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P47 dogfighter ?

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I just tried flying this for the first time and I can't do anything with it (and I refuse to drop flaps :) ).  It stalls and spins more readily than a 190 - at least in my ham fisted hands.  The speed bleed is tremendous in any kind of maneuver.  Obviously I need to fly it straight more often but man, definitely not a favorite at this point.

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2 hours ago, PatrickAWlson said:

I just tried flying this for the first time and I can't do anything with it

 

I'm in the same boat, honestly. Currently playing it with your mod (which is a godsend), but I can't seem to crack it right. Granted I'm the kind of guy who's flown the La-5 Ser. 8 for eight months without ever learning of the proper way to use it's boost which is a travesty, which is why I keep thinking that there must be something I'm missing here with the engine settings or tactics and such. 

 

I've used it more than the Spitfire IX despite having less overall claims; so it's a personal favorite. I'm just wondering where else should I be looking in terms of best practices for this plane because I feel gimped most of the time; specifically since whether or not I try to fight at altitude, I'm hard-pressed trying to maintain an effective pace against enemies.

 

 

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3 hours ago, MarderIV said:

I've used it more than the Spitfire IX despite having less overall claims; so it's a personal favorite. I'm just wondering where else should I be looking in terms of best practices for this plane because I feel gimped most of the time; specifically since whether or not I try to fight at altitude, I'm hard-pressed trying to maintain an effective pace against enemies.

 

IMHO there are some problems with guns... The Thunderbolt should have option for harmonization patterns for them. They also should be (probably) free-firing but in the sim all 8 are synced. That leaves about 60m distance between every volley of 8 bullets. A fighter sized target can avoid getting hit if it passes bullet stream fast enough. De-sync guns would make it almost impossible to avoid fire that way.

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7 hours ago, PatrickAWlson said:

I just tried flying this for the first time and I can't do anything with it (and I refuse to drop flaps :) ).  It stalls and spins more readily than a 190 - at least in my ham fisted hands.  The speed bleed is tremendous in any kind of maneuver.  Obviously I need to fly it straight more often but man, definitely not a favorite at this point.

Its not easy airplane for beginers, 109s are for that, but when you learn how engine limits work and how you can get around them with still getting good speed its usable even in long missions in SP or MP, but it takes more players time to make it work good then other airplanes so most players will just not use it properly and take other easyer airplanes. 

In server like Berloga where your avradge flights last 5-10min, and you have airstarts, its perfect airplane to have fun no mather of skill level, and kick other airplanes with its power and manoverability, as you can go all max and dont need to wory about engine limitations, you run out of fuel or ammo before you brake engines.

Out of all usa airplanes in game this one is to me best to use, and it has best cockpit for df of any usaf airplane in game.

5 hours ago, MarderIV said:

 

I'm in the same boat, honestly. Currently playing it with your mod (which is a godsend), but I can't seem to crack it right. Granted I'm the kind of guy who's flown the La-5 Ser. 8 for eight months without ever learning of the proper way to use it's boost which is a travesty, which is why I keep thinking that there must be something I'm missing here with the engine settings or tactics and such. 

 

I've used it more than the Spitfire IX despite having less overall claims; so it's a personal favorite. I'm just wondering where else should I be looking in terms of best practices for this plane because I feel gimped most of the time; specifically since whether or not I try to fight at altitude, I'm hard-pressed trying to maintain an effective pace against enemies.

 

 

La5 boost is realy simple, you have 5min of it and you use it up to 6km alt abow that it has no effect. La5 is realy simple airplane to manage its engines, even rads you can have inlet on 100% and outlets on 0% most of flight, if that airplane is hard to master then youll have no chance on P-47 where you have 5-6 things to wory about if they are set correctly and 4-5 differant engine power settings you can use for diff times. USAF airplanes in this game are realy not for begginers, thats why you get most new players flying easy axis airplanes in bobp.

 

PS:

one trick you have on La5 is its supercharger, dont turn sup 2 like spec say at 3,5km, keep sup 1 up to 5km for better performance if your not using boost. And when your using boost you switch to sup 2 on alts abow 3km for better performance.

Edited by 77.CountZero

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On 2/24/2019 at 12:56 PM, Mauf said:

 

 

You just had to beg for this, didn't you:D

 

Haha, that's the very scene I almost quit the film for.. 1st you laugh, 2nd you watch it several times, 3rd you cry (for such a quality about such a serious subject, and want to quit, 4th you see some beauties and keep watching.

