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1PL-Lucas-1Esk

Fokker D.VII bug (present in RoF, too)

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With the release of Fokker D.VII, I took her for a spin to test the flying characteristics. After I climbed to 2000 meters, I performed a test to check a bug I found long time ago:

 

1. When level flying, reduce throttle to zero

2. The RPM's should drop to about 450

3. Keep the plane on level flying

4. Once you will be on stall speed, begin a dive

5. Note that, even if you will be flying at 200 kph or so, the rpm gauge will stay at 450rpm and you will not overrev your engine :)

 

Could you test it as well, please? This is a note to Mr. @AnPetrovich

Maybe some FM inspection in the future could solve this?

 

Best regards,

Lucas

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Hi!

there was the answer:
 

On 11/26/2018 at 3:49 AM, Jason_Williams said:

Guys,

 

We're not revisiting all WWI FMs. There is no time and is not needed. Petrovich is talking about a specific issue we didn't like the outcome of long ago. Any work on WWI FMs would be outside is current tasks which primarily involve new technologies and content for WWII. As he explained the FC WWI birds are not just a straight port, but a slight upgrade from ROF, but a wholesale re-vamp of all or most WWI FMs is not happening. Please moderate your expectations and Petrovich made no promises.

 

Jason

 

S!

 

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3 hours ago, AnPetrovich said:

Hi!

there was the answer:

 

 

As an unarguable bug rather than a subjective issue, one could argue that this could be classed as a bug fix rather than a revision. One could also argue that arguing such a case has been shown to be pointless, so I won't.

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12 hours ago, AnPetrovich said:

Guys,

 

We're not revisiting all WWI FMs. There is no time and is not needed. Petrovich is talking about a specific issue we didn't like the outcome of long ago. Any work on WWI FMs would be outside is current tasks which primarily involve new technologies and content for WWII. As he explained the FC WWI birds are not just a straight port, but a slight upgrade from ROF, but a wholesale re-vamp of all or most WWI FMs is not happening. Please moderate your expectations and Petrovich made no promises.

 

Jason

 

@AnPetrovich, @Jason_Williams

 

It's great that you are communicating this openly with us.

 

Regarding the Fokker Dr.I (not the D.VII), is there still a chance you will revert to the old FM (RoF store page) or use @Chill31's data for an FM review?

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Sorry, but charging $70 for what is, essentially, a re-issue of RoF rather does demand a bit more than just higher-rez textures and one new map. It certainly demands that old bugs that were never addressed in RoF be addressed in FC. 

But I guess the low take-up of FC proves most potential buyers have already made that judgement and acted accordingly.

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Uffz-Prien said:

Sorry, but charging $70 for what is, essentially, a re-issue of RoF rather does demand a bit more than just higher-rez textures and one new map. It certainly demands that old bugs that were never addressed in RoF be addressed in FC. 

But I guess the low take-up of FC proves most potential buyers have already made that judgement and acted accordingly.

 

Need to play devil's advocate here:

 

  • It's a port to a better 64bit engine, better overal flight simulation and with more quality of life improvements to follow (lobby etc.)
     
  • Higher textures and new player models and animations
     
  • A new WWI frontline map of Arras
     
  • Improved damage model
     
  • Parachutes
     
  • VR
     

In that respect, $70 is a pretty good deal for a remaster / definitive edition, considering how small the market is. People were outraged at the Dark Souls Remaster last year because it didn't fix many of the the bugs, and that was one of the best selling games of 2018. This, by comparison, is the nichest of niche flightsims.

 

That doesn't mean I agree with everything, especially when it comes to reworking (or not reworking) certain FMs, as that may actually hurt multiplayer in both the short and long term — but it is what it is.

 

 

Again, when competition enters the WWI flightsim market or when and if Rise of Flight ever gets the Team Daidalos treatment as IL-2 1946 did to correct longstanding issues and add more planes, then we can start making demands. For now, I would keep it civil and constructive.

