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Posted (edited)
52 minutes ago, JG51_BlackC5 said:

I have read the rules and it states that straffing planes on the airfield is not allowed, on my first trip to combat box I waited until a plane was off the ground on its takeoff run (assume wheels up) and shot him down, this led to me being banned if this is correct some one needs to better define the rules but also that seems a little petty.

Are you sure you read the rules? Because you killed someone before they took off:

https://combatbox.net/en/sortie/log/467574/?tour=20

 

Ban = earned. Enjoy your vacay! When you come back, consider not vulching people on takeoff and strafing active fields, and it's totally easy to avoid this.

Edited by 69th_Bazzer

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On 3/20/2020 at 4:14 PM, III./JG7-MarkWilhelmsson said:

Does battle for Kalinin have a more accurate Eastern front plane set, or does it include Mustangs, Tempests, and P38s? 

 

Kalinin does not include the late war stuff (no P51, P38, Tempest, K4, D9 or 262). It's intended as a bit of a change of pace from all the super lethal super fast stuff we have in a lot of the maps.

 

On 3/20/2020 at 4:51 PM, CIA_DrJet said:

I'm trying to download Stalingrad Scramble map and it takes forever. Is there any alternative way to download it?

Best,

DrJet

 

Probably a server problem. The maps are only about one megabyte (compressed) and we have commercial hosting in New York, so it should be a fast download. Sometimes a 'stuck' server can look like a download problem.

 

On 3/21/2020 at 2:06 AM, =[V]P=vad-asz said:

Good news and where is the Operation Paravane map ?

 

It's not in the rotation this week, but we know people like it and will bring it back in future weeks (just not sure exactly when).

 

1 hour ago, JG51_BlackC5 said:

I have read the rules and it states that straffing planes on the airfield is not allowed, on my first trip to combat box I waited until a plane was off the ground on its takeoff run (assume wheels up) and shot him down, this led to me being banned if this is correct some one needs to better define the rules but also that seems a little petty.

 

You shot the guy so close to the ground the server registered him as still on the ground. Maybe do your vulching a little further from the airfield in future, other pilots won't be able to complain about that.

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12 hours ago, JG51_BlackC5 said:

... I waited until a plane was off the ground on its takeoff run (assume wheels up) and shot him down...

Certain rules should not need to be written and you will never progress with such pitiful strategies.

It's a simulator of air combats played between friends sharing a same game. It's not a simulator against the fair-play. Fight with honor is the best way for all to have fun long time, firstly for you.

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You guys know Bodenplatte was basically a giant 1000 plane vulch mission right? And the allied airforces basically had entire units that pretty much did nothing but vulch every single day. The complaining about vulching is what is pitiful. Its a legit tactic. By vulching heavily, you can sometimes prevent numerous enemy aircraft from defending their team's objectives. In other servers I've had half a dozen planes tied up at an airfield for 5+ minutes by vulching which enabled my team's bombers to destroy a target without being harassed. I would like to strongly suggest that the admin team reconsider having attacking enemy aircraft on the ground be illegal; I believe vulching to be a legitimate tactic for preventing the enemy from accomplishing and also defending objectives.

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Posted (edited)

Can't you understand that such practices make empty servers?

There is no interest in doing it apart from satisfying the noobs and incompetents who cannot make kills otherwise.

The server does not aim to reproduce exactly what history has known but to bring fun to the greatest number of us.

Jump on an other server if you want to shoot planes on the ground, here it is prohibited.

Edited by Otto_bann

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1 hour ago, III./JG7-MarkWilhelmsson said:

You guys know Bodenplatte was basically a giant 1000 plane vulch mission right? And the allied airforces basically had entire units that pretty much did nothing but vulch every single day. The complaining about vulching is what is pitiful. Its a legit tactic. By vulching heavily, you can sometimes prevent numerous enemy aircraft from defending their team's objectives. In other servers I've had half a dozen planes tied up at an airfield for 5+ minutes by vulching which enabled my team's bombers to destroy a target without being harassed. I would like to strongly suggest that the admin team reconsider having attacking enemy aircraft on the ground be illegal; I believe vulching to be a legitimate tactic for preventing the enemy from accomplishing and also defending objectives.

Would you say the real war was fun for the pilots participating? Because that is the objective here - a fun game. Its become a cliche at this point to say that if we wanted real historical accuracy the axis would have no fuel and be outnumbered 10 to 1 - that doesn't sound very engaging to me. People pick and choose the realism they insist on, so if we are going to do so we should err on the side of a fun and challenging experience for the players.

