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BryanHolland

Will there ever be a manual engine startup?

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Hello! I just bought the BoS game because i like CoD and i had HUGE disappointment to know that in the "Battle of ..." series there is no manual engine startup. I was planning to buy BofM and BofK but now I am confused.

I guess most IL-2 fans like the game because of its simulation of the real aircrart. This "press-E-key-to-do-all-the-job" thing makes a huge "arcade impact" to the user's experience. I just can't understand why they don't let players to assign keys and do a manual start of the engine. It's not that hard to do. 

 

May be this is a dumb question but will the Developers ever do a manual engine startup in the future?

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Me personaly i dont want to spend my precious time to press or click multiple keys to start the plane. I have Hans , he is my mechanic to start the engine.

No thanks, i dont want manual start up .

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Not a dumb question, but no there is no manual startup and likely will not be based on previous comments from the Devs.

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I don't know anyone that bothers with cold start, let alone wishes for a complete manual startup. Personally, I wouldn't mind it as an option but most of the time I wouldn't use it. I don't have enough time to fly this sim as it is so the majority of the time I just want to get in and go, although I am someone that prefers taxying rather than runway or airstarts.

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Yes it's pretty fun for the first 2-5 times. But it also would mean a lot more work for every Plane and 50 more buttons tht you neet to assign and don't need in flight. It's a Compromise that gives us a lot more Content for a lot less money. 

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Short Answer: No

 

This has been discussed here countless times. You can search around but the answer remains the same. The team won't change that.

And i personally don´t need it.

 

 

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I skipped over Clod so didn't experience it, but i'd like to see it as an option perhaps one day.

 

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I would be nice to have option to choose when you connect inertia starter and how long you press it to successfully start the engine 

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I like to think of such things as "assumed pilot intelligence", where he is a full fledged Air Force pilot and knows how to do certain things. Although being able to turn off gunsight and other such things would be nice. 

Edited by SShrike
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1 hour ago, BryanHolland said:

Hello! I just bought the BoS game because i like CoD and i had HUGE disappointment to know that in the "Battle of ..." series there is no manual engine startup. I was planning to buy BofM and BofK but now I am confused.

I guess most IL-2 fans like the game because of its simulation of the real aircrart. This "press-E-key-to-do-all-the-job" thing makes a huge "arcade impact" to the user's experience. I just can't understand why they don't let players to assign keys and do a manual start of the engine. It's not that hard to do. 

 

May be this is a dumb question but will the Developers ever do a manual engine startup in the future?

 

I'd be interested in it too, but it is ultimately impractical in a survey sim like IL-2. Just firing up the P-47D-28 involves about 40-50 unique inputs (I haven't counted but it's at least two banks of dudes and radio settings) that are otherwise never touched again. 

 

And, it's a completely different set of unique commands to start the P-40E-1.

 

At a minimum, it would need clickable cockpits, and if they go there, I'd rather see things like the arming and rack drop system handled first. (The P47D-28 used the rack drop controls for both the drop tanks and the bombs.) 

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Would be amazing to have. At least to some extent like in CloD. Once you learn it, it becomes second nature and you can start up at the same speed as the automated one-button-start-procedure. I have the DCS Spitfire and it's easy peasy. Sadly not going to happen. Devs are dead set on making IL-2 more as a fun game, than a fun sim.

 

 

19 minutes ago, Voyager said:

And, it's a completely different set of unique commands to start the P-40E-1.

 

Presumably they all have fuel cocks, magnetos etc. though? Some user input could provide some more immersion if nothing else.

 

For instance:

1. Set throttle to 10%

2. Fuel cock on

3. Pump for pressure

4. Magnetos

5. Start

All other things are done automatically (or between user inputs where necessary).

 

That way you can have aircraft waiting at standby ready to start their engines at a moment's notice.

 

Also, I'm not sure, but is it possible in BoS to increase/decrease gunsight illumination and switch it independantly on/off? I always assumed it was not possible, which I find silly.

 

 

Edited by ACG_Woop
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2 hours ago, BryanHolland said:

 This "press-E-key-to-do-all-the-job" thing makes a huge "arcade impact" to the user's experience. 

 

I wouldn´t have touched this game with a ten-foot pole if it would not have that press-E-function. To each his own I guess.

