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Alternative for Pacific Theatre after Bodenplatte

Alternative for "Pacific" after Bodenplatte  

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  1. 1. If Pacific proves undoable, what alternative for a pacific theatre would you prefer to be developed after Bodenplatte? Battle of...

    • Spain (I15, I16, R5, SB + D.510 vs He 51, Bf109B/C/D, Ju87A, Do17 + Cr 32)
      38
    • Talvisota (I16, I153, SB2, DB3 + MRB2 vs Fokker DXXI, Brewster 239, Fokker C10, Bristol Blenheim + M.S. 406)
      32
    • France (D.520, Hawk 75, Potez 63, MB.170 + Hurricane vs BF109E3, BF110C2, Ju87B2, Do17 + Hs 123)
      71
    • Berlin (Yak3, La7, IL10, Tu2 + P39Q vs BF109G10, Ta152H, Me410, Do217 + He162)
      65
    • I don't care - If they can't do Pacific, I'm out anyway!
      64


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On 2/21/2019 at 7:02 AM, Vig said:

Really, none.  I would find something else to spend money on.

I agree with you

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Posted (edited)

There really is no alternative to Pacific Theater.   That's the one most of us want.   Do the best you can with it.  Other developers have done Pacific War fighters for almost 20 years.  How did they do it?  How did they get data on Japanese planes?   Remember Combat Flight Sim II, the Microsoft sim based on the allies war with Japan?  I even have a Pearl Harbor add-on mod someone created. It was awesome graphically and otherwise for its day.   You could play as the Japanese or intercept them at any time literally over Pearl Harbor.  Loved it.  It just doesn't work anymore with Windows 10 PCs and GPUs like my Geforce RTX 2080.

Edited by Trek64Trek64
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34 minutes ago, Trek64Trek64 said:

There really is no alternative to Pacific Theater.   

 

 

Of course there is... you are only saying that because it floats your boat, plus for many it may be their favourite theatre.

I'll guarantee you there are many, many people that are not interested in the pacific at all, just like there are many that have zero interest in the Eastern Front.

Having said that, do I think Jason and crew will do the Pacific at some stage?... yes, I do, but I doubt it will be anytime soon.

 

On a personal note, would I buy it?... Yes.

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My personal pop assessment is that the Pacific will eventually come as a first installment, if or when BoX decides to switch to a new game engine.

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1 hour ago, Trek64Trek64 said:

There really is no alternative to Pacific Theater. 

 

Except for Normandy, Sicily, Anzio, North Italy, Leningrad, Barbarossa, etc...

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Posted (edited)

We weren't told for how long they are postponing the Asiatic-Pacific Theatre. Maybe your supposition of a long wait or even a new engine turns out to be true, maybe it doesn't.
Anyway, they first indicated and later pre-announced this theatre a long time ago now and this played a big part in my return to the game. After an initial phase of disappointment I grew to accept their decision as it was/is reasonable and the BoBP-timeframe is about the only Western Front scenario I'm somewhat interested in. I was finally sold on BoBP after I offered some historical data and got into contact with the Developers. This promoted my personal interest in the BoBP-scenario and I learned of their enthusiasm and devotion first hand.
Nonetheless, for me the next instalment has to be Asiatic-Pacific Theatre themed. I'm saying this not only out of personal interest in this theatre, but also because I feel it's about time after BoBP (and TC/FC) to implement their intentions/promises.

Even though I have a general idea of how the Devs work, I don't claim any experience in developing a sim-game like this. I do claim knowledge of the Asiatic-Pacific Theatre and, having created dozens, if not hundreds, of single- and multiplayer missions for the first generation IL2,
I do claim knowledge of player dynamics. Based on this, I'm convinced that Papua New Guinea 1942/43 is doable and the best/only starting point for a multitude of reasons. Quite a few of the potential Allied aircraft, such as the P-39D/P-400, P-38F, P-40K, and P-47D (early), are variants of already modelled aircraft, while others, such as the B-26, CAC Boomerang, or Beaufighter Mk. I, are just as researchable as their Japanese opponents.
Midway and especially Okinawa were bad ideas from the beginning. This played an important role in the postponement (cf. Jason's comments on why they had to delay it).

