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Reverb - new offering from HP

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While you are talking about the FOV now, I just tried some online flights now and yes, the FOV is really a bit smaller than in a Rift, horizontally and also vertically, especially when looking down.

The performance online was also smooth for me and I can spot other airplanes better and more clearly now.

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Posted (edited)

I have noticed the Smoothness as well, with the Pimax5k+. May this be tied to the LCD screens? They carry so many advantages... no wonder that all manufacturers are moving to LCD. Crazy...

 

Can't wait for the Reverb to arrive as well, then to test it too.

 

 

By the way, the FOVs of all headsets seem to be given in diagonals, actually. The 200° diagonally is 170° horizontale, the Normal FOV is 150° horizontal. The Odyssey is roughly 95° horizontally, Index will then be around 110°.

 

So we either stick to the diagonal one, or the horizontal and vertical as separate variables? I think separate vertical and horizontal is something we can afford to do, it's important for us Simmers, we should collect the results for various headsets over time. What do you think @chiliwili69

Edited by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

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Posted (edited)

Not sure about the LCD´s compared to OLED........in terms of smoothness. I was really skeptical about the LCD, but not anymore.

In comparison between OLED and LCD I want to talk about the colors and image contrast. With the OLED of the Rift and the OS+ for me the colors were mostly too colorful, unnatural and sometimes too dark. Now it is really the opposite with the LCD, colors look more bright and natural for me and the Reverb is really much much brighter than the OLED´s. I personally like that, but I expect that some other guys here will maybe prefer the colors of a Rift. You get the nice rich colors in the Reverb, but more in dark spots, in shadowed spots for instance, but in bright spots where the sun shines directly, the colors are much brighter and less intense and that is what I mean by natural.

Once you see the Reverb for your first time on a summer map with bright sunlight in IL-2 you will know what I mean.

 

I just did a quick mission now with the Spitfire Mk.5 and am always hyped about the display and the sharpness. I think in a week or 2 I am used to it and take it as granted, but coming directly from real 1. Generation HMD´s it´s always a flash at the beginning LoL. Tonight a Sim Racing friend will come to test the Reverb, I am curious how his impressions will be.

 

About the FOV, yes the developers say we have 114 Degrees FOV, which is diagonally, but that says really nothing for us simmers. I am very happy that the Reverb launched already and started a 2. Generation of HMD´s, that means the development is continuing and I am looking forward what kind of PC and VR Hardware we can enjoy in 3 or 4 years from now on. Our hobby does get better and better and more immersive, which is great.

 

 

 

Edited by spitfirejoe
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Has anyone in the U.S. got this? I’ve had it on order from Amazon for quite a while but as everyone knows it is still unavailable there.The official website also gives an “out of stock” message.I think I read somewhere on this thread that it might be shipped mid June- is this still possible?

Slightly OT but not much:Has anyone tried it on any of the aircraft in Flying Circus? I have Rift S at present and I can tell you with its FoV checking six is nearly impossible so I wonder if Reverb has an even more difficult time?

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Blitzen, yesterday I tried the first time Flying Circus with it in a Fokker D VII, the FOV is really a bit small for those kind of aircraft. I guess the Pimax is better for that. If FOV is YOUR personal priority, the Reverb might not be the perfect HMD for you.

 

Actually I was waiting for the StarVR HMD, with it´s big FOV and foveated rendering feature, but till now no news about it. I am sure once the PC Hardware can fire up a 4K resolution in VR with a 180 Degrees FOV with Ultra graphic settings and FPS performance, we will get that. The next generation will come and for me personally the Reverb is good enough until then, because I want to skip the 2080Ti and I wait already for the next GPU after that.

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Posted (edited)

To me, at the moment, there is no Gen 2.0 yet. It needs high FOV, 4K, and proper controllers. All in one. I didn't know how important FOV is until I've set up this Pimax. What those I've personally considered "fanboys" have stated, has actually been true all along.... 🤦‍♂️

 

 

The Pimax 8KX is due this year. While more expensive, they'll totally knock out to kill the Valve Index with this.

