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JonRedcorn

The downfall of the simulation community

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All of which illustrates the point that this forum is itself a form of social media, so we should not be too smug about the young zombies with phones implanted in their hands.

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Very true indeed. There is a lot of looking down on others here. The "young" do things differently- doesn't mean they have no hobbies. While I find it scary as well when someone gains all his selfesteem from social media - this not true for the majority of young people. As NET correctly put it: every generation have their strengths and problems. 

 

No time for hobbies? Maybe different hobbies! The hobby that unites us on this forum is a special genre of video games - and video games as a whole do better then ever. In fact they do so well that they might be responsible for the decline of other hobbies. 

 

It's just that flightsims went from a major genre to niche. 

 

 

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Speaking of the downfall of simulator civilization ... what ever happened to Rock Simulator 2014 ?

 

 

Those trees look great.... and the grass is not too bad. Rock is ok. I prefer boulders...

 

S!

 

Planky.

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3 minutes ago, Eisenfaustus said:

While I find it scary as well when someone gains all his selfesteem from social media - this not true for the majority of young people.

 

This has been me, to be honest, thanks to a mix of depression, anxiety, and asperger’s syndrome. Fortunately I have plenty of stuff going on IRL to remind me that there are more important things, but I do worry about people whose social lives depend entirely on the internet.

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2 minutes ago, Frakkas said:
  • .....

 

I fly on Geman side and I hardly see any Pe-2/A20/Yak/etc. over 1k-2k - how come we ended up in this situation? This puzzles me great deal.

 

Can you give them any reason why they should?

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42 minutes ago, Frakkas said:

I fly on Geman side and I hardly see any Pe-2/A20/Yak/etc. over 1k-2k - how come we ended up in this situation? This puzzles me great deal.


Why don't you fly those planes over 2k and see what happens. 

 

S! P.

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Dont give up on youth. There is still hope there 😉

 

1 hour ago, Frakkas said:
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I fly on Geman side and I hardly see any Pe-2/A20/Yak/etc. over 1k-2k - how come we ended up in this situation? This puzzles me great deal.

 Welcome in MP. Why I should fly in those altittudes, when there is nothing to gain by it. Low flying is good, you are hard to spot.

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The topic is the downfall of the simulation community and not the downfall of the simulation games.

The simulation games are getting better and better, the content is even more than we can actually enjoy. There are a lot of people enjoying the sim.

 

Part of the issue is more about the downfall of the initial enthusiasm of the first generation of simmers. Even though by any means their dream came true. The present title is by any means the sim they have dreamed to play. And even if that title is there, even if that they have purchased the game. They are not involved. A lot of people lost interest. And I think it is a normal process. Even though many of them do not play anymore some support the developers by buying the new content.

 

My squad JG27 is one of the oldest squads in the il 2 46. Squad members were even involved with the creation of the Hyperlobby. Today we have only one guy who was there at the creation of the squad. Where are the others? I think they lost interest. I have also friends that lost interest in the genre. Whole squads disappeared like that. Squad communities were much more vibrant and active back then, than they are now.

 

I think we have more a downfall of the simulation squadron community. People loosing interest is just one part of the equation. The new comers is the other.

And it is there where things start to get interesting.

 

Back in the time it was at the squad level where all the training was happening. When you join a squadron you have a kind of a personal instructor who teaches you the ropes. I remember when I joined my first squadron VNVV (Royal Bulgarian Air Force), I was taught the basics of the Luftwaffe tactics. It was an awesome experience to have no experience whatsoever and to fly a training flight and to have an instruction about what to do. I took notes. Only one guy from the whole squad VNVV plays now, it is VNVV_Rosev.

 

Now it is not how things happen we have youtube, we have streams. You have for example DerSheriff, people who enter the game they have watched his stream and other streams a lot. People watch his tutorials and other tutorials that are excellent and those people are doing a great service to the community.

 

And as such content is readily available in youtube, those new guys think, that they are good to go. Who cares about joining a squad? Then they join alone in Multiplayer. Then they transform themselves into cannon fodder very quickly, again and again and even more. And many of them just rage quit some are repeating the cycle with watching more DerSheriff content, some quit for good. Only a few try to contact a squadron and seek for answers. And when they fly with a squadron their first reaction is the amazement how much more they survive in the hostile environment. When you fly, you should not be alone you rely on others, that is the squadron experience.