Edited by =27=Davesteu
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Posted (edited)
On 4/16/2019 at 11:48 AM, =27=Davesteu said:

Papua New Guinea 1942/43 is doable and the best/only starting point for a multitude of reasons. 

 

 

Plus they could call it "IL-2 South Pacific". Make it a musical 🤣

 

Edit: seriously though, I like the idea...great aircraft involved, combat that suits the current game engine etc. Calling it "South Pacific" really would help sidestep any issues of people not knowing what New Guinea was about.

Edited by Rekt

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On 4/10/2019 at 4:27 PM, -IRRE-Therion said:

@77.CountZero @PoochnbooAlthough I am absolutely not a US fan - God no! 

 

 

Excuse me Sir, do you have a minute to talk about Our Lord and Savior R-2800 Double Wasp? 🤣🤣🤣

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I voted for Spain because I would really like to fly aircrafts of 1930ties in a longer conflict and with a nice landscape. But Italy in the phase when the allied forces destroyed the railways and bridges to the south would be fine too.

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Ideas like Papua New Guinea are commendable, but for the Pacific Theatre, Pearl Harbor would be the ultimate sim scenario.  

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3 hours ago, Trek64Trek64 said:

Ideas like Papua New Guinea are commendable, but for the Pacific Theatre, Pearl Harbor would be the ultimate sim scenario.  

It's possible that my sarcasm detector is malfunctioning, since I can't tell whether or not you're kidding.

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Did the Pearl Harbour thing in Pacific Fighters for IL2... after you have flown it half a dozen times it becomes bloody boring.

Nothing ultimate in that...

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On ‎4‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 4:48 PM, =27=Davesteu said:


Midway and especially Okinawa were bad ideas from the beginning.

 

Okinawa, definitely bad - very one-sided, Midway not. Midway would have been ideal for settling-in the carrier-based side of the Pacific theatre. However, I suspect that the carriers are what's caused the postponement. Apart from the logistics of programming into the game a fully-operational carrier and the taking-off and landing of planes onto it, just imagine the amount of flak one throws into the air, let alone a whole battle group. Attacking a carrier group would become an instant slideshow.

It has to be a land-based Pacific scenario if we are going to go there. New Guinea fits the bill very well and has been said some of the Allied aircraft already exist in one form or another. The Slot would be a good follow-up but with all Pacific scenarios the air bases are an immense distance apart. Blame the Japanese for their un-armoured and lightweight construction designs! It is possible to get at least some of the New Guinea airfields on the same map, so lets hope for that.

 

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If they do PTO there will have to be many compromises, i also think that amount of flaks on carriers or battleships is big problem but you can give mission makers options to have only what ever % they decide of flak active on ships, ( we would do that in il-2 1946 with simple mods) you dont need 60-100 flaks tracking and shooting, 10-15 is more then enought per ship, or not every ship needs to be shooting at historic rates, in 1946 you could adjust that also.

 

And for big distances they can just make islands in 1:1 scale, and then distances betwen far islands shorter, so insted 400km betwen okinawa and closest bases you get them to be 100km, and so on, no one will be missing 4h flying times that they would just fly on autopilot at 16x speed in SP, and then you do it all on one map, not mutch bigger then BoBp map.

 

Or you can make Battle of Midway bt you include more maps for it to cover campaign from paqrl harbor to midway with more then just midway, plansets are basicly the same... so its not just few days battle but many months... and just call it what ever name is more atractive, like they do with BoBp, its not just one day its almost 1 year of campaig.

 

Also you dont have info about every gauge or what ever stuff for japan airplane, just do best you think it would look/work and its enought.

