, really unlucky".

 

;)

 

But if it works for you, all the better.

Edited by ParaB
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It's actually a point of pride not to be shot down, regardless of the chance of not being properly dead. And even with a one in twenty chance I'd rather not take it. Obviously I can't say the same for everyone but even if somebody does play the rule a bit gamey it's better than having every persona slaughtered before he's had a chance to get much further than an Iron Cross 2nd Class.

The fact is only 5% of the pilots who wore a commonwealth uniform in WW2 were aces, and they scored 60% of all the kills. Normally the AI represents the rookies but they don't exist on the ATAG server other than in bombers and they're rarely seen.

 

As far as I'm aware our unit is the only one that dictates a loss of all progress upon death so we're still well ahead of the bar. But it has to be playable, otherwise nobody would put up with it. Dying to somebody who flies his crate alone into a flak-storm and takes on multiple 109s in a Quake stylee, that's simply not going to be calculated at face value or tolerated by anyone who chooses to put more time and effort into his play by playing DiD.

 

If full-real BoS servers put up a decent number of AI I'll revisit the rule but on the CloD server at least it's an entirely realistic component. And absolutely necessary in order to re-balance the experience to something like it was in real life. :)

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Were you flying as JAWS? I saw an IL-2, using the vertical at 2K working over a 109 and I was cracking up, and telling my fellow TX'ers - I instantly had a fair bit of respect for him, but that didn't stop me from shooting at him!  

That was one hell of a ride. The 109 was I.

Nice flying to who ever that may have been. :salute:

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I despise K/D ratios and stats. They are one of the huge differences between flight games and flight simulators. They ruin online simming. They destroy team work. If anyone has had the misfortune to play warthunder they will know what I'm talking about. That game is full of online whining about "killstealing" "you stole my kill, I needed that for my stats chart"  It's pathetic and it is not needed. Stats or a points system based around the team, if stats are to be introduced,  is needed not the individual.

Edited by Johnny_Red
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