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10 minutes ago, ACG_Woop said:

Would be amazing to have. At least to some extent like in CloD. Once you learn it, it becomes second nature and you can start up at the same speed as the automated one-button-start-procedure. I have the DCS Spitfire and it's easy peasy. Sadly not going to happen. Devs are dead set on making IL-2 more as a fun game, than a sim.

It's a sim of aircombat from a certain period of history, not a training aid to fly the real thing

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1 minute ago, Elem said:

It's a sim of aircombat from a certain period of history, not a training aid to fly the real thing

 

1946 even had a semblance of user input on start up... You don't have to learn to fly the real thing, but you could at least feel like you could, with a little ore user input.

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 @ACG_WoopIf you have both planes start them, and watch the routine. It's been a while since I started the P-40, but I recall it involving a lot of waiting for things to spin up. While the Thunderbolt seems to start faster, it's electrical system is convoluted. 

 

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I have the full CH HOTAS set up with the Quadrant, and I don't have enough buttons/axis/levers as it is.  The start procedure is fine as it is.

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1 hour ago, Voyager said:

 @ACG_WoopIf you have both planes start them, and watch the routine. It's been a while since I started the P-40, but I recall it involving a lot of waiting for things to spin up. While the Thunderbolt seems to start faster, it's electrical system is convoluted. 

 

 

With regards to American aircraft - crews started them before the pilot was on site.

So a cold manual start for any of them would be a pointless waste.

 

Other aircraft like A-20’s in Russia were started with the crew present.

 

 

 

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I enjoy doing the full-on pilot thing in the click-pits of DCS and X-Plane, but given that the IL-2 devs are a small team, I prefer that they focus on making the core features of the sim shine.

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2 hours ago, ACG_Woop said:

Would be amazing to have. At least to some extent like in CloD. Once you learn it, it becomes second nature and you can start up at the same speed as the automated one-button-start-procedure. I have the DCS Spitfire and it's easy peasy. Sadly not going to happen. Devs are dead set on making IL-2 more as a fun game, than a fun sim.

 

I disagree, If a job is worth doing then it is worth doing properly. It should either go full study sim with full click pit or not at all. No half assed measures like in CloD thank you very much

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If the game featured manual starts and therefore clickable cockpits, each aircraft would cost $50 and take a year to make. 

So this whole game series would cost $1,500 and wouldn’t be finished until 2044. I’m glad to have press “E”

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My pet feature is not here so the game is ... the dreaded "A" word ... arcade.  Oh well.  I'll go ahead and keep pressing the trigger.  It's probably simulated water coming out to fill up the enemy AC until it pops.  Maybe one day I'll be able to get the bomb in the cup.

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3 hours ago, Voidhunger said:

Me personaly i dont want to spend my precious time to press or click multiple keys to start the plane. I have Hans , he is my mechanic to start the engine.

No thanks, i dont want manual start up .

 

This is not a real argument because even if there was a manual start up, you would have the "magic E key" to start your engine. Just like in DCS.

 

I also would love manuel start up, this is a + for immersion, and you feel a bit more like a (virtual) warbird pilot. But, they would need to make the clikable cockpit (to me there is no sense to use keyboard). And this is not going to happen, so whatever. The sim is already great like this.

Edited by F/JG300_Faucon

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3 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

If the game featured manual starts and therefore clickable cockpits, each aircraft would cost $50 and take a year to make. 

So this whole game series would cost $1,500 and wouldn’t be finished until 2044. I’m glad to have press “E”

"I want X, i want Y, the other game has them. I want Z too. Why is it taking so long."

I have DCS aircraft/helicopters I never use the manual start up. Using a mouse to click around ones screen is as immersive as pressing "e", less so in my opinion.

This game is as advertised and I like the frequency of updates, content release.  I love the performance. We don't need feature creep that will slow the development and reduce performance which is the trademark of DCS.

 

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What I think I and all the other REAL sim fans have been waiting for is for someone to FINALLY develop a ground crew simulator. Where I go through the REAL process of starting the plane. After which, I can stand back, and do period appropriate activities/tasks at the base while the AI pilot to gets on with his mission. BTW time compression is for wussies.

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5 hours ago, BryanHolland said:

 i like CoD and i had HUGE disappointment to know that in the "Battle of ..." series there is no manual engine startup. 

You do know that CoD was a commercial failure right?

A big part of that failure was spending so much money to make all the aircraft with clickable cockpits. In any other sim aircraft like that sell for $30-$50 apiece. Cliffs tried to sell the entire game for that amount. 