All my respect to those black guys who were fighting in USA for their human kindness even before fighting over Europe for the Allies.

Edited by Solmyr
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12 hours ago, PatrickAWlson said:

I just tried flying this for the first time and I can't do anything with it (and I refuse to drop flaps :) ).  It stalls and spins more readily than a 190 - at least in my ham fisted hands.  The speed bleed is tremendous in any kind of maneuver.  Obviously I need to fly it straight more often but man, definitely not a favorite at this point.

 

It does unexpected things, and I'm finding I really need to be aware of the ball on it. Last night I did a quick dog fight with 110s and discovered, in certain turn regimes, you need opposite rudder to keep the turn coordinated. 

 

Right now I'm mostly practicing wing-overs in it to get in sync with the way it works. When it's fast, it is easy to forget how heavy it is, and do rolls and loops and split-s to your heart's delight, or at least once, but one you've lost the speed, it will remind you like no-one else. 

 

Yet, sometimes, everything clicks, and it is right, just right. I think ultimately it takes flight time to get in sync with the plane and its idioms. 

 

Addendum: how to wingover: 

 

 

The trick to it, I'm finding is that you aren't driving the nose-down. If you've got your air speed right, it should slide into the diving turn on its own, and as you pick up speed, you bring it back up. 

 

 

Edited by Voyager

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5 hours ago, Ehret said:

 

IMHO there are some problems with guns... The Thunderbolt should have option for harmonization patterns for them. They also should be (probably) free-firing but in the sim all 8 are synced. That leaves about 60m distance between every volley of 8 bullets. A fighter sized target can avoid getting hit if it passes bullet stream fast enough. De-sync guns would make it almost impossible to avoid fire that way.

 

There is definitely something up with the dispersion. 

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I've been doing some tests in QMB against "ace" 109G2 ai. Most recent was a 38 min. fight starting with 54% fuel and all engine controls on manual settings. Flaps for landing only. Seems that once past the 1000 meter head to head merge the P47 can outrun the AI G2 on the deck. Turns typically are 180 degree or less and mostly diving turns near inverted to gain speed. Left turns seem easier if sustained turn is needed. I don't even think about trying to follow the G2's climb, use dive to gain speed instead. Seems the 109 G2 ai is averse to fighting on the deck, probably to avoid the lawn dart. Instead the ai goes into repeated climbs during which there is time for the P47 to gain separation. One of the really nice aspects of the P47 in VR is how easy it is to track target thru the bubble canopy. I use the Ptk "black dot", the "haze-off" and the "polished canopy" mods. I scored hits on the G2 but wasted most of my ammo then simply did avoidance maneuvers till the ai and I lost track of one another. I think the "dot" disappears beyond 3km range. The fight started at Slavyanskya and I landed at Anapa with some damage but no leaks. The ai was still patrolling near the original fight area.

Edited by Dagwoodyt
typo

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17 hours ago, Solmyr said:

 

Haha, that's the very scene I almost quit the film for.. 1st you laugh, 2nd you watch it several times, 3rd you cry (for such a quality about such a serious subject, and want to quit, 4th you see some beauties and keep watching.

All my respect to those black guys who were fighting in USA for their human kindness even before fighting over Europe for the Allies.

 

We should really make a contest once the P-51 comes out as a release party:

 

"Let me show you a little trick..."-Competition. Record yourself doing some insane stunt with the P-51. Extra points for when it's replicating something from Red Tails:P Double Extra if it involves the Me262 and complaints about 30mm not doing enough damage:D

 

Just to set the mood:

 

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3 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

That terrain geometry looks like IL2/46...

 

Filmed on DCS World 1.5. That map dates back to about the IL-2: 1946 era. That version of the map and its lower resolution terrain geometry has since been retired.

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17 hours ago, Ehret said:

 

IMHO there are some problems with guns... The Thunderbolt should have option for harmonization patterns for them. They also should be (probably) free-firing but in the sim all 8 are synced. That leaves about 60m distance between every volley of 8 bullets. A fighter sized target can avoid getting hit if it passes bullet stream fast enough. De-sync guns would make it almost impossible to avoid fire that way.

Yep they should most definitely have an option to de-sinc the guns and to have separate convergence for each gun pair.

I can't stand having all my guns fire at the same time.

