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Reverb - new offering from HP

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17 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

Hey!  Thanks very much for the shop. I have just made my Reverb order there, estimated shipping to Spain is 18th-June

 

Oh thank god. I'm pulling my hair out with all these imprecise descriptions of "performance is quite good" and "60hz mode is fine"... I'm looking forward to you doing actual science on this headset. Yay.

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Posted (edited)

Nobody has dared yet to do FOV tests. It has been said to be smaller than Rift CV1 / Samsung Odyssey. The MRTV dude received one from manufacturers and is praising it as the new bible, while providing terrible through the lens videos and keep hyping it. Cmdr Exigenuous also received a test sample, but doesn't know how to conduct tests at all (claims he worked at Nasa, what a load of bs), wore glasses (which means he does not care much about a narrow view, most people with glasses are blind as hell to their periphery beyond their lenses). I'm also interested in the Reverb, but I need a properly independent indepth Review. Or at least some testing data. The Ars Technica and Tested Savage as well as RoadToVR didn't like it as much, mentioned a bland screen picture, mura, red smear, a small vertical FOV, being able to see the upper and lower edges of the actual screen within the headset.... but hell who knows, they look like influencers as well - their entire business model is based upon it.

 

That said, none of the guys have properly tested yet. None. It's all just "impressions and hyping or hating".

 

Like Alonzo, I got my hopes on chiliwili69 as well - or the point it gets released here. A down-to-earth review - water, instead of wine.

For example, with this app: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1359389601

 

 

P.S. I agree, "performance is quite good" is the most ridiculous statement ever. That's not even tied to the headset... 😂

 

 

P.P.S. There have been people getting shocked on several occasions. A previous post had disappeared, but this one I captured from a YouTuber's Discord channel:

For example, parney2000 wrote "Sebastian, I have the new HP Reverb Pro (UK). You never mention in your reviews small SDE is visible in distance stuff (when sim racing its more noticeable) and “mura” is evident. Why is this? Do you not see these or choose not to mention? Im curious to know how your replaced unit is? Have HP eliminated “mura’ on yours? (Evident in white or light images like webpages or skys in sum racing)... just be honest with your viewers and tell us how it really is please, its important to get an independent review 👍 also colour us washed out, really noticeable in sim racing where track, grass and sky looks very washed out (Iracing, more noticeable when in game is sunny)"

I hope this is not the case for everyone. Just remember guys, the YouTubers hyping it right now are Influencers. They are not independent testers, no matter what they say. We've had this in cosmetics, the girls bought certain cream series (I had mentioned it once) as if it was gold. It was shit. Smearing butter on your face would have had brought in more active substances. Mat costs were <5% of the profit, marketing itself was almost for free. The demand insane. You invite these guys, give some incentives, and they feel important, and praise praise praise praise.

 

Rely on proper tests, on hard, factual, collected data.

Edited by SCG_Fenris_Wolf
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Posted (edited)

I came back home late today from my vacation trip and had ONLY 30 minutes time to do a quick first test with the Reverb and IL-2 BoX using the Kuban map and a FW-190A8 and a Spitfire MK9 in some quick missions.

My System:
- i7-8700k
- 1080Ti
- 32Gb Ram 

I owned the Vive Pro, Oculus Rift CV1 and last the Odyssey Plus. I never tried or experienced the old Vive or a Pimax 5k plus or 8k. So I can only compare with the 3 HMD´s I owned and used before.

VERY FIRST Impressions:

The installation was easy and quick, actually NOTHING to install, because I used the OS+ WMR before.

Reverb itself:

The Reverb is very small, much smaller than I expected, very light weight. It is smaller than a Rift.
I love the design, the baseball cap design in wearing. It is very solid, the comfort on my head is superb and fits easy.
I love the leather VR cover, very comfortable. My nose is happy now, because the nose is free and nothing squeezes, my OS+ hurt while wearing it, Reverb does not at all.
The cable is very thick and heavy, that was better with the Rift, but I like that it does not use HDMI of the GPU.
Display port works great.
The Headphones are comfortable and easy to adjust to your ear position.

I like that the Reverb is easy to lift up in my face, like lifting a sunglass. That makes it easy in IL-2 to watch my keypad. With the OS+ that did not work that great.

Visual Quality:

First thing I saw is my desktop in the WMR app and I thought "Wow is that crisp and clear, what a nice picture". A huge wow effect. I never saw such a great image in VR before, compared to the ones I used day and night difference and now REALLY VR 2.0 and not 1.5!!!
Same thing happened when I started IL-2, the menu....the hangar, just WOW! And then I started a quick mission on Kuban summer map in a FW-190A8.
I saw the cockpit and was hyped. Crystal clear picture every small details easy to see and read. Even small text inside the cockpit was easy to read.....what a difference. In the Spitfire I could even easily read the model number of the gunsight ( very tiny text ).
The colors are much more natural compared to the Rift and OS+. The screen is brighter, with OS+ I used Gamma 1.0, that is too bright with the Reverb, I changed Gamma to 0.9 now.

