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Whooeee a note on the late war planes

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I have to admit Im a little jelly.  Noone really was on Wings of Liberty... So I just played combat box.  Ive been studiously avoiding playing against late war planes where possible... Considering the best Ive got is a Yak7B..  So I got ripped up.

But I gotta say WOW. The P47 is GORGEOUS. And someone buzzed me (viz id almost shot me down) in a spit IX holy cow it was beautiful.  The Dora and 109K were beautiues too but I only got fleeting glimpses of them.

But wow talk about feeling ineffectual lol - those 109Ks, 190Ds, and the Spits and P47s.... You really really feel that 100 km/h speed difference trying to fight them. The models are beautiful though again wow!

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Posted (edited)

You have 109g4 and 190a5 you can easy fight vs spit9 and p47d with that, on red your best option is to get la5fn when no one still didnt gift you bobp 

So fly axis on late missions until you get bobp, and your not at any disavantage.

Edited by 77.CountZero

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Posted (edited)

I gotta say, another holy cow and a WOW. Is this another one of Sublime’s appeals for sponsorship, amirite? 

 

Something something give a man an inch and he’ll take a...? 

 

Regards 

Edited by Bilbo_Baggins
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4 hours ago, 77.CountZero said:

You have 109g4 and 190a5 you can easy fight vs spit9 and p47d with that, on red your best option is to get la5fn when no one still didnt gift you bobp 

So fly axis on late missions until you get bobp, and your not at any disavantage.

No i dont want anyone to gift bobp thats too much.  I dont really mind Im actually fairly excited about how BP works.

So youre saying the G4 is actually a worthwhile contender versus Spits and P47s? Im surprised - I didnt even bother trying the G4 seeing as how 109Ks, Doras, G6s and G16s or whatever were around.

What are you saying BnZ right with the way the p47 flies?

4 hours ago, Bilbo_Baggins said:

I gotta say, another WOW. Is this another one of Sublime’s appeals for sponsorship, amirite? 

 

Something something give a man an inch and he’ll take a...? 

 

Regards 

Dude really? I dont want any sponsorship. I hadnt seen any of the late war birds. They look fantastic.  Stop looking for some nefarious thing in someone. Ive already been blessed really well and dont want anything more from anyone here

I actually really just was impressed and wanted to talk about the planes, about the server maybe, and as Count did brinf up whether youre hamstrung and how bad in late war.   I mentioned all three of those.  Ive thanked the ppl who helped me profusely and Ive also said I planned on paying it forward.  Do me a favor and put me on ignore though - putting words in my.mouth (sponsorship? Really) and assuming Im just some leech dirtbag is really nice though.  Thanks Bilbo.

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Sublime, unless the P47 is above 20,000ft. it is an utter dog.  If you are in a G4 and see a Jug at low level you can easily best it.

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@count How do you spot? Ive gotten a lot better at it but its a major problem when I flight high or I fly BnZ I can never keep track of the enemy

2 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

Sublime, unless the P47 is above 20,000ft. it is an utter dog.  If you are in a G4 and see a Jug at low level you can easily best it.

Thank you.  See all I read is it could turn unrealistically on flaps. Noone was flyong that high.  4km. Was the highest I saw anyone st. Thats good to know.  The Spitfire IXs are dangerous too but hey still one down.  For BnZ how do yoy spot? Ive fiddled with some with my graphics and mostly its practice but I cannot pull off BnZ like this rn

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I've been playing on Combat Box without BoBP, on allied side no less, and its still fun. I tend to run fighter- bomber missions with the P-39 or Yak-7, attacking AA and soft targets. If I get intercepted I drop my bombs, go defensive and try to put a reversal on my attackers. I took out a couple of late 109s in the P-39 and Yak-7B last night, so even though you're outclassed on the allied side. If you can get a late 109 into a knife fight with you in a Yak-7 it doesnt seem to matter much if its a G14 or a G4. At the very least you can occupy the enemy for long enough for help to arrive, which happened to me more than a few times last night. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Sublime said:

...

