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chiliwili69

Specs summary: Rift-S, Index, Pimax5K and Reverb

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Posted (edited)

Many of us are just looking to upgrade our Rift/Vive/etc or just acquire our first VR device for IL-2.

I just wanted to compile the specs of each device in a table and highlight in green the good things of each device over the others. 

For sure there are more options in the market, but just wanted to put the top four contenders with LCD panels.

 

Untitled.png.fa6ac71bf64a3162295573ec05bbb325.png

 

If you are new to VR and you have a low-VR-budget or low-end PC spec (below GTX 1070), then go to the Rift-S for 399$, or perhaps the Index with 449$ + 149$ (basestation)

 

If you already have a Rift/Vive and mid-VR-budget, then go for the Index. You will really enjoy the extra FOV, the mechanical IPD adjust (also tilt adjust) and the best audio.

 

If money is not a problem for you, then buy the Index & Pimax5K and Reverb, test them and then keep just one. VR is very personal!

 

Note: I didn´t consider other factors (controllers, game catalogue, etc), just IL-2 VR.

Note-2: For Index and Pimax5K+ you will need just 1 basestation (v1.0 or v2.0) for seated experience.

 

The table in the "new devices" tab here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gJmnz_nVxI6_dG_UYNCCpZVK2-f8NBy-y1gia77Hu_k/

 

Edited by chiliwili69
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Posted (edited)

I heartily recommend the Rift S!

:P

 

Money was no problem, and used a Rift CV1 for 2.5 years. Loving my Rift S.

( plus you can get one today).

Edited by dburne
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Hahaha, It´s a human behaviour to self-justify and reassure the decisions we take in life. 

In a couple of months, when you will upgrade to Index or Reverb (or Pimax who knows) you will also heartily recommend your buy. In fact you said in other post you will consider Index and Reverb.

 

When I had my Rift, I bought the VivePro, and criticize the small bump in details and horrible sweet spot.

When I had my Rift, I was backer for Pimax5K and I also criticize the small bump in details due to pixels spread along a huge FOV.

 

I prefer to avoid personal preferences and just put the facts like they are (with through the lenses pictures and specs), rather than subjective impressions, so people can take their own decisions.

 

But if you are my personal preference, it is easy, don´t buy the Rift-S at any cost to punish the Facebook stakeholders (not Oculus team) for not giving the right weight to the VR enthusiast or Space/Race/Flight sims. Yes, we are a niche, but with a clear voice. There is not reason to contribute to the Evil Empire!!  :nea:

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Posted (edited)

I think someone is a little bitter...

;)

 

That is ok though, understandable. I don't let company decisions influence my impression of a headset I am actually using.

And yes I may well get a Reverb or Index, remains to be seen - whenever they do eventually  become available.

If one of them is better for flight sims with still good performance, I will use it and then still use the Rift S for my Oculus Touch games.

 

I go by personal reports from regular folks using the device rather than a bunch of technical specs, but that is just me.

I was very critical of the Rift S and at first was not going to get one, so if I did not think it was all that good I would certainly state so. Me owning

it would not play into that.

 

Edited by dburne
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I have to go along with dburne. His reviews sound very well thought out without any real ax to grind, IMO. They have definitely swayed my thoughts about VR and my interest in trying it out. It'll be mid summer before I do, but unless owners start complaining about Rift S units dying in droves suddenly, it will be my choice. I want to experience the BoX P-51 and P-38 in VR.

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Posted (edited)

Appreciate the roundup OP!

 

This is my opinion (as a current Vive owner):

 

Rift S - Certainly an upgrade over Gen 1, cheap, available now, wont strain GPU much. But I prefer SteamVR/ OpenVR ecosystem and all the other headsets will likely be better anyway. Its a mass market HMD. 

 

Index - Probably the best option but it will be several months before we can get it. I dont need the base stations or knuckles since I already have Vive base stations/ controllers.  And this just reinforces my point about SteamVR/ OpenVR - everything is compatible with each other! Want to pair HTC base stations with a Pimax hedset and Valve controllers? SURE! No "proprietary" BS like with Facebook. Allows you to mix and match with the best products in the market.