The black levels inside the Spitfire Mk9 cockpit looked really great and real black, not as I expected from an LCD,  honestly I was not happy when I heard that it will not use OLED, but now after I saw the great picture quality I don't say it´s a disadvantage.

The image contrast is very good.

No screen door effect visible. I did not see any Mura or God Rays or anything else disturbing.

Overall the picture is just great and I saw so many details now of the plane which I never saw before in VR. Mind blowing!

My IPD is 63mm, so for me the prefect fit.

Sweet spot.........honestly I had no problem at all with that, sweet spot is bigger than in Vive Pro, Rift and OS+.

 

Sound Quality:

 

I love the built in Headphones. They are easy to adjust, comfortable and have a very good sound, much much much better than the OS+ and even better than the Rift, which I liked also. 

Sound is powerful and very balanced. Just great for such small headphones.

 

Performance in IL-2:

 

As I said before, Kuban Summer Map, daytime afternoon with a few clouds in the sky. I did use Steam VR SS 150%. Did NOT change any graphic settings in the menu from which I used before with the OS+ and got FPS from 79-90. Most of the time stable 90, but sometimes around 83-85, the lowest I saw was 79. The picture was smooth with no stuttering or flickering. Performs even better for my opinion than the Rift or the OS+, maybe it´s the Display port?????? I am not a PC hardware Geek, I can only say my impressions, but honestly I was surprised how nice the Reverb performs, I expected big FPS drops and stuttering images, but nothing like that happened.

With the Rift using ASW I had worse FPS drops and the picture artifacts and the flickering image inside the german gunsight was horrible, with the Reverb nothing like that happens, everything smooth and crystal clear.

The tracking was also working very solid, no problems for sitting simulation guys like us. I will not use it for other VR games using room scale and moving around with the controllers, so for me the WMR concept is good and really my cup of tea. 

 

That's it for now, I will do much more testing next days, will try some different graphic settings and SS in Steam VR and will try also some Sim Racing titles.....iRacing, Raceroom and Assetto Corsa.

 

I try to install the Steam APP for the FOV test next days aswell.
 

IMG_5463.jpg

Edited by spitfirejoe
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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, spitfirejoe said:

I came back home late today from my vacation trip and had ONLY 30 minutes time to do a quick first test with the Reverb and IL-2 BoX using the Kuban map and a FW-190A8 and a Spitfire MK9 in some quick missions.

My System:
- i7-8700k
- 1080Ti
- 32Gb Ram 

I owned the Vive Pro, Oculus Rift CV1 and last the Odyssey Plus. I never tried or experienced the old Vive or a Pimax 5k plus or 8k. So I can only compare with the 3 HMD´s I owned and used before.

VERY FIRST Impressions:

The installation was easy and quick, actually NOTHING to install, because I used the OS+ WMR before.

Reverb itself:

The Reverb is very small, much smaller than I expected, very light weight. It is smaller than a Rift.
I love the design, the baseball cap design in wearing. It it very solid, the comfort on my head is superb and fits easy.
I love the leather VR cover, very comfortable. My nose is happy now, because the nose is free and nothing squeezes, my OS+ hurt while wearing it, Reverb does not at all.
The cable is very thick and heavy, that was better with the Rift, but I like that it does not use HDMI of the GPU.
Display port works great.
The Headphones are comfortable and easy to adjust to your ear position.

Visual Quality:

First thing I saw is my desktop in the WMR app and I thought "Wow is that crisp and clear, what a nice picture". A huge wow effect. I never saw such a great image in VR before, compared to the ones I used day and night difference and now REALLY VR 2.0 and not 1.5!!!
Same thing happened when I started IL-2, the menu....the hangar, just WOW! And then I started a quick mission on Kuban summer map in a FW-190A8.
I saw the cockpit and was hyped. Crystal clear picture every small details easy to see and read. Even small text inside the cockpit was easy to read.....what a difference. In the Spitfire I could even easily read the model number of the gunsight ( very tiny text ).
The colors are much more natural compared to the Rift and OS+. The screen is brighter, with OS+ I used Gamma 1.0, that is too bright with the Reverb, I changed Gamma to 0.9 now.

The black levels inside the Spitfire Mk9 cockpit looked really great and real black, not as I expected from an LCD,  honestly I was not happy when I heard that it will not use OLED, but now after I saw the great picture quality I don't say it´s a disadvantage.

The image contrast is very good.

No screen door effect visible. I did not see any Mura or God Rays or anything else disturbing.

Overall the picture is just great and I saw so many details now of the plane which I never saw before in VR. Mind blowing!

 

Sound Quality:

 

I love the built in Headphones. They are easy to adjust, comfortable and have a very good sound, much much much better than the OS+ and even better than the Rift, which I liked also. 

Sound is powerful and very balanced. Just great for such small headphones.

