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1 minute ago, blitze said:

Ingame voice comms would be nice though with easy channel arrangements and no access to same comms as opposite team.

 

The next major patch is supposed to bring the new "air marshal" functionality. How it will work is not certain but it may improve players co-ordination.

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2 hours ago, Ehret said:

 

The next major patch is supposed to bring the new "air marshal" functionality. How it will work is not certain but it may improve players co-ordination.

 

Nice, does anyone know what this actually is though?

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30 minutes ago, LongDongSilver said:

 

Nice, does anyone know what this actually is though?

 

When I can show you all about it I will. We have the early Alpha working, but not ready for Beta yet. It's a system to manage the battle, either Dogfight or a CO-OP. Completely optional for servers, but whatever side has a competent Air Marshal will have an advantage. Information coming into the Marshal can be used to coordinate routes, targets, escorts, create units (from players on the server) and assign a Squadron Commander to those units. And some other tools will be included like a tool for calculating distance and heading and ways to communicate strategy for your side. Marshals who master updating the map and using voice comms effectively will make MP a blast. Think of it as ATC and HQ rolled into one.

My goal was to stop having MP be a game of wandering around looking for the fight with no coordination (a common complaint). My past fun in MP was always within squad based scenarios. There will be built in limits to info and a certain fog of war so not all info is known to everyone. Each Marshal will see his side's activity unless certain conditions are met to see enemy elements. 

I wanted squad play to be more fun and also allow individuals to join and get some direction.  I also wanted there to be a new type of player - The Marshal. I expect some players to just want to do that and get good at it. 

 

So that is some basic info for you. We're hesitant to say or show much more because we need to make sure it works first. After seeing the pre-Alpha I am cautiously optimistic that it will work as we planned.

 

Jason

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I have a question.  I'm a regular multiplayer.  While I am in a squad, and on voice comms as often as I can be, I'd say about 20% of the time I enjoy freely patrolling and choosing my own objectives.  It's sort of my "zen" - so to speak.   If the Air Marshall is in effect on a server, and I want to be there but, (again, so to speak) run my own program, will I be still able to?  Or, is this going to be a mandatory compliance system when the server has the feature running?

Edited by =AVG77=Mobile_BBQ
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Good to hear Jason, thanks for the response!

 

30 minutes ago, =AVG77=Mobile_BBQ said:

I have a question.  I'm a regular multiplayer.  While I am in a squad, and on voice comms as often as I can be, I'd say about 20% of the time I enjoy freely patrolling and choosing my own objectives.  It's sort of my "zen" - so to speak.   If the Air Marshall is in effect on a server, and I want to be there but (again so to speak) run my own program, will I be still able to?  Or, is this going to be a mandatory compliance system when the server has the feature running?

 

I'm assuming it will be like the commander role from Battlefield 2, you don't have to follow the orders but you're more likely to win if you do

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29 minutes ago, =AVG77=Mobile_BBQ said:

I have a question.  I'm a regular multiplayer.  While I am in a squad, and on voice comms as often as I can be, I'd say about 20% of the time I enjoy freely patrolling and choosing my own objectives.  It's sort of my "zen" - so to speak.   If the Air Marshall is in effect on a server, and I want to be there but, (again, so to speak) run my own program, will I be still able to?  Or, is this going to be a mandatory compliance system when the server has the feature running?

 

You can ignore the Marshal just as real pilots could ignore their commander, but you could get booted or executed later. Up to the server hosts and other players to handle the punishment.

 

I'm sure some servers won't have Marshals. The market will decide. I personally think it will make MP more fun.

 

Jason

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15 minutes ago, Jason_Williams said:

 

You can ignore the Marshal just as real pilots could ignore their commander, but you could get booted or executed later. Up to the server hosts and other players to handle the punishment.

 

I'm sure some servers won't have Marshals. The market will decide. I personally think it will make MP more fun.

 

Jason

Sounds awesome! 

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Co-ordination is great but also nice to have some smaller groups hitting out the way targets in sneak attacks which one can do quite well on some current popular full real servers.  The opposition scrambles to keep the main attacks at bay and have their own strike objectives keeping them distracted.

