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jozeff

necessary key bindings for JU52?

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Hi Guys,

 

Just bought the JU52 and love it!

 

I'm setting up my controls and I find it hard to find all available functions to master this plane. I mean, there are so many engine settings and I just dont know which to assign to my joystick and throttle.

 

is there a manual or something that helps me bind the necessary functions? Is it possible to bind shifted buttons in IL2? I'd like to use my lever as a shift button but IL2 only takes one single keypress?

 

thanks in advance!

Jozeff

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You can bind shift+key, Left Alt+key, left ctrl+key, Windows +key and ofcourse all the right Alt,ctrl,shift + key

Same with buttons, but I dont think you can do the same with axes (lever). You can use some program to make a Joy button be shift or Alt etc..

Also if you experiment you can use same lever for diferent things on diferent planes... As far as I know no plane with water radiators on lever has also inlet or outlet shutters so you can map both things on same lever with no conflict... Etc.

 

For the ju52 is rather simple. You have (3) throttles, mixture controls, oil radiators. And trims and flaps. Do read on the specifications how the flaps are usted, becasue it's diferent to all other planes!

Also there is a left brake, right brake and "universal" brake that depends on rudder position, the brakes on the ju52 IRL are operated by the throttle leavers, if you  use 20 or 25% is idle, less than that, and you are breaking. Left engine=left brake, right engine=right brake, nose engine=both brakes.

 

Good luck and have fun!

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The flaps are weird too. I guess in the mid-30s they really were just throwing airctaft design at the wall to see if it sticked. What you do, is you bind the flaps to the horizontal stabilizer. Binded they work together, unbinded you only move the stabilizer. IIRC you have to manually set a key to that function. The flying tips say what setting to use during takeoff and landing.

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Even with a two throttle lever HOTAS I find it fustrating to make a setup for this plane. It is the only aircraft that I have to change all the setting for to make it work. This is the only plane where I really need a plane specific profile like in DCS etc. 

 

This is mostly because of the way it assigns the engine numbers. 1=left, 2=mid...... instead of 1 and 2 being the outside engines.

Edited by AeroAce
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Great information everyone. The JU52 is definitely the odd duck in the game with its third engine, breaking, and flaps system. I bought the JU52 when it was on sale in April and I totally relate to the original poster's questions. Though I must admit, it seems odd we must configure the throttle control of the third/middle engine by ourselves and that it is not already set to the default controls like all other engines in the game. 


In my quest of learning to fly this aircraft I found this video very helpful as it covers the biggest issues of breaking and the flap systems for take offs and landings. Flying is the easy part. lol
 

 

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I guess if you want to fully simulate the operation of each setting it gets troublesome, but for general mission flying it's not really needed. I've set it up for 1) throttle (combined across 3 engines)   2) mixture (combined across 3 engines)  3) oil rads (combined)  4) water rads (combined) and 5) differential brake, i.e. single button but you control it with rudders.  You can land it at 100kph without any flaps with 2,000kg payload without any problems.    Just take it easy and slow and it's totally manageable.

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5 hours ago, AeroAce said:

Even with a two throttle lever HOTAS I find it fustrating to make a setup for this plane. It is the only aircraft that I have to change all the setting for to make it work. This is the only plane where I really need a plane specific profile like in DCS etc. 

 

This is mostly because of the way it assigns the engine numbers. 1=left, 2=mid...... instead of 1 and 2 being the outside engines.

 

 

Seconded on wishing for Plane Specific profiles...that's probably the biggest problem with the Ju-52 having 3 engines. 

 

For those of us with too much old gear, you can bind the engine throttles to something like a Saitek 3-lever Quadrant and use the Hotas for everything else as normal, just ignoring the throttle on the HOTAS.  I'm using a custom GVL device with 8 axis-controls on it, and there is still no way to do a universal binding that works for the JU-52 and other planes too.   

Edited by II./JG1_EmerlistDavjack

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Thanks so much guys!

 

For your information I have thrustmaster warthog/ throttle and a t16000 joystick and also a CH pro yoke + some pedals. 

