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What are the small holes for on the D9 wings?


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Gents,

 

Anton airframes don’t have this but if you look at the wings of the D9 machines you will see multiple drilled holes across the wings.

 

What’s the purpose of these?

 

RGDS

Edited by Bilbo_Baggins
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I was wondering the same thing. First time I saw them I imagined they could be bullet damage, until noticing there were identical simetrical holes on the other side.

 

My guess would be they are related to the access panels. But its just a guess.

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41 minutes ago, danielprates said:

I was wondering the same thing. First time I saw them I imagined they could be bullet damage, until noticing there were identical simetrical holes on the other side.

 

Went through the same thought process. For a second i thought they increased the resolution of the damage but that's not it.

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I've wondered about this as well. It's interesting to note, that the Dora model in DCS doesn't have them, and they are missing from some of the existing scale models and from some technical drawings as well, and some only have the rearmost hole above the flaps, so I guess it wasn't ubiquitous among Dora-9s.

Edited by Finkeren
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It would be exciting to know from which aircraft/drawing the D9 model was created. It is very likely that the model had these holes. In general the D9 looks rather desolate in contrast to the other planes.  It doesn't bother me personally, it fits quite well to the look.

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Not just on the wings: there is one next to the fuel cap and another under the tail. They look like access holes to remove panels, the sort you stick your allen key into, which might normally have a small pop-off cover.

 

Edit: In fact looking at the viewer you can see such a cover on what I think would be the same kind of hole right in front of the line of holes on the top wing, just behind the dashed white no-step line.

Edited by unreasonable
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1 hour ago, unreasonable said:

Edit: In fact looking at the viewer you can see such a cover on what I think would be the same kind of hole right in front of the line of holes on the top wing, just behind the dashed white no-step line.

 

If it's the hole I'm thinking of, that's where the landing gear indicator pops out. What you see as the cover is just the top of the indicator rod, I think. 

Edited by Finkeren
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2 hours ago, Finkeren said:

 

 

If it's the hole I'm thinking of, that's where the landing gear indicator pops out. What you see as the cover is just the top of the indicator rod, I think. 

 

Having just discovered the animation function in the viewer I see that you are absolutely right. I do note, however, that close inspection of the mystery holes shows that they have a worn ring around them, as though there was once a cover that is now missing, but I suppose that could just be wear from rotating a tool.

 

Perhaps someone who knows will come along if this thread can be kept up. ;) 

 

 

Edited by unreasonable
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O/t 

Hehe this reminds me of the Soviet copy of a B29 that had an unncessary hole punched in a wing.  It was copied and its thought it was a construction error particular to one air frame :)

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17 minutes ago, Sublime said:

O/t 

Hehe this reminds me of the Soviet copy of a B29 that had an unncessary hole punched in a wing.  It was copied and its thought it was a construction error particular to one air frame :)

 

There’s an unsubstantiated but likely story about the Tu-144, the thinly-veiled Soviet ripoff of Concorde, stating that the designers knew the Soviets were trying to steal blueprints to reverse-engineer the aircraft so they included deliberate mistakes. The Soviet designers replicated the errors which contributed to the notorious unreliability of the finished aircraft. 

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1 hour ago, LukeFF said:

They are for fluid drainage. 

 

On the top? Did they use suction to draw fluid up or is it like a bleed button that would make the fluid come out elsewhere? 

1 hour ago, Royal_Flight said:

 

There’s an unsubstantiated but likely story about the Tu-144, the thinly-veiled Soviet ripoff of Concorde, stating that the designers knew the Soviets were trying to steal blueprints to reverse-engineer the aircraft so they included deliberate mistakes. The Soviet designers replicated the errors which contributed to the notorious unreliability of the finished aircraft. 

 

I read this. The British or French leak a bogus tire compound that contained very questionable ingredients.  The soviets lost a lot of time scratching their heads.

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I think they are control linkage  inspection holes. They seem to follow the same pattern as the linkage points in the picture below.

 

 

 

 

 

Fw 190 Linkage Points.jpg

Edited by bzc3lk
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18 minutes ago, bzc3lk said:

I think they are control linkage  inspection holes. They seem to follow the same pattern as the linkage points in the picture below.