Anyway - Air Marshal sounds quite interesting.  Good times.👍

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I'm sure it will add a new dynamic to the MP side of things, for sure.   The other 80% of the time I'm not free patrolling, I am all for pressing the objectives on the map.  I suppose I'll have to find a good server with AM and (hopefully) a good server without AM if I'm not feeling up to it that session. 

 

It's not that I only fly for my own gain, but I do have widely varying levels of physical energy to work with in a day.  Sometimes, I want to be on comms with my friends there and just have a kite up in the air, but on the same server, more than I can really handle full-on dogfights at the hot spots.  I know it's a bit off the mark to be that way with a combat flight sim but, I don't really feel all bad about it TBH.  

 

Anyway, I'm sure AM will be cool.  I hope we get some good strategists running the show.  I might cut down my free flight % in favor of pressing the objectives more. 

Edited by =AVG77=Mobile_BBQ

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While most of the stuff was covered here already, I'd like to add that COOP functionality is still lacking. Think of the features we had with Hyperlobby back in the '46 days. Shame to see this being barely used.

 

I for one am very much looking forward to the Marshal feature - FNBF could rise to a whole new level with this implemented. Big thumbs up.

 

 

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Gameplay

Single Player
AI always goes into a turn fight and always knows where you are. Thus one is never truly able to apply real world tactics.

Multiplayer
Players hardly notice other planes. Players notice a plane and the receiving pilot is oblivious. Result, easy kills with a dash of random outcome mixed in when players actually notice each other in time.  Thus real world tactics and real world flying plays more of a role.

 

Edited by Geronimo553
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25 minutes ago, Jason_Williams said:

I personally think it will make MP more fun. 

 

Damn, that sounds like a really good mechanic. Some of us usually stay semi organized over voice and what not, but it would really cater to everyone having a pack to run with, and orders to follow.

 

I sometimes see posts from campaign players who

are afraid to join a server, because last time they tried they got absolutely destroyed, alone, by packs of experienced enemies. We need these guys to have fun online. I mean, as long as I'm flying with 3 other Pe-2s and an escort on comms, an encounter isn't really that horrible, and I end up in a gunner for the return, or even survive because of wingmen. And let's be frank, a good formation can sometimes be reward enough.

 

I especially remember ending up being around 10 fighters taking off at the same time, some organized and some not, from an airbase in knights or wings and everyone ended up just flying together. Once the formation got up into the clouds one guy wrote, in caps,  what we were all thinking: "OH MY GOD THIS IS SO AWSOME".

 

Any mechanic that brings groups together and aids cooperation in all player segments is most welcome in my opinion.

 

PS: Are there any plans to bring voice comms into this? I think the possibility to communicate verbally within a group in server (and for leaders to communicate up the chain of command) is maybe the most impactful tool as far as cooperation goes within a server online.

 

Best, forever a coop online gamer,

Klas

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47 minutes ago, kissklas said:

 

PS: Are there any plans to bring voice comms into this? I think the possibility to communicate verbally within a group in server (and for leaders to communicate up the chain of command) is maybe the most impactful tool as far as cooperation goes within a server online.

 

 

No, not in the cards at the moment. We have no experience working with such technology. You have TS and Discord available to you which work well. I've got a long list of other priorities at the  moment, before I spend time and money on this idea.

 

Jason

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3 minutes ago, Jason_Williams said:

 

No, not in the cards at the moment. We have no experience working with such technology. You have TS and Discord available to you which work well. I've got a long list of other priorities at the  moment, before I spend time and money on this idea.

 

Jason

 

Very understandable. It's no small task, both when it comes to general developent and I guess the server side of things as well. Bandwidth and all. Can of worms I guess is the term😂

 

I am really looking forward to the mechanic though. It can change the online dynamics in a good way.

 

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9 hours ago, 77.CountZero said:

 

Its still same no mather what server you play, most players that play MP seams to like it like that or they would quit, and thouse ones play MP now and see all is ok, ones who dont like that way of play quit on MP or just show up on events and dont even bather wth df servers.

 

Even if you have some sqads they dont tend to fly how it was flown in ww2 as its not effective, why bomb in formations from high alt when you can be more effective bombing low alt in spred, or why fly fighters in tight formations of 4-8 when your more effective in 4 elements of 2 covering multi tgts and so on...Spend time to taxi and form up on runway just so some guy colides while trying to take off or some spawn bomber gets lucky and bombes all of you... why bather then txiin all just take off strait from spawn... 