 

It is already acceptable to shoot down any plane that has its wheels off the ground. If you want to loiter around the airfield and kill every poor bugger who lifts a couple inches off the ground you can already do that without being able to strafe the spawning areas and taxiways for 'kills'. 

In fact in terms of tying up enemy planes its probably better to kill them just after they get off the ground, as you just wasted 5 minutes of player time letting them run up their engine and takeoff, and they've occupied the runway while doing so, slowing everything down. If you kill them while they are starting their engine they can respawn faster.

Anyway, vulching makes the game un-fun for most people, so I think we shouldn't do it. 
 

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1 hour ago, Otto_bann said:

Can't you understand that such practices make empty servers?

There is no interest in doing it apart from satisfying the noobs and incompetents who cannot make kills otherwise.

The server does not aim to reproduce exactly what history has known but to bring fun to the greatest number of us.

Jump on an other server if you want to shoot planes on the ground, here it is prohibited.

 

There are other servers that do not restrict vulching as far as I know and some of them are loaded with players almost all the time. 

 

I don't personally vulch, so it's pointless trying to tell me to go elsewhere if I want to vulch. What I'm sick of is people constantly whining and moaning about it. If it happens, it happens; big whoop.

1 hour ago, RedKestrel said:

Would you say the real war was fun for the pilots participating? Because that is the objective here - a fun game. Its become a cliche at this point to say that if we wanted real historical accuracy the axis would have no fuel and be outnumbered 10 to 1 - that doesn't sound very engaging to me. People pick and choose the realism they insist on, so if we are going to do so we should err on the side of a fun and challenging experience for the players.

 

It is already acceptable to shoot down any plane that has its wheels off the ground. If you want to loiter around the airfield and kill every poor bugger who lifts a couple inches off the ground you can already do that without being able to strafe the spawning areas and taxiways for 'kills'. 

In fact in terms of tying up enemy planes its probably better to kill them just after they get off the ground, as you just wasted 5 minutes of player time letting them run up their engine and takeoff, and they've occupied the runway while doing so, slowing everything down. If you kill them while they are starting their engine they can respawn faster.

Anyway, vulching makes the game un-fun for most people, so I think we shouldn't do it. 
 

 

I'm all about axis being outnumbered. I enjoy it very much so when they are. Also, I highly doubt anyone in the game ever takes full fuel. Most of the people I play with don't even take full fuel for a 109 even though it pretty much has the shortest range of all.

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I agree with RedKestrel on this.  You can camp the airfields.  You can shoot down as many as you want one inch off the ground.  This is not Spits vs 109s where you can't be withing 10k of the base or get banned.  I like the way Combat Box has it.  Best of both worlds.  You can camp the spawn base if you are that sort and once the plane is in the air it is fair game.  And everyone gets to at least scramble before getting shot at by said campers!  Good job Combat Box!

 

See you cheapy base campers when i'm one inch off the ground.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, CIA_Elanski said:

... This is not Spits vs 109s where you can't be withing 10k of the base or get banned...

It's good for you too, because you would often be banned :))

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8 hours ago, III./JG7-MarkWilhelmsson said:

I would like to strongly suggest that the admin team reconsider having attacking enemy aircraft on the ground be illegal; I believe vulching to be a legitimate tactic for preventing the enemy from accomplishing and also defending objectives.

 

It will 100% categorically never happen. Every member of the admin team dislikes vulching and being vulched, and it has proven to be overwhelmingly considered an un-fun thing to have happen by most of our playerbase. If I might make a recommendation, turning off the in-game HUD hides away chat messages with player complaints and provides a small FPS boost.

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Posted (edited)
On ‎3‎/‎22‎/‎2020 at 8:43 PM, 71st_AH_Barnacles said:

 

From their rules....

 

 "These rules are not comprehensive. Admins reserve the right to use their own judgement rather than a big rulebook. Don't be a d**k and we'll all get along fine."

 

Doesn't seem that cryptic.

 

 

https://combatbox.net/en/sortie/log/467574/?tour=20 also on this guy's sortie who you shot down, it doesn't say he took off.

what you call being a d!@k is very subjective, as the leader of JG51 we were strafed on our field during takeoff we group up and fly over to enemy air field and when we get there find 4 aircraft sitting on the runway, I issue orders to squad not to strafe sitting aircraft and wait until they are wheels up to shoot  them, we do that and this happens. no one being a D!@k here but you. if the rules say anything other than that they are fair game after wheels up then there might be an argument.

he was off the runway and cleared a structure so I would assume that he is wheels up how the server classifies that I do not know.

