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Monostripezebra

Back to Pe-2 Missions after a long whille

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34 minutes ago, Monostripezebra said:

 

 

Hope your game crashes wevery time you bomb players on spawn, you have objectives to bomb but players like you chouse to haras other players online like this and bomb others on spawn for no reason then troll 

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No it's fun , this is not organized event he can do whatever he wants. I like it and I can be bombed too , no big deal. For someone who streak is important can be bad day ;)

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1 minute ago, 307_Tomcat said:

No it's fun , this is not organized event he can do whatever he wants. I like it and I can be bombed too , no big deal. For someone who streak is important can be bad day ;)

I hope you get bombed on spawn then and have fun with it when you enjoy it so mutch, to me people like him are trolls and help keep MP in bad state it is, you just keep suporting that behavior 

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1 hour ago, 77.CountZero said:

I hope you get bombed on spawn then and have fun with it when you enjoy it so mutch, to me people like him are trolls and help keep MP in bad state it is, you just keep suporting that behavior 

What kind of ppl you are talking  about??? In entire time of my experience in mp , he is only one guy who is doing that ... he has nothing to do with bad state of MF which you referring too. His contribution is insignificant.  If all would do that that would be problems, I admit but nobody is even trying because is not easy to do.

I don't enjoy to be bombed, LOL, just admire the bombing pression and  survival skill.

Edited by 307_Tomcat
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A precision bombing of a spawn point is one of the wonders of the natural world. See how the zebra's camouflage distracts and confuses his predators as he makes his way through the Savannah.

PS read that in David Attenborough's voice.

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Use your fighter plane to defend your airfield. There is nothing more satisfying than taking out a whole flight lined up on the runway for take off.

Edited by [DBS]El_Marta
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4 hours ago, 77.CountZero said:

I hope you get bombed on spawn then and have fun with it when you enjoy it so mutch, to me people like him are trolls and help keep MP in bad state it is, you just keep suporting that behavior 

 

Look, I am not new to computer games and I fully understand where you are coming from, "spawncamping" can range from a valid tactic to be a total dick move breaking gameflow.

 

But in case of Il2: BoX I would like to point out the following facts that make it a legit but ineffective (on fast-action servers) tactic. During limited life/plane events it is actually a valid tactic, but its effects can be a 100% succesfully foiled by simply knowing some basics, so again ineffective against an enemy taking care.. and not or despawing or refraining from long persuits of single alt intruders.

 

So the arguments why it is not "a troll move"

 

a) you are not blocking a spawn point, unlike in FPS where it directly game winning or losing related, you can not block of spawn points in highflying bomber. It is a single temporary event, that takes time and risk to occur. With target distances fairly close in most action packed servers, the time to climb is totally inefficient to "winning or losing" the game compared to flying one-way throwaway low level sorties against mission targets, that is the most time-effective strategy on servers with ample plane supply and short distances. If you take 30mins to climb, route plan etc., targetwise, you are simply not really a factor in efficiency on a 2hrs runtime match, regardless of target in any fast action server.. but the amount of attention you draw by beeing chased afterwards can be a significant factor in helping your team: the more fighters spend time climbing and running after alt-intruders, the more space has the home-team for ops.

 

b) Warning: you get ample of warning in the map screen before the attack and in game world by sirens and flak. You can either move or despawn. Despawing takes less time then the bomb takes falling from 5k. If you stay, you are fair game. Infact, it is not possible to altitude anyone if he/she/it is not either beeing careless and ignorant or deliberately taking that risk.  I myself actually like it more often then not, to take off under a high level bomber attack, it is super dramatic and scenematic and it requires skill and effort by the bombers, especially He-111 guys, so my hats are off to them, and if they get me, they fully deserve it.

 

c) the airfields are tough targets. With high AAA settings and (like wings of liberty, where the vid happened) defedning bot-planes spawned above you on attack, going after airfields is not a trivial "low-skill" or "troll" task, but a real challenge, if you actually intend to fly on home (which is definately the most fun)

,

 

4 hours ago, 307_Tomcat said:

Nice like always, BTW what was yours record  (killed EA on ground)?

 

14 planes of a german squad in 2 approaches, I think 8 or 9 was the most per single bomb.. Scharfi is probably recordholder there, with 12 planes per bomb, but she did not make it back.

Edited by Monostripezebra
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4 hours ago, 77.CountZero said:

I hope you get bombed on spawn then and have fun with it when you enjoy it so mutch, to me people like him are trolls and help keep MP in bad state it is, you just keep suporting that behavior 

You really need to have a talk with almost ALL the dedicated Axis-only pilots then.... 

I've seen entire 2 hour missions where we on the Allies side had to fight our way out of home field for the entire time. 