So youre saying the G4 is actually a worthwhile contender versus Spits and P47s? Im surprised - I didnt even bother trying the G4 seeing as how 109Ks, Doras, G6s and G16s or whatever were around.

What are you saying BnZ right with the way the p47 flies?...

 

On your combat speed in G4 your as fast as P-47 on combat speed, and he can use it only 15 min, and you dive as fast as him, climb better (if he dosent use magic flaps) turn better and roll better, but 190 is more effective if you wont to Bnz, thouse later variants you get in bobp for axis are all overkill for what red side has now, you can fight them with bos fighters if you have them on mission, but when you have g4 take that. 

 

also for spoting i found its easyer to spot contacts that are below you then abow you, just yesterday i was on 6-7km altitude in lagg3 and i could see guys on 1-2km below me and i could not spot 109 at 9km altitude as i saw him only when he was 1km from me and already diving on me, so for bnz its not so bad as if your highest you have advantage of seaing better guys below you, i guess blured ground and gamma has something with it.

Edited by 77.CountZero

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1 hour ago, RedKestrel said:

I've been playing on Combat Box without BoBP, on allied side no less, and its still fun. I tend to run fighter- bomber missions with the P-39 or Yak-7, attacking AA and soft targets. If I get intercepted I drop my bombs, go defensive and try to put a reversal on my attackers. I took out a couple of late 109s in the P-39 and Yak-7B last night, so even though you're outclassed on the allied side. If you can get a late 109 into a knife fight with you in a Yak-7 it doesnt seem to matter much if its a G14 or a G4. At the very least you can occupy the enemy for long enough for help to arrive, which happened to me more than a few times last night. 

No I still had a blast.  I mean seriously Ive gotten like 3 assists and 3 kills ONLY a2a online.  But I havent seriously played online till this weekend.  That said SP while Ill still do career mode.. My god the rush and heart beating I got from those kills.  Those kills were SO gratifying I found myself thinking about them on the bus.

109 - Pe2.  Shredded me. I hit him bad. Didnt even know I killed him.

Yak7B - 109.  My favorite because it was a fighter. He was new though. Still was a joy.

109 - Sturmovik last night on WoL.  We were over the Soviet vehicles. I was covering ground attackers. There was like 1 truck left and I was goung lower impatient wanting to strafw. I literally think I must have hit my prop BARELY because I got engine damafe but wasnt shot as far as I can tell (no not overheat)

As I was gonna RTB a sturmovik appeared out of nowhere. I raced in and let him have it. Right wing root and where the bulge for landing gear was. I got lotsa hits but its an Il2 and I ogershot.  Pleased as punch when he augered in witb a fireball.  Then me and the guys there (really friendly nice guys both servers btw. Shoutout to the Combat Box guys last night too arnd 11pm EST) wondered wtf an IL2 was doing there hehe.

I do have some trouble taking off in MP. Idk why.  Its weird. Whats weird is Ive found for 109s the best way to countersct the torque and avoid ground loops is actually to ram the throttle forward. You accelerate really fast and it kills the torque well..

However I always seem to lose control with the Fw and yes Im locking the wheel. I can take it off in SP but MP Idk I cant?

Then again maybe its practice. In WoL I crashed on take off about 7 110 Es before I finally got off LOL BUT I did blow the crap outta that transport column.

My problem strafing is greed. I get greedy and fly too low.

Also my assists. My fav was Yak7B on a 190. I hit him he did a panicked split S.  Went into a flat spin. I got a snapshot and he got at least several 12.7 jn the cockpit area. Dont think the 20mm hit him.  I thought he was done. Clever bastard let it spin and recivered and got away.  Respect though

Id also like to add to the community at large. First of all sorry for the many posts. I talk alot IRL and Im from Boston. We.re nothing if not blunt.  If anyone thinks my aim was to mooch sorry but no.  I guess I can see why itd look that way - if you didnt give me the benefit of the doubt.  So let me clarify. I dont think anyone would turn down anything free. I guess maybe I should have left the whoooeee out and put late war planes in MP and not be accussed of this nonsense.