 

Harmonization/gun pattern isnt a huge issue for me but would be a nice feature. Basically just the ability to set convergence to each pair of guns (pair 1, pair 2, etc)

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16 hours ago, 77.CountZero said:

USAF airplanes in this game are realy not for begginers [...]

 

Can't agree more on this. I remember the first time I got on the P-40; took a really long while for me to get any good with it. I tend towards USAF/USSR planes these days. Busier cockpits seem to make things a lot more interesting. I think the biggest issue I have with the P-47 is not knowing best practices for it. I've gone over the manual, albeit for the P-47N; and went by the book for engine management at least. But fighting in it is an entirely different matter. I mostly fly SP these days due to three digit ping (350+), so the AI's hyper awareness is rather challenging. I can't pounce or surprise anything, and even if the fights start at a high altitude; in the middle of it we're almost always at >3500 meters give or take. 

 

Kinda begs the question if Bodenplatte's fights will be at higher altitudes. The AI seem to be keen on hitting the deck and maintaining lower alts as time goes on. 

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I personally do not mind synced MGs on the Jug, since I prefer short, precise bursts into their engines, radiators or pilot. With synced guns, hitting them is deadly.

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6 hours ago, MarderIV said:

 

 

Can't agree more on this. I remember the first time I got on the P-40; took a really long while for me to get any good with it. I tend towards USAF/USSR planes these days. Busier cockpits seem to make things a lot more interesting. I think the biggest issue I have with the P-47 is not knowing best practices for it. I've gone over the manual, albeit for the P-47N; and went by the book for engine management at least. But fighting in it is an entirely different matter. I mostly fly SP these days due to three digit ping (350+), so the AI's hyper awareness is rather challenging. I can't pounce or surprise anything, and even if the fights start at a high altitude; in the middle of it we're almost always at >3500 meters give or take. 

 

Kinda begs the question if Bodenplatte's fights will be at higher altitudes. The AI seem to be keen on hitting the deck and maintaining lower alts as time goes on. 

 

Even in boBp nothing will change, fights will be on mid and low alts, AI has tendency to go low but i had some good QM fights at 10km with ai trying to stay at same alts we started so there is hope :)

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On 2/25/2019 at 4:23 AM, PatrickAWlson said:

I just tried flying this for the first time and I can't do anything with it (and I refuse to drop flaps :) ).  It stalls and spins more readily than a 190 - at least in my ham fisted hands.  The speed bleed is tremendous in any kind of maneuver.  Obviously I need to fly it straight more often but man, definitely not a favorite at this point.

 

Why not drop flaps? The flight model is completely inaccurate regardless of flap usage or not. The only thing approaching reality on the P-47 is the speed at altitude graph.

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6 minutes ago, Talon_ said:

 

Why not drop flaps? The flight model is completely inaccurate regardless of flap usage or not. The only thing approaching reality on the P-47 is the speed at altitude graph.

 

Doesn't seem right mostly.  Never heard of a P47 pilot doing it in real life.  Also 1C does a good job of tweaking the FM.  I don't want to learn to fly this thing completely the wrong way only to have to forget everything and start over again.

 

What I was most interested was how easily it spins on me.  Like the 190 but worse.  In the 190 that is somewhat expected as it is a known characteristic of the plane.  Never heard of that with the P47.  And I don't mean it as a whine either.  I fire up the game for the first time in weeks, get into the P47 for the first time ever, I don't expect to be any good.  

 

I suspect that I am not getting as much out of . the engine as I should be.  So I start by being too slow.  Once I'm too slow in a plane that heavy I already have problems.  So first order of business is learning P47 engine management ... I think.  Don't worry about low speed handling because you're not supposed to be maneuvering at low speed in the first place.  There's the thought process.  

 

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1 minute ago, PatrickAWlson said:

Doesn't seem right mostly.

 

It's not right, because the plane is not right.

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3 minutes ago, Talon_ said:

 

It's not right, because the plane is not right.

 

Fair enough, but same thing I said in the Tempest post: give 1C some time.  They do try to get it right and over time their success rate is pretty good.  We only have V1 of the P47 in a mostly unreleased product.  

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2 hours ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

Fair enough, but same thing I said in the Tempest post: give 1C some time.  They do try to get it right and over time their success rate is pretty good.  We only have V1 of the P47 in a mostly unreleased product.  