 

A good 2080ti will push enough pixels for it by the way. Buy one, but keep a similar amount of cash ready.

Edited by SCG_Fenris_Wolf
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On 6/8/2019 at 11:45 PM, spitfirejoe said:

Sweet spot.........honestly I had no problem at all with that

 

Thanks very much for the feedback, it sounds promising. Nice to hear the sweet spot is OK.

On 6/9/2019 at 5:27 AM, spitfirejoe said:

especially a more technically in-depth view of Chiliwili69

Thanks for that, but just to be precise, I am just enthusiast of VR and planes, but not really an expert on any of those matters. Just learning from experience.

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On 6/9/2019 at 7:08 PM, HunDread said:

I live in Hungary. If it was more expensive for you, probably I just don't see some hidden expenses but this is what the checkout page shows:

 

image.png.5625cb8c2aa5d395f38591789526fcc9.png

 

That´s the price excluding VAT, it was the same for me. But after doing the checkout you will receive an additional inquiry to pay 112.6€ for the VAT (this was my case for Spain). So that´s same price than spitfirejoe 561.5+112.6=674

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On 6/9/2019 at 8:42 PM, 89- said:

I personally never noticed this effect in CV1

 

I also don´t know how to call this effect, which is not mura neither SDE neither aliasing.

I noticed this effect with the Rift CV1 at night missions

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On 6/9/2019 at 11:01 PM, spitfirejoe said:

I used Steam VR SS 188% today ( recommended for my 1080Ti is 150% ) to see how it performs with it´s native resolution.

 

I have been doing the SS calcs for the HP Reverb and now everything is clear.

 

I understand that HP opted to introduce a heavy subsampling default resolution to maintain the 5.1 million pixels for SS=100%, which is common in all WMR including Odyssey.

So, without touching settings everyone will have same performance using any WMR headset.

 

But in order to get the Reverb to full power you SHOULD increase the SS setting to at least 184%, which is 9.3 million pixels (the pixels of the panel).

 

Obviously, if your CPU&GPU allows, you will get some more details if the SS is increased beyond 184%. But in any case, the image quality you should get with 184% should be quite above any other headset.

 

People with CPUs at 5.1GHz and 2080Ti were reaching 266% SS with Rift and maintaining 90fps with high settings, so theoretically they will be able to use 226% SS with the Reverb.

 

 

146766543_ReverbSS.jpg.20929fdc0faa0775ed574e8861453d44.jpg

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Posted (edited)

Hi Chiliwli,

 

thanks for such calculations and info, very interesting. I wish I would have the fastet CPU and GPU now to test, but haven't.

With my i7-8700k @ 3,7 Ghz and the 1080Ti I am using now 188% SS and I get a bit less FPS, but still no stuttering or anything bad, so I keep that as my personal maximum now.

I am NOT an FPS junky, I don't care too much about numbers, I mostly even don't check how much FPS I get, but only when the performance gets less or is not smooth anymore.

 

Yesterday a Sim Racing friend checked my Reverb and was also convinced about it, he will buy it aswell, he has a Rift CV1 and said the Reverb is a huge step forward and time to change.

 

Btw......1 small technical issue which I had yesterday morning.

Sometimes I had problems with the Reverbs headphones while moving the HMD on my head or while turning my head. The sound stopped on the left headphone from time to time for a second or so and later also on the right headphone. I got panic and thought it is a loose contact due to a broken cable or so.

Nothing like that. I checked the screws of the headphones and found them quite loose, I tightened them with a small cent coin and now everything works perfect.

So if anyone with the Reverb has sound problems with those headphones, just tight the screws.

Edited by spitfirejoe
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13 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

That´s the price excluding VAT, it was the same for me. But after doing the checkout you will receive an additional inquiry to pay 112.6€ for the VAT (this was my case for Spain). So that´s same price than spitfirejoe 561.5+112.6=674

Thanks for clarifying. Yeah I thought there was some invisible expense on the checkout page.

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11 minutes ago, spitfirejoe said:

With my i7-8700k @ 3,7 Ghz

 

HEY HEY HEY!!  Having a 8700K running at 3.7GHz is a crime for IL-2 VR!!