 

Performance in IL-2:

 

As I said before, Kuban Summer Map, daytime afternoon with a few clouds in the sky. I did use Steam VR SS 150%. Did NOT change any graphic settings in the menu from which I used before with the OS+ and got FPS from 79-90. Most of the time stable 90, but sometimes around 83-85, the lowest I saw was 79. The picture was smooth with no stuttering or flickering. Performs even better for my opinion than the Rift or the OS+, maybe it´s the Display port?????? I am not a PC hardware Geek, I can only say my impressions, but honestly I was surprised how nice the Reverb performs, I expected big FPS drops and stuttering images, but nothing like that happened.

With the Rift using ASW I had worse FPS drops and the picture artifacts and the flickering image inside the german gunsight was horrible, with the Reverb nothing like that happens, everything smooth and crystal clear.

 

That's it for now, I will do much more testing next days, will try some different graphic settings and SS in Steam VR and will try also some Sim Racing titles.....iRacing, Raceroom and Assetto Corsa.

 

I try to install the Steam APP for the FOV test next days aswell.
 

IMG_5463.jpg

Thanks for the review! I’m  so going to upgrade to reverb from the CV1. 

Edited by WhiteMoose
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WhiteMoose, YES you can really upgrade now. Believe me, it is a huge step froward. I did not expect such a big improvement, but it really is.

This device is a game changer.

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Excellent Joe, thanks for the review. The Reverb is my next purchase as soon as it becomes available. My only worry was no IPD adjustment but as in other reviews it appears the good sized sweet spot allows some flexibility,

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Posted (edited)

With the Rift it was sometimes not easy to get the sweet spot and with the Odyssey plus it was even worse, such a small sweet spot. But here now, not a big deal anymore. 

I want to add that ALL the pictures and videos which I have seen online till yesterday, filmed and taken through the lenses with cameras or smartphones does NOT represent in any way what you see with your own eyes, the live image which I see inside the Reverb is much better and sharper than that.

 

I am looking forward to the next reviews here by other community members, especially a more technically in-depth view of Chiliwili69.

I am sure we will get many more positive reviews here about the Reverb and it´s nice image quality.

Edited by spitfirejoe

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Thanks very much for the review spitfirejoe. Reverb is going to be my first headset. The only thing I am worried about is my narrow IPD (57.5 mm). But in another short review Wags from DCS with his IPD 59 mm had no problems. According to the offficial reverb specs, it should allow  63 mm +/- 8 mm (HP Reverb specs) so my IPD should be still in the range. I hope for large sweet spots and good SW IPD control adjustment...

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Posted (edited)

I used the requested Steam App now to find out the FOV.

 

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1359389601

 

Vertical FOV:

if I am in the middle of the black 0 line with my HMD I get without moving my head, but just the eyes up and down a Vertical FOV of LOOKING UP about 45 degrees and LOOKING DOWN about 34 Degrees.

 

Horizontal FOV:

maybe I am doing something wrong.....I try to stand in the middle of the reference point and I get only 84 degrees of horizontal FOV. The app says the Rift has 95 degrees and Vive Pro 100 degrees.

 

The "test room" of this app is amazing, colours are nice and small text very well and easy to read.

 

I hope some others here do the same test about FOV, I would like to compare my own results.

 

By the way.....Steam VR "Video settings" recommends 150% SS for my 1080Ti GPU, which is a resolution according to Steam VR of 1972x1928

Does that mean that I even don´t have the native resolution of 2160x2160 now?

 

Edited by spitfirejoe
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41 minutes ago, spitfirejoe said:

I used the requested Steam App now to find out the FOV.

 

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1359389601

 

Vertical FOV:

if I am in the middle of the black 0 line with my HMD I get without moving my head, but just the eyes up and down a Vertical FOV of LOOKING UP about 45 degrees and LOOKING DOWN about 34 Degrees.

 

Horizontal FOV:

maybe I am doing something wrong.....I try to stand in the middle of the reference point and I get only 84 degrees of horizontal FOV. The app says the Rift has 95 degrees and Vive Pro 100 degrees.

 

The "test room" of this app is amazing, colours are nice and small text very well and easy to read.

 

I hope some others here do the same test about FOV, I would like to compare my own results.

 

By the way.....Steam VR "Video settings" recommends 150% SS for my 1080Ti GPU, which is a resolution according to Steam VR of 1972x1928

Does that mean that I even don´t have the native resolution of 2160x2160 now?

 

 

And if you don't look at the numbers, how are the FOV feeling compared to Rift?

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If I don't look at the numbers.......well, I have the feeling that the FOV is slightly smaller, BUT honestly I sold my Rift 7 weeks ago or so. I did not use the Rift after I bought the Odyssey plus. 

I would say that the FOV is NOT the strength of the Reverb, but I use it only for IL-2 and Sim Racing and as a virtual racer I imagine wearing a race helmet, the race drivers don't have a bigger FOV under their helmets, so for me the FOV is not a problem.

 

In other words it looks a bit like looking through binoculars.

 

IF you prefer the biggest FOV and it is YOUR #1 priority, don't buy the Reverb,

But if you are looking for a comfortable HMD, which has the best screen and best resolution with clear image never seen before in VR. Go for the Reverb.