 

To be fair, I'm becoming persuaded that its our understanding of the plane that's wrong, rather than significant errors in the model.

 

During my flap tests I noticed that the plane gets to very large sink rates before pitching over, and I'm coming to suspect that what we're calling the "stall" is actually a post-stall dynamic, and that the primary stall is so gentle that most of us just keep on going thinking the plane is still flying just fine, even after the bottom has already dropped out. 

 

I'm planning to start testing that hypothesis once I've got tacview going and some reference on the stall AoA to draw from. 

Edited by Voyager
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4 hours ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

What I was most interested was how easily it spins on me.  Like the 190 but worse.  In the 190 that is somewhat expected as it is a known characteristic of the plane.  Never heard of that with the P47.  And I don't mean it as a whine either.  I fire up the game for the first time in weeks, get into the P47 for the first time ever, I don't expect to be any good.  

 

I suspect that I am not getting as much out of . the engine as I should be.  So I start by being too slow.  Once I'm too slow in a plane that heavy I already have problems.  So first order of business is learning P47 engine management ... I think.  Don't worry about low speed handling because you're not supposed to be maneuvering at low speed in the first place.  There's the thought process.  

 

I spun once during this fight and recovered easily. P47 seems very stable in shallow turns with ball requiring little attention. Engine management mostly adjusting rpm below 2600 and throttle below max until opponent is in sights. AI cannot seem to figure out how to attack so fight is mostly shallow turns with stick close as possible to neutral except to steepen dive to gain speed. I think center mounted sticks with extension may help here where you can alternate right or left hand as desired. In replay I saw AI belly in just before I landed, maybe just ran out of fuel. Able to gain some altitude later in flight as fuel (54%) gets used up. Gyro sight doesn't seem to help much since nose hides it in turns.

Tacview01.jpg

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10 hours ago, Voyager said:

To be fair, I'm becoming persuaded that its our understanding of the plane that's wrong, rather than significant errors in the model.

 

It will literally climb at 55mph

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2 hours ago, Talon_ said:

 

It will literally climb at 55mph

 

Have not been able to reproduce the 55mph climb so far. The most I've gotten has been to 65mph before the plane stalled with full flaps, and looking at it in Tacview, 'climb' is something of a relative term. With full 40 degrees of flaps and the full 2600hp WEP in a stripped P-47D-28, 20% fuel, 4 guns, no ammo, you get about 1000-1500 fpm and a 10-11 degree AoA. In the same load out, flaps up, climbing at ~160 IAS, you can get about 4,500 fpm.

 

So, while there does appear to be something odd going on at extreme AoA with maximum flaps, given that the D-28 has about 600 more reserve horsepower than the original models, the flaps are large slotted/Fowler style* flaps (similar to the type of flaps that the P-38 used for its flaps-turn) and given the absence of the asymmetric flaps deployment that impacted the real aircraft in the 5-20 degree deployment range, I've become less convinced that what we're seeing is as far out of the box as people think.

 

The issue I'm finding, is in tracking down actual test data of the P-47D L/D with the flaps deployed. I suspect, because of the other issues with the flaps mechanisms on the plane, there would have been little demand to evaluate them; one does not deploy out of sync flaps in high speed turns.

 

And, if the devs do implement the asymmetric deployment, that will be the end of the P-47 flap wars.

 

Harry Voyager

 

 

*The documentation calls them Fowler style, but they look more like slotted flaps, with a short initial extension.

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Prop wash imho is somewhat overdone in game, at least it has been in the early versions for as long as I tested it. Now we have an aircraft with a huge prop, an immensely powerful engines and decent flaps just inside the prop wash zone. It could be that the old issue is showing again, noticeably.

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Hi!

Operational details says 

Glideslope speed: 185..210 km/h (115..130 mph)
Landing speed: 175..195 km/h (110..120 mph)
Landing angle: 11.9 °

With a full flaps it is impossible to make three point landing at 110mph. 90% fuel and full ammo. Using 30° flaps it seems to be possible.  With PE-2 it is prohibited to use more than 70% flaps during landing...is there same kind of limitation with Thunderbolt? 

Edit:  Touchdown speed in this game is something like 70-80 mph when using full flaps no matter how much fuel you have onboard

 

Edited by Hartigan

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3 hours ago, Hartigan said:

Hi!