 

This gives an endless amount of possible bindings and that's what makes it more confusing to me.....

 

So, should I set up the engines separately or stick them to one lever? How do I do that?

 

 

Thanks again! Great community!!

 

Jozeff

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Warthog user also  - I set the outer engines (1 and 3) to left throttle and the central engine to the other. Mixutre is set across the board and i use the Z keys for engine 1 and 3 selection and the  X key for engine 2 in case i need to adjust the mixture or inlet cowls independently. I could add another binding to further separate 1 and 3 in this regard but have never found that ive need to. Common engine control is the \ key.  Mixture is on the small gret axis of slider of the warthog.

 

The flaps toggle used for other aircraft acts as the link/unlink and the pitch trim/stab thats set on my stick's hat switch, works to lower the/raise the flaps and alter the trim as it should. 

 

The central engine's power is useful in keeping the aircraft rolling when turning on the ground and the brakes retard the throttle to the engine on the side the brake is being depressed so there is no need for a third level to adjust the throttle when turning in any case. 

 

This has been my standard set up since day 1 for the Ju52 and it doesnt interfere with any other aircraft. On twins Engine 1 is always the left throttle and 2 the right, and on fighters the throttels are linked anyhow.  Im not quite such why some others seem to be having so much trouble although ive never flown the 52 using any throttle differentiion between left/right so perhaps that could be it as i dont think selecting a specific engine "switches off" axis throttles (but im not sure).

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Wow, thanks!

 

So if I sum this correctly:

 

Left throttle on warthog = engine 1+3

Right throttle on warthog = engine 2

Select engine 1/3 = z

Select engine 2 = x

Mixture = lever on warthog to adjust selected engine.

 

Cowl flaps = some joystick button (are these on/off switched or also a lever)?

 

Flaps toggle = f (are these in steps or continuously)?

 

Pitch trim = hat switch on joystick

 

Some more questions:

 

Is there roll trim or yaw trim for this aircraft?

 

What do you mean by "link/unlink flaps"? Is the flaps setting equal to trim?

 

How can I steer to the left/right on ground if left and right engine are linked together?

 

Thanks a lot!!! Appreciated!

 

Jozeff

 

 

 

 

 

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Hello Jozeff

 

Basically as you say but remember to assign a button for select all engines. It might be me but it saves having to reselect all the other engines once you selected one on its own. 

 

The flaps on the Ju52 do not work like any other aircraft. They need to be linked to your elevator trim to activate. So in this case the grey flap switch on the warthog acts at the link/unlink lever. Once linked (it takes a couple of seconds) as you increase the pitch trim, the flaps lower, increase the flaps raise. Requiems video above demonstrates this and how you set you the trim prior to linkng the flaps. If you use the tech chat the trim should be at -50% before engaging the flaps. Take off flaps are roughly 50% flaps and the Elevator trim at 0 and landing up to 100 flaps and the tim at around 75 or 80.

 

The Ju52 has roll, pitch and rudder trim from memory. I use the left/right postions on my hat for rudder then add a modifier (CTRL) and left right for the roll. 

 

Steering - if you assign footbrakes l/r to something (i have footbrakes on my MFG pedals but you could use buttons) if you press one it will retard the throttle on the side you are braking enabling the aircraft to turn in that direction. If its an axis you can control the amount of the effect moderately but this isnt really essential. Additionally and as explained above the Rudder also works with the general breaking button (Wheel Brakes in the key bindings). So holding FULL rudder left or right and holding the general wheel brakes button will fully cut the throttle on the side the rudder is depressed. On the throttle quandrant you will see "Bremsen" (Brakes) when the throttle is in this section it is braking the aircraft. When the rudder is not at its extremes the effect of the braking is differetiated (so lessened on engine that is opposite to the direction of the rudder). When the rudder pedals are central BOTH left and right engine throttles are retarded into the "Bremsen" zone and by either the amount of the braking if on an axis or fully if a button is used.  My understanding is that the central engine throttle position has no effect on the breaking. It is certainly not affected by the general brakes being activiated when the ruddeer is centralised. 