 

Definitely you should do overclocking. In one hour you can learn everything you should know about basic overclocking. With your CPU and a decent cooler you can easily reach 4.8GHz and perhaps more. With that you will gain from 15 to 20 fps.

 

read this:

 

 

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Thanks for the overclocking tip, I will consider this or even buy a very fast i9-9900k

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@spitfirejoe

  thanks for honest and detailed overview ;  also for racing sims;

have you tried any other fly sims? especially xp11 and DCS?

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2 minutes ago, wju said:

@spitfirejoe

  thanks for honest and detailed overview ;  also for racing sims;

have you tried any other fly sims? especially xp11 and DCS?

 

Welcome, I just share my very personal impressions, maybe there are others who will think different, but I know 3 owners personally and all 3 say the same about the Reverb, all very happy with their purchase.

 

I did not test Xplane11 so far. DCS....I don't own that one, because my focus is on WW2 planes and for that I refer IL-2 BoX.

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thanks anyway; I fly occasionally all flysim mentioned above with no strict preference;  now with Rift CV1 and considering VR upgrade...

PS: in DCS you can try ww2 Mustang for free, as You probably know it..

  


 

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Posted (edited)

Hello wju,

 

I just tried Xplane11 with the Reverb and I must say, I am disappointed. Not because of the Reverb itself, I am not happy with Xplane11 and it´s bad VR performance in general.

I want to admit that I bought Xp11 just recently to try it with my Odyssey plus and with that VR HMD I was disappointed already.

I did not buy any DLC or add ons with nicer sceneries or whatever for Xplane11, so I saw only the standard maps. For me that flight sim looks in VR like Microsoft Flight Sim 1998.

Very ugly maps and scenery. The cockpits look OK, but the rest not really for me and for such ugly scenery graphics it is a shame that it costs so much performance in VR that I must turn down everything so very much to make it "usable" that I loose interest. I tried some higher graphic settings flying the Beech Baron from Victoria Airport on Vancouver Island......unflyable with an ugly stuttering picture. Then turned down the graphics so much that it was quite flyable in performance but it looked outside so damn ugly that I wanted to quit, which I did.

Compared to the Odyssey plus the gauges and instruments inside the cockpit were much better readable and looked better, BUT REALLY.......if you are used to the very nice looking cockpits of my beloved IL-2 BoX......why should I use Xp11? Sorry to say, I don't want to waste my time with such a bad performing piece of software in VR mode. I don't want to fiddle around all day long to find a setting which is nearly usable, the result which I have seen after doing so for more than 1 hour was not pleasant enough for me. I wish that sim would be much better optimized for VR. I hope it will be some day, maybe then I will use it, but like this, no thanks.

 

DCS......I did try it long time ago with my Rift and I did try the free P-51. I had also not the best VR performance with DCS and I did not enjoy the P-51 and DCS as much as I did with IL-2, so I lost interest. For me personally DCS would be the kind of Sim if I want to use fighter jets like the gorgeous F-14. But I don't have too much spare time and I want to focus on IL-2 and sim racing. Too many different sims and software are a pain in the ass for me.

Edited by spitfirejoe

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, TUS_Samuel said:

No need in 9900k for Il-2. Too little gain over 8700k @ 4.8GHz. Like 5% or so.

 

https://siliconlottery.com/pages/statistics

 

100% reach 4.8GHz

99% reach 4.9GHz

83% reach 5.0GHz

 

Mate, that's SSE. You want to look at the AVX2 segment for IL-2's VR.

 

8700K

83% reach 4.80GHz

49% reach 4.90GHz

17% reach 5.00GHz

 

Anyway, good find!

 

 

That said, point of Samuel was probably "you don't need to upgrade with 8700K". Which I'd sign.

Edited by SCG_Fenris_Wolf
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3 hours ago, spitfirejoe said:

Hello wju,

 

I just tried Xplane11 with the Reverb and I must say, I am disappointed. Not because of the Reverb itself, I am not happy with Xplane11 and it´s bad VR performance in general.