 

I am blown away....I just tested iRacing now with it. The car.....the track....all details....AMAZING AMAZING.....and the SOUND, blown away. Never had such a crisp image with a great sound before in VR. I LOVE the REVERB......the performance is also great, NO FPS drops in iRacing with Graphic settings of high detail, just amazing!

 

Big Thanks to HP and thumbs up.

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@spitfirejoThanks for a great review!

 

Yea, I have been hearing about the wire issue which is a bummer as the thick wire in my Vive is pretty annoying as well. Surprised to hear about the colour contrast as many others have said otherwise. I hope you don't mind if I link your post on the DCS forums.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, spitfirejoe said:

If I don't look at the numbers.......well, I have the feeling that the FOV is slightly smaller, BUT honestly I sold my Rift 7 weeks ago or so. I did not use the Rift after I bought the Odyssey plus. 

I would say that the FOV is NOT the strength of the Reverb, but I use it only for IL-2 and Sim Racing and as a virtual racer I imagine wearing a race helmet, the race drivers don't have a bigger FOV under their helmets, so for me the FOV is not a problem.

 

In other words it looks a bit like looking through binoculars.

 

IF you prefer the biggest FOV and it is YOUR #1 priority, don't buy the Reverb,

But if you are looking for a comfortable HMD, which has the best screen and best resolution with clear image never seen before in VR. Go for the Reverb.

 

I am blown away....I just tested iRacing now with it. The car.....the track....all details....AMAZING AMAZING.....and the SOUND, blown away. Never had such a crisp image with a great sound before in VR. I LOVE the REVERB......the performance is also great, NO FPS drops in iRacing with Graphic settings of high detail, just amazing!

 

Big Thanks to HP and thumbs up.

 

Probably the smaller FOV is one reason for the surprizingly good performance you mentioned in your review. Less objects to render at the same time.

 

Thanks for sharing your experience with the Reverb.  

 

 

 

EDIT: Special thanks for sharing the shop you ordered from. I checked and they ship to my country for 560 € incl shipping. Just for reference: I payed 740 € for the Rift CV1 when it launched (one sensor, no controllers).

 

I would have never found that shop with google. 

 

I'm not saying I am ordering right away, but the upgrade options are growing which is great.

Edited by HunDread
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HunDred, where do you live? Amazing, for 560€ it would be a no brainer for me.

 

I just benchmarked Assetto Corsa right now, with very high graphic settings I got stable 90 FPS. I can post a picture as a prove how well and smooth the Reverb performs.

 

 

IMG_5465.jpg

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, spitfirejoe said:

If I don't look at the numbers.......well, I have the feeling that the FOV is slightly smaller, BUT honestly I sold my Rift 7 weeks ago or so. I did not use the Rift after I bought the Odyssey plus. 

 I would say that the FOV is NOT the strength of the Reverb, but I use it only for IL-2 and Sim Racing and as a virtual racer I imagine wearing a race helmet, the race drivers don't have a bigger FOV under their helmets, so for me the FOV is not a problem.

 

In other words it looks a bit like looking through binoculars.

 

IF you prefer the biggest FOV and it is YOUR #1 priority, don't buy the Reverb,

But if you are looking for a comfortable HMD, which has the best screen and best resolution with clear image never seen before in VR. Go for the Reverb.

 

I am blown away....I just tested iRacing now with it. The car.....the track....all details....AMAZING AMAZING.....and the SOUND, blown away. Never had such a crisp image with a great sound before in VR. I LOVE the REVERB......the performance is also great, NO FPS drops in iRacing with Graphic settings of high detail, just amazing!

 

Big Thanks to HP and thumbs up.

 

Thanks a lot for your opinions! I currently use the Rift in IL-2, DCS and X plane so especially in IL-2 and DCS the FOV feels important to me. Will probably buy Valve Index due to the bigger FOV if the image clarity of that is not miles away from this.

 

@spitfirejoe What computer specs do you have btw?

Edited by frosen

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My specs are:

 

i7-8700k   

1080Ti

32 GB RAM 

SSD 

 

 An i9-9900k with an RTX2080Ti would be perfect right now, but I will upgrade not before the next GPU generation after the 2080Ti.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, spitfirejoe said:

My specs are:

 

i7-8700k   

1080Ti

32 GB RAM 

SSD 

 

 An i9-9900k with an RTX2080Ti would be perfect right now, but I will upgrade not before the next GPU generation after the 2080Ti.

Thank you for the detailed review! 

Do you see any moire in your set? In my reverb I do, looks like a pattern of dust covering quite a bit of the view. It is particularly noticable when looking at light areas like the sky. The moire pattern moves together with your head, exactly like some faint dirt on your glasses would. Do you have that at all?

Edited by 89-

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17 hours ago, spitfirejoe said:

I came back home late today from my vacation trip and had ONLY 30 minutes time to do a quick first test with the Reverb and IL-2 BoX using the Kuban map and a FW-190A8 and a Spitfire MK9 in some quick missions.