23 hours ago, Alonzo said:

 

Kalinin does not include the late war stuff (no P51, P38, Tempest, K4, D9 or 262). It's intended as a bit of a change of pace from all the super lethal super fast stuff we have in a lot of the maps.

 

 

Probably a server problem. The maps are only about one megabyte (compressed) and we have commercial hosting in New York, so it should be a fast download. Sometimes a 'stuck' server can look like a download problem.

 

 

It's not in the rotation this week, but we know people like it and will bring it back in future weeks (just not sure exactly when).

 

 

You shot the guy so close to the ground the server registered him as still on the ground. Maybe do your vulching a little further from the airfield in future, other pilots won't be able to complain about that.

fair enough the new rules will read "do not engage enemy with in ? km of their airfield?

also does this also apply to bombing an airfield?

11 hours ago, Otto_bann said:

Certain rules should not need to be written and you will never progress with such pitiful strategies.

It's a simulator of air combats played between friends sharing a same game. It's not a simulator against the fair-play. Fight with honor is the best way for all to have fun long time, firstly for you.

are there any other rules that you would like to add since you are the judge of honor and what is and is not a pitiful strategy?

we have rule to define what is and is not acceptable, in this case the rules call it fair game.

9 hours ago, III./JG7-MarkWilhelmsson said:

You guys know Bodenplatte was basically a giant 1000 plane vulch mission right? And the allied airforces basically had entire units that pretty much did nothing but vulch every single day. The complaining about vulching is what is pitiful. Its a legit tactic. By vulching heavily, you can sometimes prevent numerous enemy aircraft from defending their team's objectives. In other servers I've had half a dozen planes tied up at an airfield for 5+ minutes by vulching which enabled my team's bombers to destroy a target without being harassed. I would like to strongly suggest that the admin team reconsider having attacking enemy aircraft on the ground be illegal; I believe vulching to be a legitimate tactic for preventing the enemy from accomplishing and also defending objectives.

thanks I tend to agree, but my real point is that the rules as I read them say what I did is ok. the ban on me does not  matter in the overall picture, the question that I was asking is what should my squad expect in the future if we are making combat box a regular part of our squad night and we can expect more rules to be pulled from the air we may need to plan on going someplace else.

 

BTW the people calling me a D!@k for bringing this up are not helping.

8 hours ago, RedKestrel said:

Would you say the real war was fun for the pilots participating? Because that is the objective here - a fun game. Its become a cliche at this point to say that if we wanted real historical accuracy the axis would have no fuel and be outnumbered 10 to 1 - that doesn't sound very engaging to me. People pick and choose the realism they insist on, so if we are going to do so we should err on the side of a fun and challenging experience for the players.

 

It is already acceptable to shoot down any plane that has its wheels off the ground. If you want to loiter around the airfield and kill every poor bugger who lifts a couple inches off the ground you can already do that without being able to strafe the spawning areas and taxiways for 'kills'. 

In fact in terms of tying up enemy planes its probably better to kill them just after they get off the ground, as you just wasted 5 minutes of player time letting them run up their engine and takeoff, and they've occupied the runway while doing so, slowing everything down. If you kill them while they are starting their engine they can respawn faster.

Anyway, vulching makes the game un-fun for most people, so I think we shouldn't do it. 
 

ok again fair enough, in this case the air plane was at the end of the their takeoff run and in the air to the best of my ability to judge it, not on a taxiway or spawning area. if the rules are no vulching I'm ok with that but I would suggest that the rules need to be made clearer.

2 hours ago, CIA_Elanski said:

I agree with RedKestrel on this.  You can camp the airfields.  You can shoot down as many as you want one inch off the ground.  This is not Spits vs 109s where you can't be withing 10k of the base or get banned.  I like the way Combat Box has it.  Best of both worlds.  You can camp the spawn base if you are that sort and once the plane is in the air it is fair game.  And everyone gets to at least scramble before getting shot at by said campers!  Good job Combat Box!

 

See you cheapy base campers when i'm one inch off the ground.

 

 

lol hi Elanski

Edited by JG51_BlackC5
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Talon_ said:

 

It will 100% categorically never happen. Every member of the admin team dislikes vulching and being vulched, and it has proven to be overwhelmingly considered an un-fun thing to have happen by most of our playerbase. If I might make a recommendation, turning off the in-game HUD hides away chat messages with player complaints and provides a small FPS boost.