 

How ships looked and operated in 1946 was more then enought i dont need more complex ships then that in my flying game, spawn me on deck and lets roll, i dont need working elevators or detailed stuff inside the ship, it can be empty shell as far i care, just make it so flying expiriance is good.

 

If they wont to do it they can do it, and ppl will understand why things need to be done that way, full realistic pto is imposible, and to not have carrier battles when going in pto would be waist.

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On 5/20/2019 at 1:52 PM, Poochnboo said:

It's possible that my sarcasm detector is malfunctioning, since I can't tell whether or not you're kidding.

 

Garden variety troll.

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On 5/10/2019 at 7:45 PM, Rekt said:

 

 

Plus they could call it "IL-2 South Pacific". Make it a musical 🤣

 

 

Nothing says Pacific carrier battles like an Il-2 Sturmovik. It cuts right through the confusion like Red Baron II - The Second Gulf War. 

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Feathered_IV said:

 

Nothing says Pacific carrier battles like an Il-2 Sturmovik. It cuts right through the confusion like Red Baron II - The Second Gulf War. 

You actually make a decent argument, there. Maybe branching off into a new series might be the way to go. "Zero! The Pacific and Asian Air War!" Or possibly concentrate on the carrier aspect of it. "Flattop! The Air War in The Pacific!" 

Edited by Poochnboo

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15 hours ago, Feathered_IV said:

Nothing says Pacific carrier battles like an Il-2 Sturmovik. It cuts right through the confusion like Red Baron II - The Second Gulf War. 

 

Have you ever consiered making a career out of this?

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Boy, Combat Flight Simulator 2. I played that to death! Years of fun. Had a ton of add-ons for it. Planes and campaigns, some payware P-38's and P-51'B's. There was a terrific free campaign that was done by some talented guys that gave you a beautiful (at the time) P-40E. The Defence of Darwin, I think. I don't know how they went so wrong with CFS3 after doing such a great sim.

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Posted (edited)

😀😀.  We already have some aircraft such as p40..p39...p47..soon p38&p51&mitchell ia...and spits of which the variants could be used as basis. My guess is not first up carrier battle but usaaf&marine 'land/island' battle. Just my guess. See also dd217 that refers to a distant secret island.

Edited by Luger1969

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I would go Pacific > Africa > France/Spain/Southern Europe

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50 minutes ago, 15[Span.]/JG51Spartan said:

The Battle of Coral Sea as a prelude to Midway. :gamer:

See, I don't get the point of that. Almost the same ships and aircraft in both battles. It's not as though we're going to play battles as they really occurred. No one does that now. We use a certain map, and then just do our own thing. Is someone going to be Nagumo, and someone else Spruance, or Nimitz? Are we going to reenact the part where the Japanese delayed the attack because they were switching their bombers from bombs to torpedoes? Are we going to have the SBD's dive on the Japanese fleet unmolested? No. So we aren't going to follow history, so what's the difference? 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, 15[Span.]/JG51Spartan said:

The Battle of Coral Sea as a prelude to Midway. :gamer:

I would even add more:

 

Call it Battle of Midway for name sake, but you can have min of 3 maps, one Midway area, one Aleutians area, and one map just sea.

 

And you make campaigns for:

The Battle of the Coral Sea, 4–8 May 1942
A6M2-21, D3A1, B5N2 , Shokaku, Zuikaku and Shoho
F4F-3/3A, SBD3, TBD1 , Lexington and Yorktown

 

Battle of Midway, 4-7 June 1942

A6M2-21, B5N2, D3A1, F1M2 , D4Y1-C , Kaga, Akagi, Hiryu and Soryu

F2A-3, F4F-4, TBD-1, SBD-3, TBF-1, PBY-5A, B-26A... , Enterprise, Hornet and Yorktown

 

Aleutians (Dutch Harbor, Umnak and Cold Bay area)
A6M2-21,B5N2, D3A1 , Junyo and Ryujo
P-40E, PBY, B-26A...