 

The Ju52 is big heavy and slow so remember that ground handling needs to be done carefully and the turn needs to be arrested early. You cant just stop breaking and expect the aircraft to start rolling straight. Thankfully you have a rudder the size of a small country to help you as well. 

 

Finally there is a parking brake - this can be toggled best by assigning a modifier to the key you use for general braking (so if that was "B" then perhaps Ctrl + B"). Unlike some other aircraft with a parking brake, once set, it cant be disengaged simply by pressing the brakes. It does have to be specifically disengaged. If you cold start it will propbably be one from the start so a binding for it is important.

 

It all sounds complicated but in practice the Devs have done a really good job at making all this little oddities of the Ju52 work really well.Once you start to fly it, it all drops into place.

Edited by SCG_BOO
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Not specific to the JU-52, but as long as you are figuring out controls...another thing about binding for this game is that some controls don't overlap across planes and can be bound to the same axis.  For instance,  because right now the P-47 is the only plane to use these two controls, I have "Supercharger" bound to the lever I use for "Water radiator" (P-47 doesnt use this) and I have "Intercooler" bound to the axis I use for "Inlet Cowl Flaps."    Likewise, for an obvious example, no plane has both Elevator Trim AND Adjustable Stabilizer, so that can all go on the same controls.

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Thanks a lot guys!

 

I'll try some of your settings in the weekend. I asked you for help because I have little time to fly. Maybe an hour or two in the weekend. Most of my time last year I spent trying to bind controls in dcs using TARGET, joy2key and joystick gremlin. Each time I was ready to fly my time was up......

The next week I forgot all my settings and had to start all over.

 

Cheers 

 

Jozeff

 

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Hi scgboo,

 

Thanks a lot! Davjack also.

 

I configured quite a few thins in the ju52 using TARGET this afternoon. A bit complicated but working now.

 

The problem I have now is I don't understand how you link/unlink the flaps to the grey flap lever on my throttle! What is the command in il2 that causes this link/unlink?

 

Can I use  trim pitch even when I pitch trim not connected to flaps? I mean, I assigned hay switch to trim and have no idea if this alters my flaps or not.

 

 

Thanks again!!

 

Cheers

Jozeff

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1 hour ago, jozeff said:

Hi scgboo,

 

Thanks a lot! Davjack also.

 

I configured quite a few thins in the ju52 using TARGET this afternoon. A bit complicated but working now.

 

The problem I have now is I don't understand how you link/unlink the flaps to the grey flap lever on my throttle! What is the command in il2 that causes this link/unlink?

 

Can I use  trim pitch even when I pitch trim not connected to flaps? I mean, I assigned hay switch to trim and have no idea if this alters my flaps or not.

 

 

Thanks again!!

 

Cheers

Jozeff

Just click your normal flaps down button once.  It will say flaps control enabled in the hud.(red knob to the right of pilot seat will move)  Then use stabilizer trim to pitch up.  Flaps will go down as the stabilizer trims up.  You can then disable again (hit flaps up button) and use trim as normal.  Enable again when you want to move the flaps again and trim the stab down.

 

There is a flap/trim indicator on the left wall that shows you the position of the flaps and the stab trim

Edited by Plurp
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Thanks a lot!!

 

So the normal pitch trim is different from the stabilizer trim?

 

If I trim normally it will trim some flap on the elevator I guess and when I enable flap switch I can trim the flaps is that correct?

 

Tnx!

 

Jozeff

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1 hour ago, jozeff said:

Thanks a lot!!

 

So the normal pitch trim is different from the stabilizer trim?

 

If I trim normally it will trim some flap on the elevator I guess and when I enable flap switch I can trim the flaps is that correct?

 

Tnx!

 

Jozeff

If flaps are not enabled it will just trim the stabilizer (another binding separate from elevator trim (just bind it to the same key/button)  If flaps are enabled it will lower the flaps and trim the stabilizer with the stabilizer key binding.