 

 

For the insertion of control system rigging pins.

 

 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Elem said:

For the insertion of control system rigging pins.

 

Access for the control rod bellcrank pins would be from under the wings via the maintenance hatches.

 

 

Fw 190 D9 belcrank Inspection Hatch.jpg

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I have found pictures  of real D9s with the holes on the bottom of the wing but in every picture I have found of the top of the wing they are ether not there or too hard to see or possibly covered. 

 

I'm starting to think the diagram (above) the devs used may have been miss read because of the pictures I have seen and also because it seems like a silly design choice to have open holes on the top of a wing that lead directly onto vital parts of the control system. Rain could get in a rust it up. These planes were clearly not always kept in a hanger making damage from water or dirt a real risk. If they are on the top surly they would be capped??

 

Anyway that is a little theory of mine that may be completely wrong.

Edited by AeroAce
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Modern planes often have holes like these on both upper and lower surfaces to allow insertion of a socket to loosen / tighten the pivot bolt and nut. They are usually covered with a plug... we call them a Wilkie Plug (Google it). I suspect that this late stage of the war the expected life of the plane was so low that they didn't give a damn or had run out of them.

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4 hours ago, II./JG1_Vonrd said:

Modern planes often have holes like these on both upper and lower surfaces to allow insertion of a socket to loosen / tighten the pivot bolt and nut. They are usually covered with a plug... we call them a Wilkie Plug (Google it). I suspect that this late stage of the war the expected life of the plane was so low that they didn't give a damn or had run out of them.

 

Thanks, makes sense now. So do you think the Anton machines also have these same 'Wilkie' holes but are just plugged? I'm unaware if or how the wing design differs from the D9 machines.

 

Regards

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5 hours ago, II./JG1_Vonrd said:

I suspect that this late stage of the war the expected life of the plane was so low that they didn't give a damn or had run out of them.

 

But that runs in the face of the idea that all plane are fresh from the factory!?

 

(lol i feel sorry any one that google translates the above)

Edited by AeroAce
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Had a look again at the A series machines wings but couldn't see any traces of these 'Wilkie' plugged holes. I wonder if the D series machines introduced these holes and why they weren't on the A series?

 

Did other fighters of the era also have these same type of Wilkie holes? 

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These holes existed on both the A and D model, but were covered. The manual refers to the covers as Zackenscheibe (spoked disk or so). I couldn't find it in the spare parts list.

 

I have not seen a picture of an operational Fw190 were the holes on the top were visible, but then high quality pictures and staring at them for hours looking for tiny details are not really my cup of tea, so I might have missed it.

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52 minutes ago, chuter said:

It was standard practice on German aircraft to cover holes and seam gaps with fabric "tape".

 

Seems to be the case with this example.

 

 

 

Fw 190 D9 Patches.jpg

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Actually, it looks like the Air Force Museum example (Junkers Bernburg?) doesn't have the access holes nor does the D-13 (wings by Junkers Bernburg), NASM F-8 (wings by Arado?) and the F5 (Fw Bremen?) here in the US.  On the other hand White 1 (Dornier) does.  Of note the Ta152H0 at NASM doesn't either (H0 wings were modified 190 wings, H1 were dedicated 152 wings).  It could be a/some manufacturers incorporated these holes for production and/or it was an acceptable field mod for maintenance accessibility with the proviso that the hole then be patched over.  Fabric patches usually have pinked edges (google images: aircraft pinked patch) to reduce fraying and the Germans would have likely sprayed over them (and pinked seam tape) with a sandable primer making them virtually invisible so not seeing them in photos isn't necessarily a guarantee they aren't there*.  Museums today don't appear to be in any mood to maintain the bondo and tape/patch work on these old planes for corrosion reasons.

 

* You can sure tell when the tape has been pulled off though - lol.

 

PS.  The prop on the D9 at the USAFM is a Ju88 prop from the vast Ju88 spares inventory they had.  The tips are at a slight negative pitch because to increase the pitch at all would run the prop's trailing edge into the cowling.  190D and Ta152 props all had this root trailing edge trimmed away.

Edited by chuter
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