My System:
- i7-8700k
- 1080Ti
- 32Gb Ram 

I owned the Vive Pro, Oculus Rift CV1 and last the Odyssey Plus. I never tried or experienced the old Vive or a Pimax 5k plus or 8k. So I can only compare with the 3 HMD´s I owned and used before.

VERY FIRST Impressions:

The installation was easy and quick, actually NOTHING to install, because I used the OS+ WMR before.

Reverb itself:

The Reverb is very small, much smaller than I expected, very light weight. It is smaller than a Rift.
I love the design, the baseball cap design in wearing. It is very solid, the comfort on my head is superb and fits easy.
I love the leather VR cover, very comfortable. My nose is happy now, because the nose is free and nothing squeezes, my OS+ hurt while wearing it, Reverb does not at all.
The cable is very thick and heavy, that was better with the Rift, but I like that it does not use HDMI of the GPU.
Display port works great.
The Headphones are comfortable and easy to adjust to your ear position.

I like that the Reverb is easy to lift up in my face, like lifting a sunglass. That makes it easy in IL-2 to watch my keypad. With the OS+ that did not work that great.

Visual Quality:

First thing I saw is my desktop in the WMR app and I thought "Wow is that crisp and clear, what a nice picture". A huge wow effect. I never saw such a great image in VR before, compared to the ones I used day and night difference and now REALLY VR 2.0 and not 1.5!!!
Same thing happened when I started IL-2, the menu....the hangar, just WOW! And then I started a quick mission on Kuban summer map in a FW-190A8.
I saw the cockpit and was hyped. Crystal clear picture every small details easy to see and read. Even small text inside the cockpit was easy to read.....what a difference. In the Spitfire I could even easily read the model number of the gunsight ( very tiny text ).
The colors are much more natural compared to the Rift and OS+. The screen is brighter, with OS+ I used Gamma 1.0, that is too bright with the Reverb, I changed Gamma to 0.9 now.

The black levels inside the Spitfire Mk9 cockpit looked really great and real black, not as I expected from an LCD,  honestly I was not happy when I heard that it will not use OLED, but now after I saw the great picture quality I don't say it´s a disadvantage.

The image contrast is very good.

No screen door effect visible. I did not see any Mura or God Rays or anything else disturbing.

Overall the picture is just great and I saw so many details now of the plane which I never saw before in VR. Mind blowing!

My IPD is 63mm, so for me the prefect fit.

Sweet spot.........honestly I had no problem at all with that, sweet spot is bigger than in Vive Pro, Rift and OS+.

 

Sound Quality:

 

I love the built in Headphones. They are easy to adjust, comfortable and have a very good sound, much much much better than the OS+ and even better than the Rift, which I liked also. 

Sound is powerful and very balanced. Just great for such small headphones.

 

Performance in IL-2:

 

As I said before, Kuban Summer Map, daytime afternoon with a few clouds in the sky. I did use Steam VR SS 150%. Did NOT change any graphic settings in the menu from which I used before with the OS+ and got FPS from 79-90. Most of the time stable 90, but sometimes around 83-85, the lowest I saw was 79. The picture was smooth with no stuttering or flickering. Performs even better for my opinion than the Rift or the OS+, maybe it´s the Display port?????? I am not a PC hardware Geek, I can only say my impressions, but honestly I was surprised how nice the Reverb performs, I expected big FPS drops and stuttering images, but nothing like that happened.

With the Rift using ASW I had worse FPS drops and the picture artifacts and the flickering image inside the german gunsight was horrible, with the Reverb nothing like that happens, everything smooth and crystal clear.

The tracking was also working very solid, no problems for sitting simulation guys like us. I will not use it for other VR games using room scale and moving around with the controllers, so for me the WMR concept is good and really my cup of tea. 

 

That's it for now, I will do much more testing next days, will try some different graphic settings and SS in Steam VR and will try also some Sim Racing titles.....iRacing, Raceroom and Assetto Corsa.

 

I try to install the Steam APP for the FOV test next days aswell.
 

IMG_5463.jpg

Many thanks for this complete review-I look forward to my set coming from Amazon in the near future...In the meantime I’ll give Pimax 5K a try. I have a feeling it might boil down to FoV versus clarity & absence of SDE.I plan to do a lot of flying Flying Circus where being able to easily checking six is pretty darned important...

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, spitfirejoe said:

I came back home late today from my vacation trip and had...

 

Thx for the quick review. Im impressed and I’ll start to think about HP Reverb Pro also.

Can You check this or notice it here:

 

- does it present here any ghosing effect? Did You notice double target for example (plane moving to your position, head to head)

- do you have Flying circus? Did you notice artifacts beteween moving proppeler and gunsight?

- the colimated gunsight (of WW2 fighters) looks ok with Reverb?

Edited by YoYo

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33 minutes ago, YoYo said:

Thx for the quick review. Im impressed and I’ll start to think about HP Reverb Pro also.