I would agree with this, I don't really like vulching or being vulched but if I'm escorting bombers for low level attack on an enemy airbase I'm not going to let them get into the air to shoot down my bombers. so the rules say they are fair game once wheels up and that is what I did. in the end I just read and try to follow the rules as written and in this case they are confusing.

we understood that the air field is a legit. target is that incorrect?

On ‎3‎/‎22‎/‎2020 at 9:18 PM, 69th_Bazzer said:

Are you sure you read the rules? Because you killed someone before they took off:

https://combatbox.net/en/sortie/log/467574/?tour=20

 

Ban = earned. Enjoy your vacay! When you come back, consider not vulching people on takeoff and strafing active fields, and it's totally easy to avoid this.

define wheels up (that is the wording in the rules) to me he was wheels up. and to be clear we were attacking the air field and as I understand it that is a legit target. we made it a point not to hit sitting targets per the rules, also your attitude is not helpful.

Edited by JG51_BlackC5
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1 hour ago, JG51_BlackC5 said:

... but if I'm escorting bombers for low level attack on an enemy airbase I'm not going to let them get into the air to shoot down my bombers...

 

I don't think there's any point in attacking spawn airfields if you want your team to win the map, they don't count as objectives I believe.

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35 minutes ago, Birdman said:

 

I don't think there's any point in attacking spawn airfields if you want your team to win the map, they don't count as objectives I believe.

now that would be good information, is it true?

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3 hours ago, JG51_BlackC5 said:

now that would be good information, is it true?

 

Yes this is true.

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7 hours ago, JG51_BlackC5 said:

are there any other rules that you would like to add since you are the judge of honor and what is and is not a pitiful strategy?

we have rule to define what is and is not acceptable, in this case the rules call it fair game.

 

Yes Mister the lawyer of the vulching : for exactly the same reasons there were  shoot on parachutes but maybe it already exists. And to specify that not to shot the planes on the ground is not limited to the spawn bases but everywhere on the ground : I was shot again when I was ditched in the wild few time ago (maybe you will tell me this guy wanted probably to be sure that I can't retake off immediately from my ditch to try to intercept its bombers)...

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Posted (edited)

@ Otto_Bann yes mister small mind, I'm not getting much from my conversations with you so i think you and i are done.

6 hours ago, Talon_ said:

 

Yes this is true.

this is confirmed?

If so i apologize, we went to that base to bomb it and if it is not a legit. target that was a bad call on my part.

we just came off of a coconuts server where the air bases are legit targets so we expected them to be targets on this server also.

Edited by JG51_BlackC5
correction

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@JG51_BlackC5
To clarify again, Player airfields are not a valid target in terms of winning the map. In addition, attacking (we realize the website still says "strafing", will be fixed) players while on the ground is prohibited. As soon as they leave the ground, they are fair game as by current rules.

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Initially I would like to thank the CB team for their work, which should not be less.

Many red side mates and I would like to know and claim for a decent number of Tempest on the maps, mainly Eindhoven, B-25 Mitchell, Bridges and Scheldt.

It is quite disheartening to compare and see that on these maps we have little more than 10 Tempest, that  in the first half hour of the map ended, while the blue side has 262 and / or dozens of K-4 and D-9, and when it has a reasonable number, they are always concentrated at the bottom of the map, like Closing the Ruhr and Y-29 maps.

In short, pilots and squadrons that prefer to fly from Tempest are clearly being harmed.

I ask the team to pls reflect on this situation and increase the number of Tempest on these maps, and relocate them in a more balanced way.

Tks

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1 hour ago, Psyrion said:

@JG51_BlackC5
To clarify again, Player airfields are not a valid target in terms of winning the map. In addition, attacking (we realize the website still says "strafing", will be fixed) players while on the ground is prohibited. As soon as they leave the ground, they are fair game as by current rules.

Thank you for the information.

cheers!

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, JG51_BlackC5 said:

I would agree with this, I don't really like vulching or being vulched but if I'm escorting bombers for low level attack on an enemy airbase I'm not going to let them get into the air to shoot down my bombers. so the rules say they are fair game once wheels up and that is what I did. in the end I just read and try to follow the rules as written and in this case they are confusing.

we understood that the air field is a legit. target is that incorrect?

define wheels up (that is the wording in the rules) to me he was wheels up. and to be clear we were attacking the air field and as I understand it that is a legit target. we made it a point not to hit sitting targets per the rules, also your attitude is not helpful.