I want to admit that I bought Xp11 just recently to try it with my Odyssey plus and with that VR HMD I was disappointed already.

I did not buy any DLC or add ons with nicer sceneries or whatever for Xplane11, so I saw only the standard maps. For me that flight sim looks in VR like Microsoft Flight Sim 1998.

Very ugly maps and scenery. The cockpits look OK, but the rest not really for me and for such ugly scenery graphics it is a shame that it costs so much performance in VR that I must turn down everything so very much to make it "usable" that I loose interest. I tried some higher graphic settings flying the Beech Baron from Victoria Airport on Vancouver Island......unflyable with an ugly stuttering picture. Then turned down the graphics so much that it was quite flyable in performance but it looked outside so damn ugly that I wanted to quit, which I did.

Compared to the Odyssey plus the gauges and instruments inside the cockpit were much better readable and looked better, BUT REALLY.......if you are used to the very nice looking cockpits of my beloved IL-2 BoX......why should I use Xp11? Sorry to say, I don't want to waste my time with such a bad performing piece of software in VR mode. I don't want to fiddle around all day long to find a setting which is nearly usable, the result which I have seen after doing so for more than 1 hour was not pleasant enough for me. I wish that sim would be much better optimized for VR. I hope it will be some day, maybe then I will use it, but like this, no thanks.

 

DCS......I did try it long time ago with my Rift and I did try the free P-51. I had also not the best VR performance with DCS and I did not enjoy the P-51 and DCS as much as I did with IL-2, so I lost interest. For me personally DCS would be the kind of Sim if I want to use fighter jets like the gorgeous F-14. But I don't have too much spare time and I want to focus on IL-2 and sim racing. Too many different sims and software are a pain in the ass for me.

 

X plane 11 is a really poor performer in VR unfortunately... To its defense: It's possible to get to run acceptable but you need to do a lot of tweaking (also outside the game with graphic card settings etc.). You also need a lot of scenary and add-ons to make it look nice. The devloper, Laminar Research, are working on VR optimization and have made some progress though so I figure it will get better pretty soon.

22 minutes ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Mate, that's SSE. You want to look at the AVX2 segment for IL-2's VR.

 

Really? I thought AVX2 was not really a thing for games... would be interesting to read up a bit on that, do you have more info on IL-2 and AVX2?

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Posted (edited)

We have established the knowledge that IL-2 in VR calls AVX instructions.

 

You can test it yourself, OC on SSE, leave the offset alone, fire up IL-2 into VR, fly a round and check your CPU clock. The offset gets called each time. If you remove the offset, the clock will behave accordingly.

 

 

Which is why some people who overclocked to 5 GHz and ran the benchmarks in Chiliwili's thread received bad results. They were not on 5GHz, but on their offset and thus 4.5GHz without noticing. At a stable 5GHz with AVX offset to 0 you can run the game at 90fps >95% of the time. It's the unlocker. People went avg with 88fps in that complex benchmark, and the low dipping above 60fps. It was the reason my CPU appeared to punch way above its weight in the first benchmarks at 4.8GHz and 4.9Ghz, while others with assumingly higher clocks were bloody terrible.

Edited by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

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13 hours ago, spitfirejoe said:

I will consider this or even buy a very fast i9-9900k

 

Having an 8700K, please DON´T BUY the 9900K. It is just burning your money.

With the 8700K you can reach 5.0GHz with just a good air cooler or Liquid All-in-One.

With the 9900K you will just reach 5.1GHz, so this extra 0.1 is really not worth the money.

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Just now, chiliwili69 said:

 

Having an 8700K, please DON´T BUY the 9900K. It is just burning your money.

With the 8700K you can reach 5.0GHz with just a good air cooler or Liquid All-in-One.

With the 9900K you will just reach 5.1GHz, so this extra 0.1 is really not worth the money.

Listen to this man.

 

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Hello friends, actually I have another more serious problem right now. My PC did a windows 10 update today (1903 ) and after that my windows mixed reality portal ( which runs the Reverb ) does have serious problems, it always crashes all the time, On OFF and so on and that´s why the Reverb is unusable right now. I watched for drivers, cannot find any.

