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Axurit

Multiplayer attendance

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Hello everyone.

I recently read on the forum, information, may be false, that only 5% of IL2 BOX players attend the multiplayer game.

I ask myself 2 questions:

1 Is this true?

2 If true, why is not multiplayer more popular with players?

 

That's all

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Probably because most players don’t want to deal with non historical missions where the front line airbase is only 10 clicks from the front line, where most of the aircraft are fighters out for blood rather than strike aircraft and bombers, where there is little cooperation between individual players. Also it is much harder to survive a dog fight against a good human pilot than an AI pilot. 

 

On the the other hand, if you can get past the above, and develop a good cadre of likeminded friends, then multiplayer is what makes the sim really come alive. 

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I've been with BoX from the beginning (as you can see from my badges) and have only tried online three times I believe. I tend to think I'm a pretty good virtual pilot, but each time I've tried online I've been shot down almost immediately after encountering an enemy. In short, I'm just scared to try again and am enjoying the scripted campaigns that are available here.

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Axurit said:

1 Is this true?

It‘s plausible.

 

17 minutes ago, Axurit said:

2 If true, why is not multiplayer more popular with players?

You will think differently of your flying and fighting abilities after going online. Also, not joining a squad or not going on TS/Discord will make things even harder for you.

 

 

1 minute ago, engrish_major said:

I tend to think I'm a pretty good virtual pilot, but each time I've tried online I've been shot down almost immediately after encountering an enemy.

 

1 minute ago, ZachariasX said:

You will think differently of your flying and fighting abilities after going online.

 

Told ya.

Edited by ZachariasX

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Not sure about actual numbers, myself I like to stick to Sp and Coops, because its more relaxed and fun.  I´d rather have a entertaining mission than a historical one tbh.

PvP always feels to me like fighting a mountain of odds and I get frustrated with it.

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Spotting and ID'ing limitations within the game (especially VR) keep me out of multiplayer for the most part. I bought the game for its SP experience but the sub-optimal AI pushes me into MP every once in a while just to meet a more complex adversary. . . . . I die shortly thereafter.

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27 minutes ago, Venturi said:

Probably because most players don’t want to deal with non historical missions where the front line airbase is only 10 clicks from the front line, where most of the aircraft are fighters out for blood rather than strike aircraft and bombers, where there is little cooperation between individual players. Also it is much harder to survive a dog fight against a good human pilot than an AI pilot. 

 

On the the other hand, if you can get past the above, and develop a good cadre of likeminded friends, then multiplayer is what makes the sim really come alive. 

 

You can have all of that if you participate in organised events. 

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Because it turns an enjoyable and relaxing game into another online club fest.

 

I'm not interested in flying around for half an hour looking for somebody only to get trounced by a try-hard with a VR headset.

 

Not my idea of a good time. The dynamic campaigns and single player missions are far more enjoyable.

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1 hour ago, engrish_major said:

I've been with BoX from the beginning (as you can see from my badges) and have only tried online three times I believe. I tend to think I'm a pretty good virtual pilot, but each time I've tried online I've been shot down almost immediately after encountering an enemy. In short, I'm just scared to try again and am enjoying the scripted campaigns that are available here.

I'm sure you are a pretty good virtual pilot in most respects. In dogfighting a great amount of the skills and practices that make you a good pilot in other regimes are either irrelevant or turned on their heads.

Well, now you know why online dogfighting is the only dogfighting. The BoX AI, you can test them by taking up the worst turning fighter in a given set against the best turning. I haven't tested every possible combination, but even with the AI set on "ace" you'll more than likely be able to keep up  with the best level turning plane using the worst turning one you can pick. So a fight with the AI isn't really anything like a dogfight because the airplane's maximum performance in even simple turns isn't being exploited.

Don't be intimidated by the learning curve. It's steep but not usually all that tall, if you catch my drift. A few months of fighting online with a good idea of what you're trying to do in mind and you should be as good as most. Now there's lots of good instructional videos and such out there, but to my mind the linked book is still as good as it gets in rationally organizing and explaining the maneuvers and more importantly what you're trying to accomplish with them in different situations. It helps to understand why you're doing something and how it works in terms of aerodynamics along with your yanking and banking practice.
Fighter Combat
 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Axurit said:

 

Hello everyone.

I recently read on the forum, information, may be false, that only 5% of IL2 BOX players attend the multiplayer game.

I ask myself 2 questions:

1 Is this true?

2 If true, why is not multiplayer more popular with players?

 

That's all

1. ~30000 players played atleast once on WoL are they in MP or SP % :) who knows how dev calculate % for SP and MP, i play SP sometimes but MP mostly am i in SP part or MP part of devs % numbers, who knows , they said many times its 5% MP, i belive its more but not by mutch maybe 15-20% max.