The newcomers miss one very important point. This game is not about playing alone. It is not Fortnight. It is a team play electronic sport. You do not play alone, you play as a part of a team. And only in a squad you can learn how this is done. Not by watching youtube streams but by interacting with the other pilots. So there are a lot of people that are missing the most important content in the game the team play experience.

 

So as old players loose interest and there are no new replacements the connection is lost that makes the squadron. And many old squadrons are now a mere shadow of what they were before.


 

 

 

Edited by JG27_Kornezov
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1 hour ago, Frakkas said:

 

Keep up that spirit, you are the best!

 

 

Teacher, to whom are you saying that? Did you read my post or too buzy talking about yourself? Very unpleasant to discuss with 'guru's' or 'trolls'



I did read your post. And by the way you present your content it is pretty obvious you are  struggling a lot in the multiplayer. Even more as a newcomer to the forum you are insulting respected members of the community for no reason. Well we have some heated debates in the community but it is always about an issue, like specific plane performance or FM. Tactics are pretty obvious for those who have experience.

Actually yes, I am teaching those who are interested how to get better. It is a long process though. And I am proud to say that we made a totally effective team with our new recruits and we have the videos to prove that.
In the recruiting process the character is much more important than the skills though. By the way you react it is highly unlikely  you are going to get recruited LOL by a high tier squad. Even worse trying to make your own squad without any idea how things work on a squad level is a very bad practice. Myself, I feel delighted when my team massacres newby squads.
For those who think that youtube has all the answers. No they are not there youtube cannot give you feedback and correction, only your team mate can.
It is even hilarious when somebody watches videos and becomes an expert in the area.
To answer your question the Russians are flying tactically as a team on the servers, they have objectives to destroy. The fighter cover has to protect the bombers. They do not have the numbers to make several layers at different altitudes, sometimes they do, but rarely. To stop them you need also to get low. Any 5 km flying blue pilots are completely useless  for the mission. Not to mention the fact it is utterly boring.
Even more the historical evidence is exactly the same the il 2 were flying low.

Edited by JG27_Kornezov
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2 hours ago, Frakkas said:

Answering a question with an other one is quite easy and not gonna waist my time answering your 4892 posts (knowledge is like jam on bread, the less you have the more you spread it)

 

 

I take that as a "no".

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7 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

I'm feeling a cascade of up-voting but apparently I've used all of my up-votes for the day

The thing about this forum is that this happens to me most days. THAT has got to be an indictment? This particular one is a guaranteed graveyard of the upvote, a man could use a month's allowance in the blink of an eye (in my case, the blink of the one eye!). It's brilliant. I LOVE it!!

2 hours ago, SovietAce said:

Dont give up on youth. There is still hope there 😉

The schoolkids in this are from a school about 20 miles (yes, miles!) away from our house. Airfix (or similar) was the root of all interest for me, my brothers, my cousins and ALL my mates from when I was a kid (which was a long, long time ago!!) until girls, alcohol and other nefarious substances/distractions.

My Grandad was an electrician and airframe 'technician' on Spits and Hurricanes in the war and this game (and it IS a game) more than fills my needs for fulfilment. I only wish Grandad were still here to show him, I really do.

ps @SovietAce Have you watched the entire episode of this? They actually build a life-sized Airfix Spitfire. It's brilliant! 

 

Edited by Raptorattacker
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4 hours ago, Frakkas said:
  • Some of you are smart, some are not.
  • Some take BOS as a simulator, some as a ratata game.
  • You love arguing/sharing real ww2 manuals, data's, historical facts.
  • Sharing what you read like if you were pilots in ww2.

 

All these are fine but then why +/- 80% of the community flies between butterflies and squirrels? Most of bombers/fighters here fly on the deck.

 

I fly on Geman side and I hardly see any Pe-2/A20/Yak/etc. over 1k-2k - how come we ended up in this situation? This puzzles me great deal.

After a quick glance at your post history it seems you basically just fly on wings of liberty. Yet here you are lamenting how people are turning the game into an arcade game, maybe try the other servers where lone wolfs and gps guided straight shooters aren't the norm. Just the other day my buddies and I were doing pe-2 runs at 3k and dive bombing in kota. Must have missed out playing on wings.