Does the others with a WMR Headset have the same problems now? Any idea what I could do for trouble shooting?

 

Thanks in advance!

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Official pricing for Reverb in Spain is 599€, VAT included. Available in July.

https://www.realovirtual.com/noticias/6892/edicion-consumidores-hp-reverb-llega-julio-599e

20 minutes ago, spitfirejoe said:

Does the others with a WMR Headset have the same problems now?

 

That´s one problem of WMR devices, the software to run them is highly tied to the operating system.

 

If you saved a system image you can restore and deactivate automatic updates of Windows:

https://www.windowscentral.com/how-stop-updates-installing-automatically-windows-10

 

If you didn´t create a system image then just wait for them to fix/solve. There are many WMR headsets out there.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, spitfirejoe said:

Hello friends, actually I have another more serious problem right now. My PC did a windows 10 update today (1903 ) and after that my windows mixed reality portal ( which runs the Reverb ) does have serious problems, it always crashes all the time, On OFF and so on and that´s why the Reverb is unusable right now. I watched for drivers, cannot find any.

Does the others with a WMR Headset have the same problems now? Any idea what I could do for trouble shooting?

 

Thanks in advance!

If your pc is just updated itself than you can delete the latest patch and go back to the latest stable version. Here is the article that shows you how to do that:

windows roll back builds

Maybe you should try this....please let us know if you found a solution, my Reverb is on the way...

Edited by airsheep
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1 hour ago, spitfirejoe said:

Hello friends, actually I have another more serious problem right now. My PC did a windows 10 update today (1903 ) and after that my windows mixed reality portal ( which runs the Reverb ) does have serious problems, it always crashes all the time, On OFF and so on and that´s why the Reverb is unusable right now. I watched for drivers, cannot find any.

Does the others with a WMR Headset have the same problems now? Any idea what I could do for trouble shooting?

 

Thanks in advance!

This happened to me when my pc updated to Win 1903.

There are two things I had to do. First go to Windows Settings and click Virtual Reality. At the bottom of the tabs is an Uninstall feature. Unplug your HDMI and USB and activate the uninstall. Using the WMR app uninstall will not completely remove it from your machine. Once your pc reboots plug in your HMD and install WMR and set up your headset.

 

Second, update 1903 corrupted my Nvidia driver (430.86). I selected a fresh install and my problems were solved.

Hope this helps you get back in the cockpit.

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thanks very much @ airsheep and Gordon200

 

later today I will try to do that. I was very sure that the windows update caused the problems, because directly after that the trouble started.

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, spitfirejoe said:

 

Welcome, I just share my very personal impressions, maybe there are others who will think different, but I know 3 owners personally and all 3 say the same about the Reverb, all very happy with their purchase.

 

I did not test Xplane11 so far. DCS....I don't own that one, because my focus is on WW2 planes and for that I refer IL-2 BoX.

 

Hello,

You can try DCS - its a free simulator as basic version with unarmed P-51: take Open Beta here https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/downloads/world/ .

It works nice with HP Reverb as I know: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=236149

 

Btw. did You try HP Reverb in Prepar3Dv4 maybe? :)

 

I am affraid about what You wrote before about crashes, I hope it's only update Windows problem of WMR (because I also think about buying HP Reverb).

 

Edited by YoYo

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I did not try Prepar3Dv4 and I will not try DCS now, as I said before, it is not so much my cup of tea and I don't want to fiddle around with too many sims at the same time, I have besides IL-2 BoX complete Collection of all maps and planes, which I use very much 6 different Sim Racing titles on my PC.....my SSD is full with stuff and I don't want any more right now. I tried DCS free version with the P-51 already with my Rift and deleted it very quickly. I will use DCS maybe later again, but for now no motivation.

 

About the windows update, yesterday my PC did an update and I was sure that it must have been Version 1903, but just saw that it was Version 1803, the WMR crash happened right after that. Right now I am downloading Version 1903 hoping that WMR will work again.