 

2. nothing in MP is historical behavior so that not atracts many users, also in MP nothing revolves about you its team work so some users dont like that, and it takes some time to understand how its played as its totaly differant from SP so some users dont have patiance... but i belive historical aspect is by far what dosent atrcat SP users.

 

Edited by 77.CountZero

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Single player its fun, but getting 5 or 6 kills every sortie kind of ruins it for me.

AI has been getting better thought.

Multiplayer Berloga is best place to practice, you die a lot, but you kill a lot and learn a lot.

 

Then TAW and FBNF are great fun specially in a squad.

 

I believe 5% is accurate if not less.

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If you don't like getting your ass whooped, try flying bomber or JABO. You still end up getting your ass whooped occasionally, but not as much, and you feel rewarded.

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9 minutes ago, II./JG77_motoadve said:

Then TAW and FBNF are great fun specially in a squad.

:friends:

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27 minutes ago, 77.CountZero said:

2. nothing in MP is historical behavior so that not atracts many users, also in MP nothing revolves about you its team work so some users dont like that, and it takes some time to understand how its played as its totaly differant from SP so some users dont have patiance... but i belive historical aspect is by far what dosent atrcat SP users.

 

Pretty much that plus time constraint. I guess many fathers share my problem that you don't have much time for gaming anymore and the time you actually have is not necessarily exclusive so that the ability to pause or quit without letting your friends down is very important.

 

this time constraint is the same reason I never tried falcon 4.0 despite it's SP focus :)

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I would really like to go MP more one day, I loved MP in ROF.    

 

But:

 

1.   I have little time due to a busy RL.  Therefore usually out of practice.  SP is easy  

 

2.  I hate flying around using my whole monthly game time (two hours) looking for a pixel dot.   I hate up close icons almost as much.  Modified icons anyone?

 

3.  I can’t do teamspeak because of RL circumstances.   One little fat kid vs everybody on the playground...

 

Still, one day I hope to find more time and come on.  Modified icons alone would tip my scales.   (I mean help spotting at distance and nothing else at all.  No little “go here” arrows especially.)

 

Interesting thread.  

 

Ceowulf<><   

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I used to be an avid online flight simmer in the Hyperlobby days of the 2000s. Sadly I don't fly BoX online because I'm not in my 20s anymore, am married, and have a baby on the way so my simming time is limited. Usually I only have time for a quick mission to just fly around or setup a quick dogfight or ground attack. But I'd really LOVE to get back online, but my time is limited. Getting old sucks. But I'll still support this sim fully and buy everything to show my support! :)

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I see a couple of people have mentioned Spot-the-Dot/Legally Blind Pilots as a problem online. May I suggest learning to love WWI? The wingspans of the planes are only about a quarter less than that of WWII planes, and they are moving much slower and fighting at closer ranges. You have time to crank zoom to max and take a gander at that dot you just spotted long before you come into guns range. And the most common Entente and Central planes tend to have very different silhouettes.

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The MP is still underdeveloped so no wonder it's not more popular. How long it took to get a basic thing - a proper chat widget? There is no lobby screen. Network bugs are running amok and seem to be immortal... Scoring and logging algos are bogus, too.

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SP here too. Would rather play historically generated dynamic campaigns on my time and be able to leave when i need to and play when I feel like it. No letting anybody down, no gladiatorial brawls, or people with short tempers (I play Mech Warrior Online for that). My time, my campaign, my world. :)

 

I appreciate that some of you like the multiplayer aspect, but it just isn't for me.

 

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28 minutes ago, Ehret said:

The MP is still underdeveloped so no wonder it's not more popular. How long it took to get a basic thing - a proper chat widget? There is no lobby screen. Network bugs are running amok and seem to be immortal... Scoring and logging algos are bogus, too.

Somebody truly has pissed in your cheerios. It must be tiring being so negative and angry all the time. Maybe try meditation. 👍

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Posted (edited)

Pretty much what Kestrel79 said, flew the original il2 then fb/pf/46 for years on hyperlobby ( i still remember fondly the 'Greatergreen' server on hl) but i was younger, single and with plenty of time to be involved in a squad. Now i mostly play offline due to how convenient it can be to get flying quickly and stop whenever you want and a lack of time. 

 

What i enjoy the most is to have as much historical immersion as possible. Flying in missions with a specific flight plan and objectives in the context of the war effort and ongoing operations on the ground. That also implies missions with more emphasis on the bombers objectives, collective discipline and teamwork to avoid losses. To do that online i must be part of a squad.

 

Free hunt is more about mastering your plane's limits in order to become more competitive in fighter matchups. The emphasis is more on the individual score/performance but it can be very fun indeed, did mostly that in the past. Though if you fly alone, chances are you will be flying against virtual squad(s) on radio comms quite often, so it is not beginner friendly.

