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3 hours ago, Talon_ said:

 

Finally got my admin hacks up and running long enough to kill an Me262, my first ever! 😄  

 

 

Nice! Finally someone posts a video of killing a 262 instead of killing stuff WITH it.
/get that man an ice-cold cup of 150 octane, stat!
//it's got what spitfires crave!!!

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From I Fly Central, shot on Combat Box. Some great camerawork here:

 

 

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Last week I had my first confrontation against Me-262 jets. The Blue Team advanced with three jets and an large escort of 190D and 109G14. We were outnumbered, was hard!

 

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Posted (edited)

Any particular reason why 262 is restricted to 1? Is this all maps or am i only having a bad luck trying to find one to pew pew? 

 

Neither people who like to fly these planes, nor the people who like to shoot these things down (in non berloga environment) are happy i am sure. And it just creates this "grab it first" mentality and antagonistic team spirit.

 

Have server admin considered just letting axis have more of them and see how it goes? (unless ofc you have and i have missed it)

 

Edited by CptSiddy

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Posted (edited)
On 6/15/2019 at 12:46 AM, Alonzo said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hey all, thanks for commenting on this. We needed to do something quickly because the previous situation (six 262s available at map start, plus 6 per hour) was obviously not fair and reds weren't logging in to fight. The current setup should be that on maps where the 262 is available (Kalinin, Paravane, Eisenhammer) then one is available at map start and once it's used up that's it, until at least a certain number (I am not being specific, deliberately) of players join the red side and start flying. At that point the plane set should switch to having 3 x 262s available with several more per hour. If the switch to 3 is not occurring then that's a bug and I'll look into it.

 

If you're playing a map where you feel that the 262s should have opened up and they have not, please take a screen shot of the map screen and maybe the player list so I can look more closely. After the mission if you're able to find it on the missions list on the stats website, that would help too, as I can what everyone flew on that map.

 

Game balance is a tricky thing. Obviously people want a chance to fly the new plane, that's totally reasonable, but a coordinated squad with (say) one 262 and a couple of D9/K4's can absolutely dominate an airspace. We needed to do something to make it fairer. If I've overshot and now there's no 262s available then it's unintended and I'll check the map logic.

 

We are working on a map that's more directly designed to accommodate the 262, with mechanics that make the availability of the 262 more of an in-game thing, as well as targets that are more suited to the 262s primary roles, but since it's a new map it'll be a while before it's available.

 

Edit: I should also add that if a 262 is safely landed at the 262 airfield, it will become immediately available again, so there is a benefit in flying safe or nursing a wounded bird back to base. This is true whether the field has just one 262 available or an increased number.

 

@CptSiddy,

 

As above!

 

Regards

 

 

Edited by Haza

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, CptSiddy said:

Any particular reason why 262 is restricted to 1? Is this all maps or am i only having a bad luck trying to find one to pew pew? 

 

Neither people who like to fly these planes, nor the people who like to shoot these things down (in non berloga environment) are happy i am sure. And it just creates this "grab it first" mentality and antagonistic team spirit.

 

Have server admin considered just letting axis have more of them and see how it goes? (unless ofc you have and i have missed it)

 

Imo there should be around 8 max this is keeps it rare but also doesn't make it non existent. I actually enjoy running across jets when flying allies, it gets the blood flowing and is a bit of a challenge.

 

EDIT: Also, can't seem to join combat box. It keeps kicking me back to the server list no matter how many times I try. I can join other servers just fine.

Edited by Legioneod

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Posted (edited)
On 6/14/2019 at 5:46 PM, Alonzo said:

 

 

Game balance is a tricky thing. Obviously people want a chance to fly the new plane, that's totally reasonable, but a coordinated squad with (say) one 262 and a couple of D9/K4's can absolutely dominate an airspace. We needed to do something to make it fairer. If I've overshot and now there's no 262s available then it's unintended and I'll check the map logic.

 

 

This is a moot point, a co-ordinated squid can do that in spits just as easy. 

 

262 is fast and thats it. Once you know it is there, it is merely an annoyance, and not a threat. And with the current "ALARMA, 262 IN AIRSPACE", it is small wonder anyone gets any kills at all with that thing. D-9's and K-4 are far far scarier things to average allied pilots than 262. Restricting them alongside 262 makes sense, since operationally, Allied had far far more fighters and could produce far more fighters and fighter pilots (or bombers or tanks or ships... i mean the writing was on the wall). G-6 should be the workhorse of axis while the latest 109 models just entering mass production, if we go by the production numbers logic... 