 

Clickable cockpits are not worthwhile for WWII aircraft because they’re only used for start up. Once that’s done every control is done with a joystick or HOTAS. Modern aircraft have complex systems that might require mouse interaction for a combat game but not WWII. And this is an air combat sim, not an aircraft starting sim. Combat simulation requires this game to have dozens of flyable aircraft to oppose each other. So filling the skies with aircraft is impossible if they all cost $50 apiece and take several years to make each one. 

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@Bryan from St. Petersburg;  in BoS, to start a Spitfire you click once.  In CLoD, to start a Spitfire you click twice.

 

Perhaps take a little time to explore the game you just bought.....

 

 

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6 hours ago, BryanHolland said:

Hello! I just bought the BoS game because i like CoD and i had HUGE disappointment to know that in the "Battle of ..." series there is no manual engine startup. I was planning to buy BofM and BofK but now I am confused.

 

This doesn’t really make sense- do you really think clicking the fuel cock open ...and then pressing start engine key somehow is more immersive than this?

 

The only big disappointment here I think is the way Clod has such crude engine startup procedure which feels like operating a toy where you just pull a lever and then start.

 

I was amazed when I started this sim for the first time and saw all the systems and switches flicking on and the machine coming to life. They’ve done this really well- I don’t feel need for any of that klickpittery when we can see it being done in front of us right now.

 

Regards

Edited by Bilbo_Baggins
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2 hours ago, LukeFF said:

If I may...

 

giphy.gif

 

You may sir - you may...

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2 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

You do know that CoD was a commercial failure right?

A big part of that failure was spending so much money to make all the aircraft with clickable cockpits. In any other sim aircraft like that sell for $30-$50 apiece. Cliffs tried to sell the entire game for that amount. 

 

 

No, the big part of the failure was the broken state they released that sim in. Nothing to do with the few switches that could be flipped.

Their click pits were so limited it was not that big a deal. It was not like full fidelity click-pits.

 

Really no reason for there to be even a debate on this guys, it has been stated several times in the past this is not a road they are going to go down.

Love the sim for what it is ! I know I do each and every day!

 

BTW for you SP guys , PWCG is working on a version to have cold start and taxi to runway at mission start. Hopefully they will be able to accomplish this and have it offered as an option/version for guys that enjoy that sort of thing.

 

 

Edited by dburne

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In ww2 birds I feel like the effort isn't worth the reward, at all. I play DCS a lot and after a while starting the p51 or spitfire becomes tedious after the 40th time. In modern aircraft with more systems I feel like it is more worth the time it would take to implement it. 

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This is something I would also like to see, BUT ... (and this is a "big but" hehe) I accept that the devs simply didn't envison the game that way. 

 

If we were to have added realism to systems, I would rather see first proper handling of the RL autopilot systems that each plane really had (or not!). Merelly pressing "autopilot" to simply fly level is more "arcadish" than not starting up everything manually.

 

The second thing I feel we should have is a more "hands-on" interaction with radio navigation gear. 

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9 hours ago, BryanHolland said:

Hello! I just bought the BoS game because i like CoD and i had HUGE disappointment to know that in the "Battle of ..." series there is no manual engine startup. I was planning to buy BofM and BofK but now I am confused.

I guess most IL-2 fans like the game because of its simulation of the real aircrart. This "press-E-key-to-do-all-the-job" thing makes a huge "arcade impact" to the user's experience. I just can't understand why they don't let players to assign keys and do a manual start of the engine. It's not that hard to do. 

 

May be this is a dumb question but will the Developers ever do a manual engine startup in the future?

Hi and welcome to the forum!

Of course the auto start is making arcade, some pilots would like to see manual start and requested it.

As I understood, the devs said that it is a HUGE work to implement it , and the cost is much higher than the benefit.

Sometimes even simple things requires a ton of work to do .

 

 

Sure, manual start up is is not available, but IL2 great battles has other very good things that outcome this in my opinion .

Enjoy and watch your six!

Edited by TG1_Nil
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That other sim with warbirds has manual start up...maybe that's more your cup of tea?

Keep in mind all the systems are modeled and function, they're just automated.   

This has been asked many times, and it's not going to happen, per Jason himself.  I used to want the option as well, but I've learned to live and enjoy the game without it. 

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yeah i wouldnt mind if its an option. theres always those moments where you really want to use full procedures. and there will always be a moment where you are just to lazy to do all that stuff and jusr press E and take off.

 

 

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