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Poochnboo

Any Chance At All Of A P-51 B/C?

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While I am looking forward to the D model Mustang, it's not the one that gets my blood going. That's reserved for the earlier models, for some reason. I just finished watching Kermit Weeks flying his P-51C wearing his "Kermie Cam," and I had to come in to make this request.

Before anyone says, "There were very few B or C model Mustangs left at the time of Bodenplatte,".....wrong! There were plenty. Especially with Tac R units.

C'mon! Wouldn't be hard to do. Make it a bonus plane. I know I'm not the only one who'd love to see it.

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I hope for a lot of planes, but this team already pulls off miracles for its size so all we can do is wait and see my friend. I hope BoBp does well so they can expand!

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I'm very much in favour of more Mustangs down the line. The P-51B/C are definitely of interest but I hope to see the P-51A and the A-36 make it in there some day too.

 

One thing I'd suggest isn't the case is "easy." A very different cockpit for the B/C and a slightly different wing with a different flight model make this project a little more than a bonus type. It's definitely deserving of the full treatment with the standard canopy and Malcom hood as an option too.

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No, never said it was easy....just that it wouldn't be hard. They've done a Mustang, same engine. Plenty of info out there on it, and there are even a few flying. Doable. We have 109 versions of the '109, two versions of the Mustang isn't asking a lot. But, as has been said, "Let's wait and see."

 

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Not having researched the P-51, but I'd think one of the Allison engined versions would probably make a better collector's plane than a P-51B/C, if only because the P-51B would be an essential part of any campaigns around the time of the Normandy invation. 

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Who knows what the next plane set after BP is going to be, but sure why not. Or, if CliffsOfTobruk does ok and those guys move on to CliffsOfSalerno you might see one there...

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54 minutes ago, Voyager said:

Not having researched the P-51, but I'd think one of the Allison engined versions would probably make a better collector's plane than a P-51B/C, if only because the P-51B would be an essential part of any campaigns around the time of the Normandy invation. 

I'm not sure how the Allison engined version would be a better choice than the B/C model because the B/C was used over Normandy. I'm not understanding your thinking, there. Maybe I'm misunderstanding something.

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34 minutes ago, Poochnboo said:

I'm not sure how the Allison engined version would be a better choice than the B/C model because the B/C was used over Normandy. I'm not understanding your thinking, there. Maybe I'm misunderstanding something.

 

The 1A has quad long barreled 20m Hispanos with decent amount of ammo. The A-36 has 2 of 6 0.50" cals centrally mounted under the nose and dive-brakes. Both have different type of circular radiator core which should (maybe) be more resilient to damage. The Allison V-1710 could develop more hp at low altitude than the Merlin.

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+1.

 

Considering plethora of versions for German fighter types, why not the two most prominent ones for the P-51. Or like La-5 and -5FN.

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The Allison engine versions are only appropriate for North Africa and early Italian campaigns, Use with the RAF well before Normandy, and in the CBI theater.

 

They are very cool planes to be sure.  Not sure the 4 Hispano version ever saw combat.

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37 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

The Allison engine versions are only appropriate for North Africa and early Italian campaigns, Use with the RAF well before Normandy, and in the CBI theater.

 

They are very cool planes to be sure.  Not sure the 4 Hispano version ever saw combat.

The USAAF still had some Allison powered P-51s doing photo recon after D-Day. 

Edited by Rjel

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13 minutes ago, Rjel said:

The USAAF still had some Allison powered P-51s doing photo recon after D-Day. 

Yes, they did. I have photos of an F6A, photo recon version of the P51A, sitting on a field in France in full Normandy invasion stripes. And fitted with the Malcom hood which is usually seen on the B/C version of the airplane. It was with the 67th Tactical Recon Group.

While on this subject, I find the tactical recon mission, or Tac R as the USAAF called it, one of the most interesting missions of all. These Mustangs were camera equipped, but also fully armed....unlike the photo Lightnings. All versions of the P-51, from the A to the D were modified for this job. These pilots flew in two plane formations, low over German held territory. They were to report everythng they saw, plus take pictures of anything of special interest. They also engaged in combat with enemy fighters. One such pilot with the 10th photo recon group, Clyde East, destroyed no less than 13 German airplanes while performing his recon duties. 