The postd about ppl gifting me stuff wasnt to crow - maybe it was inappropriate, idk, I was tryng to honor those peoples generosity.

So lets be clear.  I want to give to the community. Ive been gifted plenty. And I keep my word.  However I am between jobd and have an 8 yr old son, who games. i cant justify spending money for games for me when moneys tight *now*.  Of course this is temporary.

Thank you to the people who werent rude or didnt assume that this was some weird "buy me stuff" thread.  Look we all like the ganes and planes.  Im new to this version of Il2.  So sue me, I was impressed of my first in game experiences with the late war fighters.

Im not going to comment on this anymore - I dont expect anyone to take my word for anything - but Id also appreciate it if people actually didnt assume or speak for me and if theyre going to accuse me of such dirtball behavior then call me on it as a question not as a statement.

Tganks

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5 hours ago, Sublime said:

@count How do you spot? Ive gotten a lot better at it but its a major problem when I flight high or I fly BnZ I can never keep track of the enemy

Thank you.  See all I read is it could turn unrealistically on flaps. Noone was flyong that high.  4km. Was the highest I saw anyone st. Thats good to know.  The Spitfire IXs are dangerous too but hey still one down.  For BnZ how do yoy spot? Ive fiddled with some with my graphics and mostly its practice but I cannot pull off BnZ like this rn

 

Well in real life the P-47 had a similar sustained turn rate as the 109G series (without flaps). The problem is the 109s can just use stabilizer and get a crazy fast turn.

 

If the P-47 has no room to maneuver and he's loaded down with fuel/bombs then yes he's gonna be pretty easy to beat.

If he has any room to dive and gain speed he'll be some trouble for you imo, so just try and surprise him or get him slow and in a turn fight.

 

I wouldn't try BnZ a Jug if he has similar speed as you, he'll just be able to follow you in the zoom and shoot you down. (this is how I get some of my kills)

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No Id be crazy trying to dive and extend away from a jug.  What worries me is the super flaps I keep hearing about. Havent encountered it though.  Honestly the Spit IXs worry me more lol.  I really dont know WHAT to do with themas BnZ isnt my forte and theyre amazing at turns

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15 minutes ago, Sublime said:

No Id be crazy trying to dive and extend away from a jug.  What worries me is the super flaps I keep hearing about. Havent encountered it though.  Honestly the Spit IXs worry me more lol.  I really dont know WHAT to do with themas BnZ isnt my forte and theyre amazing at turns

Don't dive from the Jug but do a slow steep climbing turn, Jug can't follow as far as I know.

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What about the spits?

I mean boom and zoom.  But spotting is still hard for me.keeping eyes on the enemy extending is a bi*ch

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Pb_Cybermat47 said:

TBH, I think the Jug is better looking than the Mustang.

 

Agreed. Not sure why but I prefer the Razorback when it comes to P-47s.

 

P-51 remind me of a nice sports car but P-47s have that American muscle look to them.

 

xn3yqlymqxe11.jpg

 

 

Edited by Legioneod
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I just flew my trusty he111 h6 and oh man, time was not kind to her looks after the bodenplatte quality of riveting on the skins vs the old ones.. The difference is crazy! Might have to look for high res skins :d 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Legioneod said:

Not sure why but I prefer the Razorback when it comes to P-47s.

 

As the bubble top canopy was designed and developed by the British, 1st time out was on the Typhoon, the razor-back Jug was the all-American Jug. So it could be that, even sub consciously :) (come to think of it the bubble-top Jug is a good stand in for the Typhoon we will probably never see)

 

Same can't be said for the razor-back Mustang, as the British had a huge hand in it's conception, development and the motor that made it go properly was British, albeit licence built in the USA.

 

I've always preferred the razor-backs over the bubble-tops for some reason that I can't quite put my finger on too. For instance, I don't think a Hellcat would look right with a cut down tail and bubble canopy :unsure:

Edited by Pict

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19 hours ago, Sublime said:

No i dont want anyone to gift bobp thats too much.  I dont really mind Im actually fairly excited about how BP works.