Operational details says 

Glideslope speed: 185..210 km/h (115..130 mph)
Landing speed: 175..195 km/h (110..120 mph)
Landing angle: 11.9 °

With a full flaps it is impossible to make three point landing at 110mph. 90% fuel and full ammo. Using 30° flaps it seems to be possible.  With PE-2 it is prohibited to use more than 70% flaps during landing...is there same kind of limitation with Thunderbolt? 

Edit:  Touchdown speed in this game is something like 70-80 mph when using full flaps no matter how much fuel you have onboard

 

Interesting. Do they list a sink rate and power setting at that speed? Those are the parts I'm missing. 

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Yep, not sure what is the optimal vertical speed and engine power on final approach? . Maybe engine should be almost idle with steep sink rate, because high engine power with full flaps and minor dive angle causes so much lift that the plane tends to climb back to sky 

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In the iterim, I'm going to guesstimate a 500 fpm sink rate with a 12 degree pitch up at 110 mph. 

 

As I type that, i find myself thinking that sounds like a very high AoA for a WWII era fighter. 

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For me the words P-47 and dogfight just don’t mix. I’ll take her for ground attack roles any day of the week, but if I’m jumped down low while doing so I’m tucking my tail under my wings and booking for an escape. It’s a big, heavy bird and lets me know it on the deck. I’ve yet to experiment at altitude though. 

 

 

On 2/24/2019 at 5:56 AM, Mauf said:

 

 

You just had to beg for this, didn't you:D

Too funny. You can definately see George Lucas’s hand in that movie from Star Wars and the magic of CGI in that scene, amongst all others. Reminds me of a couple of goofy scenes in Red Baron while the computer was generating the dog fights through human input and their misconceptions of flight and specific plane parameters.

 

Can’t wait for something that rivals the TIE Fighter, let alone using it during the WW2 era. It’s gonna be incredible...cough....cough...

Edited by BornToBattle

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I have had so much entertainment learning to DF against  "ace" AI 109G2 while flying the P47 have yet to try the Spitfire IX. The P47 is very stable and gives ample warning before departure. Don't know if I would feel the same if flying 2D, but in VR the P47 is great fun to fly and fight in.

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On 2/27/2019 at 8:54 AM, Hartigan said:

Yep, not sure what is the optimal vertical speed and engine power on final approach? . Maybe engine should be almost idle with steep sink rate, because high engine power with full flaps and minor dive angle causes so much lift that the plane tends to climb back to sky 

 

Was digging around in a copy of the P-47N manual other people have posted link to, and found in the landing, the final leg is a glide profile: i.e. no throttle at all. They specifically recommend bumping the throttle a couple of times as you line up to make sure the engine doesn't quit if you need it. 

 

I'm going to need to rewatch airboyd's P-47 take offs and landings video tonight to see if that's what is recommended for the C's and D's as well. 

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On 2/23/2019 at 11:33 PM, Talon_ said:

 

How to fly an 8-ton energy fighter

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh and you can reduce the stall speed from 75mph to 50mph if you remember to drop a few tons of ordnance.

 

 

 

 

 

Perhaps Sikorsky helped Kartveli?

 

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Haza said:

 

Perhaps Sikorsky helped Kartveli?

 

You actually tried any of that yourself? 

 

The "35mph" is a momentum loft from speed with Max WEP. The plane is entering a stall, and about to go into a flat spin from the engine torque, at an air speed to low to counter it. 

 

Still haven't had flying time to test it yet, but the landing procedure implies that it should have a 500 fpm drop at 110mph indicated with full 40° flap deployment with the engine idle (-2.56m/s at 176kph ias). If those numbers are within the range, that would seem to imply the aircraft has a ridiculously high lift to drag ratio.

 

That why I really want to find some rigorous test data from the actual aircraft with flaps deployed. 

 

TL; DR version: The most bonkers in-game behaviors have been fixed, but what the Pilot's Operating Manual describes is also bonkers, so we're all missing something important here,and I don't know what yet. 

Edited by Voyager

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1 hour ago, Voyager said:

TL; DR version: The most bonkers in-game behaviors have been fixed, but what the Pilot's Operating Manual describes is also bonkers, so we're all missing something important here,and I don't know what yet. 

 

Literally untrue

 

You can climb for 4 minutes like this at over 1000ft/min.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Talon_ said:

 

Literally untrue

 

You can climb for 4 minutes like this at over 1000ft/min.

