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Venturi

WHY are all Allied tracers the same, and WHY are all axis tracers the same?

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If you recall, the tracers not only between sides, but between each particular weapon system in an aircraft could have different tracers. It was one of the first things I noticed about the original IL2. Green tracers for MGs, red for the cannons.

 

Why then does each plane on a particular side have IDENTICAL tracer colors (only differing in brightness for bigger rounds)?

 

It almost seems like this is done for gamey multiplayer ID purposes. It certainly isn’t realistic. 

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53 minutes ago, Venturi said:

If you recall, the tracers not only between sides, but between each particular weapon system in an aircraft could have different tracers. It was one of the first things I noticed about the original IL2. Green tracers for MGs, red for the cannons.

 

Why then does each plane on a particular side have IDENTICAL tracer colors (only differing in brightness for bigger rounds)?

 

It almost seems like this is done for gamey multiplayer ID purposes. It certainly isn’t realistic. 

 

I've wondered this as well. I also wonder why they chose to synchronize the American 50s instead of allowing them to free fire and the fact that we can't set gun harmonization but are forced to use a single convergence setting.

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And when will we have the option to include specific tracers, e.g. 10 white tracers in succession, say, 50 rounds (or whatever) before the mag is empty? It was common practise in the 8th AF to mark your magazine status as you didn't have bullet counters.

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2 minutes ago, ZachariasX said:

And when will we have the option to include specific tracers, e.g. 10 white tracers in succession, say, 50 rounds (or whatever) before the mag is empty? It was common practise in the 8th AF to mark your magazine status as you didn't have bullet counters.

 

Now that would be sweet.

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Probably because there are bigger fish to fry at this point.

I'd call all of this "nice to have" but not ultimately important to game-play experience.

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Just now, pfrances said:

Probably because there are bigger fish to fry at this point.

I'd call all of this "nice to have" but not ultimately important to game-play experience.

 

True but we really should have free firing guns and the ability to set a pattern. The way they have the 50s set up now makes it much harder to hit than it should be. Thats the reason they had patterns and free firing guns in the first place iirc.

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2 minutes ago, pfrances said:

Probably because there are bigger fish to fry at this point.

I'd call all of this "nice to have" but not ultimately important to game-play experience.

 

Different colours for tracer could be a big game changer for identification. 

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2 minutes ago, AeroAce said:

 

Different colours for tracer could be a big game changer for identification. 

Good point

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There's the story from Hanns Scharff, the famous interrogator. He was notified that sometimes the Americans would shoot ten white tracers. They had no idea why. Some downed American pilot however told him that this was to indicate when the mag was about to be empty. Scharff quickly make a report and sent that out to the units. Next time he met Priller, he asked him if he could use that info. Priller said yes, absolutely. Just shortly he had a fight with an American and he saw those tracers. Scharf asked then. "Did you shoot him down then?" And Priller said "no." When asked why not, Priller said, "Why not? He was out of ammo and disarmed."

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Another thing is all the tracers look like some plasma gun rays from a distance. Too thick and too bright. Looks cartoonish.

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I will say that the VVS tracers seem more reddish and the Luftwaffes more yellow.

I wont lie it did give me a huge pause moment when I didnt see green tracers. Pretty sure they (SU) used them in WW2 but I could be wrong.

And yes I dont think just the 8th used the all tracers at the end of ammo thing.  IIRC the RAF did some places too and it doesnt seem like itd be hard to implement. It IS very useful - Ive done it in other games..

I didnt know the 50s arent free firing. That explains why many snapshots I make dont hit if theyre all firing bursts at once.  Thats part of the appeal of 6 50s is in deflection shooting you can "hose" your bullets onto someone and it makes them really lethal for snapshots because you usually get a few bullets in..

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I enjoyed being able to pick your tracer colour in CloD. Putting mixed white, red, and yellow tracers in .303 ammo belts to give the hun something pretty to look at while you shoot him down :hunter:

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11 minutes ago, Trooper117 said:

You lot need to look on the mod pages...

What’s the point of mods when you can’t use them online? Or can you?

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I don't play online... but there is a very good tracer mod available.

But I agree that this should be in a vanilla install of the game. 

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This is pretty much all I want and it would help the spread problem and be a bit more realistic.

 

Convergance.thumb.png.3810fa56529598632108a0adda2d4c23.png

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What about being able to choose sequences of ammo, like ball AP API HE etc.   know a few of the mods allow this but I thought the pilots or armorers at least spent a lot of time deciding what sequence of ammo types to use beyond just tracers.  Some planes even went without I think?  Since tracers tend to give you away when bouncing if you miss... unless this was a player technique in another sim > : )

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Naaa I loved being able to have tracerless ammo in CloD,  and even having observer rounds... poof poof!!  Did nothing but they were interesting...