Can You check this or notice it here:

 

- does it present here any ghosing effect? Did You notice double target for example (plane moving to your position, head to head)

- do you have Flying circus? Did you notice artifacts beteween moving proppeler and gunsight?

- the colimated gunsight (of WW2 fighters) looks ok with Reverb?

 

Hello YoYo, I will try to check all that later, I will come back to you then.

Yes I have Flying Circus, but did not check it with the Reverb. Today I did check only 3 different Sim Racing titles and all 3 work and look fine.

 

Next, I will test Flying Circus and IL-2 a bit more. But yesterday in IL-2 I did not notice any ghosting. Artifacts between moving props and gunsight I had with my Rift when using ASW, especially in planes with German Gunsight. That was super annoying, with the Odyssey plus those artifacts did not happen and yesterday in the FW-190A8 I did not have any artifacts aswell, so I do not expect any in Flying Circus. But I will check of course.

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Very useful and interesting review spitfirejoe.  Thankyou very much.:salute:

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55 minutes ago, 89- said:

Thank you for the detailed review! 

Do you see any moire in your set? In my reverb I do, looks like a pattern of dust covering quite a bit of the view. It is particularly noticable when looking at light areas like the sky. The moire pattern moves together with your head, exactly like some faint dirt on your glasses would. Do you have that at all?

 

Hello 89-

 

moire effect? Well, I know what you mean and yes that is visible very subtle, not much. As you say especially when you look at bright scenes, like into the sky. But you have that also in an Odyssey plus. For me personally that is not anything which is disturbing or bad.

 

The only downside for me is the thick, heavy cable which is not very flexible in bending and maybe a slightly smaller FOV than in the Rift.

 

What about your impression with the Reverb, which PC specs do you have and which HMD did you use before?

Would be nice to hear some more impressions from you. 

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, spitfirejoe said:

 

Hello 89-

 

moire effect? Well, I know what you mean and yes that is visible very subtle, not much. As you say especially when you look at bright scenes, like into the sky. But you have that also in an Odyssey plus. For me personally that is not anything which is disturbing or bad.

 

The only downside for me is the thick, heavy cable which is not very flexible in bending and maybe a slightly smaller FOV than in the Rift.

 

What about your impression with the Reverb, which PC specs do you have and which HMD did you use before?

Would be nice to hear some more impressions from you. 

I meant mura of course, sorry. Moire is is also an optical side-effect, but thankfully not present in VR.

 

My PC is identical to yours, and my conclusions are also very similar, bar a few bits like the audio. Audio is definitely worse than CV1 for me, but a step up from RiftS. But, overall I completely agree that Reverb's performance is unexpectedly good and its sharpness being excellent when compeared to RiftCV1 and RiftS.

 

One other little niggle is a occasional flickering in one of the screens for about 10 seconds after starting WMR and going straight to game. Do you have that too?

 

 

Edited by 89-

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4 hours ago, spitfirejoe said:

HunDred, where do you live? Amazing, for 560€ it would be a no brainer for me.

 

 

I live in Hungary. If it was more expensive for you, probably I just don't see some hidden expenses but this is what the checkout page shows:

 

image.png.5625cb8c2aa5d395f38591789526fcc9.png

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@ 89-

 

No...MURA is no factor for me, I don't see that. And about the sound, that might be really because of personal preferences, I remember really good how the Rift CV1 did sound, I liked it, but the Reverb does better FOR ME, the sound is well balanced about high mid and low frequencies and very well present. The engines do sound much better for me now.

 

And flickering in the screens, no I don't have that! I ONLY have flickering in the screens if I lock the screen to 60Hz in the Windows Mixed Reality software menu. I tried 60Hz today and that is not my cup of tea, only then I get some light flickering. I use 90Hz and there is no flickering at all, maybe you check that in WMR software.

 

@HunDread 

 

I paid exactly 677,12€ so very strange that it would be cheaper for you. But lucky you then. 216€ cheaper is really a great deal.

 

 

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12 minutes ago, spitfirejoe said:

No...MURA is no factor for me, I don't see that.

Sorry, you said that

1 hour ago, spitfirejoe said:

Well, I know what you mean and yes that is visible very subtle, not much. As you say especially when you look at bright scenes, like into the sky. But you have that also in an Odyssey plus. For me personally that is not anything which is disturbing or bad.

 

So do you have this? :

1 hour ago, spitfirejoe said:

looks like a pattern of dust covering quite a bit of the view. It is particularly noticable when looking at light areas like the sky. The mura[corrected from moire]/dust pattern moves together with your head, exactly like some faint dirt on your glasses would.

It's not a very strong effect, but it is there for me and I'm wondering if it's a general problem with the Reverbs...

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Posted (edited)

I am not a native english speaker, so I maybe misunderstood what you mean with moira!?

I see very subtle a small call it "net" which is moving with the HMD when moving the head, as said before, more visible looking into bright sky for instance. But I had that with all other HMD´s which I owned before, this is NOT Mura and I even don't know how to call that.