So youre saying the G4 is actually a worthwhile contender versus Spits and P47s? Im surprised - I didnt even bother trying the G4 seeing as how 109Ks, Doras, G6s and G16s or whatever were around.

What are you saying BnZ right with the way the p47 flies?

Dude really? I dont want any sponsorship. I hadnt seen any of the late war birds. They look fantastic.  Stop looking for some nefarious thing in someone. Ive already been blessed really well and dont want anything more from anyone here

I actually really just was impressed and wanted to talk about the planes, about the server maybe, and as Count did brinf up whether youre hamstrung and how bad in late war.   I mentioned all three of those.  Ive thanked the ppl who helped me profusely and Ive also said I planned on paying it forward.  Do me a favor and put me on ignore though - putting words in my.mouth (sponsorship? Really) and assuming Im just some leech dirtbag is really nice though.  Thanks Bilbo.

 

Sublime,

 

I will be careful not to break Rule 12, however, I understand that you wouldn't turn down things that are being offered freely and of course that is understandable.  That said, in my dictionary being offered gifts freely, is not approaching players with the terms and on what grounds you expect these gifts to be given.  For me this is certainly not asking for sponsorship and perhaps is just taking the ****.

Being blunt is one thing, being a rascal is another, although "nefarious"  and "leech" are perhaps not the words that I would have used, although I have taken some of your advice above and added you to my ignore list.  

 

Regards

 

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Bearcat was pretty much what an hellcat with an bubble canopy would look like lol agreed thou prefer razor backs myself two 

E1B7C6D2-C5D3-46BE-88D0-E1F47C620E1C.jpeg

3 hours ago, Pict said:

 

As the bubble top canopy was designed and developed by the British, 1st time out was on the Typhoon, the razor-back Jug was the all-American Jug. So it could be that, even sub consciously :) (come to think of it the bubble-top Jug is a good stand in for the Typhoon we will probably never see)

 

Same can't be said for the razor-back Mustang, as the British had a huge hand in it's conception, development and the motor that made it go properly was British, albeit licence built in the USA.

 

I've always preferred the razor-backs over the bubble-tops for some reason that I can't quite put my finger on too. For instance, I don't think a Hellcat would look right with a cut down tail and bubble canopy :unsure:

 

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35 minutes ago, Haza said:

 

Sublime,

 

I will be careful not to break Rule 12, however, I understand that you wouldn't turn down things that are being offered freely and of course that is understandable.  That said, in my dictionary being offered gifts freely, is not approaching players with the terms and on what grounds you expect these gifts to be given.  For me this is certainly not asking for sponsorship and perhaps is just taking the ****.

Being blunt is one thing, being a rascal is another, although "nefarious"  and "leech" are perhaps not the words that I would have used, although I have taken some of your advice above and added you to my ignore list.  

 

Regards

 


"Painfully transparent" were the words that sprang to my mind when I read the original post. 😁

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Posted (edited)
On 4/15/2019 at 1:14 PM, Sublime said:

someone buzzed me (viz id almost shot me down) in a spit IX holy cow it was beautiful.  

 

Hey I think that was me in the spit! On combatbox? You were RTB low on the deck in a yak and I blasted past you from your six and underneath you then up into the blue out in front right!? Maybe about 10 min before server reset.

 

but oh wait I never shot at you. I was coming up fast and thought you were a 109 but realized you were a yak about 200m in gun range and buzzed through!!

 

the spit 9 is my favorite plane. For some reason I just get it, I can feel it more and I like it’s twitchyness

Edited by GiantCorn

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1 hour ago, LP1888 said:

Bearcat was pretty much what an hellcat with an bubble canopy would look like lol agreed thou prefer razor backs myself two 

E1B7C6D2-C5D3-46BE-88D0-E1F47C620E1C.jpeg

 

People are smoking that sheeba that prefer razor back anything, low backs and bubble tops all the way.

