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Hi all

 

I play IL2 as realistically as possible in career mode so I turn off all aids apart from warmed engine. This means that I have to navigate as you would in a normal aircraft by looking at scenery and taking timings to waypoints. This was all fine for ages but I have now started to notice that aircraft icons and ground units in red and blue now appear on the map when I get within a certain radius to the objective point. Has this been added on one of the recent updates or is there some key press I have accidentally hit? How can I turn this off? I have attached a screen grab as an example.

il2-icons.jpg

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Posted (edited)

Hi @bluedragon,

I posted a similar question a few days ago.

@RedKestrel was kind enough to explain it to me.  I quote his answer:

 

Quote

When you are flying troop cover or river crossing cover missions, there is a forward observer post that reports the positions of enemy and allied aircraft within a set distance from the observer. If you look closely on the map you will see that there is a transparent red circle extending out from where the troops or crossing is. This is the range of the 'radar'. Any planes in that circle are shown on your map. This is basically simulating ground troops reporting sightings of planes, though I don't think there was really direct Forward Air Control in reality on the Eastern Front.

Weirdly enough, if you have the icon showing your position turned off in realism settings, you can see every plane EXCEPT your own plane.

 

Edited by Rosco
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Thanks for the quick reply Rosco. That's a bit annoying. In reality would pilots in the air be in constant contact with ground forces? If they were they would be given grid coordinates to a friend or foe, not an obvious red or blue icon on a map which is far too easy to suss out.

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24 minutes ago, Rosco said:

Hi @bluedragon,

I posted a similar question a few days ago.

@RedKestrel was kind enough to explain it to me.  I quote his answer:

 

 

I was just about to come in here and post the same explanation, lol. Glad it was helpful 
 

 

8 minutes ago, bluedragon said:

Thanks for the quick reply Rosco. That's a bit annoying. In reality would pilots in the air be in constant contact with ground forces? If they were they would be given grid coordinates to a friend or foe, not an obvious red or blue icon on a map which is far too easy to suss out.

I agree, I'd like the ability to turn this off as well, or 'mask' it to certain grid coordinates. In reality, on the Eastern front, I don't think there was much in the way of air-ground coordination with ground troops in the area. I think it would be reported back to central commands and then fighters would be scrambled or informed. Given that a lot of VVS planes had no radio or unreliable ones, I doubt they had a direct channel to ground troops. Not sure about Luftwaffe. I think the Western allies only really got direct air-ground control analogous to the current FAC doctrine in modern airforces very late in the war, during the NW europe campaign. 

Generally speaking when flying patrol once I'm orbiting the target area I don't bother with the map anymore, and just head in the bearing the ground controller gives me when they talk about incoming enemy craft. I only look at the map again when its time to leave.

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4 minutes ago, bluedragon said:

Thanks for the quick reply Rosco. That's a bit annoying. In reality would pilots in the air be in constant contact with ground forces? If they were they would be given grid coordinates to a friend or foe, not an obvious red or blue icon on a map which is far too easy to suss out.

I completely agree, it is a strong immersion killer.  A message like "enemy aircraft spotted in the vicinity of xx,yy"  would be great, even if it was relayed via text.

I am curious at how fighter pilots conducted navigation when visibility was poor.  Do you know if they performed the waypoint timing computation by themselves while flying?

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1 minute ago, Rosco said:

I completely agree, it is a strong immersion killer.  A message like "enemy aircraft spotted in the vicinity of xx,yy"  would be great, even if it was relayed via text.

I am curious at how fighter pilots conducted navigation when visibility was poor.  Do you know if they performed the waypoint timing computation by themselves while flying?

Going from what I know of western air forces, they flew in formation with their leader, and the leader was largely responsible for navigation. Obviously everyone would be keeping an eye on time, speed, altitude etc. but also focusing on flying in formation and keeping an eye out for bandits. In poor visibility you would be navigating by dead reckoning and knowledge of weather would be critical. It must be said that flights of fighters often got lost, missed meetups with bombers, attacked the wrong positions, etc. because of navigation errors or missing info.

There were radio navigation aids available as well and some fighters were equipped with them (we have a few in the sim, actually). There were even rudimentary IFF transponders so radar controllers could tell who was an enemy when vectoring intercepts, though these were prone to problems as well.

The whole 'synchronize your watches, gentlemen' was critical for navigation and meeting up with bombers for escort. They routinely flew above cloud banks that were too much to allow purely visible navigation. often they knew they were in the right place because flak was shooting at them.

Without a navigator to do the tasks though, fighters were less able to cope with poor visibility though.

At least one RAF officer told his compatriots that if they got lost over France, they were to set the compass bearing to their squadron number and follow it back to base. This is largely a joke but for his squadron this actually worked, as their number was 303 and that number would get them back to an area of the british coast where they could then find their airfield.

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I know that Normandie Niemen used to fight with Forward air control, coordination with à french observer.

I présumé that other vvs units did so too.

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3 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

Going from what I know of western air forces, they flew in formation with their leader, and the leader was largely responsible for navigation. Obviously everyone would be keeping an eye on time, speed, altitude etc. but also focusing on flying in formation and keeping an eye out for bandits. In poor visibility you would be navigating by dead reckoning and knowledge of weather would be critical. It must be said that flights of fighters often got lost, missed meetups with bombers, attacked the wrong positions, etc. because of navigation errors or missing info.

There were radio navigation aids available as well and some fighters were equipped with them (we have a few in the sim, actually). There were even rudimentary IFF transponders so radar controllers could tell who was an enemy when vectoring intercepts, though these were prone to problems as well.

The whole 'synchronize your watches, gentlemen' was critical for navigation and meeting up with bombers for escort. They routinely flew above cloud banks that were too much to allow purely visible navigation. often they knew they were in the right place because flak was shooting at them.

Without a navigator to do the tasks though, fighters were less able to cope with poor visibility though.

At least one RAF officer told his compatriots that if they got lost over France, they were to set the compass bearing to their squadron number and follow it back to base. This is largely a joke but for his squadron this actually worked, as their number was 303 and that number would get them back to an area of the british coast where they could then find their airfield.

Superb answer,  thanks for enlightening me again!

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32 minutes ago, PatCartier said:

I know that Normandie Niemen used to fight with Forward air control, coordination with à french observer.

I présumé that other vvs units did so too.

I had not heard that. Interesting! Normandie Niemen flew Yak-9s correct? Perhaps it became more practical later in the war as radio tech improved and more aircraft were equipped with them.

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Posted (edited)

Actually the squadron started with Yak-1 and only later got Yak-3 (which - according to the wiki article - Stalin eventually awarded to the respective pilots as a personal title in reward for their service).

Edited by VTMarvin

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