33 minutes ago, Monostripezebra said:

 

 

c) the airfields are tough targets. With high AAA settings and (like wings of liberty, where the vid happened) defedning bot-planes spawned above you on attack, going after airfields is not a trivial "low-skill" or "troll" task, but a real challenge, if you actually intend to fly on home (which is definately the most fun)

Yep. And that's exactly why later model 190's and 109's can fly 50m meters off the deck, directly over the center of the AF untouched, getting pilots to chase them and dragging them off to ambushes, only to rinse and repeat 5 minutes later, until the fuel runs out. 

Edited by =AVG77=Mobile_BBQ

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19 hours ago, =AVG77=Mobile_BBQ said:

Yep. And that's exactly why later model 190's and 109's can fly 50m meters off the deck, directly over the center of the AF untouched, getting pilots to chase them and dragging them off to ambushes, only to rinse and repeat 5 minutes later, until the fuel runs out. 

 

I haven´t played for a long time, and have not seen that..but I have a hunch that should be relatively well counterable tactic.. by like not doing blind chases, maybe. Also as far as I remember the altitude for avoiding AAA was either above some 3k or more about 3-5m low.

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Its not realy dangerous to bomb spawn base, no one is defending spawn bases so you just need to come high and bomb it,

this is just few axis spawn bombers from wol who do it...

http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/en/sortie/4265475/?tour=47

http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/en/sortie/4206953/?tour=47

http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/en/sortie/4253324/?tour=47

http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/en/sortie/4134593/?tour=46

 

Bases are well protected from low alt attacks, youll do one pass but youll get hit on secound one, but when you bomb from high flak on ace is not effective, and AI fighters get draged away or shoot down by spawn bombers guys escort.

 

I seen it on wol fighter will do recon first over base and report amount of players on it spawning then bomber comes at 7-8km and do 2-3 passes while players are just spawning, and bombers guy escort is just shooting down ai fighters as they are to slow up high (unlike axis ai fighters that shoot you down when you try to do this with pe-2)

 

If spawn base is objective in briefing , then you would have players expecting it to be bombed and defending it, but when you have airfields (that are not spawn airfields) as objectives on missions i see no reason then trolling to bomb humans on spawn points, and on top of that you dont have spawn points scatared all around base, its all at one place in 1 or 2 lines so you know when players sawn where they will always be on airbase.

 

Edited by 77.CountZero

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Spawn base are never objectives in briefing in WoL however it is possible to win the map by destroying enough enemy planes therefore this tactic is valid

 

Your links shows Ju-88 pilot count0. Do you know someone doing so with Pe-2 ?

 

Scharfi probably holds a record but it wasn't a level bombing

Edited by StaB/Tomio_VR***

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3 hours ago, 77.CountZero said:

Its not realy dangerous to bomb spawn base, no one is defending spawn bases so you just need to come high and bomb it,

this is just few axis spawn bombers from wol who do it...

 

Yeah and Camping at 6k-7k with LaGG3 and your LaGG3 Buddy is dangerous?

Tell me this and unlike my other evil comments i mean it honest. I really want to know if this doesn't bore you? Is that the actual reason you fly with a wingman? To have someone to talk to while climbing up and Cycling over your airfield, racing ur streak up to 100 on wol after Shooting all vulchers or the unlucky ones near by? You do 1 and a half kill per hour on a full populated Server where you can make every 10 min at least one kill.

I would die of boredom doing this, so kinda impressive to have that Passion.

Edited by [3./J88]PikAss
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1 hour ago, StaB/Tomio_VR*** said:

Spawn base are never objectives in briefing in WoL however it is possible to win the map by destroying enough enemy planes therefore this tactic is valid

 

Your links shows Ju-88 pilot count0. Do you know someone doing so with Pe-2 ?

 

Scharfi probably holds a record but it wasn't a level bombing

 

zebra in op is only one on vvs side i see doing this and not effectivly

 

but i remenber pokemon was doing it in pe2 one month and it was not as effective as it was in ju88 so he went back to ju88s, best he did in pe2 was 6 destroyed on spawn, in ju88 15, so thats why you see this more on axis side then on vvs.

ju88

http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/en/sortie/4167066/?tour=46

pe2
http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/en/sortie/3350493/?tour=37

39 minutes ago, [3./J88]PikAss said:

 

Yeah and Camping at 6k-7k with LaGG3 and your LaGG3 Buddy is dangerous?

Tell me this and unlike my other evil comments i mean it honest. I really want to know if this doesn't bore you? Is that the actual reason you fly with a wingman? To have someone to talk to while climbing up and Cycling over your airfield, racing ur streak up to 100 on wol after Shooting all vulchers or the unlucky ones near by? You do 1 and a half kill per hour on a full populated Server where you can make every 10 min at least one kill.

I would die of boredom doing this, so kinda impressive to have that Passion.

this sounds familiar are you sure your posting on correct acount handle, this type of coment was directed to my tm8 yesterday in game, that was not you ?