Not my place to judge, I wasn't there and I'm not an admin or anything. That said I note you hit a static parked plane as you were killing a player, albeit that one was in the air:

 

https://combatbox.net/en/sortie/log/467536/?tour=20

 

I would just say, when you attack someone that close to parked planes at an active airfield, you are really asking to 'accidentally' kill someone on the ground, and thus break the rule. Far easier just to only shoot stuff in the air and off the base. This is not meant to be any kind of rule interpretation, just practical input. Your stats and revenge-satisfaction-factor should still be just fine following this advice, and as others have pointed out you do more harm to the other side if you give them a few seconds airborne before shooting them down.

 

Also, as a prosecutor I would just note whenever a person faced with overwhelming evidence pivots from 'I didn't do it' to 'so what if i did, the rule is stupid', it's not a very effective defense strategy.

Edited by 69th_Bazzer

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4 hours ago, =ABr=422nd_RedSkull said:

Initially I would like to thank the CB team for their work, which should not be less.

Many red side mates and I would like to know and claim for a decent number of Tempest on the maps, mainly Eindhoven, B-25 Mitchell, Bridges and Scheldt.

It is quite disheartening to compare and see that on these maps we have little more than 10 Tempest, that  in the first half hour of the map ended, while the blue side has 262 and / or dozens of K-4 and D-9, and when it has a reasonable number, they are always concentrated at the bottom of the map, like Closing the Ruhr and Y-29 maps.

In short, pilots and squadrons that prefer to fly from Tempest are clearly being harmed.

I ask the team to pls reflect on this situation and increase the number of Tempest on these maps, and relocate them in a more balanced way.

Tks

 

There shouldn't be more Tempests if we are trying to be somewhat historically accurate. Same with the K4. When looking at unit statistics, many sometimes only had 1 K4 for every 3 G14s. A more realistic plane set would have 1/4 of 109s be K4s and 3/4 be G14. Additionally, the 262 is far too restricted. In reality, sometimes there were more 262s in the air than K4s. Many times JG7 had 30+ 262s in the air at the same time several days out of the week. Also, they ran on regular fuel as well as synthesized jet fuel and diesel. There should be no fuel train needed for them to spawn on a map. 

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Initially I would like to thank the CB team for their work, which should not be less.

Many blue side mates and I would like to know and claim for a decent number of 262 on the maps, mainly Eindhoven, B-25 Mitchell, Bridges and Scheldt.

It is quite disheartening to compare and see that on these maps we have little more than 2-3 262's, that  in the first half hour of the map ended, while the red side has Tempests and / or dozens of P51s and Spits, and when it has a reasonable number, they are always concentrated at the bottom of the map, like Closing the Ruhr and Y-29 maps.

In short, pilots and squadrons that prefer to fly from 262 are clearly being harmed.

I ask the team to pls reflect on this situation and increase the number of 262 on these maps, and relocate them in a more balanced way.

Tks

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

🙄

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, 69th_Bazzer said:

Not my place to judge, I wasn't there and I'm not an admin or anything. That said I note you hit a static parked plane as you were killing a player, albeit that one was in the air:

 

https://combatbox.net/en/sortie/log/467536/?tour=20

 

I would just say, when you attack someone that close to parked planes at an active airfield, you are really asking to 'accidentally' kill someone on the ground, and thus break the rule. Far easier just to only shoot stuff in the air and off the base. This is not meant to be any kind of rule interpretation, just practical input. Your stats and revenge-satisfaction-factor should still be just fine following this advice, and as others have pointed out you do more harm to the other side if you give them a few seconds airborne before shooting them down.

 

Also, as a prosecutor I would just note whenever a person faced with overwhelming evidence pivots from 'I didn't do it' to 'so what if i did, the rule is stupid', it's not a very effective defense strategy.

no pivot involved, and the overwhelming evidence you site also points in my favor in that the guy was taking off if you read the sorte report i did like 6% damage and then got credit for 94% at the end where he crashed, so you can tell he was moving AND i STILL CONTEND THAT THIS CONSTITUTES WHEELS UP.

As to the rules being stupid I have never said anything like that I have contended that my actions were in line with the written rules and have disagreed with the application of said rules. 

the thing I have backed off from was  that we did target the airfield and dropped bombs on it and it seams that on this server this is not legit. on other servers it is legit.

and again we had bombers that were attacking the field and I do not see that letting the enemy have a free shot at our bombers is reasonable just because they are near the field.

 

this is what I gather is the rules for this server and am fine with it but the written rules are confusing at best and contradictory to this interpretation at worst. 

I guess that my take away from all of this is that on this server do not attack the active airfields, but i would like to suggest that the written rules are changed to reflect this.