Edited by JonRedcorn
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1 hour ago, Raptorattacker said:

The schoolkids in this are from a school about 20 miles (yes, miles!) away from our house. Airfix (or similar) was the root of all interest for me, my brothers, my cousins and ALL my mates from when I was a kid (which was a long, long time ago!!) until girls, alcohol and other nefarious substances/distractions.

My Grandad was an electrician and airframe 'technician' on Spits and Hurricanes in the war and this game (and it IS a game) more than fills my needs for fulfilment. I only wish Grandad were still here to show him, I really do.

ps @SovietAce Have you watched the entire episode of this? They actually build a life-sized Airfix Spitfire. It's brilliant! 

 

Sadly not. Definitely must check it out. This is must see materiál for every scale modelers :). Also agreed about your point about IL2. Its gives really good impresion for people who are interested in WW2 aircrafts. Also have you heard about this "simulator"?: 

 

 

Edited by SovietAce
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21 minutes ago, SovietAce said:

Also have you heard about this "simulator"?

Yeah, I've seen a couple of videos on it. It looks interesting and that ALSO made me think of me Grandad! 

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10 minutes ago, Frakkas said:

 

Think twice before trying to be offensive and saying wrong affirmations... I fly on quality expert servers with no gps and I am in very good terms with the admins.

 

Apparently, only a few can give their opinions on this forum and others are just lamenting, I won't have a look at your post history +1k...you sleep here? :)

Haha, you come here talking about how unpleasant it is to talk with gurus and trolls yet here you are, guns blazing from the start. Truly a man of hyprocytical endevours. It's you vs the evil forum users and gurus. You got it champ. 

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30 minutes ago, Frakkas said:

face to face, you would be fleeing -  end of discussion.

 

You’re so badass, I bet Jon is quaking in his boots right now.

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10 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

 

Yep, and I also gave you an up-vote for your up-vote.

I up-vote your up-vote for up-voting the sentence.

 

I believe we have got a lot of answers in this post, I am convinced that this is a mix of all the reasons you all guys said.

The world is changing so quickly nowadays.

 

I Loved the old Il2, for me, it was a good balance of realism and fun gameplay. We have a much better sim now, but not the same "easy" game-play @PatrickAWlson  @JimTM @Eisenfaustus

Added not new  new gameplay  for bombers with missing functionalities or just not fun to use them in mp. @Feathered_IV  @Sokol1 @Leifr @LuseKofte

Added no tutorial in Il2GB Luckily , the U2 is good for beginner @15[Span.]/JG51Spartan

Added the fact that people prefer to interact with screens more that interact with real people  @Plank 

Added the fact that WW2 is more old now there is less veterans @Mysticpuma @Trooper117

Added it is an expensive hobby @=362nd_FS=RoflSeal@angus26

Added toxicity from some sick people feeling their have power on internet @Vig

Added people are seeking for instant gratification and rewards @Legioneod @LF_Gallahad @Hanu

Added that we feel less emotions because of the high realism @Pudu @unreasonable @Vig

Added less interest in aviation,  @Cunctator

Added People less involved flying together @=362nd_FS=Hiromachi

Added in some countries, Civilian sim is booming, but not combat sim @69th_Ustio

Added bad business model @Rolling_Thunder

 

Sorry If I missed some of you, It is a huge work to summarize.

 

Edited by Nil
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If posed with a similar question a couple years ago, I might have agreed with the assumed conclusion of the thread title.  But over the years I've come to think that comparing the antique airplane games, that some of us have mentioned, with what we have today, seems like trying to compare apples and oranges.  Sure, there was a time when those pre-www airplane games on the Commodore 64 and IBM 486 seemed to occupy a more prominent place on the shelves of brick and mortar stores, but in light of what we have available to us now, it might as well have been a different genre to me.   And honestly, I don't even remember those ancient classics ever being so popular as people claim...In my teens and 20's I was not acquaninted with any other person in the world that actually had -any- of the things I was calling "flight simulators" back then.

 

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As for people less involved now flying together... I think that if we had a functionality like Hyperlobby it may well go a long way to help rectify that situation.

 

Plus, if there was a sim out there that had the graphics of the GB series, plus it's flying qualities, but with a simplified engine management system like the old IL2, I suspect a great many people would be flying it.

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