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Does anyone know what is going on with the reverb in the UK? There has been practically no announcements or word from HP.. The pro version (with leather face cushion) was released but sold out after a few days (unfortunately I missed this chance..) and hasn’t been restocked since. I’ve been searching for updates on either a restock of the pro version or the release of the consumer version everyday but nothing has come up! Have I missed something or has HP completely botched this “launch”.  Even just a date from them would suffice..

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Gordon200 said:

This happened to me when my pc updated to Win 1903.

There are two things I had to do. First go to Windows Settings and click Virtual Reality. At the bottom of the tabs is an Uninstall feature. Unplug your HDMI and USB and activate the uninstall. Using the WMR app uninstall will not completely remove it from your machine. Once your pc reboots plug in your HMD and install WMR and set up your headset.

 

Second, update 1903 corrupted my Nvidia driver (430.86). I selected a fresh install and my problems were solved.

Hope this helps you get back in the cockpit.

 

What did you mean please by "selected a fresh install"? You mean you installed the Nvidia driver 430.86 again a second time?

 

I have the Win 1903 version now, and I did uninstall Mixed Reality in Windows and setup the Reverb and the windows Mixed Reality again, but it crashes all the time.....now it always says error code 1-4 ( Display cable not connected ) which is not the case.

So my new HMD is not working now due to Windows trouble, I saw in the Mixed Reality settings that they definitely changed something in the software and I am sure that this new built causes the trouble. I have heard from sim racers with the Reverb having same issues like me with windows now.

 

I am fed up for today.

Edited by spitfirejoe

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, spitfirejoe said:

 

What did you mean please by "selected a fresh install"? You mean you installed the Nvidia driver 430.86 again a second time?

 

 

I presume that means  choose the "perform a clean installation" option when a new nvidia driver installed. I always use this option when a new driver comes to avoid future problems.

image.png.426280ae30385bf88c389f902af7e710.png

Edited by airsheep
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Posted (edited)

Ok thanks I will try that.

 

Update......

I tried everything possible today, uninstalled WMR inside Windows several times, installed new drivers of the Reverb, uninstalled and installed NVIDIA drivers 2 times. Even went back to the previous Windows Version, all no help. The WMR portal crashed all the time. 

Then I tried the Odyssey plus again and that one worked stable, no crashes and no flaws, just an ugly not so clear picture compared to the Reverb. I was shocked how bad I can read small text in the cockpit and how bad the gauges looked. 

 

I am sure that I have a cable problem with the Reverb, or a broken connection between the cables, because it needs that connection plug. I don't expect that suddenly my display port socket of my GPU is broken which could cause the trouble aswell, unfortunately I can not test that.

 

So, no good news now, I will see and hope I can get an exchange or help quickly. The cable is a big misdesign in my opinion and if you see it you will agree. I am sure I will not be the first or the last with cable problems.

Edited by spitfirejoe

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I have seen some reports on other forums that the Reverb seems to be lacking a little in the stereoscopic 3d effect as compared to some other devices like Rift, Vive, Odyssey.

Curious to hear if anyone else is noticing anything like that?

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Posted (edited)

Sad news :( 

Some users reported that they could fix this problem by set the refresh rate to 60 Hz instead of 90 in windows vmr settings, maybe you should try that.

Btw many Reverb owners reported the same black screen problem so there should be a real problem with the cable.

Maybe this is the reason why HP postponed the sale and why Reverb is not available yet. To be honest the detachable cable is a wrong design.

I think I cancel my order because I'm sure I have to face this problem too. 

 

 

Edited by airsheep

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11 hours ago, spitfirejoe said:

Update......

I tried everything...

 

Did you try it on another computer?

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@dburne This is a reply from Beach AV8R in Mudspike forums on a direct Q on that matter:

" Interesting in that I really don’t know what to look for with regards to that. By that I mean, I didn’t really notice any startling difference in 3D presentation or quality of 3D. The UFC on the AV-8B looks super…very 3D and I have no issues at all with that aspect of the Reverb… "

https://forums.mudspike.com/t/vr-news-hp-reverb-second-gen-headsets-are-on-the-way/8165/389?u=ma_goblin"

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