 

For organaised stuff it takes time to set it up, and to see when it is ok for all interested, and then you need to advartaise it, and most SP guys dont even bather with forums, so i guess they even dont know that some would like to play online the way its more like SP but with other humans (aka coop). But why would SP guy bather with that and spend more time on it when he can enjoy it on its own terms offline.

 

And with all visibility problems in game you realy need to be persistant to not quit on MP in few weeks

 

 

Before you knock the play experience we provide, you should try it. The fact that I'm well aware the effect afterwards is like handing out crack to addicts is a feature and not a bug. 

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2 hours ago, Jason_Williams said:

 

You can ignore the Marshal just as real pilots could ignore their commander, but you could get booted or executed later. Up to the server hosts and other players to handle the punishment.

 

I'm sure some servers won't have Marshals. The market will decide. I personally think it will make MP more fun.

 

Jason

This...
IS GOLD.

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I enjoyed MP for short while a couple of years ago when there was a server with a recon element.  As the mission began, all the enemy ground targets were hidden and it was up to the players to cross the lines and explore to find them and light them up for other players.  It was rewarding and fun.  The end of a mission was something to look forward to, as it meant a whole new map to explore.  

 

They got got rid of that after a few months.  Presumably there were complaints from the more arcade and dogfight minded players.  

 

 

 

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43 minutes ago, Feathered_IV said:

They got got rid of that after a few months.  Presumably there were complaints from the more arcade and dogfight minded players.  

 

 

Or because everyone figured out where the targets were after the mission ran a few times and recon became pointless.

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No robin.  There was a randomiser that the server admins used for generation of targets from one mission to the next.  

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2 hours ago, -[HRAF]BubiHUN said:

This...
IS GOLD.

Did...Did Jason just delegate authority to Bubi to enact capital punishment on rogue players on KOTA?

I'm...surprisingly OK with this. 

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I think that Marshal mode shouldn't be expected to immediately boost MP numbers. Culture doesn't work that way. It should be expected to create a new environment, and the organization will need to slowly assemble.

 

But without infrastructure, trying to create a culture is impossible.

Good vision.

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1 hour ago, Feathered_IV said:

No robin.  There was a randomiser that the server admins used for generation of targets from one mission to the next.  

 

So the randomizer just put targets in random spots on the map?  In that case the fact that the missions probably sucked is why it was discontinued.

Or it selected random targets in preset positions?  Then people would still know where the targets were.  Bomber pilots could just do their own recon while they're bombing.

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6 minutes ago, Feathered_IV said:

Haven’t got time for a pissing match right now robin.  Sorry.  

 

You certainly found the time to try and start one. 

 

I'm just trying to explain why recon doesn't work very well for enabling bombing targets.  Because everyone figures out where the targets are pretty quickly.  It works much better for giving people access to better aircraft or weapons.

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Regarding in-game voice comms: Careful what you wish for. You might soon find WWI flying appeals by virtue of getting to be alone with the sound of engine and the wind 😁

 

Regarding being like “teh rEaL wAr1!!!”-If you set an unobtainable goal you will always be disappointed in results. It will never be the same because you will always be a guy sitting in your computer room in comfort and safety. Anyway real war is not notable for being entertaining. And probably no one wants to sit flying escort for 8 hours. Etc. What you do have however is the opportunity to play the best form of high-speed chess ever devised by man with plausible physics and mostly believable FMs. And that’s quite a lot.

 

Regarding MP coordination: The chief impediment in most servers is the insistence on it also being a navigation simulator. Which is to say that most pilots are mostly lost most of the time, even those of us who actually learned dead-reckoning in our vanished youth. I would suggest leaving the “GPS” on and perhaps even adding some friendly position markers if you want more mutual aid. This is not realistic, but neither is flying in your house-slippers with a pint within easy reach 🍺 

Regarding more centralized command and control: “Aristotle said that some people were only fit to be slaves. I do not contradict him. But I reject slavery because I see no men fit to be masters.”-C.S. Lewis.