 

 

 

That video is out of date. The flight model has since changed. Right now, in the current flight model the absolute most you can mange in a *stripped* plane is 65mph and only at full WEP, and that with a 12 degree AoA.

 

Now, whether or not the 65mph wave-off is correct is a different question that I have not yet completed the testing and research to answer, but before you start accusing people of lying to you, it would behoove you to check to see if the evidence you present is, still, in fact, true.

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Over the past few days I've done QMB 1v1's flying the P47 against "ace" AI 109 variants: G4, K-4 and K-4 with gun pods. Matches were H2H at 1000 meter start with 54% fuel for my P47 and 65% for the 109's. I used flaps only for landing. I have done matches on one pc using a Samsung Odyssey and on an older system using a Rift. Longest match lasted about 40 minutes against a K-4 on the Odyssey pc. The K-4 AI behavior doesn't seem dramatically different from that of earlier variants. A possible oddity is that the K-4 seems unwilling to relinquish altitude advantage even when that is needed to finish my damaged P47. Fastest speed  I noted for the K-4 in Tacview was 795 kph during a dive. The K-4 AI invariably tries to maintain altitude advantage over the P47, but that creates more manuevering space for the P47.  Seems that evading the 109's boom requires a tight diving turn forcing the AI to go inverted in order to deliever hits. Evasive turn needs to be initiated  before AI tracers appear.  For some reason the AI seems to hesitate rather than commit to an inverted attack, possibly a developer' adjustment to prevent "lawn darting" (?). The AI instead climbs back to altitude and the process is repeated until I or the AI gets a firng solution. I am setting the gyro sight to ~320m while in-game.  AI covergence was set to 250m - 310m, however Tacview shows that the AI will fire from >600m when appropriate. Gun pod-equipped K-4 seems to be at a disadvantage as, I guess, would be expected. The P47's bubble canopy represents a potentially crucial advantage in DF's. This advantage is increased with the Samsung Odyssey because of its larger FOV when compared to the Rift. While head tracking is better with the Rift's two base stations that is not enough to offset the Odyssey's FOV advantage. That's one instance in which hardware may play a role in how one views the P47's DF capabilities. For the Odyssey pc I'm using a Gunfighter Pro and high res pedals. On the older Rift system I use a Gladiator Mkii joystick, CH pedals and a DIY throttle box. The CH pedals are definitely obsolete having no "feel" though they function as well as they ever have. The Gladiator Mkii is a really nice stick, but I do have to concentrate to avoid over-controlling. In most matches I was able to down the 109 without receiving damage. In a match today I got damaged, but once again was easily able to evade until the K-4 AI left the immediate area allowing me to land. So far i'm not very impressed with the K-4 AI as an adversary for the P47.

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@DagwoodytIn general, what tactics do you find yourself using? Do you both generally go for altitude during the maneuvering phase, or is it generally only recovery from the evasion? 

 

I have a horrible tendency to get succeed into low speed turn fights, and trying to figure out how best to break that. Thinking maybe when the AI tries to get into a turning fight to break out the other way and work into a circle climb? 

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On 3/3/2019 at 6:51 AM, Voyager said:

@DagwoodytIn general, what tactics do you find yourself using? Do you both generally go for altitude during the maneuvering phase, or is it generally only recovery from the evasion? 

 

I have a horrible tendency to get succeed into low speed turn fights, and trying to figure out how best to break that. Thinking maybe when the AI tries to get into a turning fight to break out the other way and work into a circle climb? 

I find myself doing repeated reversals waiting for one in which distance closes with me on K-4’s six. I mostly give some altitude to keep speed up and if lucky can later trade to get some altitude during next reversal. I try to concentrate on keeping stick movements minimal. This evening I flew a mission in the P47 against the K-4 that lasted 44 minutes with K-4 ultimately crashing. I never even got close enough during the fight to see any evidence of hits on the K-4 but did get credit for the kill in the events log. Nice thing about P47 is that engine is very durable with just reasonable attention and powerful enough that I can gain some separation from AI, for instance in getting over a ridge into the next valley for some terrain shielding. I will go for altitude if opportunity presents but that is less important to me than maintaining separation and “eyeball” on the AI. If the AI goes into NASCAR turns and we stalemate I will break away and do whatever is necessary to cool cylinder head temps and then return to reversals. For me patience is mandatory in this matchup.

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