 

 

Edited by spitfirejoe

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Yep, we are talking about the same thing I think. Basically it looks like we have some faint semitransparent dirt on our glasses that moves with our viewpoint, unlike screendoor that stays fixed independent of our viewpoint. Explained here for example: 

https://www.roadtovr.com/whats-the-difference-between-screen-door-effect-sde-mura-aliasing-vr-headset/

and here for PSVR

persistent_mura_effecthttps://www.reddit.com/r/PSVR/comments/8jy8fc/persistent_mura_effect/

 

I personally never noticed this effect in CV1 or RiftS, but you say you had it with Odyssey? In reverb it is pretty apparent - the sky, or the winter Stalingrad make want to clean the glasses :)  I agree that it is not a deal breaker, and nowhere near as bad as the screendoor on past gen HMDs, but Reverb would be better without it still.

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In order to run the Reverb at its native resolution, you must set steam vr to 188% in order to achieve that.......

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Posted (edited)

So, last review after testing more IL-2 today.

 

I want to answer some questions and requests.

I used Steam VR SS 188% today ( recommended for my 1080Ti is 150% ) to see how it performs with it´s native resolution. I did not change my graphic settings ( maybe I have to take a pic of those later ). I flew Kuban Map again, because that is the map which costs most performance I guess. Summerday afternoon and used a Bf-109K-4. The performance was still very smooth with the 188% SS, but I got less FPS. Mostly around 80 FPS and the lowest I saw was 58 FPS. Even with those drops and some bumps below 60 FPS there was no stuttering. I remember using the Rift with ASW, when I had frame drops, I got stuttering.

I just don't understand why the performance is smoother than with other HMD´s? Maybe someone can explain.

 

No ghosting when flying head to head to AI enemies, no prop gunsight artifacts, also I tried that with a FOKKER D VII and the day colimated gunsight, no problems with that.

Then I tried a night mission, taking off in the Bf109 at 23:30 with half moon. Looked very nice in the dark. The fluorescent instruments are perfectly readable.

 

The picture with 188% SS looks really very very nice. Enough from myside now. I want to hear others opinions next time.

 

The ONLY thing which I don't like till now is the thick and heavy cable, smaller FOV is my trade for the crisp image.

Edited by spitfirejoe
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51 minutes ago, spitfirejoe said:

So, last review after testing more IL-2 today.

 

I want to answer some questions and requests.

I used Steam VR SS 188% today ( recommended for my 1080Ti is 150% ) to see how it performs with it´s native resolution. I did not change my graphic settings ( maybe I have to take a pic of those later ). I flew Kuban Map again, because that is the map which costs most performance I guess. Summerday afternoon and used a Bf-109K-4. The performance was still very smooth with the 188% SS, but I got less FPS. Mostly around 80 FPS and the lowest I saw was 58 FPS. Even with those drops and some bumps below 60 FPS there was no stuttering. I remember using the Rift with ASW, when I had frame drops, I got stuttering.

I just don't understand why the performance is smoother than with other HMD´s? Maybe someone can explain.

 

No ghosting when flying head to head to AI enemies, no prop gunsight artifacts, also I tried that with a FOKKER D VII and the day colimated gunsight, no problems with that.

Then I tried a night mission, taking off in the Bf109 at 23:30 with half moon. Looked very nice in the dark. The fluorescent instruments are perfectly readable.

 

The picture with 188% SS looks really very very nice. Enough from myside now. I want to hear others opinions next time.

 

The ONLY thing which I don't like till now is the thick and heavy cable, smaller FOV is my trade for the crisp image.

 

I can fly with the Rift with ASW off and at lower drops in FPS do not get stuttering unless it gets below around 45 fps.

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Posted (edited)

The switch when ASW fires from 90Hz to 45Hz is something IL-2 doesn't like. Since it's off, you don't experience any of that. It's better to let it drop smoothly and aim for 90Hz/72Hz or 60Hz if you have that option :)

 

The lower Hz rates are also lighter on the CPU. The precision it has to calculate per second is why :)

Edited by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

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9 hours ago, spitfirejoe said:

So, last review after testing more IL-2 today.

 

Thx! So.... perhaps I'll buy the first my VR headset! :dance:

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, spitfirejoe said:

So, last review after testing more IL-2 today.

 

I want to answer some questions and requests.

I used Steam VR SS 188% today ( recommended for my 1080Ti is 150% ) to see how it performs with it´s native resolution. I did not change my graphic settings ( maybe I have to take a pic of those later ). I flew Kuban Map again, because that is the map which costs most performance I guess. Summerday afternoon and used a Bf-109K-4. The performance was still very smooth with the 188% SS, but I got less FPS. Mostly around 80 FPS and the lowest I saw was 58 FPS. Even with those drops and some bumps below 60 FPS there was no stuttering. I remember using the Rift with ASW, when I had frame drops, I got stuttering.

I just don't understand why the performance is smoother than with other HMD´s? Maybe someone can explain.

