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-=NT=-Baur

Baur`s KG 13 Grip.

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Thank you Sokol1 yes I wondered if you could make this

 

9ec360a6-2dba-4e63-8e5a-a15f4f7fa753_zps

 

With your base , I am serious. I got currently this setuo

 

5CB38381-5390-4C49-9899-BA2FC21B4ED5_zps

But I wish for a extra control for single engine.

lol what are you a closet pilot? Looks like your hiding your hobby from people in a closet?

 

lol

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Allright, yesterday I had the chance to actually try the Stick out ingame for the first time. Very smooth and precise movements are now possible, thanks to the CAM there is no clunk when crossing the center. Currently I'm using the "smooth" CAM profile,which was already assembled. Included was another CAM profile,one with a more noticable center,I have yet to try it out. Anyone who is using MFG Crosswind or Slaw pedals knows the advantages of using CAM profiles.

It's also possible to adjust the spring strenghts,there are 2 notches to adjust tension. It should also be no problem to use stronger springs if anyone wants even higher tension.

 

The Grip itself is of the same outstanding quality as the base. The Buttons are all easy to reach and require less force than the Warthogs,which is a good thing in my opinion. One feature I really like is the Trigger and how it is used to secure the Gun and Cannon button. It needs to be flipped down in order to "arm" the weapons. None of the 4 buttons can be pressed by accident.

 

I had to modify my Chair in order to get full deflection, as expected the Stick has a very large throw and you need to operate it with your whole arm. This propably needs some time to get used to. After around 2 hours of flight it didn't get uncomfortable.

It's the best Stick I've used to date,and I tried many. After desperately trying for months to get hold of a VKB Stick or the Gimbal upgrade for the Black Mamba ( I have a Black Mamba MK.I,but never liked the Gimbal system). I'm glad I had such a bad luck with VKB,otherwise I would have missed out on Baur's excellent work!

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is there any chance I can get this with a CH fighter stick style?

 

I'm all for this analog type, as the new commercially rushed joystick jobs that are digital seem like crap.

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You mean this? F-16 Combatstick grip on BAUR base.

 

file_php_id_6697.jpg

 

Just send the CH Fighterstick grip for BAUR and he assembly in their gimbal, with your choice of USB controller and sensors for axis.

Any grip can be used, eve real one like LuseKofte want, or the Mig, Mi that BAUR show.

 

Although is possible still using CH USB controller for manage the buttons, HAT, for axis is not advisable because this gimbal is done for use contact less sensor, not potentiometers.

And using for example GVL224 MagREZ sensor in analog mode - so compatible with CH controller, this controller obsolete circuit limited to 8 bits - 256 points of resolution - will hamper the usability.

 

Maybe the  best compromise is continue using the CH controller for buttons, to retain compatibility with their programming software - important for some users, useless for others - and run contactless sensor through a modern USB controller with 12 bits (4096 points) of resolution. In this case the new joystick will be two devices for Windows and games, but no collateral effect.

 

The Combatstick in the above link was wired in this way, is mater of owner choice.

 

Quote
I'm all for this analog type, as the new commercially rushed joystick jobs that are digital seem like crap.

 

Not sure what you want mean with this "analog"...  

 

Today the most advanced joysticks use contactless sensors for ready axis input (Warthog, VKB, MFG, Slaw, BAUR) an they can work in analog and digital modes - the best ones is in digital.

 

Generic entry level joysticks and the ancient/obsolete CH still using pontentiometers, in analog mode although they can be used in digital mode too, but this will cost a ADC more (~1$) for manufacturer, so...

Edited by Sokol1
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wes.whir7_zps2jvdcydx.jpgwes.whir.2_zpst31lq9wh.jpg

 

 

 

I bought this for use in Baurs base A westland Whirlwind , but I am going to assemble it myself. Shipping problems with added weight

Edited by 216th_LuseKofte
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Just send the CH Fighterstick grip for BAUR and he assembly in their gimbal, with your choice of USB controller and sensors for axis.

Any grip can be used, eve real one like LuseKofte want, or the Mig, Mi that BAUR show.

 

Although is possible still using CH USB controller for manage the buttons, HAT, for axis is not advisable because this gimbal is done for use contact less sensor, not potentiometers.

And using for example GVL224 MagREZ sensor in analog mode - so compatible with CH controller, this controller obsolete circuit limited to 8 bits - 256 points of resolution - will hamper the usability.

 

Maybe the  best compromise is continue using the CH controller for buttons, to retain compatibility with their programming software - important for some users, useless for others - and run contactless sensor through a modern USB controller with 12 bits (4096 points) of resolution. In this case the new joystick will be two devices for Windows and games, but no collateral effect.