And what if i have 0.33 k/h and spend 2-3h just flying in one sortie, should i go for ace in flight every flight and camp over enemy bases in fast airplanes that can just run away ?

Edited by 77.CountZero
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11 minutes ago, 77.CountZero said:

this sounds familiar are you sure your posting on correct acount handle, this type of coment was directed to my tm8 yesterday in game, that was not you ?

And what if i have 0.33 k/h and spend 2-3h just flying in one sortie, should i go for ace in flight every flight and camp over enemy bases in fast airplanes that can just run away ?

 

Ya I was watching her in steam-streaming. I woud have done better tho. but i fully agree with faster plane crap.

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Last night I saw a He111 bomb the spawn from 7km then just fly away.  I followed the contrail down low for about 3 minutes. I was too low for his gunners to even react.  The piece of crap couldn't even be assed to land at his base. He just exited the mission at 7km.  Good thing I actually don't get bored on long patrols with only a little bit of action.  I might just start stat-whoring on high altitude vulcher bombers.

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3 hours ago, 77.CountZero said:

but i remenber pokemon was doing it in pe2 one month and it was not as effective as it was in ju88 so he went back to ju88s, best he did in pe2 was 6 destroyed on spawn, in ju88 15, so thats why you see this more on axis side then on vvs. 

ju88 

http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/en/sortie/4167066/?tour=46

pe2
http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/en/sortie/3350493/?tour=37

 

This is just because of loadout i guess. Pe-2 takes less than 50% of Ju-88 loadout.

You need 500 kg bomb for doing so and Pe-2 can take only 2...

 

Considering this, 6 is a very good result

On another hand, it climbs much faster and can defend itself much better

 

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1 hour ago, StaB/Tomio_VR*** said:

 

This is just because of loadout i guess. Pe-2 takes less than 50% of Ju-88 loadout.

You need 500 kg bomb for doing so and Pe-2 can take only 2...

 

Considering this, 6 is a very good result

On another hand, it climbs much faster and can defend itself much better

 

And also axis base is defended by airplanes like AI 109s that can catch any bomber or fighter up high, while allied bases are defended by slow fighters that cant even catch ju88 up high, so no wonder spawn bombers are mostly playing on axis side, better high alt bomber and better bombload and ai that cant catch you fast enought to be danger.

 

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yep but Pe-2 is very fast and uber strong.

German fighters has very weak engines also i think that Pe-2 has more than it's chance even with reduced bombload...

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13 hours ago, 77.CountZero said:

Its not realy dangerous to bomb spawn base, no one is defending spawn bases so you just need to come high and bomb it,

 

AI fighters get draged away or shoot down by spawn bombers guys escort.

 

 

If spawn base is objective in briefing , then you would have players expecting it to be bombed and defending it, but when you have airfields (that are not spawn airfields) as objectives on missions i see no reason then trolling to bomb humans on spawn points, and on top of that you dont have spawn points scatared all around base, its all at one place in 1 or 2 lines so you know when players sawn where they will always be on airbase.

 

 

Not a true statement from my experience: it always depends on conditons...

depending on the setting, AAA can hit you at 5K if you do not plan the approach propperly and when you fly alone (like I do) you have to deal with 3 ai fighters alone which even in the best cases depletes your gunner ammo (I shoot myself, flying lefthanded while shooting right handed)  so you are a defenseless target if any of the german fighters catch up. And without the noob-GPS mapsetting it also gets a ton more interesting to navigate and set up approaches. With GPS anyone can set up an approach to a base, with out it becomes way more challenging. If you do a more organized raid, you also dedicate more resources and I can not find that a bad thing, it makes the game more interesting..  I feel that in a realistic sim, bases need to come under attack.. but not under constant blockading, so from my perspective high alt raids are way better then drastically unequal numbered sides with the more numerous hanging around the bases in high alt fighters and waiting.. And I love seeing other players on the other side do attacks. But I do agree that actually more spawn locations would in any case be benefical, not only on the base, but also more bases to deter overly blockading gameplay styles a bit more.. if you have 5-10 bases to take off from, it is a whole different ballpark then those missions with 2 bases.

 

 

 

6 hours ago, StaB/Tomio_VR*** said:

You need 500 kg bomb for doing so and Pe-2 can take only 2...

 

Considering this, 6 is a very good result

 

You can do it with smaller bombs, but the error gets larger and it gets harder.. planes with larger bombs have generally a bonus for any ground target because of blast radius. The number has little to do with how good the drop was but with how many people where on spawn and did overlook the drop or deliberately did not despawn. If people are aware and despawn, you can´t get any.. regardless of the bombs or how many are on spawn... Here is a mission with 11 kills by 2x 500kg: http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/de/sortie/876219/?tour=13 as example

 

 

3 hours ago, StaB/Tomio_VR*** said:

yep but Pe-2 is very fast and uber strong.