 

but

 

If you fancy this as alternative timeline, would it not make sense that Herr Hortler in his high castle made it priority to spam more 262's and maybe D-9, and phase out the aging 109 out? It must be clear to anyone with pair of eyes that future belonged to jets.

Perhaps made more Bomber 262, so you can make locked 262 with mandatory bombs and other things to make it less appealing for air superiority and more appealing for ground pounding or bomber interception?  Even if empty of bombs and rockets, a 262 that goes 100kph slower than its sleeker, pylon free counterpart will put a massive wrench in aspiring jet-Hartmanns plans.

Edited by CptSiddy

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21 hours ago, CptSiddy said:

 

Have server admin considered just letting axis have more of them and see how it goes? (unless ofc you have and i have missed it)

 

 

So far we have been adjusting the number of 262s available since launch day and have found that they inversely correlate with player numbers - the more that are available, the fewer players log in. It seems the effect of 262s is simply to suppress Red logins - when we had unlimited 262s at first the server was often 3-4x as many Blue as Red.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Talon_ said:

 

So far we have been adjusting the number of 262s available since launch day and have found that they inversely correlate with player numbers - the more that are available, the fewer players log in. It seems the effect of 262s is simply to suppress Red logins - when we had unlimited 262s at first the server was often 3-4x as many Blue as Red.

 

Having some 262 available in locked bombing or RAM configurations can be a suitable middle ground? 


I think this effect is because people are shellshocked of jets, not because they are actually map winner. Have them encounter few neutered 262 to remove the jet fear...

Edited by CptSiddy

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22 minutes ago, CptSiddy said:

Having some 262 available in locked bombing or RAM configurations can be a suitable middle ground

 

They normally ditch the bombs on takeoff.

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Just now, Talon_ said:

 

They normally ditch the bombs on takeoff.

 

Yes, but they cant ditch the pylons or mounts. And that's a lot of parasitic drag for a sleek machine like this. 

 

 

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Just now, CptSiddy said:

 

Yes, but they cant ditch the pylons or mounts. And that's a lot of parasitic drag for a sleek machine like this. 

 

 

 

It's hard to appreciate the difference between a fighter that is 200kmh faster than you & a fighter that is 170kmh faster than you.

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, Talon_ said:

 

It's hard to appreciate the difference between a fighter that is 200kmh faster than you & a fighter that is 170kmh faster than you.

 

262 is not a fighter, it is an interceptor. If you fly it as a fighter, you get your arse handed to you in neat little ribbons. 

 

And yes, that small difference is why people don't take bombs, drop them on target and then go on killing people. It is speedy interceptor with lots of drawbacks. Speed and ability to dive fast is this thing only real advantage. It accelerates bad when slow, it accelerates even worse when high up and slow, and climbs very poorly after 6km. 

 

It is by no means omnipotent. This is why, having some neutered versions of it flying around and dying to allied pilots more often can remove this myth of invincibility. 

Or just make accounts like TAW does and tie the use rights for 262 to the account. Make some arbitrary rules of what hoops you have to jump trough to qualify for one and balance from there...

Edited by CptSiddy

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, CptSiddy said:

262 is fast and thats it. Once you know it is there, it is merely an annoyance, and not a threat. And with the current "ALARMA, 262 IN AIRSPACE", it is small wonder anyone gets any kills at all with that thing. D-9's and K-4 are far far scarier things to average allied pilots than 262.

 

You said it yourself - not only there are the 262s but many K4s and D9s which are more than match for current (ehem) Allied "plane-set".

Because of the pesky 9.5km contact visibility the 262 can almost "teleport" as it takes less than 1m to make the distance. That's less than 30s to spot one and react in any way. Every missed 262 is going to be fatal unless her driver messes up.

The only "cure" is to lift the poor combat/emergency limits of the Allied planes. Even if you are a skillful pilot you will get rundown in the P-47D after few minutes just because of that.

 

3 hours ago, Talon_ said:

So far we have been adjusting the number of 262s available since launch day and have found that they inversely correlate with player numbers - the more that are available, the fewer players log in. It seems the effect of 262s is simply to suppress Red logins - when we had unlimited 262s at first the server was often 3-4x as many Blue as Red.

 

Could you set the "unbreakable" flag (the one from custom options in QMB) somehow?