Thank Sokol all right!

 

Today the most advanced joysticks use contactless sensors for ready axis input (Warthog, VKB, MFG, Slaw, BAUR) an they can work in analog and digital modes - the best ones is in digital.

No, not true.  :biggrin:  Another sequence - VKB, BAUR, Warthog, Slaw ,MFG.

MFG in this line is the latest. That's like my pedal February - 2011 BRD-F1(2) - http://avia-sim.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=634

 Shipping problems with added weight

Shipping & Customs - a sore point of my work. My headache :(

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Another sequence - VKB, BAUR, Warthog, Slaw ,MFG.

MFG in this line is the latest.

 

 

 

LOL. OK.  :)

 

But I don't put MFG behind Warthog - electronics wise  they use the same (Melexis) sensor used in Thrustmaster, their USB controller is based on modern PIC mc, don't have the "brick" tendency of Tm controller, their firmware is more tuned with flight gamers needs, and they are make by guy that before all was a simmer (like you, Slaw or VKB guys) - not a big company focused in profit at all cost.

 

Some people still have bias with the composite material used in their pedal frames, but I don't see issue in this, if have the needed resistance.

 

This is a real grip of F-15 fighter, notice that is not made in "metal is real" like Warthog/Cougar owners propagates.  ;)

 

F_15_grip.jpg

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It is plain stupid having a joystick in steel when rest of the plane are based on weight, there is absolutely no advantage replacing composite, rubber and plastic where these types does it job.

There is a reason for super cars  lack of automatic gear, motorized windows and such, even servo steering are in some cases out the window.

However, in my floor I like to have steel, it will manage the weight ;)

Edited by 216th_LuseKofte
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I would just like to do a shout out for Baur (Thanks mate!) and his wonderful joysticks, My one arrived yesterday and I couldn't be happier! Would recommend these sticks to anyone serious about their ww2 simming! :biggrin:  :biggrin:  :biggrin:

post-81839-0-51453900-1479272283_thumb.jpg

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Baur, did you already tried to make force feedback joysticks? It would be perfect to have a FFB stick with the FFB that can be activated (Ww2, light civilian flight) OR desactivated for only emulating spring forces (jets), ideally with a simple mechanical switch on the base. The Microsoft FFB2 was a great joystick but it lacks a grip with enough hats/switches and has that feeling of motor reduction gears in the stick - maybe today it could be done better (powerful brushless motors with less need of reduction - the simwheel for car racing are top notch!).

Edited by ZnarF
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Okay! But if one day you try such experiment, let us know! (Cheap but quality brushless motors -with laaargely enough torque- and suited controlers are easily findable on Hobbyking.com for example)

Edited by ZnarF

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ZnarF

 

Force Feedback involve million dollar patents:

 

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20080527/1619231238.shtml

 

Is not viable for small producers, like Baur, VKB, MFG pay this. I bet that after Logitech G-940 market failure other brand will not venture in make a FFB stick for flight simulation.

 

Maybe a kind of "open source"... until Immersion take a look in then. :

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=146343

Edited by Sokol1

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Thanks Sokol, I understand better the issue... So, you point the only actual solution: take a female MS FFB2 and put her in a room a night with a Warthog grip... ;-) But more seriously, a DIY solution involving new generation brushless would result in far better and precise FFB - I suppose the patent will expire not too far away?

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Design patents usually last for 14 or 20 years (I am no patent expert )....the patent for FFB is either with Atari or Immersion (or both)

 

but it must be very close to running out now, all of that mess was from the nineties

 

I wonder how some of the VERY small companies that make high end FFB wheels for racing sims in (comparative) tiny production runs

 

solve this issue

 

Cheers Dakpilot

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Yeah its a shame that we have no FFB joystick exept the G940 which is crap and the MS FFB2 that i never used and therefore dont know how it is. :/

the patens [edited] . :)

 

So where can i look for some Baur/BRD equipment and how much would all this cost me here in europe, im looking for a replacement for my Warthog and it should last 5+ years minimum?

Edited by SYN_Haashashin
Lenguage

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Hi Baur which is at moment the price for the only stik KG13 without base.

And could be possiple instal the KG13 on the base of Force Feedback 2 ?

Regards

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Hi Baur which is at moment the price for the only stik KG13 without base.

Hello! 14000 rubles together with delivery.

post-2357-0-98804800-1499318002_thumb.jpg

And could be possiple instal the KG13 on the base of Force Feedback 2 ?

post-2357-0-13593100-1499318126_thumb.jpg

I never made such an option. That's how the buttons are connected inside. It all depends on your ability to work with your hands.

