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E69_julian57

Skin 4k Fw 190 D9

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Posted (edited)

Julian, great work. Though I doubt it had a white rudder. Guess yellow would be more appropriate for a 4/1945 plane, like in the sketch of Smith&Creek I posted. AFAIK they only used white tails in 1943 for squadron leaders in defense of reich units. See Graf´s and Grislawskis 109s G6 of JGr 50 or Hackl´s 190 A6 with III./JG 11 of that timeframe.

Edited by sevenless
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2 hours ago, sevenless said:

Julian, great work. Though I doubt it had a white rudder. Guess yellow would be more appropriate for a 4/1945 plane, like in the sketch of Smith&Creek I posted. AFAIK they only used white tails in 1943 for squadron leaders in defense of reich units. See Graf´s and Grislawskis 109s G6 of JGr 50 or Hackl´s 190 A6 with III./JG 11 of that timeframe.

 

Hi sevenless

According to pictures of the aircraft in the book "The Focke-Wulf 190 Dora" Vol 1 and 2 from Jerry Crandall, the rudder has the same hue as the white band , white second gruppe bar and  white number 1. Of course , the rudder could also have been very light whitish  RLM 76, but the absence of camo patches on it made it appear lighter compared to the fuselage and tail.

Yellow seems unprobable. 

I like all these good old black and white pictures.....  

 

There is also a picture in Aero Journal N° 51 (March 2016) of black 1 + -- from 6.JG 26, W.Nr. 210972, flown by Oblt. Heinrich Schild to Lister on 5 may 45, (with 4 other aircrafts) showing the same camo scheme, but here the RLM 76 rudder is faintly dabbed with a darker colour. It has the same cylindrical fuel tank as White 1.

 

So ... 

 

Just my 5 cents. 

Madcop😄

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Madcop said:

 

Hi sevenless

According to pictures of the aircraft in the book "The Focke-Wulf 190 Dora" Vol 1 and 2 from Jerry Crandall, the rudder has the same hue as the white band , white second gruppe bar and  white number 1. Of course , the rudder could also have been very light whitish  RLM 76, but the absence of camo patches on it made it appear lighter compared to the fuselage and tail.

Yellow seems unprobable. 

I like all these good old black and white pictures.....  

 

There is also a picture in Aero Journal N° 51 (March 2016) of black 1 + -- from 6.JG 26, W.Nr. 210972, flown by Oblt. Heinrich Schild to Lister on 5 may 45, (with 4 other aircrafts) showing the same camo scheme, but here the RLM 76 rudder is faintly dabbed with a darker colour. It has the same cylindrical fuel tank as White 1.

 

So ... 

 

Just my 5 cents. 

Madcop😄

 

 

 

Hi thanks, that maybe explains it. Never seen a white rudder in JG 26 to be honest, but who knows what might have happened in those last 4 weeks of ww2.

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With time passing we'll never know, but each year we discover a little more about theory and reality of the field.

One of the last discovery is that this ubiquitous RLM83 has recently been identified on a " Factory official document " as being RLM 83 Dunkle Blau ! A shade being used on parts of maritime aircrafts, and looking strangely like U.S. Sea Blue !  Far away of green .................................LOL.

 

Madcop

 

 

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A very interesting and recent study (in French) by J.-Claude Mermet about RLM81, 82 and 83 :

http://maquettemaster.forumactif.com/t808-rlm-81-82-et-83
(with a nice photograph of a blue wing float of a trimotor flyingboat Blohm-und-Voss BV 138 !).

 

The dark green shade previously identified as "RLM 83" is a variant of RLM 81 and the real RLM 83 was dark blue...

 

About Luftwaffe colors, all we know is we know nothing 😉

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Posted (edited)

http://www.luftwaffeinprofile.se/Dummers lake.html

2020-6-19-14-56-52.jpg

Spoiler

Fw-190-D-9-IVJG-51.jpg

2020-6-19-14-47-48.jpg

 

The link doesn't seem to be working :angry:

The mega is down and the media fire tells me it's over my head.