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4 hours ago, Pict said:

As the bubble top canopy was designed and developed by the British, 1st time out was on the Typhoon,

 Did you forget about the Whirlwind?

 

tn_Whirlwind-15.jpg

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How about the Curtiss XP 31 Swift, accepted by the Air Corp for testing in Feb. 1933...

 

060907f1234p011eb1.jpg

 

060907f1234p012zk5.jpg

 

And a a version with a radial...

bf6bzph4ds5ufl1fcgyn.jpg

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That Swift looks about half way to a true bubble top, since the whole canopy cannot be pushed back in one piece, unlike the Whirlwind. (Which is an exceptionally cool aircraft - pity it did not make it into wider use).

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, MiloMorai said:

Did you forget about the Whirlwind?

 

No I didn't, the Whirlwind canopy was still a greenhouse and not a true bubble, at least the way I see it, or are the canopy frame spars just painted on? :)

 

You could also argue that the early Fw-190 had a bubble canopy, but it didn't as it was made of 3 parts not one. (Possibly my favorite clear rear view canopy in game, as the lines where three parts join help you with orientation)

 

I reckon the British were well ahead with the "Malcolm hood" on the Spitfire and that lay the foundation for the bubble canopy they produced for the Typhoon.

 

My definition of a bubble canopy would be a one piece "bubble" for want of a better word, and by that I just mean the canopy, not including the windshield :) 

 

2 hours ago, LP1888 said:

Bearcat was pretty much what an hellcat with an bubble canopy would look like

 

That's taking "pretty much" fairly far :)  and much as I love the Bearcat, it never saw action in WW2 and I personally think it's as far away from the Hellcat as the Hellcat was from the Wildcat as they all have major design differences.

 

42 minutes ago, unreasonable said:

That Swift looks about half way to a true bubble top, since the whole canopy cannot be pushed back in one piece, unlike the Whirlwind. (Which is an exceptionally cool aircraft - pity it did not make it into wider use).

 

The Ki-43 "Oscar" had a similar arrangement to the Whirlwind, but it still wasn't a true bubble canopy.

 

All said and done, the Whirlwind was close, but the Typhoon was first with a true bubble canopy.

Edited by Pict

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Haza said:

 

Sublime,

 

I will be careful not to break Rule 12, however, I understand that you wouldn't turn down things that are being offered freely and of course that is understandable.  That said, in my dictionary being offered gifts freely, is not approaching players with the terms and on what grounds you expect these gifts to be given.  For me this is certainly not asking for sponsorship and perhaps is just taking the ****.

Being blunt is one thing, being a rascal is another, although "nefarious"  and "leech" are perhaps not the words that I would have used, although I have taken some of your advice above and added you to my ignore list.  

 

Regards

 

Fantastic.  You coulda pm.d me and violated whatever rule 12 is I could really care less what you think if youre going to assume whatever.  Anyone else who wants to play morality police and put words in my mouth or assume things (exactly where in this thread did I ask for BP?) That are automatically negative.  I could see if you discussed this with me and then reached that conclusion.  But you guys dont even know me man. 

Have a nice life be well

1 hour ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

How about the Curtiss XP 31 Swift, accepted by the Air Corp for testing in Feb. 1933...

 

060907f1234p011eb1.jpg

 

060907f1234p012zk5.jpg

 

And a a version with a radial...

bf6bzph4ds5ufl1fcgyn.jpg

Thats a trip it almost looks.  Stuka-ey.

And idk I really like those bubble canopies.  The Spit IX is more beautiful to me than the Jug Im shamed to admit.  None of them will have the class of that P38 though

Im *VERY* much also looking forward to how the Tempest pans out.  Frankly the rest of the Bodenplatte planes are beautiful and cool etc etc.

But Ive flown all of them heavily in other Il2s or sims.  The Tempest and P38? Not so much..

2 hours ago, JonRedcorn said:

People are smoking that sheeba that prefer razor back anything, low backs and bubble tops all the way.

