Jump to content
RedKestrel

Trouble staying coordinated in turns

Recommended Posts

Lately, as I fly a wider variety of aircraft, I'm noticing that I'm having more and more trouble staying coordinated during turns and maneuvers. I notice it more now as I've changed my setup at my desk a bit, but its always been a bit of an issue. I know the general principles of countering adverse yaw, p-factor, etc, in flight, it seems that my inputs are either too much or not enough.

So I'd like any tips you have. Specifically
-Rudder inputs throughout the turn - do you gradually increase the rudder inputs as you enter the turn, and then gradually decrease, or do you keep the rudder input steady throughout the bank? Do you find you have to keep applying rudder throughout the turn? etc.
-Set-up. I use CH pedals and they have a very noticeable detent when centred, it makes it hard to make small inputs. Does anyone else have these pedals, and can share how they've setup the sensitivity and deadzone? Currently my deadzone is about 5% and my sensitivity setting is 40%. But this seems to hit the non-sweet spot of being too sensitive for planes that need very light rudder inputs and not sensitive enough for heavier planes that need bigger inputs. 
-Tips for twitchy craft. I find the MiG-3 has a very strong rudder - just barely touching it is often enough to make the ball jump. The Yak-7B also seems very twitchy, compared to the Yak-1 which I find needs quite a bit of rudder.

Any help is appreciated, this is something I really want to work on and intend to practice more, but I want to make sure I'm not wasting time with a wonky setup or misconceptions.

Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

 

I've moved from twist stick to rudder pedals about 2 weeks ago and I can share my observations.

 

My pedals are an old set called Thrustmaster "Rudder Control System" and have a pretty wide base, no detent and fairly strong spring (flying the 109 in formation feels like a workout after 30 minutes). I use linear sensitivity and no dead zone, they are pretty sensitive and usually only a small movement is needed to correct the ball. I have them at a position that similar to what I'm used to when driving my car.

 

At first it was difficult for me to get used to but now they feel more "natural" than the twist stick, my movements have gotten smoother and it is much easier to keep the crosshairs on target, especially when leading moving ground targets.

 

I apply pressure on the pedals gently, in small increments, much slower than what I was used to with the stick. When possible, I set the trackIR to be looking slightly down so that I'd be able to keep an eye on the ball and just gently step on it when it moves off center. With gentle corrections I have noticed that the violent wing stalls in 109 occur much less often, the plane feels much smoother and controllable at near-stall speed and high angle of attack.

 

I'd describe the motion as a continuous movement of the axis, with one foot pushing forward and the other pulling back, similar to guiding a steering wheel through a road curve. Using dead zone and exponential scale like you would break the continuity, IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, OpticFlow said:

Hi,

 

I've moved from twist stick to rudder pedals about 2 weeks ago and I can share my observations.

 

My pedals are an old set called Thrustmaster "Rudder Control System" and have a pretty wide base, no detent and fairly strong spring (flying the 109 in formation feels like a workout after 30 minutes). I use linear sensitivity and no dead zone, they are pretty sensitive and usually only a small movement is needed to correct the ball. I have them at a position that similar to what I'm used to when driving my car.

 

At first it was difficult for me to get used to but now they feel more "natural" than the twist stick, my movements have gotten smoother and it is much easier to keep the crosshairs on target, especially when leading moving ground targets.

 

I apply pressure on the pedals gently, in small increments, much slower than what I was used to with the stick. When possible, I set the trackIR to be looking slightly down so that I'd be able to keep an eye on the ball and just gently step on it when it moves off center. With gentle corrections I have noticed that the violent wing stalls in 109 occur much less often, the plane feels much smoother and controllable at near-stall speed and high angle of attack.

 

I'd describe the motion as a continuous movement of the axis, with one foot pushing forward and the other pulling back, similar to guiding a steering wheel through a road curve. Using dead zone and exponential scale like you would break the continuity, IMO.

Thanks for the reply. When I played il2 1946 I had linear progression on the axis and it worked fine. But this sim models yaw effects a lot more/ better and the differences between the planes is larger. 

Without the deadzone I seem to lose any precision whatsoever, because the small amount of force needed to overcome the detent means that I push past the amount i need to correct. I have a feeling if the detent was not there, or had a weaker spring, it would be easier for smoother motions.

I think I'm going to try going back to linear inputs and play around with the deadzone to get the minimum. The sensitivity curve may be throwing me off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Try to apply rudder without even looking at the ball (or the needle in case you fly Spitfires). When starting your turn, apply both rudder and aileron smoothly, but decisively, and at the same time. Also apply a little elevator to keep the nose from dropping. Watch as the cowling starts moving across the horizon. That's your turn indicator. While turning, take quick glances at the ball occasionally and apply corrections if necessary. This method will help you develop your hand/foot coordination.

 

In RL pilots not too many pilots try to fly turns by looking at the turn indicator. Even in IMC they would look at the ball only as part of the instrument scan which focuses on the AI.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, andyw248 said:

Try to apply rudder without even looking at the ball (or the needle in case you fly Spitfires). When starting your turn, apply both rudder and aileron smoothly, but decisively, and at the same time. Also apply a little elevator to keep the nose from dropping. Watch as the cowling starts moving across the horizon. That's your turn indicator. While turning, take quick glances at the ball occasionally and apply corrections if necessary. This method will help you develop your hand/foot coordination.

 

In RL pilots not too many pilots try to fly turns by looking at the turn indicator. Even in IMC they would look at the ball only as part of the instrument scan which focuses on the AI.

Thanks, I’ll give that a try. Some of the trouble I’m having is I think because I changed to a seat that’s a little higher so my muscle memory on the pedals is a bit off. I probably just need to spend some time relearning some basic flying skills ina few planes to get sorted again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just as an update to this topic:

Settings: I've reset my rudder sensitivity to 0 so that rudder inputs are purely linear. There are pros and cons to this but while sensitivity curves seem to help with the twitchier craft it makes planes that need heavy rudder inputs very difficult to fly without a lot of rudder movement. It also makes it hard to judge just how much rudder to use in any given situation. I've left the deadzone in place because the detent/resistance in the middle of the range of motion means that the absolute smallest movement I can do is too big for the smallest input I need to be able to do in the twitchy planes (if that makes sense). Im going to play with the deadzone a bit more to narrow it down as much as possible.

I'm improving I think, back to where I was before getting the new chair. I've been able to fly a bit more lately but been jumping around to different aircraft has made it difficult to really progress. I need to spend more time in familiarization flights and work on basics.

Thanks to everyone who replied!

Edited by RedKestrel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You really just get use to it eventually, some planes even have crazy yaw effects when climbing hard or diving hard, the 109 in a dive yaws right or left? The ball goes left hard, when climbing its the opposite, I love the yaw effects in this game, going back to 1946 or even clod and watching as the ball barely moves in hard maneuvers I really don't understand how people can say either of those games have better flight models. The planes don't yaw in either one of those games, almost at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, JonRedcorn said:

You really just get use to it eventually, some planes even have crazy yaw effects when climbing hard or diving hard, the 109 in a dive yaws right or left? The ball goes left hard, when climbing its the opposite, I love the yaw effects in this game, going back to 1946 or even clod and watching as the ball barely moves in hard maneuvers I really don't understand how people can say either of those games have better flight models. The planes don't yaw in either one of those games, almost at all.

Yeah, I was able to stay coordinated much more easily in most maneuvers in Il-2 1946. The yaw effects were there but were modeled much more simply IMO, especially adverse yaw and yaw tendency in dives.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...