 

Reverb - Has the best resolution which is great for flight sims where you need the res. But we still dont know how good it will be in practice. My biggest worry is performance - how the heck am I supposed to push 9.3 million pixels? Right now, with my 1080Ti I run the Vive at 130% SS for IL2. That's a mere 3.3 million pixels and I already get performance issues. 

 

 

Conclusion - I am tempted to get the Rift S but its a sub-optimal choice unless you are budget conscious or impatient. Index is probably the best option, especially if you play other VR games where it will benefit from better tracking and the knuckles controllers. Rift S for those who don't mind mind being in a anti-consumer, closed "exclusive" ecosystem like we see  in the console wars. Reverb might be like the Pimax X- good on paper only. BUT, we will only know for sure when we can actually get our hands on all of them.

 

Edit @chiliwili69: You have mentioned USD 450 for the Index, but it is USD 500 on Valve website?

 

Edited by cranium1

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Since there is the software out to run the Quest using 5GHz WiFi without lag or signal issues connected to your PC now, there's no reason left for the Rift S anymore atm.

Quest is wireless and plays your PC titles, connected to the PC.

 

All you need is a separate 5GHz Router in the same room.

 

 

Regarding the headset debate, I am still wondering. The Reverb is interesting, but I'm worried about chromatic aberration and blur when leaving the lenses' sweetspots. And it's unclear if they can compete with the giant sweetspots of the Pimax 5k+.

 

It's essential to check your own six...

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12 hours ago, dburne said:

I think someone is a little bitter...

;)

 

That is ok though, understandable. I don't let company decisions influence my impression of a headset I am actually using.

And yes I may well get a Reverb or Index, remains to be seen - whenever they do eventually  become available.

If one of them is better for flight sims with still good performance, I will use it and then still use the Rift S for my Oculus Touch games.

 

I go by personal reports from regular folks using the device rather than a bunch of technical specs, but that is just me.

I was very critical of the Rift S and at first was not going to get one, so if I did not think it was all that good I would certainly state so. Me owning

it would not play into that.

 

Give me a break you've been an oculus fanboy since day one. Can't roll my eyes hard enough. 

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I think approximate pixels-per-degree (and subpixels per degree, since RGB vs Pentile) and lens technology should somehow be included in this. For example the Oculus lenses are very good, Pimax and Reverb are so-so, and Index will have 2-element lenses that might be a lot better than even the Oculus tech.

 

Might also want to add software ecosystem. Again Oculus’ ASW tech is a leader here.

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The trend towards a fixed ipd makes both the riftS and reverb a no go for those of us above the optimal 68mm range. Choice gets substantially narrower.



 

32 minutes ago, Alonzo_LW said:

 

Might also want to add software ecosystem. Again Oculus’ ASW tech is a leader here.


For me and "imho", I long to get rid of that ecosystem. Only want a new Hmd much like I would expect only a monitor If i were to buy a new one - rather than the mandatory walled garden of what I consider 99% indie games I get in my face everytime I want to play a steam game. Which is all I use the otherwise brilliant Rift for.

As for oculus Asw, you have a point there. Not sure how far behind steam is today.

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1 hour ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Since there is the software out to run the Quest using 5GHz WiFi without lag or signal issues connected to your PC now, there's no reason left for the Rift S anymore atm.

Quest is wireless and plays your PC titles, connected to the PC.

 

All you need is a separate 5GHz Router in the same room.


News to me. That makes the quest a proper contender and it deserves a spot on the list.

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It is a good summary but slightly theoretical given current status quo. I pre-ordered Index and also bought Rift S, both on release. I am happy with Rift S because I can use it now and it is a tangible improvement compared to CV1. Not like Index which is is not coming out until end of June and HP Reverb which is currently awol. I do have big hopes for Index and will then maybe sell my Rift S. I am skeptical re HP Reverb: I have OCed CPU (i7 7700k 5 GHz) / GPU (1080Ti) and still struggle with performance already with Rift S. Judging by various threads here even 2080Ti might not cut it currently in IL-2 so I wonder what hardware you would need to actually benefit from the higher pixels? 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Alonzo_LW said:

I think approximate pixels-per-degree (and subpixels per degree, since RGB vs Pentile) and lens technology should somehow be included in this. For example the Oculus lenses are very good, Pimax and Reverb are so-so, and Index will have 2-element lenses that might be a lot better than even the Oculus tech. 