 

Battle of the Eastern Solomons, 24–25 August 1942
A6M2-21, B5N2, D3A1 , Shokaku, Zuikaku and Ryujo 
F4F4, SBD3, TBF1 , Saratoga and Enterprise

 

Battle of the Santa Cruz Islands, 26 October 1942
A6M2-21 and A6M3-32, B5N2, D3A2 , Shokaku, Zuikaku and Junyo 
F4F4, SBD3, TBF1 , Hornet and Enterprise 

 

So you basicly need only this 10 airplanes + AI and cover all that preaty good:

A6M2-21
B5N2
D3A1
F1M2
A6M3-32

 

F2A-3 (or F4F-3)
F4F-4
TBD-1
SBD-3
TBF-1  

 

Most carriers are same class so not mutch work needed at start

 

Ai only PBY-5A, make it flyable with time. (P-40E is in game as collectable already)

 

And later you can even make separate Pearl Harbor map with its campaign, and P-40B as pack for 30-40$

Edited by 77.CountZero
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11 hours ago, Poochnboo said:

Boy, Combat Flight Simulator 2. I played that to death! Years of fun. Had a ton of add-ons for it. Planes and campaigns, some payware P-38's and P-51'B's. There was a terrific free campaign that was done by some talented guys that gave you a beautiful (at the time) P-40E. The Defence of Darwin, I think. I don't know how they went so wrong with CFS3 after doing such a great sim.

 

I got such great fun out of CFS2.  If only it worked with trackir or mouselook, I'd still be using it today.

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Posted (edited)

Idk if im such a big fan of the pacific anyway, the travel times over open water would be ridiculous in single player. The f6f had a range of over 900 miles.

Spain sounds interesting.

Edited by fogpipe

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Flight times are not an issue - you just make the map smaller.

For something like the Solomons you scale down the map, but keep the islands the same size - not a difficult fix.

 

For crying out loud, everyone clamors for B-17's and what is that flight time round trip?

 

 

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Guaranteed the open water parts of the maps will be significantly compressed. Landmasses will generally be to scale.

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Let's simply compress all the "large" water areas between the Solomon Islands and go for a generic Island map. A map of just Guadalcanal and the Florida Islands would work as well, but let's not forget about all those easily done generic carriers without advanced AI. That would be a heck of a lot of fun to play! Why not call it "Pacific Fighters"?

 

On a more serious note: Neither a compressed Solomon Islands map nor a carrier battles compilation pack is going to happen. There are three options:

  1. They abandon the Asiatic-Pacific Theatre plans
  2. They try to make the Battle Midway happen
  3. They do Papua & New Guinea 1942 - 1943 because it's by far the most feasible scenario and offers the greatest variety
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You need Zeke vs Wildcat - the end.

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Hi. What could be a possible plane set for Papua & New Guinea 1942 - 1943

 

 

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Lots

Oscar, P-40, A-20, Beaufighter and more.

It would be a good second or third PTO release, but need to get Zeke and Wildcat happening first. That’s the classic matchup.

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Posted (edited)

For Guadalcanal map in 1:1 scale from south san cristobal island to atleast Rabaul would be ~1300kmx1000km, they can probably make that and would not be to mutch to fly in SP as you can just timeskip for historical campaigns, in MP you wuld just have either airstarts close or use closer bases for DF servers, historical aspects dont mather online. 

But they can easy make island distances as short they wont, make whole map half scale and no one would even notice, and it would be bearly bigger then bobp map then and 90% sea.

Jap_Bases.jpg

 

 

But go for first time to PTO after so many years and not have carrier opertions would fail, Midway is only option 😄

Edited by 77.CountZero
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Plus with a slot map you not only have Zekes and Wildcats early, but Corsairs vs Zekes mid-war.