+1 man.   Razorbacks have a charm but not as mucb charm as a bubble canopied F4U and the charm certainly wears off when youre getting bounced from your 6

11 hours ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

Love your enthusiasm Sublime! Keep it up and enjoy every minute of it :)

Thank you. Really. And Count, Gambit, RedKestrel, and the rest of youse.  Its nice that people figured maybe I just was using a BB for discussion..

Edited by Sublime

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1 hour ago, Pict said:

 

You could also argue that the early Fw-190 had a bubble canopy, but it didn't as it was made of 3 parts not one.

 

3 parts? The perplex was one piece.

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I wondered about this too.  For the A3 theres the front windscreen and as far as I recall the rest of the canopy is one piece that slides back.

If you see screens of a LA5FNs 6 o clock you can see some dividers in the armored glass but those wouldnt help you in a turn.

Oh wait I think he means that the metal bar running over your head. It divides the top into 2 hemispheres...

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From Wiki...

Bubble canopies have been in use since before World War II, with some experimental bubble canopy designs in the World War I era. The British had already developed the "Malcolm hood", which was a bulged canopy, but the British Miles M.20 was one of the first aircraft designs to feature a true one-piece sliding bubble canopy. Although that aircraft never went into production, the concept of the bubble canopy was later utilised on other British aircraft, such as the Hawker Typhoon and Tempest. It was also later fitted to the North American P-51 Mustang[1] and Republic P-47 Thunderbolt amongst others. A well-framed version of an all-around vision canopy was also used on the Imperial Japanese Navy Air Service's well-known Mitsubishi A6M Zero Japanese naval fighter, and different designs with much less framing than the "Zero" had, were used on the Imperial Japanese Army Air Service's Nakajima Ki-43 Oscar and Nakajima Ki-84 Frank land-based fighter planes.

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12 hours ago, Pb_Cybermat47 said:

TBH, I think the Jug is better looking than the Mustang.

That's because you're a person of taste and sophistication!
/real warbirds have curves!

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, MiloMorai said:

3 parts? The perplex was one piece.

 

If anything is "perplex"ed it's you :) Early Fw-190 canopies had 3 sides, left, right and top...bubbles don't have sides any more than they have panels or spars.

 

Was the early Fw-190 canopy a bubble or not? That is my simple question for you. If you think it was a bubble, then that's fine by me. I don't and that should be fine by you

 

1 hour ago, Elem said:

From Wiki...

 

Must be accurate then ;)

 

...also "From Wiki" :wacko: 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_P-47_Thunderbolt#Bubbletop_P-47s

 

Bubbletop P-47s[edit]

All the P-47s produced to this point had a "razorback" canopy configuration with a tall fuselage spine behind the pilot, which resulted in poor visibility to the rear. The British also had this problem with their fighter aircraft, and had devised the bulged "Malcolm hood" canopy for the Spitfire as an initial solution. This type of canopy was fitted in the field to many North American P-51 Mustangs, and to a handful of P-47Ds. However, the British then came up with a much better solution, devising an all-round vision "bubble canopy" for the Hawker Typhoon. USAAF officials liked the bubble canopy, and quickly adapted it to American fighters, including the P-51 and the Thunderbolt. 
Edited by Pict

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Elem said:

the British Miles M.20 was one of the first aircraft designs to feature a true one-piece sliding bubble canopy.

 

This cannot be true as even in the link given there is a drawing of this aircraft that clearly shows that it's canopy has a central spar seperating the two halves that make up the so called bubble :) 

Edited by Pict

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On 4/15/2019 at 7:23 PM, Legioneod said:

 

Agreed. Not sure why but I prefer the Razorback when it comes to P-47s.

 

P-51 remind me of a nice sports car but P-47s have that American muscle look to them.

 

xn3yqlymqxe11.jpg

 

 

Olive drab and razorback is the best looking combo for P-47s and P-51s(in my opinion)!

P-47 razorback with it's split windshield reminds me of cars of late 30s - early 40s. Looks badass!

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