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did anyone mention oil and air inlet radiators ? might want to bind these too

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3 hours ago, Herne said:

did anyone mention oil and air inlet radiators ? might want to bind these too

 

I'm of the opinion that with the Ju 52, it's probably more realistic to let the AI manage them, since that's what the flight engineer would be handling. 

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The key binding for that dang parking brake was missing for me, and I'm ashamed to say I took it for several flights before reading above about it.  Kept checking back here wondering if long, slow takeoffs with overheating engines was normal.

 

Really need some docs for these birds.

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55 minutes ago, Stoopy said:

Really need some docs for these birds.

 

Check Requiem's YouTube channel.

3 hours ago, LukeFF said:

I'm of the opinion that with the Ju 52, it's probably more realistic to let the AI manage them, since that's what the flight engineer would be handling.

 

@Geronimo553, what exactly is confusing about what I wrote? The flight engineer has the controls for the radiators in front of him, not the pilot, so he would be the one monitoring the engine temperatures and adjusting the radiators as necessary. So, because of that, it's not unrealistic to let the AI manage those things while, you, the pilot, manage the throttles and the control surfaces.

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3 hours ago, LukeFF said:
6 hours ago, Herne said:

did anyone mention oil and air inlet radiators ? might want to bind these too

 

I'm of the opinion that with the Ju 52, it's probably more realistic to let the AI manage them, since that's what the flight engineer would be handling. 

Copilot, as it are the handwheels in front of his knees.

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8 minutes ago, Yogiflight said:

Copilot, as it are the handwheels in front of his knees.

 

The manuals for the Ju 52 describe the position as being for a flight engineer (bordwart).

 

Capture.JPG.9c1267fcee2d40a508d8dd1840d7007b.JPG

Edited by LukeFF

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1 hour ago, LukeFF said:

 

Check Requiem's YouTube channel.

 

 

Yup...I sub'bed to his channel long, long ago, without him, I think we'd only see half the people flying this sim as we do now.   😎

 

He says to release the parking brakes at 8:08, that's about it, never says how (not his job anyway).   Parking brake is not released by tapping the toe brakes like some other A/C....  I also looked through the key mappings more than a couple times before finally spotting it.   So some docs or simple text file of release notes for these birds would help, although it's academic at this point.

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11 hours ago, LukeFF said:

The manuals for the Ju 52 describe the position as being for a flight engineer (bordwart).

I see. I had not read a manual of the 52 but was refering to how it is used today, where the second man in the cockpit is a pilot, too. But maybe today pilots are better educated in engineering than they were back in that days.

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Ok, so I configured the followingffor the ju52.

 

Pitch trim

Yaw trim

Throttle 1 3

Throttle 2

Mixture

Flaps

Canopy

Oil radiator

Cowling flaps

Stabilizer (same key as pitch trim).

 

 

Am I missing some bindings??

 

Thanks a lot for your input

 

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28 minutes ago, jozeffffff said:

Ok, so I configured the followingffor the ju52.

 

Pitch trim

Yaw trim

Throttle 1 3

Throttle 2

Mixture

Flaps

Canopy

Oil radiator

Cowling flaps

Stabilizer (same key as pitch trim).

 

 

Am I missing some bindings??

 

Thanks a lot for your input

 

 

Parking Brake!  Tapping the toe brakes/rudder pedals won't cut it...

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1 hour ago, jozeffffff said:

Ok, so I configured the followingffor the ju52.

 

Pitch trim

Yaw trim

Throttle 1 3

Throttle 2

Mixture

Flaps

Canopy

Oil radiator

Cowling flaps

Stabilizer (same key as pitch trim).

 

 

Am I missing some bindings??

 

Thanks a lot for your input

 

Instead of cowling flaps it should be inlet flaps, and you need of course bomb drop for dropping parachuters, dropping the supply bombs and unloading cargo after landing.

And yes it is stabilizer trim, which has the great advantage, that you can use an axis for it.

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16 hours ago, Stoopy said:

 

Parking Brake!  Tapping the toe brakes/rudder pedals won't cut it...