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10 hours ago, Poochnboo said:

I'm not sure how the Allison engined version would be a better choice than the B/C model because the B/C was used over Normandy. I'm not understanding your thinking, there. Maybe I'm misunderstanding something.

 

Basically, if the plane is a stand-alone collectors plane, it can't currently be included in the main games. Since the P-51B was the most important fighter of the Allied Strategic bombing campaign, if GB has any plane to release that in the future, it needs to be available as a non-collectors plane. In other words, if you want to fly the Battle of the Reich, you must have the P-51B.

 

So, to do a collector's P-51, we need to look for a model that the average, non P-51 enthusiast can live without, hence the P-51A versions. They're Mustangs, but if you never get one, you won't be missing core parts of the Mustang service life. It also has the advantage of being an unusual version, with a different enough characteristics to the major versions that it would be worth getting even once you've got the standard P-51D and P-51B in your hangar. 

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Better leve razaeback 51s or 47s for some early west front DLC or even some land based PTO, i would like that collectors fighter airplane for BoBp be something that you can get mostly on that area and doent fit other earlyer fronts, and best one is Spitfire Mk.XIV, same is for axis fighter, why eliminate it from some other dlcs when there is still good airplanes that only fit this bobp map and targeted campaign that are missing.

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The last Mustang Mk. III equipped squadron left the 2nd TAF and the continent in late September. Fighter-reconnaissance Mustang Mk. I, IA, and II served throughout the BoBP-timeframe within the BoBP-map's boundaries.
A Mustang Mk. I(A) would be nice (or a A-36 over Burma), but there are more important gaps in the BoBP planeset to be filled first.

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I'm not convinced that not making the airplane for Bodenplatte because someday, MAYBE, we might get a Bombing The Riech module, makes sense. I've never heard them mention they had any intention of doing that. I've understood that this sim was going to remain on the Tactical level.

But okay, if that's the thinking, how about this. Make the F6B version. They had cameras mounted behind the pilot. This would give us a P-51 B/C, and also giveus something I really feel the sim could use. A reconiassance airplane. And the Tac R Mustangs were very active duringb this time, providing a great deal of information on German movements during the Battle of the Bulge.

Now they are free to make the cameraless models later on. I guess, as you can see, I'm a big fan of this airplane. 

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If they go for Normandy, you get P-51B/C, if they go for any land based PTO there is big chance you get P-51B/C, if they go for Italy you get P-51B/C, only if they go for East front you dont get P-51B/C or some naval PTO, so i would say there is big chance that next future DLC could have it in its planset, so why make it collectable after ppl already have better airplane in P-51D-15 in BoBp, not many would buy same P-51 with less firepower and with bad rear view, dosent look like good idea to have it as collectable, its better fit with some DLC 10 airplanes pack, same i would say for Typhoon, if they go for non vvs collector fighter airplane after BoBp it should be something thats better performing then airplanes we have, like they did with yak1b, la5fn and 109g6, they were good options as they give better performance then what you got with previous DLC airplanes before they were anounced so more ppl will se reason to buy them as extra airplanes.

Edited by 77.CountZero
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1 hour ago, 77.CountZero said:

go for any land based PTO there is big chance you get P-51B/C,

No early model Mustangs flew combat in the South Pacific. We'd have to have China/Burma, to fly them against the Japanese. Even The D models weren't sent to the Pacific until early in 1945. They flew combat over the Phillipine Islands and, of course, flew missions to Japan from Iwo Jima once the Marines had taken that Hell-hole. But hey! China sounds pretty damn good to me!

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yes thats land based PTO to me, china, burma rst is naval ops and island hoping ops and that will probably be reserved for naval usaf or p47s and p-38s

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On 2/21/2019 at 5:46 AM, Poochnboo said:

We have 109 versions of the '109, two versions of the Mustang isn't asking a lot.

 

20 hours ago, CrazyDuck said:

Considering plethora of versions for German fighter types, why not the two most prominent ones for the P-51. Or like La-5 and -5FN.

 

The reason there are so many versions of the same Luftwaffe fighters is because there isn't a real alternative, you can't use that as justification for more versions of Allied fighters because they have more variety. 