 

Edited by Rattlesnake
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52 minutes ago, Feathered_IV said:

Haven’t got time for a pissing match right now robin.  Sorry.  

🙄

 

You literally came in here and basically took a jab at the online community. Funny most of the servers up now are all no GPS and full realism with very nice mission designs. Wings of liberty isn't the only server that has people in it on a regular basis.

 

I don't get the need for singleplayer only or multiplayer only people to diss each other. It's so strange.

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51 minutes ago, JonRedcorn said:

 

 

 

I don't get the need for singleplayer only or multiplayer only people to diss each other. It's so strange.

—SP loves aviation, reads about it incessantly.

—Discovers this amazing game, practices incessantly offline.

—Goes MP. Gets trounced, and it’s not really his fault.  Because the AI are such that the poor bastard *has never ever seen a really hard turn* before he saw a human player do it. The rest of the story is human nature, and understandable.

—AIs who can maneuver the planes like a merely decent human player would go a long way to easing people’s transition into MP. And personally, I long for extended target practice at drones who can throw me angles more like humans use. However, I’m guessing an AI who can put up a decent dogfight is much more technically difficult than coming up with one who can play a decent game of chess, so there may be nothing can be done.

 

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Don't know about how everyone else feels, but don't like the chat system in this incarnation of Il-2.  Too much of it, and to many distracted by it, they're there to chat, not fly.  I'd love for the option for a server to shut that garbage off, or disconnect it from the mechanical tips so the individual can.  That sort of stuff can be intimidating to new blood, death by publicly flashing news of their humiliating demise for all to snicker. 

 

Push toward co-op and extended tactical strategy is good news, Bodenplatte has great potential for success with it.  Who really wants to endlessly fly into flak traps and infested sky for nothing?  Without any team or an objective it gets to be painfully annoying after a while, and you move on.

 

Old Il-2's strong suit was a huge variety of usable objects with an open easy mission builder, and easy access, slowly moving the right direction.  Think your tank move will prove to be brilliant in the end big J.

 

 

 

 

 

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 I rarely play MP for 2 main reasons:

Time, both having it, and having it at the same time as other online players

Ping, being in Australia our ping for some of the more popular servers is like 340.... which wasn't as noticeable in the old il2 1946, but very noticeable in this il2 series.

I don't play SP campaign because at the moment I don't find it interesting (again atm)

For me shooting down an AI is just not as satisfying as shooting down a human player, and atm I'm a Jager not a ground pounder (though I did enjoy flying the Ju 88 like it was an A6 Intruder in il2 1946, coming in low with long time delay on the bombs :fly: ).

 

Edited by novicebutdeadly

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2 hours ago, JonRedcorn said:

🙄

 

You literally came in here and basically took a jab at the online community. Funny most of the servers up now are all no GPS and full realism with very nice mission designs. Wings of liberty isn't the only server that has people in it on a regular basis.

 

I don't get the need for singleplayer only or multiplayer only people to diss each other. It's so strange.

 

Thanks for that.  

The complaint at the time came from people who were upset because action was happening all over the map and not being funneled into confined areas for the instant action that they wanted.   Another group complained that they were getting lost and wanted targets closer to the front.  

 

Whatever the reason and despite the complaints, it was fun and rewarding to load up a bomber or jabo and go hunting for targets deep behind the lines.  Sometimes you would find a supply area.  Other times it might be a large industrial complex.  The urge to keep exploring was very great and even after expending all your bombs you’d stay out there just to see what else turned up.  It was common to come back with fuel tanks almost empty.  Sometimes you’d be running for home at very low level and suddenly find yourself charging straight through the middle of a highly defended area that wasn’t marked on your map.  Pandemonium.  It was like charging through somebody’s wedding. :)

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8 hours ago, ACG_Kai_Lae said:

 

 

Before you knock the play experience we provide, you should try it. The fact that I'm well aware the effect afterwards is like handing out crack to addicts is a feature and not a bug. 

I played acg events in clod when it was free event and i know you guys provide best posible expiriance for users searching for historical behavior in online gameplay, i dont think i putt you guys in DF server basket, i said only events can provide what you have in SP in online enviroment. You guys have mission once a week so thats not df server for me thats event, and only way to have some organised and historical looking behavior in online.