(it shouldn't stop the battle damage from occurring; only engines will not be able to seize)

Edited by Ehret

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Posted (edited)
On 6/23/2019 at 7:52 PM, CptSiddy said:

Any particular reason why 262 is restricted to 1? Is this all maps or am i only having a bad luck trying to find one to pew pew? 

 

Neither people who like to fly these planes, nor the people who like to shoot these things down (in non berloga environment) are happy i am sure. And it just creates this "grab it first" mentality and antagonistic team spirit.

 

Have server admin considered just letting axis have more of them and see how it goes? (unless ofc you have and i have missed it)

 

I’ll speak just for self. I love the Combat Box server, but if the day comes when there is more than 1 262 without something to match its capability i’m done. I fear the “increase 262 numbers” crowd arguement exists not for the benefit of the server or its gameplay but purely on selfish interest of individual pilots, in that they want to come into a late war theatre and fly one at will.

 

More 262’s will see less pilots flying.

 

My vote...don’t change a thing.

 

And..........I fly both sides regularly

Edited by TWC_Sp00k
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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, TWC_Sp00k said:

I fear the “increase 262 numbers” crowd arguement exists not for the benefit of the server or its gameplay but purely on selfish interest of individual pilots, in that they want to come into a late war theatre and fly one at will.

 

 

Heh, well, you can't project that on me, because i got proven history to fly mainly VVS. 

 

But because you tarred me with that brush, i will return the favor and assume that you lack the testicular fortitude to face 262 :crazy:

 

Now we are even. 

48 minutes ago, Ehret said:

 

 Because of the pesky 9.5km contact visibility the 262 can almost "teleport" as it takes less than 1m to make the distance. That's less than 30s to spot one and react in any way. Every missed 262 is going to be fatal unless her driver messes up.

 

Its almost like i had an argument and post and math and everything arguing this exact point, about the spotting distance being too short for jet era... odd that pilot anecdotes align with my predictions... somehow i feel vindicated. :biggrin: 

 

But even then, the 262 has the same issue, he has to spot enemy and line up to strike. 

 

 

As for the arguments "b.. but everyone will fly 262".... For pete's sake, it just came out and everyone want to try it out. It will calm down once people get their 262 rocks off. The real problem is, for any server really, is how to get people fly something else but the optimal plane. TAW does it by account tied planes, WoL does it by having poo early war planeset, meaning that inferior fighters had some perks that you could exploit... P-40 dives, Mig-3 is good at high up, yak is good at low alt scap and so on. Axis will be always limited with this mainly because they got a stunning variety of 109 and 190 and that's it. 

 

 

Edited by CptSiddy

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We´ll balance the Me262 numbers in such a way that the end result is fun for everyone. We´re experimenting with new map mechanics so people can actively affect 262 numbers on the server. Obviously it has to be limited somehow. How limited it has to be is something that has to be found out by trying things. 

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Talon_ said:

 

So far we have been adjusting the number of 262s available since launch day and have found that they inversely correlate with player numbers - the more that are available, the fewer players log in. It seems the effect of 262s is simply to suppress Red logins - when we had unlimited 262s at first the server was often 3-4x as many Blue as Red.

 

OK Talon - Statistics 101 "Correlation does not equal to causation". Remember that statement whenever someone throws a stat into a conversation.

 

The reason RED players are not joining maybe an issue with other factors, and not the aircraft that is available on the BLUE side. Let me toss some other reasons:

  • How many players and ratio of RED vs BLUE are flying on your server versus other servers with similar settings.
  • Number of aircraft (and mods available) for their "prefered" aircraft type available when they join your server versus other servers with similar settings.
  • How much time is left on your server when they join in relation to the above stated reasons.
  • What map is currently playing when they decide to join.

I (...and I seriously doubt others) have never checked  a server to see what aircraft the "other" side has available before joining. On the other hand, I have checked to see if the Bf 109s have "hood removed mod" available or if the late BF 109s have the 30mm cannons available.

Edited by JG7_X-Man

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3 minutes ago, JG7_X-Man said:

 

OK Talon - Statistics 101 "Correlation does not equal to causation". Remember that statement whenever someone throws a stat into a conversation.

 

The reason RED players are not joining maybe an issue with other factors, and not the aircraft that is available on the BLUE side. Let me toss some other reasons:

  • How many players and ratio of RED vs BLUE are flying on other servers with similar settings.
  • Number of aircraft (and mods available) for their "prefered" aircraft type are available when they join.
  • How much time is left on the server when they join in relation to the above stated reasons.
  • What map is currently playing when they decide to join.