Edited by Hellbender
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Posted (edited)

The only thing I've really noticed that's different from RoF is the VR, on account of I bought the hardware required and can rather obviously see the difference, like being hit in the melon with a huge Monty Python fish. Lol. Would I have paid $70 just for that bit of code upgrade, especially knowing that a lot of games that were never coded for VR can be made to work with it with 3rd-party software anyway? Possibly, but then seeing the 2D monitor output being a double-screen would have made me think too little care was being given to the enterprise. For most that probably doesn't matter, but for those who like making youtube videos it's rather a biggie. Still not fixed, no idea why not because apparently it didn't used to be that way.

The new map is what I'm most looking forward to but the RoF one was no slouch. So yeah, given that most of the improvements are next to invisible to the general eye it is a bit hard to ascertain $70's worth of price. However, if a revenue stream can't be maintained for the devs we wouldn't be getting the genuinely new stuff (BP and Tanks), which is why I handed over $140 for BP and FC.

 

Edited by Uffz-Prien

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42 minutes ago, Hellbender said:

 

@AnPetrovich, @Jason_Williams

 

It's great that you are communicating this openly with us.

 

Regarding the Fokker Dr.I (not the D.VII), is there still a chance you will revert to the old FM (RoF store page) or use @Chill31's data for an FM review?

It has been many years in the making, but I am about to have some wonderful data for WWI historians.  My Fokker Dr.I will fly with 3 engines: 80 hp Le Rhone, 120 hp Le Rhone, 130 hp Clerget.  The biggest modification to my plane is taking place now, subsequent engine swaps will take only an afternoon :)  I should have both the 120 Rhone and 130 Clerget running by year's end.

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Posted (edited)

This means inside the Fokker D7 is the same (less common and weaker) mercedes D.III engine. Pitty. But if there is no resources or time for correcting the things from ROF IM fine with this what we have. Better that than nothing and if it will funs other projects....

Edited by blackram

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2 hours ago, Uffz-Prien said:

So yeah, given that most of the improvements are next to invisible to the general eye it is a bit hard to ascertain $70's worth of price.

 

Do not judge a book by its cover. The very fact that we now have the Rise of Flight engine and (some) planes ported over to 64 bits with VR while retaining compatibility with legacy hardware such as Force Feedback is nothing short of amazing. Many study sims are giving up on older tech. The next generation of flightsims will be VR only with full haptic feedback, which may very well be another decade away, and a new WWI title far more than that. By that time Peter Jackson will have rebuilt the combined inventory of all the air arms and we’ll have new data to base sims on.

 

This is a game that should not exist in this day and age, and yet it does, and it can be yours for $70. Is it expensive? Well, I don’t expect anyone not interested at all in flightsims to pick this up for the hell of it. It’s not Red Baron, which had mainstream appeal. I also don’t expect too many who are into flightsims but do not care much about WWI to try it out of curiosity. It’s not Rise of Flight either, with its F2P and separate plane purchase model. (I’m happy to see F2P go, it was a huge troll account vector) For those who intend to play this game regularly for years to come, it’s dirt cheap.

 

I don’t mean to be a gatekeeper, welcome all newcomers to the community, and even try to lure some people from the top forums over through my own modest means, but it is a niche and it will stay that way.

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When you get into flight simming buying the game is actually the cheapest bit...
 

Hopefully one day the devs will find the time and resources to revisit the FM's but I'm happy enough for now and VR alone made the title worth the money for me.

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3 hours ago, Uffz-Prien said:

Sorry, but charging $70 for what is, essentially, a re-issue of RoF rather does demand a bit more than just higher-rez textures and one new map. It certainly demands that old bugs that were never addressed in RoF be addressed in FC. 

But I guess the low take-up of FC proves most potential buyers have already made that judgement and acted accordingly.

For people that have made a significant investment in RoF, your point is very valid I suppose. (I have not).

 

The way I see it is that the low FC take-up that you are refering to (myself included) is mainly composed by people acting more as crowdfunders rather than regular buyers. Many of us recognize that the market niche is very narrow and the development team is small (this is not Fifa xx, where every year they resell the same game with relatively minor improvements to millions of players - at AAA prices!), and the best way we can see this amazing simulation evolve is by helping with our wallets. Alas, this is unfortunately a catch-22; if more people invested, we would probably see faster and deeper improvements; yet many people wont invest, because of the perception of slow or shallow improvements.  :scratch_one-s_head:

 

Cheers!