 

Might also want to add software ecosystem. Again Oculus’ ASW tech is a leader here.

 

I thought the Pimax lenses were the best out of all, because of a Sweetspot that was as large as the Rift CV1's entire lenses.

 

The Reverb lenses are what I am worrying about.

 

The Index' lenses, I haven't found information to yet, very interesting. I think lens quality is often underestimated, it's very important.

 

Regarding ASW tech, Windows Mixed Reality have the same ASW as Oculus, as far as I know. You can activate it via Steam\steamapps\common\MixedRealityVRDriver\resources\settings\default.vrsettings   open with notepad/atom and put in line  "motionReprojectionMode" : "auto",    

 

I am using it...

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Posted (edited)

I have gotten an 1755MHz overclocked RTX2080ti model, and it can stem the Pixels needed (I ramped up SS to imitate 1.2*native Reverb resolution).

 

IL-2 is heavily bottlenecked by the CPU, just like DCS and X-Plane.

 

That's the reason why the Valve Index won't do any wonders. 120Hz vs 90Hz need 1/3rd more processing power from the CPU first, before it feeds the Graphicscard. So the 120Hz aren't possible to maintain, and the Index will only have the Odyssey's resolution over a slightly wider FOV (which means less pixels per inch), with worse headphones, but a more comfortable strap. If you want to spent 600 for that, go ahead.

 

That's why I tell anyone - who asks about the Valve Index for Simulators - to stay away from it.

 

 

P.S. You can use the Lighthouse System with Controllers for Windows Mixed Reality devices as well. And since you can buy them seperately.... 😀

Edited by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

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Posted (edited)

I pre-ordered the Reverb ...I'll check back in once I have it👍

Edited by HellCat_

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21 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

I prefer to avoid personal preferences and just put the facts like they are (with through the lenses pictures and specs), rather than subjective impressions, so people can take their own decisions.

 

I suspect you have no equivalent to Consumers Report in Spain, and you probably ignore Amazon ratings & reviews. Speaking as a really old fart, I rely upon the "hands on" anecdotal evidence (reviews) of sources I consider reliable even if others think they're biased. You're probably too young to remember 4 channel stereo from the early 70s or the VHS -vs- Betamax format war from the early 80s.

 

I see a Rift S in my future, thanks @dburne

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11 minutes ago, busdriver said:

 

I suspect you have no equivalent to Consumers Report in Spain, and you probably ignore Amazon ratings & reviews. Speaking as a really old fart, I rely upon the "hands on" anecdotal evidence (reviews) of sources I consider reliable even if others think they're biased. You're probably too young to remember 4 channel stereo from the early 70s or the VHS -vs- Betamax format war from the early 80s.

 

I see a Rift S in my future, thanks @dburne

 

Thanks for the vote of confidence.

The Rift S is a very nice kit.

Beware though, that included audio strap is crap. If you care anything about audio get either some earbuds, or if you prefer over ear you will

need to get headset that will fit with the Halo design of the Rift S. Thankfully Oculus did at least supply an audio jack.

I got the Klipsch R6 II earbuds ( I prefer in ear) and the sound is superb.

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8 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Regarding ASW tech, Windows Mixed Reality have the same ASW as Oculus, as far as I know. You can activate it via Steam\steamapps\common\MixedRealityVRDriver\resources\settings\default.vrsettings   open with notepad/atom and put in line  "motionReprojectionMode" : "auto",    

 

I am using it...

 

I think the Oculus implementation is pretty cutting edge. Their recent dev blog showed how they were using new NVidia Turing tech to make it even better. I know WMR has a smoothing equivalent, but ASW 2.0 has very specific new features -- it doesn't just smooth frame to frame, it requires the depth buffer so it can properly interpret the scene. I am finding the propellor artifacts are completely gone on the new ASW 2.0.