 

Indeed! Also worst of all, tapping the brake pedals will remove control of the left and right engines. Which seems opening esc menu and closing is the only way to regain control of the engines. It is very odd and I wonder if it is a bug. Engine wheel brakes on/off and moving throttle does not solve it. So just an FYI if anyone else encounters this problem. :soldier:

Edited by Geronimo553

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On 5/25/2019 at 12:13 PM, jozeff said:

Is it possible to bind shifted buttons in IL2? I'd like to use my lever as a shift button but IL2 only takes one single keypress?

 

No and yes. :)

 

No, you can't set a joystick button, example Warthog paddle lever (button #4) as "shift" for other joystick buttons, and double their functions, the controls GUI allow set only one joy button per command - plus key modifier (Alt, Ctrl, Shift, Win).

 

Yes, you can set a joy button, like the Warthog paddle lever (# 4) as modifier for other joystick buttons, by manually edit the file "current.input" and add "joy#"_b#" before other already assigned button for a given command.

 

Example, you want that button #2 (weapons release buttons) fire rockets, and when paddle(#4) is pressed drop bombs.

In game controls assign button # 2 for both commands, then go to "current.input" an change:

 


throw_bombs,                                 joy0_b2,                                   0| // Drop bombs

 

to

 

throw_bombs,                                 joy0_b4+joy0_b2                   0| // Drop bombs

 

*This  joy0 may change for joy1, joy2... depends on your joystick, throttle, pedal... VID/PID.

 

Yes, a bit complicated.:wacko:  Is option for one that have intimacy with configurations files. ;)

 

So try, with TARGET, set Warthog paddle lever button (#4) for press, e.g. LShift and in game controls options assigment window press - with keyboard, not paddle lever*, LShift + joy button.

 

*Seems that if you press the joy button for press LShift in game assignment window, the game give a different ID for this press and things don't work, hence use LShift in keyboard for assignment in controls.

 

 

 

Edited by Sokol1

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"So try, with TARGET, set Warthog paddle lever button (#4) for press, e.g. LShift and in game controls options assigment window press - with keyboard, not paddle lever*, LShift + joy button."

 

i don't exactly understand the above....

 

i bind my lever to l-shift  via TARGET. I make sure I choose l-shift + another joystick command in IL2 assignment. When I push the lever and press the particular joystick button I give the right command, right?

Does left shift Button work or not in il2?

also I have no R-win button on my keyboard.....il2 uses that button quite a few times..

 

thanks alot!!

 

jozeff

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12 minutes ago, jozeff said:

"So try, with TARGET, set Warthog paddle lever button (#4) for press, e.g. LShift and in game controls options assigment window press - with keyboard, not paddle lever*, LShift + joy button."

 

i don't exactly understand the above....

 

The idea is make Paddle lever (#4) a "shift" (modifier) for other buttons.

Then the only thing that you need program in TARGET is button #4 press LShift (or other modifier key you choose). The rest you do in game controls.

 

I don't have TARGET installed for test and my T.16000M stick are partially dismantled (long story). :)

But test with JoyToKey and work OK, a button of stick became a modifier for others. :good:

 

Only can't press that joy button (shift) in controls assingment, but use keyboard, because if you try assign pressing joystick button + joystick button will result

LShift+joy0_b4+joy0_b2, game see paddle lever as keypress and DX button. 

 



also I have no R-win button on my keyboard.....il2 uses that button quite a few times..

 

Now is a different thing , if you are programming* joystick button for send keyboard key press combos - example LShift+F, RWin+F...

the fact that you keyboard don't have RWin is not issue, you are sending RWIN throgh TARGET by press joystick button and not the keyboard key.

 

Will be issue if you need use commands in keyboard, as you don't have that key, in that case change an command with R-WIn+key for some unused key (+L/RAlt, Ctrl, Shift).

 

* In that case, programming joy buttons to send key press combos (e.e.g LShift+F) is need consider the  HOLD/DELAY/PAUSE function of TARGET I mention in other topic, for deal with the way that game code handle combos when sent by external programs.


See more about there: https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/2486-wart-hog-profile/?tab=comments#comment-63224

 

 

 

 

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