 

 

 

 

   

 

 

 

 

Edited by Fennec

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Even if you're in a squad and fly together (hard enough to setup with limited free time), pretty good chance that 90% of the other people on the server are lone wolfing around. So you fly around with 4 or so guys to kill off the random single knights of the sky or suicidal level bomber pilots at tree top. Just not much fun and that's what killed my interest in MP years ago. Maybe it's different today, but when i look at the MP videos in the video section, that still seems to be the case and people seem to enjoy exactly that, so maybe it's just a personal matter of taste.

 

Coops would be more interesting for me, but there just seems to be a severe lack of interest in coops (i don't regularly check the server list, but every time i did check it, those servers were completely empty).

 

But i might give MP a chance again in the coming weeks to see if things have changed.

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13 hours ago, Axurit said:

 

Hello everyone.

I recently read on the forum, information, may be false, that only 5% of IL2 BOX players attend the multiplayer game. 

 

In a live interview in November 2017, the Producer said it was 10% who fly online.  Not 5%.

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1 hour ago, Matt said:

Even if you're in a squad and fly together (hard enough to setup with limited free time), pretty good chance that 90% of the other people on the server are lone wolfing around. So you fly around with 4 or so guys to kill off the random single knights of the sky or suicidal level bomber pilots at tree top. Just not much fun and that's what killed my interest in MP years ago. Maybe it's different today, but when i look at the MP videos in the video section, that still seems to be the case and people seem to enjoy exactly that, so maybe it's just a personal matter of taste.

 

Coops would be more interesting for me, but there just seems to be a severe lack of interest in coops (i don't regularly check the server list, but every time i did check it, those servers were completely empty).

 

But i might give MP a chance again in the coming weeks to see if things have changed.

 

Matt check out ACG's server they fly Sunday nights from 7pm uk time, depending on when your squad is tasked to fly its missions. 

 

Kind of gives a co-op feel, you'll fly with a squad which will have a pre designated assignment. You'll fly one or two sorties, and that's it until the next week. I think it gives an immersive unique experience

 

https://www.aircombatgroup.co.uk/index.php
 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Matt said:

Even if you're in a squad and fly together (hard enough to setup with limited free time), pretty good chance that 90% of the other people on the server are lone wolfing around. So you fly around with 4 or so guys to kill off the random single knights of the sky or suicidal level bomber pilots at tree top. Just not much fun and that's what killed my interest in MP years ago. Maybe it's different today, but when i look at the MP videos in the video section, that still seems to be the case and people seem to enjoy exactly that, so maybe it's just a personal matter of taste.

 

Coops would be more interesting for me, but there just seems to be a severe lack of interest in coops (i don't regularly check the server list, but every time i did check it, those servers were completely empty).

 

But i might give MP a chance again in the coming weeks to see if things have changed.

 

Its still same no mather what server you play, most players that play MP seams to like it like that or they would quit, and thouse ones play MP now and see all is ok, ones who dont like that way of play quit on MP or just show up on events and dont even bather wth df servers.

 

Even if you have some sqads they dont tend to fly how it was flown in ww2 as its not effective, why bomb in formations from high alt when you can be more effective bombing low alt in spred, or why fly fighters in tight formations of 4-8 when your more effective in 4 elements of 2 covering multi tgts and so on...Spend time to taxi and form up on runway just so some guy colides while trying to take off or some spawn bomber gets lucky and bombes all of you... why bather then txiin all just take off strait from spawn... 

 

For organaised stuff it takes time to set it up, and to see when it is ok for all interested, and then you need to advartaise it, and most SP guys dont even bather with forums, so i guess they even dont know that some would like to play online the way its more like SP but with other humans (aka coop). But why would SP guy bather with that and spend more time on it when he can enjoy it on its own terms offline.

 

And with all visibility problems in game you realy need to be persistant to not quit on MP in few weeks

Edited by 77.CountZero

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All about the SP for me. I want it informal and fun.

 

Looking forward to the enhanced QMB that just might maybe perhaps possibly come in an update one day. :popcorm:

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I think 5% might be accurate if they compare the MP users vs all the people who ever bought one of the products (total users), however if you make the comparison as the active players within a couple months I think the MP proportion is significantly higher.

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Posted (edited)

This series suffers from not enough content for the price to draw a good MP crowd.

 

The way it is marketed piecemeal fractures the MP community as well.

 

If they would release, FOR ONLINE ONLY,  all maps with at least one plane per side per map free (with the purchase of one module), or some variation of that, we would have tons people more online and they'd get more sales/income overall.

 

I am afraid this will never be much of an online sim unless something is changed to unify access to basic content across all theaters for all who make a minimum purchase.  It may already be too late...

Edited by Drawbar
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18 minutes ago, Drawbar said:

If they would release, FOR ONLINE ONLY,  all maps with at least one plane per side per map free (with the purchase of one module), or some variation of that, we would have tons people more online and they'd get more sales/income overall.