Sorry

-------------------------------------------

DOWNLOAD   ⬇️

                         ⬇️

Edited by E69_julian57
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1 hour ago, E69_julian57 said:

http://www.luftwaffeinprofile.se/Dummers lake.html

2020-6-19-14-56-52.jpg

  Reveal hidden contents

Fw-190-D-9-IVJG-51.jpg

2020-6-19-14-47-48.jpg

 

The link doesn't seem to be working :angry:

The mega is down and the media fire tells me it's over my head.

Sorry

 

Maybe due to the absence of the 4th Gruppe identification  "Welle" ( ~) that IV.JG51. used untill the end of the war...? 

Furthermore, the pilot's name and fate of this ac.W.Nr.212133. belonging to 13.JG51. is not known, except that he did an emergency landing due to flak damage.

So, as fate and name is unknown , he could as well has been hit by this more than controversed French pilot....who saw the pilot leaving his aircraft  dragging his parachute only to die in an ambulance....He really has nothing other to do in such circumstances ( Closterman, not the German pilot !)

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julian57 what would we do without you? 😄

 

Thank you sir!

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10 hours ago, Madcop said:

With time passing we'll never know, but each year we discover a little more about theory and reality of the field.

One of the last discovery is that this ubiquitous RLM83 has recently been identified on a " Factory official document " as being RLM 83 Dunkle Blau ! A shade being used on parts of maritime aircrafts, and looking strangely like U.S. Sea Blue !  Far away of green .................................LOL.

 

Madcop

 

 

 

Agree. There are still some mysteries left to be unraveled. And some surprises left when somehow an authentic temporary color photo might pop up.

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16 hours ago, Madcop said:

 

Maybe due to the absence of the 4th Gruppe identification  "Welle" ( ~) that IV.JG51. used untill the end of the war...? 

Furthermore, the pilot's name and fate of this ac.W.Nr.212133. belonging to 13.JG51. is not known, except that he did an emergency landing due to flak damage.

So, as fate and name is unknown , he could as well has been hit by this more than controversed French pilot....who saw the pilot leaving his aircraft  dragging his parachute only to die in an ambulance....He really has nothing other to do in such circumstances ( Closterman, not the German pilot !)

 

Are we sure that this is indeed a JG 51 plane? IIRC IV./JG 51 at that time was operating NW of Berlin/south of Schwerin from Neustadt-Glewe and roughly North of the River Elbe. The Dümmer lake on the other hand is situated roughly 30km north of Osnabrueck. So my personal guess would be that it is more likely that white 1 might be a 1./JG 26 plane or of another unit operating in the Bremen-Hannover region. The complete absence of the specific "wave" for IV.Gruppe which was present on 13./JG 51 planes (Tänzer, Marquardt, etc.) also makes me suspicious.

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One inaccuracy I noticed is that there are lots of skins that feature the yellow "increased boost" ring on the cowling, that also feature MW50 markings.

Those two markings are exclusive of each other!

 

One example:

2020-6-19-14-56-52.jpg

Yellow ring on MG-cowling (increased boost indication) and MW50 "V" at the 115l tank filler (above the white 1).

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Posted (edited)

Hello @Bremspropeller

I understand that you can't have both markings at the same time.
I'll change it and thanks for the info.

:salute:

Edited by E69_julian57
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To make things a bot clerarer:

 

I believe I have seen only two or three different Doras with the yellow ring. All the other Doras with increased boost didn't have the ring, but showed a "B4" fuel triangle stencil at the 115l rear fuselage tank (that tank would hold the MW50, when equipped with MW50 boost).

 

MW50 can be indicated by the larger stencil ("V" shaped) or by just putting "MW" (or MW50 or Sonderstoff MW) into the triangle (instead of B4). There were lots of different indications for MW50 - standard or nonstandard...

 

Bottom line: Only very, very few aircraft should have the yellow ring at all.

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