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2 hours ago, Soilworker said:

 

 

The reason there are so many versions of the same Luftwaffe fighters is because there isn't a real alternative, you can't use that as justification for more versions of Allied fighters because they have more variety. 

That's kind of a myopic point of view. As far as the USAAF as it was equipped in the ETO, there were but three fighter planes in use. To limit the P-38, P-47 and P-51 to a single version because the Allies had "more variety" is short sighted. The P-38G was a far less capable fighter than were the later J and L models. So too the earlier P-51B/Cs were considerably different airplanes than was the D. Personally, I would want the latest, most advanced versions of each USAAF fighter as it was based in the ETO to someday be included in this sim. More variety of those and other Allied fighter A/C is as valid as multiple versions of 109s and 190s. 

Edited by Rjel
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3 hours ago, Soilworker said:

The reason there are so many versions of the same Luftwaffe fighters is because there isn't a real alternative,

Agreed completely.

 

3 hours ago, Soilworker said:

you can't use that as justification for more versions of Allied fighters because they have more variety. 

 

I fail to see why not.

 

In other words: why should additional versions of P-51 be ruled out due to situation on blue side (low number of blue side fighter types and high number of their subverisons)?

Why not offer them, for example, as a separate "Collector Pack"? I'd gladly pay for something like this, and I don't care about number of flyables on red and blue side being exactly equal.

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1 hour ago, Rjel said:

That's kind of a myopic point of view. As far as the USAAF as it was equipped in the ETO, there were but three fighter planes in use. To limit the P-38, P-47 and P-51 to a single version because the Allies had "more variety" is short sighted. The P-38G was a far less capable fighter than were the later J and L models. So too the earlier P-51B/Cs were considerably different airplanes than was the D. Personally, I would want the latest, most advanced versions of each USAAF fighter as it was based in the ETO to someday be included in this sim. More variety of those and other Allied fighter A/C is as valid as multiple versions of 109s and 190s. 

 

1 minute ago, CrazyDuck said:

I fail to see why not.

 

In other words: why should additional versions of P-51 be ruled out due to situation on blue side (low number of blue side fighter types and high number of their subverisons)?

Why not offer them, for example, as a separate "Collector Pack"? I'd gladly pay for something like this, and I don't care about number of flyables on red and blue side being exactly equal.

 

(I think I should have used "an argument" instead of "justification".)

 

You guys are missing my point. I'm not saying they shouldn't be in the sim and I'm not saying they aren't relevant, I'm just saying that argument only works if we also had a range of other Luftwaffe fighters. The (well one) reason there are so many 109s in the sim is because there are so many different Allied fighters. (Yes I know we all know this, I'm just restating it.)

 

Can you imagine the whining if the devs brought out a BoX title with twice as many Allied aircraft as Axis? Especially if it was still only 10? (I'm not saying I'd be one of the whiners.) The devs like to bring out a fairly even number of Allied and Axis aircraft so say they brought out the P-51B/C, P-47D-15 & Spitfire XIV as collector planes (all of which I would love to have BTW [well the last two at least]) there would be likely complaints that we don't get the equivalent number of axis fighters, so what do we end up with? Bf109 G10? Bf109 G14/AS? Ta152? (Again I wouldn't complain.) Hell people already complain that we're getting too many Axis aircraft released before Allied in BoBp EA!

 

I realise that got a little rambly but do you see my point now?

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@SoilworkerI don't recall if it was this thread or another, but I believe people have been proposing just that; starting to do 5-6 new Allied plane each pack, with 1-3 new axis fighters, and fill out the remainder with relevant, already released, Axis planes.

 

As I brought up in my P-47 thread, there are about 6-8 versions of it that would be worth including by the time GB covers everything, while there are, maybe, four Bf-109G versions left that would be possible to include, and not that many more of the Fw-190 either. 

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We (who were around then) got spoiled by IL-2 1946. Over a hundred planes.

 

I have my doubts we'll ever see anything like that again.

 

If we do..., at the current way these things are getting priced it would be about $5k for the same amount of content. All the IL-2 1946 software combined was less than $100.

 

And- if everyone don't have everything it makes things tough for online server scenario's.

 

Just sayin'...

 

 

Edited by Drawbar

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