 

10 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Since there is the software out to run the Quest using 5GHz WiFi without lag or signal issues connected to your PC now, there's no reason left for the Rift S anymore atm.

Quest is wireless and plays your PC titles, connected to the PC.

 

All you need is a separate 5GHz Router in the same room.

 

I saw a Tyriel Wood video and his setup was showing 60ms latency once you add up video encode, wireless transmission time and then decode on the Quest headset. I'd guess that is a tangible difference over a 12ms latency on the Rift S. It's still pretty amazing that you could use the Quest as a PC headset though, that's awesome.

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Need to correct the FOV values for the Pimax 5K+

 

130 - 150 - 170 / Small - Normal - Large

 

Checking clocks on my 2080 and found a decent improvement by boosting Mem clocks by 500 using MSI Afterburner.  I boosted the core clock only by +150.  Be interesting to see what the RTX refresh does for Il2 and VR with the faster Memory.  Sure it will be affordable as only Nvidia can do (cough, sell kidney, cough). 😄

 

Although the ride with my Pimax 8K has been mixed - I would be keen on upgrading it when they release the 8K-X but only with a return and payment difference on my 8K which will be RMA in the next few months due to plastic integrity issues on the Front of the headset.  It works a treat but there are cracks left, right bottom top and front.  Would also hope to get lighthouses and controllers soon too even though I use it mostly for seated VR - ok mainly Il2 - like 95%👍

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To me, unless the Valve Index reviews are out of this world...I plan on going with the HP Reverb and utilize the lighthouse system for improved tracking.  Every single individual who has reviewed the Reverb has said the picture quality is light years ahead of any other consumer grade HMD on the market.  To me..that's the number one selling point.  

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15 minutes ago, AuburnAlumni said:

To me, unless the Valve Index reviews are out of this world...I plan on going with the HP Reverb and utilize the lighthouse system for improved tracking.  Every single individual who has reviewed the Reverb has said the picture quality is light years ahead of any other consumer grade HMD on the market.  To me..that's the number one selling point.  

 

It will be interesting to hear how a game like IL-2 does with the Reverb in performance.

 

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12 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Index will only have the Odyssey's resolution

Odyssey has pentile screen and worse optical resolution. That's why chilli compares only LCD headsets.

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Alonzo_LW said:

 

I think the Oculus implementation is pretty cutting edge. Their recent dev blog showed how they were using new NVidia Turing tech to make it even better. I know WMR has a smoothing equivalent, but ASW 2.0 has very specific new features -- it doesn't just smooth frame to frame, it requires the depth buffer so it can properly interpret the scene. I am finding the propellor artifacts are completely gone on the new ASW 2.0.

 

 

I saw a Tyriel Wood video and his setup was showing 60ms latency once you add up video encode, wireless transmission time and then decode on the Quest headset. I'd guess that is a tangible difference over a 12ms latency on the Rift S. It's still pretty amazing that you could use the Quest as a PC headset though, that's awesome.

Thanks for the information on ASW2. The current WMR seems to use depth buffer as well, but not always - some aircrafts show the prop artifacts, others don't. I assume the Oculus software is better in that regard.

 

Regarding the Quest:

Tyreal Wood was using the wrong software. There's another software package on GitHub that SweViver used and showed two videos with it, in comparison to Wood's used software. And the open one from GitHub worked well, with the latency issue from the propietary software Mr Wood bought mitigated.

 

P.S. the setup process however does not seem trivial. It takes a lot of fiddling around once for each game. So the Rift S still has its place, very consumer friendly headset that works out of the box I've read. With proper controller integration.

Edited by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

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Posted (edited)

I am currently waiting for the Index, seems like the best mix of specs all around. I think its a bit more expensive than it should be (especially when it comes with no controllers at that price).

 

However i will be looking out for reviews and will gladly change my choice if there are better options out there. I currently dont use my Vive much due to the low res.