Edited by JG51_BlackC5

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Posted (edited)

One BAN for pilot Ala13_MOSCU Please. First he shot down a spitfire in front of me. 10 minutes later, he started shooting at me, I wrote him several times he is firing friendly he didnt react. It was over our bomber base, There were no enemies, flak was not active. Thanks

 

https://combatbox.net/en/sortie/log/472159/?tour=20

Edited by CSW_Hot_Dog

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Posted (edited)

I'm not entirely sure why this is even a debate? The point of the server rules is to foster a fun and engaging environment for people to enjoy flying their WWII aircraft in. It's not a 1-to-1 deathmatch simulation of the war. Perhaps you might benefit from flying in another server with more lenient rules? Just some food for thought.

 

*edit*

 

The rules do not actually state that bombing an airfield is not a valid tactic. Given the stark difference between flying at 3,000m+ and level bombing a facility and sitting on the deck in a fighter physically shooting aircraft, I actually do think the rules need to be more explicitly clear regarding this bit.

Edited by Schwieger

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This isn't a debate. It's not a democracy. Flying on Combat Box is a privilege, not a right. The server was created through many hundreds of hours of volunteer efforts with hardware funded by a wonderful group of donors, and continues to be funded through our very lovely, very awesome Patreon supporters.

 

As an admin team, we strive to create a fun environment where players can enjoy their flights, take part in interesting, strategic missions, find challenging opponents to engage with, and develop their skills as pilots. Being shot on the ground (or close to it) is not fun. Player airfields are not an objective. If the people shooting others who are on the ground or very close to the ground moved even a few kilometers from the airfield we wouldn't have these complaints. AAA is ineffective and we can't magically make it useful or a deterrent. So we have these rules. Don't attack players who are on the ground. Don't be a dick. Having a squad of four attacking players ten feet off the ground is, in the opinion of the admin team, being a dick.

 

I'm not going to spend my time arguing with people on the internet. I wrote the ban hammer script. It works really well. Haluter wrote the UI for it. That works really well too. I gotta tell you, I really enjoy issuing bans. I love getting an excuse to use that thing. So. Either quit being dicks, or enjoy your vacations from the server. If you partake in behavior that makes you think, "Am I being a dick?" maybe just don't do that behavior.

 

Combat Box is not a democracy. It's more like a benevolent dictatorship. Please enjoy the server and allow others to do so also.

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22 hours ago, JG51_BlackC5 said:

@ Otto_Bann yes mister small mind, I'm not getting much from my conversations with you so i think you and i are done.

Exactly mister hypocrite, you will never succeed in making me believe that vulching is anything else than search easy kills. Your clumsy explanations are only pretexts and bullshit.

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16 hours ago, III./JG7-MarkWilhelmsson said:

 

There shouldn't be more Tempests if we are trying to be somewhat historically accurate. Same with the K4. When looking at unit statistics, many sometimes only had 1 K4 for every 3 G14s. A more realistic plane set would have 1/4 of 109s be K4s and 3/4 be G14. Additionally, the 262 is far too restricted. In reality, sometimes there were more 262s in the air than K4s. Many times JG7 had 30+ 262s in the air at the same time several days out of the week. Also, they ran on regular fuel as well as synthesized jet fuel and diesel. There should be no fuel train needed for them to spawn on a map. 

That's a nice balanced view of the approach to plane sets. I do find it frustrating when I chose to go up in one of the more 'representative' planes like a 190 a8 or a p47 and sods law means every aircraft you encounter is a 11lb Tempest or a DC engine k4, so the mechanics like keeping the numbers of Tempests low are good. 

The 262 is a bit of a difficult one to handle, and the admin's have to strike a bit of a balance here. Of course it's a fuzzy area because everyone's opinions vary a bit, but they have made the right compromises with regards to jets IMO, but I do recognise that you're correct in your assertion that 262s weren't *that* rare a some stage in certain theatres in the war. (but those 30+ 262s in the air will have been VERY busy, likely facing several 100s of B17/B24s +p51 escorts)

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15 hours ago, Willy__ said:

Initially I would like to thank the CB team for their work, which should not be less.

Many blue side mates and I would like to know and claim for a decent number of 262 on the maps, mainly Eindhoven, B-25 Mitchell, Bridges and Scheldt.

It is quite disheartening to compare and see that on these maps we have little more than 2-3 262's, that  in the first half hour of the map ended, while the red side has Tempests and / or dozens of P51s and Spits, and when it has a reasonable number, they are always concentrated at the bottom of the map, like Closing the Ruhr and Y-29 maps.

In short, pilots and squadrons that prefer to fly from 262 are clearly being harmed.

I ask the team to pls reflect on this situation and increase the number of 262 on these maps, and relocate them in a more balanced way.