I (...and I seriously doubt others) have never checked  a server to see what aircraft the "other" side has available before joining. On the other hand, I have checked to see if the Bf 109s have "hood removed mod" available or if the late BF 109s have the 30mm cannons available.

Correlation does not equal causation, but it does point a little finger and whisper "look over there!"

If you see a sudden drop in Allied side numbers immediately following the release of an aircraft that dwarfs them in performance, with which people are racking up insane kill numbers, do we really need a statistical analysis of what's happening? Looking at the mission stats, the drop-off in Allied players happened pretty much regardless of map type, other aircraft available or time of day. There's really no mods locked on any of the aircraft on CombatBox so there's no reason for that to impact people's decision to fly. Nothing stopping you from loading up a Jug with all the fixin's and going to town, other than a barrage of Mk108 shells. There were no new servers coming online to draw people away, TAW was already going strong so any drawing away of players there was already happening before the patch. 


 

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53 minutes ago, JG7_X-Man said:

The reason RED players are not joining maybe an issue with other factors, and not the aircraft that is available on the BLUE side. 

 

Nope, it's the 262. They tell us via the Discord channel, PMs and in this very thread.

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Very interesting! I would never had though the Me 262 would be that much of an issue.

Even at 700 Km/h Pe-2 gunners have not problem with them - I would think all the only thing RED pilots have to do it turn when the Swallow is in range.

 

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The ultimate aim of Combat Box doesn't really include Pe-2s if we can avoid it. Once we get the Western Europe map we will need to reduce the presence of Russian rides to maintain historicity. Right now they are mostly stand-ins as the game is not yet finished and the Allied planeset is only two-fifths complete.

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5 minutes ago, JG7_X-Man said:

Very interesting! I would never had though the Me 262 would be that much of an issue.

Even at 700 Km/h Pe-2 gunners have not problem with them - I would think all the only thing RED pilots have to do it turn when the Swallow is in range.

 

 

Yes, I found that works quite well (using this tactic), provided you are able to keep your eyes on them. I successfully evaded a 262 multiple times in a Spit, until I lost sight of it somewhere up high, then, BAM!

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8 minutes ago, JG7_X-Man said:

Very interesting! I would never had though the Me 262 would be that much of an issue.

Even at 700 Km/h Pe-2 gunners have not problem with them - I would think all the only thing RED pilots have to do it turn when the Swallow is in range.

 

You can only turn if you see it coming, which is harder due to the high closure speed of the 262.

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Well looks like you guys have a vision - hope it works out. I guess is no Me 262s online until the P-51 and Tempest come online. Which is why I think the Spit XIVe would be a great addition too!

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, JG7_X-Man said:

I guess is no Me 262s online until the P-51 and Tempest come online.

 

Currently half of our maps feature the Me262 and on them its spawn rate is triggered by player numbers - more Reds, more 262s. This is a temporary measure while we work on missions that have smarter game mechanics to impact the Me262's availability.

Edited by Talon_
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49 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

You can only turn if you see it coming,

Or if your wingman does. I've had some great fun on Combat Box this weekend flying reds, frustrating 262's as a team. If you're all watching each others 6 it's perfectly doable. I had one situation where 4 of us (2 '47's and 2 XI's) were being harried by 2 262's all the way back to our landing ground. By virtue of some very timely (not to say panicked) 'break' calls, we all made it back ok. Very tense, and very satisfying to use teamwork to deny them the kills!

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34 minutes ago, [N.O.G.F]Leon_Portier said:

@Diggun Where do you get this mythical "wingman"? I know those only from stories.

 

Many great ones in SCG ;)

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, [N.O.G.F]Leon_Portier said:

@Diggun Where do you get this mythical "wingman"? I know those only from stories.

Combat Box Discord! 

Edited by Diggun
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Posted (edited)
On 6/24/2019 at 4:37 AM, CptSiddy said:

And with the current "ALARMA, 262 IN AIRSPACE", it is small wonder anyone gets any kills at all with that thing.

 

For the moment I made 10 air kills with 7 262 flights. And I'm not the only one of course. So we are quite far from the "wonder anyone gets any kills at all" :biggrin:

Actually the 262 can be very deadly and untouchable especially in large furbals.

Edited by F/JG300_Faucon
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17 hours ago, Diggun said:

Combat Box Discord! 