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2 hours ago, Rattlesnake said:

AIs who can maneuver the planes like a merely decent human player would go a long way to easing people’s transition into MP.

 

I'm not so sure.  If they are staying out of MP because real pilots are too skilled then they won't want the AI kicking their butts. They will just turn it down to 'Slight challenge but guaranteed kill' mode and stay in SP forever.   It can't hurt to have the option for those that want to progress but  if they do genuinely want to progress they can just do what every other MP player did and jump in and die a lot until they get better. All it costs is a little ego as they make that transition from 'I think I am an ace' to 'I am actually crap but I will learn' 🙂

Edited by 56RAF_Roblex
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If you are getting butt kicked, you must remember that many have been doing MP for YEARS, some going back 20 plus years. Learn from your experience in MP.

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1 hour ago, 56RAF_Roblex said:

 

I'm not so sure.  If they are staying out of MP because real pilots are too skilled then they won't want the AI kicking their butts. They will just turn it down to 'Slight challenge but guaranteed kill' mode and stay in SP forever.   It can't hurt to have the option for those that want to progress but  if they do genuinely want to progress they can just do what every other MP player did and jump in and die a lot until they get better. All it costs is a little ego as they make that transition from 'I think I am an ace' to 'I am actually crap but I will learn' 🙂

It's not really human nature to give a damn about being killed repeatedly by an AI offline you set up specifically to polish a skill. It's just an exercise. The same can't be said for online play. That may not be particularly logical but that's people.

Your options in MP are basically either servers where you may fly 45 minutes without seeing a bandit, or shark-tank free-for-alls like Berloga. Not good if your aim is to isolate and work on basic stuff, like just target practice against an actually hard-breaking bandit or learning how to go vertical and set up snapshots against a much better turning bandit, that sort of thing. The just jump into MP thing is a bit like the idea of learning to fight by walking into a dive and saying "I can whoop every man in this place". I can guarantee there are a fair number of people who would prefer to get a lot of practice against an AI plane moving *realistically* before taking on their first human. And trying to get fellow humans to spend their spare play time doing specific work with you these things is another can of worms. Realistically a lot of people playing a game on their computer aren't doing it because they want to meet and chat with new people, if you catch my drift.

Now I've seen AI in other games that were more formidable than the "Ace" setting in BoX/FC, especially as turn fighters.  BUT, I expect in those games the AI were using a simplified FM for those AI, whereas if I understand correctly the AI in BoX/FC are flying the full FM. So I don't want to sound like I'm running the game down, because the technical problems are no doubt huge and they have a lot to do. I'm just saying that currently the drones are a bit meh, even just for target practice. The two things I notice them doing worse than virtually any human player are 1. turns, they just don't haul back on the pole like a real player will, which kind of deprives one of systematic target practice against realistically maneuvering bandits, and 2. they don't go vertical and hang like human players do, which means you don't really know if you're getting a correct feel for when you can out-zoom/rope a given plane while flying another given plane in a given situation. I hope this makes sense. Again I'm not bitter at all about the situation because I imagine the programming difficulties here are large, I'm just saying it would be nice if Mr. A.I. Ace could someday be made to maneuver the plane better.

Edited by Rattlesnake

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7 hours ago, RedKestrel said:

Did...Did Jason just delegate authority to Bubi to enact capital punishment on rogue players on KOTA?

I'm...surprisingly OK with this. 

😄
Frankly, I wanted to quote the bigger comment, but it was late last and I was really tired.

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i expect Bodenplatte map and late western front planes to boost MP attendance more than anything else...

 

For that however, the Bodenplatte map must be perfectly optimized unlike the new Prokorovkha map which is just not pleasant to fly over (too low fps especially in VR even after lowering graphics)

Edited by StaB/Tomio_VR***

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Reading the pro-MP posters here clearly shows MP is about kicking butts being crap-hot e-pilot.

As a singleplayer dude I'm more mission oriented and really don't care if I down another player or AI as long as my flight completes the mission assigned.

Such missions is only to be found in coop-MP and that is not available in BoX in practise from what I've seen/read.

 

What you all describe above it what goes under the term "AirQuake".

 

Coop is dependent on the private team's mission builder guy (one or two usually) and with only a select few able to handle the mission editor that era died fast with BoX.

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