Tks

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

🙄

 

Lol this is hilarious. Comparing a Spitfire to a 262 lol. Cmon man ... You can do better than that.

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Just now, Riksen said:

 

Lol this is hilarious. Comparing a Spitfire to a 262 lol. Cmon man ... You can do better than that.

Even a Tempest is a real reach. 

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Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, Riksen said:

 

Lol this is hilarious. Comparing a Spitfire to a 262 lol. Cmon man ... You can do better than that.

To be fair I think willy was just lampooning an earlier post. Not that I am endorsing or disagreeing with either.

Edited by 71st_AH_Barnacles
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15 hours ago, Schwieger said:

I'm not entirely sure why this is even a debate? The point of the server rules is to foster a fun and engaging environment for people to enjoy flying their WWII aircraft in. It's not a 1-to-1 deathmatch simulation of the war. Perhaps you might benefit from flying in another server with more lenient rules? Just some food for thought.

 

*edit*

 

The rules do not actually state that bombing an airfield is not a valid tactic. Given the stark difference between flying at 3,000m+ and level bombing a facility and sitting on the deck in a fighter physically shooting aircraft, I actually do think the rules need to be more explicitly clear regarding this bit.

you are missing the context.

squad night, looking for target, target decided to be air field (this is the problem), group up low level bombers and fighter cover, put 1 in the air to cover form up from base attackers (and one came in and lawn darted into field), everyone else takes off, we all fly to air field where there happen to be 4 on the end of the run way, order everyone not to shoot sitting aircraft but not allow them to take off, bombers start bombing and cover kills everything that tries to get in the air.

that is how we run a base attack, problem is that we have read the rules and the rules do not state "no attacking the active airfields" they say "once wheels up they are fair game" and we try to comply but there is a different set of rules being enforced and i get a ban for killing a plane that is taking off.

I do not care about the ban, I care about the application of the rules because if the people enforcing the rule do not care what the written rule are then we as a squad can expect a lot of BS in the future from more unwritten rules and that is a a moral killer.

at no point have I asked for the ban on me to be lifted, I expressed my concern that the enforced rule is inconsistent with the written rules, the responses have run from you have no honer to it is our privilege to make the rules up as we see fit.

so peace out and cheers!

 

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50 minutes ago, JG51_BlackC5 said:

... squad night, looking for target, target decided to be air field (this is the problem) ...

 

No that is not the problem. Air fields are possible targets, even though they will have a much lower impact in the mission victory condition than attacking actual targets as per briefing. The problem is that you chose to attack a plane that was not even "wheels up" and the rules clearly state:

 

Attacking enemy players on the ground is not allowed. While airfields should not be considered "safe", being killed while your engine spools up is not fun. Once players are in the air they are valid targets. Player airfields are not mission objectives.

 

You attacked a player that had not completely taken-off yet and, therefore, violated the rule. The rule is pretty clear and I'm not sure why you keep insisting that the rule is not somehow open to interpretation. The rule is not inconsistent either. "Once wheels up" and "Off the ground" are basically the same thing so, if you want to attack pilots taking off, at least have the decency to wait for them to take off. That is what the rule is saying. What is confusing about that?

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Not trying to sound like a jerk but it seems the vast majority of the player base is able to understand and follow the concept of not attacking players on the ground.

 

Not sure it's worth getting the rulers out and counting how many inches between wheels and ground. Don't vulch on the airfield. If you absolutely need to, wait until initial climb.

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The legend of Y29  mission its about an airfield attack.

In this case , are we allowed to shoot planes on the runway?

 

On January 1st 1945 the Luftwaffe launched Operation Bodenplatte, an all out attack on the Allied front line airfields. The Fw 190s and Bf 109s of JG-11 arrived at Asch just as the 487th FS of the 352nd FG were rolling down the runway; the ensuing battle came to be known as the Legend of Y-29. The pilots of the 487th Fighter Squadron took off under fire, and with the help of eight P-47s of the 366th (already in the air), the 487th shot down 23 German fighters out of 61 attackers. Several pilots made 'Ace' status that day; two had four confirmed kills apiece. For their performance the 487th received the only Distinguished Unit Citation given to a fighter squadron in the European theater.

