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CoolSpy

Devs, please could you add support for canted displays (Pimax and Valve Index) so we can avoid using parallel projection and get decent performance ?

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Posted (edited)

I just received my by max 5k and the game looks amazing!!  it's crystal clear and the field of view is a game changer!! The only problem is that you have to activate the parallel projection option in Pimax tools ( so you don't have crossed eyes image) which drains a lot of performance :( currently the game is not really enjoyable even on a 2080 Ti!

There is a slight modification of the game engine to do. Games like iracing just made the modification and the game is now amazing with the pimax.

 

 I was just wondering if you devs are currently working on it?

 

 thanks in advance for your answer! :)

 

EDIT: Now that Valve Index also has canted displays, this topic does not only concern Pimax anymore!

Edited by CoolSpy
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On 3/20/2019 at 9:38 AM, CoolSpy said:

which drains a lot of performance

Just curious, How do you know parallel reprojection decrease performance? and why?

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You can see in the FPSVR app that parallel projection causes a higher frametime, which impacts every game but not with the same drop in performance.

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1 hour ago, chiliwili69 said:

Just curious, How do you know parallel reprojection decrease performance? and why?

 

it's an interesting topic for sure. " You see, a pimp's love is very different from that of a square. "  😄

 

Pimax's HMD lens and screen's placement is different from any other headset out there.

 

RIFT/VIVE/ODYSSEY lens/screens:

image.png.82274fbd2a2e3a0ef817c2132d4ab226.png

 

Pimax:

 

image.png.a2b893da5a63501bbabd8b7a9b0356a0.png

 

 

I think you're starting to get a point of what Parallel Reprojection entails. 😄   For the games that do not support divergent/canted screen configuration (i.e. supports parallel screens only) the Pitools software corrects the rendered scene to the appropriate angular plane so it's correctly displayed on the canted configuration and most importantly understood/recognized by your brain.  That correction is done inside the software process that uses up resources of the GPU, etc...

 

 

 

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Thanks for the above information. 

 

Apart form what has already been discussed, does anyone know what the advantages and disadvantages are between the different lens/screen set ups above?

 

Like, why did Pimax go for the different set up?  Is it better or worse as far as the final image and performance?

 

Happy landings,

 

Talisman

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59 minutes ago, 56RAF_Talisman said:

Thanks for the above information. 

 

Apart form what has already been discussed, does anyone know what the advantages and disadvantages are between the different lens/screen set ups above?

 

Like, why did Pimax go for the different set up?  Is it better or worse as far as the final image and performance?

 

Happy landings,

 

Talisman

 

My guess is that this was the only way for them to achieve that kind of high FOV without using curved screens. 

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I think the performance hit of the parallel projection compatibility setting in PiTool is primarily because of the very wide frame buffer you get if you want to have 170-deg. FOV perpendicular to the view vector. It's about 9.5 times more than for a 100-deg, FOV. The transformation to a format ready to be sent to the canted panels is likely negligible in comparison.

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I just hope that PIMAX 5K is common enough in the community so the devs will modify the game accordingly!

 

Anyway, more VR headsets are on the way with higher FOV, especially Steam Index VR so the change is needed :)

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Also many headsets either use a single screen split in 2 halves for each eye or 2 x narrow screens that sit on the same plane.  Canting of the Pimax 5K and 8K screens is for the larger FOV of the headset.  It would be great to see 1 more wide FOV headsets on the market and also for Il2 to be able to run without the need for Compatibility to be done by PiTool. 

 

Extra 30% or so improvement in render performance is nothing to be sneezed at.  I tried 1.5 render in PiTool tonight with 100% in both Vid and App for SteamVR.  It was studdery but man, the view.  Oh to have the hardware to drive the 8K fluidly at Ultra Graphic Setting and at such render target.....

 

Maybe next year. 😎

 

Back to 0.75 PiTool Render Target I go.

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With new Valve Index coming out in this week, I sincerely hope that the Dev would seriously consider to optimize for Canted VR headsets since it is becoming more of the trendy thing now.  @Jason_Williams

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So, without the devs doing something, what happens with a canted headset like the Index? With Pimax my understanding is the VR system has to do a lot of extra rendering—is that a render for each eye or more pixels or what? I was hearing 30% performance hit for Pimax if the game isn’t properly supporting canted displays.

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Posted (edited)

Yes performance are terrible with parallel projection mode on.... so much that I don't play IL2 anymore, I am waiting for a fix from dev team :(

 

The good thing about VALVE INDEX release is that it will benefit to all Pimax owners since every VR game will have to add support for canted displays! BIG THANKS VALVE this is the best present you could do to us ;)

Edited by CoolSpy
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For the same number of pixels in the render I compared in the past Rift and Pimax5K+:

1101965394_pimaxvsrift.thumb.jpg.7baf4dac4c10bc57c2466c4042f28f89.jpg

 

I could not see any performance hit at all.

The reason for that could be that this extra processing is performed by Pitool software which is running in a different core of the CPU (it is not performed by IL-2 threads).

Or, if it is performed by the GPU, in my test the GPU was not at 100% load due to low values of SS (1.5 in Rift and 0.26 at Pimax5K+).

 

Currently I use 20% SS in SteamVR and 2.0 in Pitool (this is 20 million pixels!). The graphics quality is good and the performance with High settings is 80-90 for 1vs1 for Lapino with no clouds.

In "normal missions" is between 60 to 80, with drops to 45 when the combat gets hot. Nothing dramatic to my eyes.

But the big FOV is really a pleasant experience.

