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Pe2 Gunner Super Powers


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Honestly right now I avoid Il2 43 mod like the plague but I got good success fighting Peshka's lately without being obliterated by the gunner. 

 

But the Sturmoviks with a turret damnit. I flee them and Im flying a 190. Last time I came from his 6 but much lower, he never saw me and I scored huge hits on him then turned left and started a very steep climb and he managed to snipe my engine from 350 meters away, like not even 2 seconds after being showered by 20 mm shells out of nowhere. I still had enough engine power to make a pass from his 5 o'clock high while he was struggling to level flight and his gunner scored a head shot from 450m away. Lights out. 

 

Thing is, its not an isolated case right now against the 43 Sturmovik. Its turret is far more threatening than a full burst from a Mustang. 

Edited by I./JG52_Woutwocampe
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4 hours ago, I./JG52_Woutwocampe said:

Thing is, its not an isolated case

 

Totally agree.

Now that you flew both the Sturmovik and the 190, you may be able to agree or disagree on another observation of mine in conjunction with such incidents:

 

Whether you fly fighters against AI Sturmoviks or Peshkas, their gunners always seem to have superpowers as if they were not of this world.

However if you fly a Sturmovik or Peshka yourself, as human player, your gunners more often than not seem to be... on strike? drunken? sleeping?

I've had endless encounters where an enemy fighter could attack me from dead six with no issues whatsoever, cause my gunner(s) decided to become pacifists.

And even if they decided to engage the attacking fighter aircraft, they shot wildly into void as if the order of the day was to unload all magazines without causing any collateral damage.

 

Yep, slightly exaggerated, but the core message is: AI gunners seem to be deadly. Gunners of human player planes not so much.

And that's surprising as officially there should be no difference whatsoever.

 

:drinks:

Mike

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5 hours ago, SAS_Storebror said:

 

Totally agree.

Now that you flew both the Sturmovik and the 190, you may be able to agree or disagree on another observation of mine in conjunction with such incidents:

 

Whether you fly fighters against AI Sturmoviks or Peshkas, their gunners always seem to have superpowers as if they were not of this world.

However if you fly a Sturmovik or Peshka yourself, as human player, your gunners more often than not seem to be... on strike? drunken? sleeping?

I've had endless encounters where an enemy fighter could attack me from dead six with no issues whatsoever, cause my gunner(s) decided to become pacifists.

And even if they decided to engage the attacking fighter aircraft, they shot wildly into void as if the order of the day was to unload all magazines without causing any collateral damage.

 

Yep, slightly exaggerated, but the core message is: AI gunners seem to be deadly. Gunners of human player planes not so much.

And that's surprising as officially there should be no difference whatsoever.

 

:drinks:

Mike

 

I currently have a BF110 BOM career going on. Indeed the gunner behaves in a very odd way most of the times. Sometimes he starts shooting randomly when there's no target near. Sometimes he tries to shoot ground targets that are 1500 meters away. Sometimes, he takes naps during intense fights. Sometimes he will snipe MiG3s engines but that mostly when I level flight.

 

The AI of your gunner is the same than the AI gunner of an AI plane. However, the behaviours of an AI pilot are very different from a human pilot. It seems that the unpredictability of a human pilot influences the AI gunner. Sometimes they'll snipe, or sleep, or suffer from intense hallucinations and go trigger happy. 

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55 minutes ago, I./JG52_Woutwocampe said:

Sometimes he starts shooting randomly when there's no target near. Sometimes he tries to shoot ground targets that are 1500 meters away.

This is the reason, why I always order my gunner to shoot at short distance. That makes him shoot at distances, which are realistic.

The quality of the gunner depends on the level of his pilot. If the pilot is ace level, the gunner will be, too. So in career mode it should depend on your rank. If you are flying in the rank of a Feldwebel, your gunner should be lowest level. Through your promotions his level should increase, too. I think this is what I read about it somewhere.

But I have no idea, how it is in MP.

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4 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

This is the reason, why I always order my gunner to shoot at short distance. That makes him shoot at distances, which are realistic.

The quality of the gunner depends on the level of his pilot. If the pilot is ace level, the gunner will be, too. So in career mode it should depend on your rank. If you are flying in the rank of a Feldwebel, your gunner should be lowest level. Through your promotions his level should increase, too. I think this is what I read about it somewhere.

But I have no idea, how it is in MP.

 

I will try to give orders to my gunner. Hopefully it will give better results than sending orders to your wingmen, AKA no result at all.