This is true, get on the CombatBox discord and get in one of the 'flights' channels. I signed in and wound up flying in a flight of 3 guys I had never met before, and even with my own minimal experience coordinating we were able to provide pretty good cover for each other on a long patrol on the D-Day map. Another time I wound up coordinating with 4 guys to attack the ships on Paravane, with a pair of bombers for the attack and a couple spitfires providing top cover. All completely ad-hoc, no squads required. The CB discord is great if you have voice comms, and usually at least a few people are there.

Just don't accidentally mute yourself for an entire mission and think everyone's just ignoring your calls for help. I had a, er, friend that happened to once. Not that I would ever do something like that.

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24 minutes ago, F/JG300_Faucon said:

 

For the moment I made 10 air kills with 7 262 flights. And I'm not the only one of course. So we are quite far from the "wonder anyone gets any kills at all" :biggrin:

Actually the 262 can be very deadly and untouchable especially in large furbals.

 

You make 10 air kills in K4 or D9  in 7 sorties as well, you are above average pilot. 

 

Average player is hardly going to get same results. 

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4 hours ago, CptSiddy said:

Average player is hardly going to get same results. 

 

I wouldn't say that. I'm an average if not below average pilot yet I can get 3-5 kills per flight when flying the D9 or K4, they're pretty easy to fly. Put me in a P-47 however and I'm lucky to get 1-2 kills per flight if any at all.

 

262 is still a bit tricky for me. I've only flown it once but got 2 kills during the flight but I missed tons of times. 262 is definitely a challenge with it's high closure rate.

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4 hours ago, RedKestrel said:

This is true, get on the CombatBox discord and get in one of the 'flights' channels. I signed in and wound up flying in a flight of 3 guys I had never met before, and even with my own minimal experience coordinating we were able to provide pretty good cover for each other on a long patrol on the D-Day map. Another time I wound up coordinating with 4 guys to attack the ships on Paravane, with a pair of bombers for the attack and a couple spitfires providing top cover. All completely ad-hoc, no squads required. The CB discord is great if you have voice comms, and usually at least a few people are there.

Just don't accidentally mute yourself for an entire mission and think everyone's just ignoring your calls for help. I had a, er, friend that happened to once. Not that I would ever do something like that.

 

Also the Admins and the rest of Red Flight use them whenever we play and we'd love to meet you all 😁

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Just to round out the 262 discussion, you'll see in the Discord change log we reduced the availability of the 262s. Instead of there being one available at map start, the blues always need to wait for a fair number of red fliers to be in the air first. Instead of 3 x 262 available once unlocked, it's just 2 x 262, and the renew rate is lowered. If people are careful and fly their 262 back to base for repair/rearm/refuel then there could end up being more than two 262s in the air by the end of the map, but hopefully this new setup will avoid the "omg reds just got jumped by four jets" type situations.

 

It's a bit of a bummer if you actually want to fly the 262 because it's even more of a crapshoot whether one is available, but given that Axis planes are out-pacing Allied planes in pre-release BoBP it's the best we can do and still keep the jet in the game. Forthcoming map (this week? early next week?) is going to have 262-specific mechanics and a lot more clarity for players on how/why the 262 becomes available (or not) during the mission.

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2 hours ago, Alonzo said:

Just to round out the 262 discussion, you'll see in the Discord change log we reduced the availability of the 262s. Instead of there being one available at map start, the blues always need to wait for a fair number of red fliers to be in the air first. Instead of 3 x 262 available once unlocked, it's just 2 x 262, and the renew rate is lowered. If people are careful and fly their 262 back to base for repair/rearm/refuel then there could end up being more than two 262s in the air by the end of the map, but hopefully this new setup will avoid the "omg reds just got jumped by four jets" type situations.

 

It's a bit of a bummer if you actually want to fly the 262 because it's even more of a crapshoot whether one is available, but given that Axis planes are out-pacing Allied planes in pre-release BoBP it's the best we can do and still keep the jet in the game. Forthcoming map (this week? early next week?) is going to have 262-specific mechanics and a lot more clarity for players on how/why the 262 becomes available (or not) during the mission.

I'm looking forward to getting out to fly again, especially the forthcoming new map!

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3 hours ago, F/JG300_Faucon said:

Combat box is offline? 

 

Power failure!

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7 hours ago, F/JG300_Faucon said:

Combat box is offline? 

 

Server is back up! Sorry for the outage everyone.

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