You can buy one single module (even the most discounted one) and participate online in all maps.There you go. if you get BoS with 60% off, that‘s a good deal.

 

I think it is a good idea that we don‘t have free access to multiplayer, as this would attract griefers. 

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With all due respect to the opinion of others, with all the known spotting limitations and bugs of the game, nothing compares to me as fighting a human pilot. Everyone has their style and their strengths, and it's good, after being shot down countless times, seeing that you progress as a virtual pilot and begin to reverse the numbers, shooting down enemies as many times as you are shoot down. AI, even at the "ace" level is not a challenge (at least not now). For people who are busy with parental duties (I had been in that myself, but my children are now grown up, so I have time to fly again 😁) I recommend the Berloga server. You can try MP and be able to leave the server whenever you want without let down any squad member, as you fly alone. It is close to a quick mission but against human opponents.

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, ZachariasX said:

You can buy one single module (even the most discounted one) and participate online in all maps.There you go. if you get BoS with 60% off, that‘s a good deal.

 

I think it is a good idea that we don‘t have free access to multiplayer, as this would attract griefers. 

 

I was thinking more from historical simulation standpoint I guess.

 

If you don't get a couple planes per map you can't set up historically accurate scenarios on a server that will keep people online as the maps rotate. Can't fly Yak 1's against 109 K-4's for example.

 

If you are going for a giant arcade all planes available dogfight mess kinda thing then I'm with you. Those can be fun.

Edited by Drawbar

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Just now, Drawbar said:

Can't fly Yak 1's against 109 K-14's for example.

On Berloga, that most often works surprisingly well, so this

1 minute ago, Drawbar said:

If you are just going for a giant arcade all planes available dogfight mess kinda thing then I'm with you.

should be enough to give everyone a taste. At least, what you get from BoS will let you join all servers. BP will be a different matter though.

 

But at some point, you will have to buy content if you want variety.

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Posted (edited)

Quite apart from the style of play, two aspects that reduce the attraction of MP (for some) are timezones and lag. A game with SP can be played anywhere in the world at whatever time you choose,  but the times when the servers are populated may be extremely inconvenient, depending on where you live. Meanwhile my server list looks like this:

 

Spoiler

tomato-cherry-red-2fyellow-500x500.png.176d0ed6de4889e263ec2ce39717c45c.png

 

Edited by unreasonable
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32 minutes ago, Drawbar said:

 

I was thinking more from historical simulation standpoint I guess.

 

If you don't get a couple planes per map you can't set up historically accurate scenarios on a server that will keep people online as the maps rotate. Can't fly Yak 1's against 109 K-14's for example.

 

If you are going for a giant arcade all planes available dogfight mess kinda thing then I'm with you.

 

I think most servers I play on at least some of BoS planes are welcome on servers which host Moscow or Kuban maps. That's unlikely to be the case though once the BoBP map enters the mix.

as for yak 1 vs 109 K4, that's not  a match up you will be likely to see on most servers.

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1 minute ago, =11=Herne said:

as for yak 1 vs 109 K4, that's not  a match up you will be likely to see on most servers. 

 

Point being when a server rotates to a map/scenario you don't have a plane for you gotta leave.

 

This is what is hurting BoX MP.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Drawbar said:

 

Point being when a server rotates to a map/scenario you don't have a plane for you gotta leave.

 

This is what is hurting BoX MP.

 

I don't see it that way, there are plenty of servers to choose from.

 

EDIT: for the eastern front scenarios BoS planes at least some of them are welcome on all three maps for both sides.

Edited by =11=Herne

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IMO rampart bugs and lag artifacts are the worst. The latter can not be eliminated fully but they shouldn't affect stuff which is computed locally yet they do - micro stutters induced by lag are common.

Why about a better more verbal server browser? How often do you joined a match only to realize it's going to end in few minutes?

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2 minutes ago, Ehret said:

Why about a better more verbal server browser? How often do you joined a match only to realize it's going to end in few minutes?

 

That would be very welcome.

 

I've not noticed micro stutters for a long while, that's not me saying that they are not there, just that I have not noticed them, Playing in VR I have some gfx details turned down. I tend to use balanced, instead of high / medium for example.

 

When I experience lag related problems it tends to cause other contacts to warp, instead of the client stuttering.

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Few patches ago micro-stutters decreased significantly. It'd be great to get rid of them completely.

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Those complaining about air quake, there are some servers online that set up decent ground objectives and also do not place spawn airbases right on the front line.  Actually they are a bit behind which deters vulching and other silly behavior.  They also provide scattered cloud cover for bombers to hide in when traversing.

 

Ingame voice comms would be nice though with easy channel arrangements and no access to same comms as opposite team.

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