 

PS: on a different note, i showed Pavlov VR to my dad yesterday and he was blown away. He was trying to lean on some of the world objects like cars and he almost fell.

Edited by Jade_Monkey

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Just got the Rift S. Even if something better should come out in the next 6 months (which I doubt) I must say getting it was a very good choice 😎

Coming from a CV1 the crisp and clear display just blows me away. It's also very comfortable, nose gap is there, and you can lift it over your head momentarily just like the CV1.

Sound of course is what it is, will get some good earbuds.

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4 minutes ago, Nibbio said:

Just got the Rift S. Even if something better should come out in the next 6 months (which I doubt) I must say getting it was a very good choice 😎

Coming from a CV1 the crisp and clear display just blows me away. It's also very comfortable, nose gap is there, and you can lift it over your head momentarily just like the CV1.

Sound of course is what it is, will get some good earbuds.

 

Yeah I am still blown away by the image clarity in the Rift S.

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Hi guys! I've had my Rift for almost 2 years now so starting to look for an upgrade. I primarily want a bigger FOV but also quality and simplicity so Pimax 5K+ doesn't appeal to me so much. Index looks promising but a new HMD combining the specs of the Reverb with the FOV of Index (or maybe up to 150º) is really what I'm looking for. Do you know if this is in the making? Or maybe I should just go for the Index in the meantime?

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What about this?

 

https://uploadvr.com/rift-s-hidden-resolution-setting/

On 5/27/2019 at 11:26 AM, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Since there is the software out to run the Quest using 5GHz WiFi without lag or signal issues connected to your PC now, there's no reason left for the Rift S anymore atm.

Quest is wireless and plays your PC titles, connected to the PC.

 

All you need is a separate 5GHz Router in the same room.

 

 

Regarding the headset debate, I am still wondering. The Reverb is interesting, but I'm worried about chromatic aberration and blur when leaving the lenses' sweetspots. And it's unclear if they can compete with the giant sweetspots of the Pimax 5k+.

 

It's essential to check your own six...

Thanks!! Did you alredy try it then?

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38 minutes ago, frosen said:

Hi guys! I've had my Rift for almost 2 years now so starting to look for an upgrade. I primarily want a bigger FOV but also quality and simplicity so Pimax 5K+ doesn't appeal to me so much. Index looks promising but a new HMD combining the specs of the Reverb with the FOV of Index (or maybe up to 150º) is really what I'm looking for. Do you know if this is in the making? Or maybe I should just go for the Index in the meantime?

May be ACER ConceptD?

https://www.roadtovr.com/acer-conceptd-ojo-headset-announcement/

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Posted (edited)
On 5/30/2019 at 10:15 AM, frosen said:

Hi guys! I've had my Rift for almost 2 years now so starting to look for an upgrade. I primarily want a bigger FOV but also quality and simplicity so Pimax 5K+ doesn't appeal to me so much. Index looks promising but a new HMD combining the specs of the Reverb with the FOV of Index (or maybe up to 150º) is really what I'm looking for. Do you know if this is in the making? Or maybe I should just go for the Index in the meantime?

 

Resolution and FOV is what we all want, in addition to performance, ergonomics/confort, large sweet spot and good audio.

 

But if you increase FOV and don´t increase resolution proportionally, you end up loosing angular resolution (pixels per degree, PPD). In these terms, the Rift-S has theoretically a better angular resolution than the Index, just only dividing horizontal res per horizontal actual FOV we have:

 

Untitled.jpg.d2115e7ccbbfec5cf00fb4037493e955.jpg

 

Of course, this might not be the actual ppd, just a basic calc since it depends also on panel utilization, lens distortion correction, use of FFR, etc:  http://doc-ok.org/?p=1694

 

Regarding the Pimax5K+ it is bringing large FOV and also resolution, but according to the through the lens picture I took it doesn´t seem to increase a lot the level of detail over the Rift.