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Posted (edited)

Oh no, so the index won't be good for IL-2 unless this is updated. I have an index reserved. Was hoping to enjoy clearer IL-2 with it. 

 

Are other games affected by this? No one has ever mentioned this. 

Edited by BlackMambaMowTin

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On 5/11/2019 at 10:23 PM, BlackMambaMowTin said:

Oh no, so the index won't be good for IL-2 unless this is updated. I have an index reserved. Was hoping to enjoy clearer IL-2 with it. 

 

Are other games affected by this? No one has ever mentioned this. 

 

Well, according to Chili (and he actually knows his stuff, unlike some forum members, and he has spreadsheets to prove his numbers) there is no measurable performance impact for his Pimax with canted displays. If it's OK on the Pimax it will probably be OK on the Index too.

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, Alonzo said:

 

Well, according to Chili (and he actually knows his stuff, unlike some forum members, and he has spreadsheets to prove his numbers) there is no measurable performance impact for his Pimax with canted displays. If it's OK on the Pimax it will probably be OK on the Index too.

PP off 3494x2874 GPU frame time is 12.3ms

PP on 3376x2883 GPU frame time is 11.9 ms

The difference does not seem significant. It's new though, I remember earlier versions having much wider resolutions, maybe PiMax made a recent improvement.

 

Edit: Going back to PP off I see that PiTool advertises different recommended resolutions for the same render quality. This is possibly the reason why people get the impression that PP on is slow.

Edited by coconut
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Any news on this? As a Pimax 5k owner I'm really waiting for this! Devs Pls!

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30 minutes ago, P_Gora said:

Any news on this? As a Pimax 5k owner I'm really waiting for this! Devs Pls!

Yes, it would be great if the development team could enable better VR performance in this regard.  I too, along with many others, use the Pimax 5k+ and there are lots of others about to make the change over to VR during the coming months.

 

Any news from the development team concerning this issue would be gratefully received.

 

Thanks.

 

Talisman

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On 5/14/2019 at 9:00 PM, coconut said:

PP off 3494x2874 GPU frame time is 12.3ms

PP on 3376x2883 GPU frame time is 11.9 ms

The difference does not seem significant. It's new though, I remember earlier versions having much wider resolutions, maybe PiMax made a recent improvement.

 

Edit: Going back to PP off I see that PiTool advertises different recommended resolutions for the same render quality. This is possibly the reason why people get the impression that PP on is slow.

Guys, Coconut figured it out. 

 

There's nothing for the Devs to fix, please re-read his post. If you switch back and forth from PP you need to adjust SteamVR SS , not by percentage, but by vertical points. Equalise that and you'll have the similar performance again.

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Where do  you buy a PiMax in the USA? I tried talking to them once and it was crazy Chinese nonsense coming back at me. We can't do anything unless we have a unit or two in the Moscow office.

 

Edit: Ok looks like Amazon has it. Will be here tomorrow. Looks like it simply uses the Vive base stations etc. which I have.

 

Jason

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6 hours ago, Jason_Williams said:

Where do  you buy a PiMax in the USA? I tried talking to them once and it was crazy Chinese nonsense coming back at me. We can't do anything unless we have a unit or two in the Moscow office.

 

Edit: Ok looks like Amazon has it. Will be here tomorrow. Looks like it simply uses the Vive base stations etc. which I have.

 

Jason

Awesome! Great to see you here!

The big FOV gives a very good sense of speed - perfect for dashing around in the new Me-262.

 

PiTool version: https://forum.pimaxvr.com/t/new-pitool-1-0-1-144-is-available-now-from-pimax/20827

NA Support: https://forum.pimaxvr.com/t/north-american-support-center-contact-information/18740

Quick-Setup guide: https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/34266-copypaste-settings-plus-zoom-for-best-spotting-and-id-odyssey-pimax5k-rift-s-rift/

 

 

Current problems:

+Sun currently may appear too large in certain scenarios and sometimes flashes rapidly through clouds. Confirmed by other VR players while flying. Best way to check it is on "Stalingrad Winter".

+Airplanes and objects stop getting rendered at the right hand side corner, at roughly 65° towards the right. Land renders fine. The left hand side renders objects all the way to 90°. Best way to check is to look at an aircraft and swivel head to the left while focussing another aircraft - it disappears before exiting the picture naturally.

 

 

Thank you 😁👍

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Posted (edited)

The problem with aeroplanes and objects stop getting rendered in the right eye corner is a problem in my Rift CV1 as well, reported it in the bug section long time ago.

 

Edited by Goblin
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1 hour ago, Goblin said:

The problem with aeroplanes and objects stop getting rendered in the right eye corner is a problem in my Rift CV1 as well, reported it in the bug section long time ago.

 

Alright hoping Moscow fixes it, Jason is here he must've seen it 🙏😅

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Gr8 to hear! Flying with 170 fov is so much better than 110. Especially in dogfight. Any improvements would be very welcome. 

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With FFR working without game crash, we could also fly with 200° FOV without the need of a fire extinguisher next to the case. 😍

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It would be great to be able to use high FoV Pimax without need to sacrifice performance using outside canted displays support.

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On 7/12/2019 at 7:30 PM, Jason_Williams said:

Where do  you buy a PiMax in the USA? I tried talking to them once and it was crazy Chinese nonsense coming back at me. We can't do anything unless we have a unit or two in the Moscow office.

 

Edit: Ok looks like Amazon has it. Will be here tomorrow. Looks like it simply uses the Vive base stations etc. which I have.

 

Jason, do you have a Valve Index also?

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