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taffy2jeffmorgan

P47 dogfighter ?

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HI, I have been flying the P 47 in Pat Wilson's 5.1.1 version, although the P47 in my opinion has to be one of the best ground attack aircraft in the game,  she's a brute of a fighter in a dog fight, by brute i mean heavy and slow to respond, so what's the secret ?  making sure that you have a altitude advantage,  because if you get into a turning fight you have no chance !  so which of us is having some success with the Jug ? 

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It's a high altitude interceptor trapped in a tactical, low level fixated, computer game.  It's very good at ground attack, but you better have some Spit IX as your high cover, because if some 109s show up, you are dead.

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Actually in the sim the P-47D has a very weird, some say "magical" flaps. Open them 40-60% and you should be able to keep in turns with everything. Open them 100% and add WEP you will be able to helicopter...

 

That's all wrong but it's the reality in the sim.

Edited by Ehret
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You want to spend your energy wisely at low altitudes with the P-47 because weight is working against you here. What you do have is massive engine power so build up speed, try and gain altitude, and then come back down on enemy fighters when possible. You're going to spend a lot of time flying defensively until you can eliminate their energy advantage and where you can then try and turn the tables.

 

The P-47s got the advantage when you're flying high using the turbosupercharger to the maximum advantage. There, there are few aircraft that can match. Down low is a more difficult place to be.

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Remember  Dive Fire Recover or AKA Boom and Zoom Altitude is speed, Energy,   Speed is Life, if you miss on your first pass don't hang around, climb out recover and get ready to do it again. 

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I wonder if the render bubble will ever expand so we can fly at angels 20+ and swoop around using our energy to fight... With Bodenplatte and all the great planes coming this would be so awesome!

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I'm still getting a handle on maneuvering it well. The corner speed seems be around 250-300 mph IAS. As long as you're above that, it's good. Below that its not. 

 

Power settings to remember are Intercooler to 50% for best speed. Oil needs to usually be mostly open. Cowl flaps can generally stay fairly closed. 

 

45"&2550 RPM for max continous

60"&2600 RPM with water injection for max speed, until water runs out. 

 

I still need to test whether best climb is at 150 or 170 indicated. 

 

Purportedly, if you can keep enough space to climb past ~10,000 feet, you can drag them to high altitudes where the 109s can't keep up. 

 

If you are using the gyro sight then set the range to your gun convergence (remember to convert from meters to yards, 230m convergence is 250y on the dial) and set the wing span to 30ft for 190s and 109s. Set that way, if you put fill the moving ring with their wingspan, they're in for a very bad day. 

 

Also, map the jettison stores button. Those bazooka tubes are not worth your plane. 

Edited by Voyager
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Use the flaps to float around at 45 mph, just like the P-47 did in real life.

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6 hours ago, taffy2jeffmorgan said:

HI, I have been flying the P 47 in Pat Wilson's 5.1.1 version, although the P47 in my opinion has to be one of the best ground attack aircraft in the game,  she's a brute of a fighter in a dog fight, by brute i mean heavy and slow to respond, so what's the secret ?  making sure that you have a altitude advantage,  because if you get into a turning fight you have no chance !  so which of us is having some success with the Jug ? 

 

Dont do what you read in books, play it how its made in game, that means outturn all your enemys with use of your flaps, use less fuel, also low vis range dosent play to your advantages up high like it should if thats more then 9km, why bnz when you can faster shoot down enemy by siting on his 6 and outturn him, you dont have long boost or even combat settings how its now like axis in bobp do, so you have to get them fast and not waist time on bnz or drag and bag, i think IJN zero tactics book would be more helpfule for in game p-47 then any p-47s tactics.

Edited by 77.CountZero
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The plane feels very good without the flaps, but with them it becomes super broken. I hope the flaps for all aircraft are looked at because they produce some really whacky physics. 

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2 hours ago, Voyager said:

45"&2550 RPM for max continous

60"&2600 RPM with water injection for max speed, until water runs out.

 

As long you don't exceed 2600rpm you can use 46"-52" for very long time (52" lasts +30m).

You can improve climb-rate by using manual pitch and keeping rpms 2900-3000; it safe for about 5m. When you are very high (+8000m) the over-rev improves performance dramatically. Another trick is to use ADI on combat power (up to 58"); performance will not be as good (-6" after all) as "normal" WEP but it will last for whole 15m straight.

 

All those tricks are wrong or weren't necessary IRL.

 

The real neat trick which works in the sim too is to fully open throttle and use the boost lever to manage MP, only. Manifold pressure will lag but can give improve performance somewhat.

Edited by Ehret
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2 hours ago, CUJO_1970 said:

Use the flaps to float around at 45 mph, just like the P-47 did in real life.

 

Ouch! 😜

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@Ehret60" at 2600 also gets the full 15m. From what I've been seeing in my tests is, there has not been an appreciable difference between 60" and 64". 

 

The 52" at 2600 makes sense, as that was the War Emergency setting before the WI system was added. 

 

The Throttle first, Turbo 2nd is the best way to use the system. The engine supercharger should have nasty throttling losses while the throttle isn't wide open. The turbo, on the otherhand, takes back pressure when it's spinning, so you should get the most engine output with the throttle full forward, and the turbo full back. Moving them together costs you hp, but makes it easier to use. 

 

The overrev above 8km sounds odd. 

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2 hours ago, Voyager said:

@Ehret60" at 2600 also gets the full 15m. From what I've been seeing in my tests is, there has not been an appreciable difference between 60" and 64". 

 

The 52" at 2600 makes sense, as that was the War Emergency setting before the WI system was added. 