 

But IMHO, Piamx5K+ is quite OK in quality and simplicity (software), but probably not at the level of the Index as I read: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/05/one-week-with-the-valve-index-a-vr-game-changer-with-a-few-question-marks/

 

Edited by chiliwili69

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

Resolution and FOV is what we all want, in addition to performance, ergonomics/confort, large sweet spot and good audio.

 

But if you increase FOV and don´t increase resolution proportionally, you end up loosing angular resolution (pixels per degree, PPD). In these terms, the Rift-S has theoretically a better angular resolution than the Index, just only dividing horizontal res per horizontal actual FOV we have:

 

Untitled.jpg.d2115e7ccbbfec5cf00fb4037493e955.jpg

 

Of course, this might not be the actual ppd, just a basic calc since it depends also on panel utilization, lens distortion correction, use of FFR, etc:  http://doc-ok.org/?p=1694

 

Regarding the Pimax5K+ it is bringing large FOV and also resolution, but according to the through the lens picture I took it doesn´t seem to increase a lot the level of detail over the Rift.

 

But IMHO, Piamx5K+ is quite OK in quality and simplicity (software), but probably not at the level of the Index as I read: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/05/one-week-with-the-valve-index-a-vr-game-changer-with-a-few-question-marks/

 

Thank you Chili and Tapi!

 

From what I see now, I will wait till the Index are out and if the user reviews are as good as the previews are now, I will likely buy it. Now, all I have to do is wait till September... ☹️

Edited by frosen

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I was pre-ordering the Index at 1st of May, so I expect it for end June.

I will report wait I see through the lens.

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9 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

I was pre-ordering the Index at 1st of May, so I expect it for end June.

I will report wait I see through the lens.

 

I'm going to be super interested to see some comparison shots through the lens as well as your usual methodical evaluation of the headset. If the Index comes to Canada officially (or if it's been out for a while in the US and the bugs are ironed out) I might look at getting one closer to Christmas.

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On 5/27/2019 at 8:10 PM, busdriver said:

you probably ignore Amazon ratings & reviews

 

In fact, the Rift-S has the lowest ratings among the Oculus Headsets, it has 3.7 comparing with 4.2 for Rift. So, in terms of rating the Rift-S is currently worst than Rift.

https://www.roadtovr.com/rift-s-lowest-rated-vr-headset-amazon-quest-vaults-ahead/

 

If there would be no other VR headset in the market than Oculus, I would buy the Rift-S over the Rift being already conscious of their deficiencies and having the right expectations (like no IPD adjustment, weak audio, worse contrast, and a lower refresh rate).

But fortunately for all of us, there are other VR headset around with LCD (Index, Reverb, Pimax5K+) or OLED (Odyssey+, Pimax8K, Pimax5K XR)

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3 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

In fact, the Rift-S has the lowest ratings among the Oculus Headsets, it has 3.7 comparing with 4.2 for Rift. So, in terms of rating the Rift-S is currently worst than Rift.

https://www.roadtovr.com/rift-s-lowest-rated-vr-headset-amazon-quest-vaults-ahead/

 

 

I think maybe the Rift S was rushed out to market, especially as they released it along with the Quest release, and it certainly has some teething problems.

Oculus definitely needs to get these issues ironed out ASAP. 

I expect they are getting way more returns than they had anticipated.

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21 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Why do you order an Index if you have a Pimax5k+ already?

 

I just want to compare personally the Index and the Reverb (I will order when available) with Pimax5K+. Reviews and comments are good, but nothing like use it with my own eyes.

Basically I need to know the trade off of three variables: Resolution, FOV and comfort.

Other variables like Sweet spot, Audio, visual defects, performance, etc are also important.

 

Obviously I will keep just one.

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Collecting the data and making table comparition can be usefull for many people, including me. Thanks for your work.

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8 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

I just want to compare personally the Index and the Reverb (I will order when available) with Pimax5K+. Reviews and comments are good, but nothing like use it with my own eyes.

Basically I need to know the trade off of three variables: Resolution, FOV and comfort.

Other variables like Sweet spot, Audio, visual defects, performance, etc are also important. 

 

Obviously I will keep just one.

Interesting. By the way, are you someone who has used glasses for a time in his life?

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