 

Not Oscar vs P-40 isn’t classic in it's own right mind you.

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Posted (edited)

I'm starting to wonder about all of this.

We can beat ourselves to death with 'what is the best Pacific scenario to start with' and 'which maps we get' and' how to make them playable' personally I'd like to see them all at 1:1 (but then I'm a masochist who doesn't mind long flight times and would fly bombers/attack planes most of the time).

I'm just thinking that Il-2 BoX is now five and a half years old - the early alpha access was November 2013 so in truth it's probably six years since development started.

With the postponement and lack of subsequent info regarding development of BoPacific perhaps the dev team are looking at a new game engine? It would make sense to me to keep developing BoX, TC and FC in the hope that enough dosh can be generated to begin the next, totally new series. TankCrew especially seems made for this, to my mind. Although it's coming along nicely and I really like it, wasn't a logical step in the road map; and truth be told, neither was Flying Circus. I own EVERYTHING in Rise of Flight - why am I mad enough to buy (the new bits of) it all over again with less functionality. But I have and I will.

In a way I really am hoping that Jason and the gang are looking at a totally new game engine and a totally new all-singing all-dancing Pacific CFS that will blow all of our socks off!

Just two things... is there such a game engine and do the team have enough dosh to develop what we crave?

Edited by Red_Cat
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no need for new game engine as they dont have any competition.

For PTO how big map is is is probably not limiting game as mostly is just empty sea, bobp would be most demanding map in game then any PTO map i would guess.

Also most bombers are single gunner if its ships vs ships, and then only limiting factor loooks like could be how detail they wont ships to be and if your able to limit flaks on ships that can shoot and on what rate of fire (and they can do this as options to help game deal with big number of ships).

They can just keep seling new DLC every 1.5-2years and stedy improve like they do now and no need for time spend on creating new game engine, when no one els is doing what they are doing.

55 minutes ago, Luger1969 said:

Hi. What could be a possible plane set for Papua & New Guinea 1942 - 1943

 

 

Probably something from this group:

 

Axis:

A6M2/3
D3A2
G4M1
Ki-21
Ki-43
Ki-45
Ki-51
Ki-61

Allieds:

P-38
P-39
P-40
P-47
P-61
A-20
B-17
B-24
B-25
C-47
Beaufighter
Hudson
Beaufort
Vultee Vengeance

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Posted (edited)

I) Papua & eastern New Guinea August 1942 - Summer 1943 campaign

Tactical: Kokoda Track campaign  - Battle of Milne Bay - Battle of Buna–Gona - Battle of the Bismarck Sea - Salamaua–Lae campaign

Strategic: Bombing of Rabaul


A6M3 Mod. 32 (early Mod. 22 could be a modification)

Ki-43-I Otsu/Hei

G4M1 Mod. 11 or Ki-48-I
D3A2 Mod. 22

Ki-61-I Kou (Otsu/Hei could be modifications) - Premium

---------------vs.------------------

P-38F-5

P-39D-1/2

B-26-MA or B-25C (early block)

Beaufighter Mk. I

P-40K-1 or P-47D-2 - Premium

 

Reusable: P-40E-1, B-25D (late block) if flyable by then

 

 

II) Battle of the Coral Sea

 

A6M2 Mod. 21*

B5N2

D3A1*
Carriers: Shokaku, Zuikaku, Shoho

---------------vs.------------------

F4F-3

TBD-1

SBD-3*

Carriers: Yorktown, Lexington

 

Aircraft marked with an asterisks can also be used in the Papua & eastern New Guinea campaign and extend its timeframe to Spring 1942 - Summer 1943.

Edited by =27=Davesteu
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12 hours ago, Red_Cat said:

We can beat ourselves to death with 'what is the best Pacific scenario to start with...

 

For some reason I have never felt like beating myself to death over any game... I'll take what comes whenever they decide to make it.

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