 

The Throttle first, Turbo 2nd is the best way to use the system. The engine supercharger should have nasty throttling losses while the throttle isn't wide open. The turbo, on the otherhand, takes back pressure when it's spinning, so you should get the most engine output with the throttle full forward, and the turbo full back. Moving them together costs you hp, but makes it easier to use. 

 

The overrev above 8km sounds odd. 

 

Is there an up to date guide on getting the most with engine management etc?

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2 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

 

Is there an up to date guide on getting the most with engine management etc?

 

Right now I'm just using a combination of the P-47N manual and things I've tested in-game. For example, I haven't tested the boost dynamics, because the P-47N manual's instructions don't cost any speed.

 

The MW-50 is the only thing I've found so far that you really need to do different to run the engine without the hud.

 

I also haven't tested anything with the non-WI high power settings. That's been limited to noticing that, once the water runs out, all the engine temperatures run really hot, and things go bad pretty quickly at any power setting beyond continuous. 

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I dont even bather with what historicly worked, i just go with what works best in game.

 

For RPM arund 2550 (same as on yaks for example) is best for max speed up to 7km, abow 7km you can go on auto max rpm, or manualy push to 3000rpm on short periods and gain a lot in max speed and climb ( same as you can on 109g2 for example when you go on manual prop and rais rpm )

 

So if i wont longer combat and good speed i go with keeping MP at around 52" and get 30+min of combat, and trotle at max and adjust MP with turbo

Same is if i wont Boost to last longer, i keep MP at around 58" (your 30-40mph faster then normal combat that lasts 15min, and only 10-20mph slower then max boost thats only 5min).

 

Also abow 9km inlet is better to be at 70% insted useal 50%.

Also mix at 100% is better then 80% when using bost, 80 is better when not using boost

and always use flaps in df to either outclimb or outturn enemy on low alts.

If yu go abow 3200rpm you brake engine, (it can happend also on auto RPM when you dive and have low rpms and inrese them fast)

30% of fuel is around 100galon on fuel gague, 10% is for around 8min on combat, or 10min on continues, so ~70% fuel is good for good 1h sorties.

 

I dont even bather to see how they flew them in real from their manuals or what limits they used as to me how it works in game is what mathers

Edited by 77.CountZero

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In theory I'd rather not game the game, especially since I'm not after online kill ratio but historical immersion.

However I still need to know how to fly the plane as currently modeled I guess...minus the low speed flap turns.

Thanks for the info!

 

 

 

I've spent too much time testing AI, and too little time flying.

Need to catch up a bit.

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6 hours ago, Voyager said:

@Ehret60" at 2600 also gets the full 15m. From what I've been seeing in my tests is, there has not been an appreciable difference between 60" and 64".

 

edit: had the "unbreakable" option set in QMB... :(

Edited by Ehret

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2 hours ago, Ehret said:

 

edit: had the "unbreakable" option set in QMB... :(

It's all good. I ran the break tests at a high altitude and found some other interesting/weird behaviors. Apparently at 22,000ft, full boost only gets you 60", if the intercooler is at 50% and the carb temp at 50C, but if you open the intercooler up, it drops the carb temp to about 0C, bumps the manifold pressure to 64" and cuts the time down to 5m, which seems odd, but is useful to know. 

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The FM is porked. It is slow, wobbly, jinky, sloppy, and the worst flying kite in the game. But she is a big beautiful pig!

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17 hours ago, EAF19_Marsh said:

 

Ouch! 😜

 

How to fly an 8-ton energy fighter

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh and you can reduce the stall speed from 75mph to 50mph if you remember to drop a few tons of ordnance.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Talon_
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On ‎2‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 10:05 AM, 77.CountZero said:

Dont do what you read in books, play it how its made in game

:cool:..:salute:..

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Has this P-47 issue been addressed on the forums by the devs? I know it's early access, but it's a pretty glaring FM issue.....

 

 

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1 minute ago, 325th_Tazman said:

Has this P-47 issue been addressed on the forums by the devs? I know it's early access, but it's a pretty glaring FM issue.....

 

 

As far as i know, yes. Jason himself reacted to the topic. So the devs are aware of it and with the time they will fix it.

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I will save my bashing of flight models from early access content till they release it fully, when bodenplatte comes out complete and no longer in EA and it's still able to float in midair then yeah might have an issue worth crying about.

 

As far as I know they have ONE dude who does flight model work, that's rough. Guys probably under a ton of pressure to get these planes out the door.

Edited by JonRedcorn
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Really hope this is just a place holder FM.

 

Most of the controls are modeled to operate this thing as is should be run, but it doesn't respond to correct turbo/throttle/prop settings correctly so why bother.

 

It's completely goofy as some have stated. Linking all three controls together nets just as good results as trying to follow proper settings.

 

This guy's channel on you tube has some of the best videos out there about how the P-47s engine is supposed to work: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCynGrIaI5vsJQgHJAIp9oSg

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5 hours ago, -LUCKY-ThanksSkeletor said:

 

That e7 is a true hero, never turn fight with a p47. Even zero pilots know that!

 

Why? Is a heavy cow with lot of wing load.. Should be a turd turning

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15 hours ago, -LUCKY-ThanksSkeletor said:

 

That e7 is a true hero, never turn fight with a p47. Even zero pilots know that!

Thats good one :) cant wait to see how will P-51 fly, considering its best ww2 fighter airplane in world 😄

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43 minutes ago, 77.CountZero said:

Thats good one :) cant wait to see how will P-51 fly, considering its best ww2 fighter airplane in world 😄

 

 

You just had to beg for this, didn't you:D

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1 hour ago, 77.CountZero said:

Thats good one :) cant wait to see how will P-51 fly, considering its best ww2 fighter airplane in world 😄

 

We have Thunderspit so it's only natural that we get Zerostang, soon.

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