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2 hours ago, CAFulcrum said:

What about being able to choose sequences of ammo, like ball AP API HE etc.   know a few of the mods allow this but I thought the pilots or armorers at least spent a lot of time deciding what sequence of ammo types to use beyond just tracers.  Some planes even went without I think?  Since tracers tend to give you away when bouncing if you miss... unless this was a player technique in another sim > : )

In reality at this point in the war API/API-T was the mainstay for American fighters, Ap wasn't used much at all. I agree though we should be able to choose wither API (no tracer) or API-T (tracer).

 

It would also be nice to have an option where you only have API-T when you're down to the inboards like in the P-51.

 

Harmonization is much more important than tracers however and I hope they implement something similar to what I posted above.

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Posted (edited)

THE  Tracers SUCKS 

50 respectable people, impose their opinion ABAUT ALL OF THE SIM , Against 10 Thousand Players

 

Edited by =MANCOS=Panzer-Red
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Posted (edited)

also adding the smoke to the 50. tracers would be a nice aesthetic appeal

Edited by catchthefoxes
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early form of IFF due to what kind of phosphorus they used? I know US was red and Soviet Green In Vietnam. hence the red lasers and green lasers in star wars 

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15 hours ago, gimpy117 said:

early form of IFF due to what kind of phosphorus they used? I know US was red and Soviet Green In Vietnam. hence the red lasers and green lasers in star wars 

Not the form of phosphorus, I think, but the oxidiser. For example, I know that Soviet 7.62x54mm used barium salts (probably barium nitrate) as an oxidiser, which should give a pale green colour. I don't know about other tracers, though. If we knew the compounds involved, we could actually know exactly what colour each tracer should be. Might be an interesting thread if people have the sources (I do not).

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On 4/16/2019 at 6:27 PM, =MANCOS=Panzer-Red said:

THE  Tracers SUCKS 

50 respectable people, impose their opinion ABAUT ALL OF THE SIM , Against 10 Thousand Players

 

 

May want to chill a bit there friend. Try to maintain a respectful tone.

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I too miss the tracers from original il2... very distinctive way of knowing who is who in a fur-ball or when orbiting one.  

 

The Tracers don’t suck..  I think the brightness could be toned down a bit though.... 

then again I have no experience with them in real life so I’m just speaking out of preference:). 

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The tracers are a nice size I think length wise, I am too of the preference that the could be a bit "thinner" but that's just me.

 

I'm perfectly happy with them now as it stands. Different colour (for certain nations) and ammo options would be a nice addition though. 

 

Does anybody actually know what colour tracers were used by the respective participants so far?? 

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I know the original IL-2 had green tracers for the super fast MGs and red tracers for the cannons. I know some tracers were white, some were yellow, some were red, some were green. 

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But was it realistic? Do we have documentation on tracer colors used in various guns? 

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56 minutes ago, Arthur-A said:

But was it realistic? Do we have documentation on tracer colors used in various guns? 

 

Yes - Barium was and still is used in Russia for its tracers, which gives off a green tint. 

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On 4/21/2019 at 6:36 AM, spartan85 said:

I too miss the tracers from original il2... very distinctive way of knowing who is who in a fur-ball or when orbiting one.  

 

The Tracers don’t suck..  I think the brightness could be toned down a bit though.... 

then again I have no experience with them in real life so I’m just speaking out of preference:). 

 

I've run through a 100 round box with a ship-mounted 50 caliber heavy machine gun. I think it was loaded for tracers 1 in 4 or maybe 1 in 6. It was mid-day in overcast skies in the middle of the Pacific (I was a civilian on a Tiger Cruise with the Canadian Navy). I recall that the tracers appeared as small, bright, fast moving dots rather than streaks of light.

 

The streaks we see in game are more indicative of how a tracer shows up when filmed by a camera which I think is where most people get their expectations set. Based on my own (admittedly limited) experience I don't think the in-game tracers are "realistic" but they are definitely functional from a game play mechanic point of view.

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2 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

Yes - Barium was and still is used in Russia for its tracers, which gives off a green tint. 

And German cannon tracers were blue? I guess I'll install that tracer mod then. 

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On 4/21/2019 at 11:50 PM, Venturi said:

I know the original IL-2 had green tracers for the super fast MGs and red tracers for the cannons. I know some tracers were white, some were yellow, some were red, some were green. 

 

On 4/23/2019 at 5:55 PM, Arthur-A said:

But was it realistic? Do we have documentation on tracer colors used in various guns? 

 

As far as I remember, it was, the old dev team was quite proud about the detail of tracers back in the early 2000s.

 

Frankly, the new dev team could do the same, especially as they would just have to fire up old Il2 and take some notes and make slightly different textures accordingly.

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If someone has access to sources that detail the oxidisers used, they can know exactly what the colours should be and make a suggestion/report on the issue. But there must be sources.

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