 

No ghosting when flying head to head to AI enemies, no prop gunsight artifacts, also I tried that with a FOKKER D VII and the day colimated gunsight, no problems with that.

Then I tried a night mission, taking off in the Bf109 at 23:30 with half moon. Looked very nice in the dark. The fluorescent instruments are perfectly readable.

 

The picture with 188% SS looks really very very nice. Enough from myside now. I want to hear others opinions next time.

 

The ONLY thing which I don't like till now is the thick and heavy cable, smaller FOV is my trade for the crisp image.

Thank you for your review! 

Could you please check  what is about the view distance? Can you recognize the other aircrafts from a greater distance? I use a Lenovo Explorer and my biggest problem is the blurry image so that I can see the enemy when it is very close to me.

Thanks in advance!

Edited by airsheep

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

The switch when ASW fires from 90Hz to 45Hz is something IL-2 doesn't like. Since it's off, you don't experience any of that. It's better to let it drop smoothly and aim for 90Hz/72Hz or 60Hz if you have that option :)

 

The lower Hz rates are also lighter on the CPU. The precision it has to calculate per second is why :)

 

Yes, the problem was that when I used my Rift with IL-2 was a while ago. I always used ASW, because I thought at that time it would be impossible to do it without ASW.

I got such sudden Framedrops to about 45 FPS and got stuttering. I was very annoyed by those mentioned gunsight artifacts while using the Rift, got that ONLY with the Rift and not with OS+ or Reverb.

 

As mentioned many times before, my biggest surprise was not the clear nice picture inside the Reverb, but the great smooth performance with my 1080Ti using high graphic settings. I used the same Graphic settings as with the Odyssey plus and got better and smoother performance than with the Rift and OS+ and I guess that has something to do with a slightly smaller FOV ( less FOV=less pixels to render ) and with the Display port. I am very happy that the Reverb does not use HDMI port, seems to work better.

 

Yesterday I did test mostly 3 Sim Racing titles, iRacing, Raceroom and Assetto Corsa and with all 3 sim games I had smooth and great performance by using very high graphic settings. As MRTV and others mentioned before.....THIS HMD is really shining by using it sitting on a chair or in a rig "playing"  racing and flight simulation titles.

 

Later today I want to play IL-2 online trying to if I can spot enemies better now in VR, testing the far distant looking performance.

 

 

 

Edited by spitfirejoe

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, spitfirejoe said:

The only downside for me is the thick, heavy cable which is not very flexible in bending and maybe a slightly smaller FOV than in the Rift.

 

Some people have had some improvements by doing this with zip ties:

 

2LAxnQD.jpg

 

 

 

9 hours ago, spitfirejoe said:

I just don't understand why the performance is smoother than with other HMD´s? Maybe someone can explain.

 

That's a complicated discussion but essentially its because the gen 1 headsets require a lot of super sampling just to get to their native resolutions. So when you run the Reverb at its native 2160x2160 resolution, you aren't going much above other headsets.

 

This might sound ridiculous but it's not and you can test it out for yourself. For example, I use 180% SteamVR SS for my Vive and that comes to 2028x2252 (so I am already pushing the same amount of pixels as I need to for the Reverb). And at  100% SteamVR SS you get 1512x1680. But that is NOT the native res of the Vive, which should be 1080x1200. Proof of all this is attached below.

 

 

image.png.18af10609f0811ace3f3308bbb6e44d4.png

 

image.png.533e8dc37fc9e80a3258ceb1005fabaf.png

 

So why is the default resolution higher than the actual headset resolution in the Gen 1 headsets? It is to achieve something called barrel distortion which is a corrective technique to get rid of the pincushion distortion effect which is an inherent phenomenon in most VR headsets because of the shape of their lenses. The amount of correction required depends on the shape of the lens and other factors and it seems that you apparently don't need much of it for the Reverb. 

 

Here is some info on the theory by HTC:

https://hub.vive.com/storage/app/doc/en-us/DistortionCorrectionTheory.html

 

In conclusion, you are pushing the same amount of pixels, but Reverb has actual pixels and it look clearer, while in Gen 1 headsets all those super sampled pixels still need to be displayed on a physical display that is 1080x1200. All that super sampling does is change what colour each pixel should display so it can have a positive effect but can never match the benefits of actually having more physical pixels. 

Edited by Panthera_Tigris
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Panthera_Tigris, thanks for your input, did not know about that pincushion distortion effect, very interesting.

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On 6/8/2019 at 11:17 AM, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

 

Yes, I used this tool in the past to measure FOV of Rift. Apparently there is not too many options out there to measure FOV.

 

The team of ROV used that tool to measure FOV of the Pimax5K+: https://www.realovirtual.com/articulos/5246/pimax-5k-analisis

 

There is also another tool for FOV measurement which I still have not used: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=692977852

It was used in this review of the Pimax5K+:  https://forum.pimaxvr.com/t/vrman66-pimax-5k-review-impressions-and-measurements/18527

Revealing the true FOV of the Pimax5K+

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