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1 hour ago, JG51_BlackC5 said:

you are missing the context.

squad night, looking for target, target decided to be air field (this is the problem), group up low level bombers and fighter cover, put 1 in the air to cover form up from base attackers (and one came in and lawn darted into field), everyone else takes off, we all fly to air field where there happen to be 4 on the end of the run way, order everyone not to shoot sitting aircraft but not allow them to take off, bombers start bombing and cover kills everything that tries to get in the air.

that is how we run a base attack, problem is that we have read the rules and the rules do not state "no attacking the active airfields" they say "once wheels up they are fair game" and we try to comply but there is a different set of rules being enforced and i get a ban for killing a plane that is taking off.

I do not care about the ban, I care about the application of the rules because if the people enforcing the rule do not care what the written rule are then we as a squad can expect a lot of BS in the future from more unwritten rules and that is a a moral killer.

at no point have I asked for the ban on me to be lifted, I expressed my concern that the enforced rule is inconsistent with the written rules, the responses have run from you have no honer to it is our privilege to make the rules up as we see fit.

so peace out and cheers!

 

While airfields are targets in some missions, most of the time active airfields are not targets, and destroying anything on them contributes nothing to the mission outcome, other than hitting players on takeoff or taxi.

The text of the rules is "Attacking enemy players on the ground is not allowed.". This obviously includes bombing, strafing, rockets, etc. You and your squad conducting a bombing attack against an active airfield and "order everyone not to shoot sitting aircraft but not allow them to take off" is a clear violation of the rules. 

So unless the airfield you are attacking is a designated target in the mission, by running an airfield attack like you just described all you've accomplished is to break the rules.

 

6 minutes ago, Birdman said:

Not trying to sound like a jerk but it seems the vast majority of the player base is able to understand and follow the concept of not attacking players on the ground.

 

Not sure it's worth getting the rulers out and counting how many inches between wheels and ground. Don't vulch on the airfield. If you absolutely need to, wait until initial climb.

Rules lawyers are the bane of any fun game - tabletop or video game. You can spend all day trying to build perfect rules with no loopholes and people will creatively reinterpret them to their own advantages (and usually everyone else's disadvantage).
 

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Posted (edited)

The fact is that the only thing the admins care about is that the stats page sortie log must read: 

 

Player X takes off before Player Y damages/destroys Player X. 

 

or 

 

Player Y damages/destroys Player X before Player X lands.

 

The sortie log and player recordings, if there are any, are the only real evidence they have available when reviewing a claim.  Saying "I couldn't take off from X airfield because I'd get shot down before my gear was up and locked", doesn't cut it.  Proving you were on a takeoff roll and shot before your wheels left the ground does, as well as being shot after your wheels have touched the ground again.  

It applies even if you bounce on landing and they happen to catch you with the wheels off the ground.  I'm sure the timing would have to be very lucky on a kill like that though.  (And you might want to be recording before you attempt it.)

 

If you've managed to pressure an entire opponent spawn airfield into choosing not to takeoff from or land there....  more power to ye. 

Edited by 69th_Mobile_BBQ

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1 hour ago, SCG_motoadve said:

The legend of Y29  mission its about an airfield attack.

In this case , are we allowed to shoot planes on the runway?

 

The objective airfields (Y29, Y32, B78, B80, B90) are not the spawn airfields.

 

You're fine shooting at the AI on the runway of these airfields but if you go straffe the spawn fields "but muh Bodenplattuh" is probably not gonna cut it...

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When you aim to balance a multiplayer map based on real-life/historical absolute total numbers of airplanes at any given time, you run into two problems.

One is that you're dealing with a game where "fairness" matter to the extent you need people to play both sides and return to the server with some regularity to keep the server going. In real life, the goal is not fairness but to overwhelm the enemy so as achieve air superiority. The idea, historically, is to be as "unfair" as possible with numbers in your favor.

The other is that if you say there were "X number of 262s present on date Y", that may be true in the absolute historical total sense, but that number does not exist in a vacuum. If you have, say, 50 262s on a given day, then you also have to consider how many P-51s, P-47s, etc. If you took proportional historical numbers and applied them to the western front, circa 1944-45, you'd end up with a server where a strong majority have to play allied because, historically speaking, the Luftwaffe was on its back foot by the end of the war (excellent technological developments on the German side notwithstanding).

The concept of historical numbering is really tempting because it seems like it gives you a potential "realism boost" when you go to build a multiplayer mission (or a flight sim, for that matter), but you end up having to then put your thumb on the scales (at least a little) anyway so that the game is not too one-sided based on weight of numbers.

And then you have the issue that certain planes draw people into the server and the missions. Crimean Offensive is a good example - lots of people fly out of the southern (US Planes) airbase because there's a preference for those planes over the Russian types for many online pilots.

I have to give a salute to the mission builders behind the missions at Combat Box because it's not an easy task.

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