 

My gunner should be the best then since I'm the commander. I'm not saying he isnt good, he just suffers from severe schizophrenia with a dash of narcolepsy. When the pills kick in though he can destroy a MiG's engine with a single bullet.

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On 1/8/2021 at 4:35 PM, Yogiflight said:

This is the reason, why I always order my gunner to shoot at short distance. That makes him shoot at distances, which are realistic.

 

Yo, that's the first I do as a 110 pilot too, give the gunner two orders: Shoot back only and only at short distances.

 

Without that he's out of ammo quickly or he starts shooting at the ground targets we just attacked.

 

 

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On 1/8/2021 at 4:35 PM, Yogiflight said:

But I have no idea, how it is in MP.

That in fact would be a very interesting and important thing to know, if possible.

In a perfect world, it would be a parameter to be set by the mission maker.

And in the best of all perfect worlds, the MP pilot would have a means to know whether his gunner(s) is/are novice, ace or whatever else in between, quite like you'd know your RL crew members, too.

 

:drinks:

Mike

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  • 1 month later...

pffff I just did a quick bomber attack mission with a couple of friends, just for fun. I got outright pilot-killed three times in ten minutes from quite a distance. Never even saw the tracers. Wayyyyy too deadly, the tail gunners (not just the Pe2, but I didn't want to make a new thread for identical issues with e.g. the b-25)

 

edit: this was with the bombers set to rookie of course.

Edited by blue_max
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43 minutes ago, blue_max said:

pffff I just did a quick bomber attack mission with a couple of friends, just for fun. I got outright pilot-killed three times in ten minutes from quite a distance. Never even saw the tracers. Wayyyyy too deadly, the tail gunners (not just the Pe2, but I didn't want to make a new thread for identical issues with e.g. the b-25)

 

edit: this was with the bombers set to rookie of course.

 

Its problem of the way gunners work in game on all airplanes they aim to good when airplane is manovering, they seam to be telepaticly conected to each other so even though they dont see enemy they can imidiatly react when enemy come to thier cone of view.

 

Why people complain just about Pe-2 is beacouse it has stronger gun on gunnerpositio compared to other bombers , and thats why it was predictable that same complains will happend when B-25C/D comes as it has same strong guns on gunner positions (try atacks on He-111H16 compared to H6).

Its not OP gunners just on Pe-2 or B-25, its the broken way gunners work on all airplanes, but people notice it most on airplanes with bigger caliber of guns, as thouse cal can penetrate armors easyer.

 

And on top they say that each gunner position has separate brain and they are not conected so AI gunners dont cheat like in old il-2, but in game we still have AI gunners who react to fast and know all and cheat same way it seams BUT on top you cant have airplanes with many of them in game (B-17 B24s and so on) as they are now to heavy for game because each gunner has its own brain, epic fail 😄

Edited by CountZero
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11 minutes ago, CountZero said:

 

Its problem of the way gunners work in game on all airplanes they aim to good when airplane is manovering, they seam to be telepaticly conected to each other so even though they dont see enemy they can imidiatly react when enemy come to thier cone of view.

 

Why people complain just about Pe-2 is beacouse it has stronger gun on gunnerpositio compared to other bombers , and thats why it was predictable that same complains will happend when B-25C/D comes as it has same strong guns on gunner positions (try atacks on He-111H6 compared to H2).

Its not OP gunners just on Pe-2 or B-25, its the broken way gunners work on all airplanes, but people notice it most on airplanes with bigger caliber of guns, as thouse cal can penetrate armors easyer.

 

And on top they say that each gunner position has separate brain and they are not conected so AI gunners dont cheat like in old il-2, but in game we still have AI gunners who react to fast and know all and cheat same way it seams BUT on top you cant have airplanes with many of them in game (B-17 B24s and so on) as they are now to heavy for game because each gunner has its own brain, epic fail 😄

yeah, this part of the game is due for a bit of an overhaul. Honestly, I'd be happy with some statistics based system where you just have X% chance / second for Y damage if you fly in the field of fire of a turret, and then some semi-random tracer fire to make it look good. That should be fairly easy on the CPU and easy to adjust / mod to taste.

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The gunners certainly need changes.

They are not good enough at hitting targets on the six, but far too good at hitting targets that require a lot of deflection and utterly superhuman at snap-shots.

 

However, it is possible to engage them whilst being somewhat safe.

Here is a track of myself in a Fw190A3 vs 8 Pe-2s with the turret modification.

I shoot down 5 using head-on and slashing attacks and only take two hits to my own wing.

The bombers are "regular" skill.

Flak hits me right at the end.

 

http://ge.tt/4NdLv8B3

Edited by [DBS]Browning
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