4 hours ago, Uffz-Prien said:

 However, if a revenue stream can't be maintained for the devs we wouldn't be getting the genuinely new stuff (BP and Tanks), which is why I handed over $140 for BP and FC.

 

I see you are on the same boat then  😃

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Posted (edited)

Without seeing the books, how can anyone claim "low takeup" of FC?  That may or may not be true, but we, the consumer, don't know if FC is a good seller or a poor seller and can't really be making that claim or using it to support any argument regarding pricing vs value.  We can only make our own personal pricing/value assesment and either buy it, or not buy it, accordingly.

Edited by SeaSerpent
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Well, I don't know about you guys, but I've already had seventy bucks of fun with this.  Yesterday, in fact.

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20 minutes ago, SeaSerpent said:

Without seeing the books, how can anyone claim "low takeup" of FC?  That may or may not be true, but we, the consumer, don't know if FC is a good seller or a poor seller and can't really be making that claim or using it to support any argument regarding pricing vs value.  We can only make our own personal pricing/value assesment and either buy it, or not buy it, accordingly.

 

More than fair point

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, SeaSerpent said:

Without seeing the books, how can anyone claim "low takeup" of FC?  That may or may not be true, but we, the consumer, don't know if FC is a good seller or a poor seller and can't really be making that claim or using it to support any argument regarding pricing vs value.  We can only make our own personal pricing/value assesment and either buy it, or not buy it, accordingly.

 

People said the same thing about ROF for years: "it's not selling well, no one is buying it, yadda yadda yadda." Yet, somehow, it sold quite well enough for it to remain in active development for several years. 

 

(Not to mention, it was always odd to see how so many people back then were actively giving this appearance that they wanted the game to fail). 

 

2 hours ago, Hellbender said:

The very fact that we now have the Rise of Flight engine and (some) planes ported over to 64 bits with VR while retaining compatibility with legacy hardware such as Force Feedback is nothing short of amazing.

 

To be fair, it's not really a port of the engine to 64-bit but rather a transfer of the game to a new engine, since Digital Warfare is considered by 1CGS to be a separate engine. The coding is that different now. 

Edited by LukeFF
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6 hours ago, Uffz-Prien said:

Sorry, but charging $70 for what is, essentially, a re-issue of RoF rather does demand a bit more than just higher-rez textures and one new map. It certainly demands that old bugs that were never addressed in RoF be addressed in FC.

 

My 5 cents are here:

 

On 11/22/2018 at 9:31 PM, AnPetrovich said:

Yes, they ported. But...

We have improved not only 3D models (airplane, cockpit, pilot), but also slightly improved some things in FM, DM, visual and sound effects... For example every FC airplane got the newest gear model from Great Battles (including new amortization model, new wheel model, controllable tail skid on the Camel as well), got many new SFX (engine fire, oil leak, fuel tanks fire and fuel leaks for separate (!) tanks, new wingtips trails), got the new ballistics of bullets, got some improvement in the simulation of the cockpit instruments and controls, got more detailed collision detection with underlying surface, got better gaming helpers, technochat, optimized FM for AI, many small bugs from RoF were also fixed.
So, this is not just a "porting" from RoF. This is somthing "a little" more.

 

____________________

 

6 hours ago, Hellbender said:

is there still a chance .. ?

 

Yes, for sure, there is always a chance...

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Seeing the improvements „under the hood“ from good old RoF to current BoX, I can only shake my head when people repeat the drivel about the aircraft „just“ being ported over, meaning that equals that they are absolutely the same. The improvement is rather drastic and such that FINALLY it mends most side effects of the old game engine that led to „the patch“ to keep players from abusing the game engine such that you can do implausible things with the aircraft.

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I signed up for Flying Circus volume 1 the moment it became available. And can't wait to do the same for volume 2.

Being able to fly these planes in VR is the best experience for me.

 

Yes, I know, it's a personal opinion and the same can be said about me being thankful to Jason and the whole team for giving us this opportunity.

 

Despite quirks etcetera I really hope that the team will continue and have more time/resources in the future to address whatever issues there are. In the meantime I just enjoy this great flying experience!595292963_default_fly1.gif.b72a1555bc15335d72ae6a381e85611d.gif

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