 Pe-2 has more than it's chance even with reduced bombload...

 

have you tried it? I think that is not an accurate statement.. the Pe2 has in the damagemodel has been debuffed. Overall I would rate the Ju88 still as most efficient as bomber..

Edited by Monostripezebra

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and thats why they bomb from 7-8km not 5km

 

oh thats from 2016 so your the OG spawn bomber i see :)

 

2-3 spawn bases on map, spawn points that are always on same place and spawn airplanes in neat line, so its realy not that hard to camp over all abses and bomb players there, and its done constantly by axis side, as they can do it have better fighters and bombers for it and also have numbers advantage so its not hard to camp over all bases, and flak cant hit them up high.

 

Base should have more flaks but game is limited so you putt more stuff to defend ugenst trolls and you cant have them over real objectives, you have 10 spawn bases insted 2-3 you have less objectives and so on...  why each base have 4-5 flaks and not 15-20... its simple game is poor at how many stuff can be in mission for mission to work, so they optimise, and then this is abused

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4 hours ago, 77.CountZero said:

and thats why they bomb from 7-8km not 5km

 

oh thats from 2016 so your the OG spawn bomber i see :)

 

2-3 spawn bases on map, spawn points that are always on same place and spawn airplanes in neat line, so its realy not that hard to camp over all abses and bomb players there, and its done constantly by axis side, as they can do it have better fighters and bombers for it and also have numbers advantage so its not hard to camp over all bases, and flak cant hit them up high.

 

Base should have more flaks but game is limited so you putt more stuff to defend ugenst trolls and you cant have them over real objectives, you have 10 spawn bases insted 2-3 you have less objectives and so on...  why each base have 4-5 flaks and not 15-20... its simple game is poor at how many stuff can be in mission for mission to work, so they optimise, and then this is abused

 

It´s way older then 2016.. people (including me) have been doing it years before in Rise of Flight, where it is even more fun because you have to hand-calculate the wind effect and altitude effect on speed in planes like the Breguet.

Again.. my point is that bomber is not really able to "camp" over spawn points and just the relation of time needed (assuming no air starts) to take a very vulnerable He111 to 7K makes it a sporadic occurence at best (40+min compared to minutes over target) and the time you have to despawn is even longer. BTW bombing from that alt is only feasible if the server allows it, as the default weather info in the bombsight only goes to 5K, so as soon as you have halfway realistic wind values of 3+m/s it gets very imprecise. Off course you can also always use the megabombs that require less aim, but the time to lift them to alt makes it really effectless in terms of total gameplay mechanics. In the end,  alt bombers are a real non-issue gamebalance wise.. and if you switch of GPS and add a little wind or even limit the amount of XXL-bombs (which where rare in the real world) there is not many left who actually skillfully do it. But in the end if people want to navigate 40+ minutes in a vulnerable plane for just one attack, why not let them? I always enjoy seeing bombers at altitude and it makes the whole gameplay better for all (ie: targets that need to be stopped and actually move at different alt compared to a dynamic where all mission planes creep on the ground to avoid detection and it ends like: red side plays ground attack and blue side plays hartman style diving on low planes for individual kills and streaks instead of for objectives).

 

Everybody has their oppinons, but I don´t really see altitude bombing as anything that is an issue of gameplay mechanics. People play differently and it is a lot of fun and only ever hits people who by ignorance or deliberatly take the risk to be on an airfield under attack and do not despawn.

Edited by Monostripezebra

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The way I see it is that some bomber pilot has spent a long time getting to altitude and setting up a bomb run & calibrating the bombsight then if at the time his bombsight reaches the spawn point, if there is nobody spawned all he can do is drop the bomb anyway and *hope* someone spawns before it explodes.   If nobody is stupid enough to spawn during a bombing raid then that is one enemy player who has wasted a very long sortie for no reqason.    If I spawn and get killed then that is my fault but hardly a major issue and if I spawn during a bombing raid and lose a nice long kill streak then I have only myself to blame.  Even if three or four players get hit it is nothing that is going to lose the map.   

 

 I would be much more concerned by PE2s or JU88s or fighters coming in low and risking the AA only when they see full spawn points but even that is fine by me and historic as long as it is a single pass then run for home.  It is only fighters hanging around shooting each person that spawns that I feel is unhistoric but most servers have too much AA for that to be a problem any more.

Ask me again when Jason brings in persistent physical bomb craters 🙂  I do like the idea but it is going to need some careful thinking with regards to how long they last if we don't want every airfield becoming unusable 10 minutes into the map 😄

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1 hour ago, 56RAF_Roblex said:

Ask me again when Jason brings in persistent physical bomb craters

Great point, great point on the 'long - haul' bomber boys as well. :good:

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