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The scheme posted by Baur is 4x1 matrix.

 

Microsoft FFB2 PCB on grip has diodes, what indicates a Diode Matrix, so you need "decode" what matrix is... (lines x columns).

 

A alternative is fit a a Arduino PRO Micro, Teensy... inside KG-13 grip and use only for grip buttons, this solution became 2 "joysticks" for  Windows, what is not problem for modern flight games - but maybe is for FPS games with "flight things" (Bf's e cia).

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Test Car RC Dampers on BRD's:  :)

 

post-842-0-44736200-1480181211.jpg

 

post-842-0-50405300-1480181223.jpg

 

post-842-0-43354300-1480181232.jpg

 

Seems don't give much "feel".  :biggrin:

 

http://avia-sim.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=928

 

 

So from what I can gather from the translated page (can't read actual Russian), it seems like Baur couldn't get them to produce a significant force without breaking the dampers through modification?  Is that correct?

 

I would love to be able to add this to my BRD-N.  My BRD F1 pedals are still the best (most realistic feeling) piece of gear I have with the damper installed.

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Look's that is this, R/C damper don' t have strength/durability to be used in joysticks.

 

Need at least motorcycle steering dampers, what require more space for installation.

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:) The above dampers could not stand the exams :)) They do not fit. But the idea works!

 

My BRD-F1 pedals are still the best (most realistic feeling) piece of gear I have with the damper installed.

 

On pedals BRD-F1 I install a completely different damper. It withstands the load.

 

 

Need at least motorcycle steering dampers, what require more space for installation.

 

YES, absolutely true! A more lasting solution is needed.

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Hello! 14000 rubles together with delivery.

attachicon.gifP1000-2.jpg

attachicon.gifkg13 buttons.jpg

I never made such an option. That's how the buttons are connected inside. It all depends on your ability to work with your hands.

Helo Baur, i would like to order a kg 13 stik  without base. How can i pay ? Best regards  wulfmen

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Baur, that looks fantastic. I know its more or less an replica of the real thing but would be cool to have a handrest. Maybe its must have for simmers. I know that the stick itself is better looking without handrest.

Vkb gunfighter come with kg12 grip having handrest.

Here is mine but i modded it for lefthand usage.

post-102888-0-73352300-1500569371_thumb.jpgpost-102888-0-83246500-1500569597_thumb.jpg

 

Btw Baur that kg13 looks amazing, you nailed it! I see a lot of buyers here.

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On 3/12/2015 at 8:58 PM, -=NT=-Baur said:

 

KG13 for Thrustmaster Warthog.

 

post-2357-0-74741300-1426190238_thumb.jpgpost-2357-0-00992200-1426190244_thumb.jpgpost-2357-0-22893600-1426190251_thumb.jpgpost-2357-0-40593200-1426190259_thumb.jpgpost-2357-0-98617400-1426190267_thumb.jpg


I'm interested in buy this KG13 grip replica, for Hotas Warthog, is possible to buy now??

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7 hours ago, III/JG52_Otto_-I- said:

I'm interested in buy this KG13 grip replica, for Hotas Warthog, is possible to buy now??

No guys. Not much is left and everything is already booked. You need to wait for 2020, when this stick will appear in the Virpil shop :) 

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How much are you willing to pay for the metal?

 

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Hi,

I would pay 50 € more for a metal exemplar.

Cant wait to buy it in 2020😀 

Need it for my BRD-N (Warthog Adapter)

Greets

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Do you know why I asked?
Nobody thinks - how much will a metal stick cost?
Metal will be very expensive! After all, we still need to cover the stick handle with rubber.

 

It is better to make it the same plastic.

Just now, -=NT=-Baur said:

...You need to wait for 2020, when this stick will appear in the Virpil shop :) 

It was a joke. I can not make a formal announcement.
However ... I now work together with Virpil ... ;)

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Ok this plastic is good enough. I hope the best with virpil and the KG13. Thank you for the exellent quality of BRD-N Base and the BRD-F3 109 Rudder

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1 hour ago, -=NT=-Baur said:

How much are you willing to pay for the metal?

 

 

Good question .... I guess similar price to the new F18 stick from Warthog :friends:

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Posted (edited)

Seems I bought into the wrong company. Feel like I should of went with Virpil products. They actually carry stock, and have an entire flight sim setup, pedals, throttle and sticks. Plus it will probably be 2020 before VKB has a kg12 stick in stock for purchase by itself again.

Edited by JgonRedcorn

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10 hours ago, 15[Span.]/JG51Spartan said:

 

Good question .... I guess similar price to the new F18 stick from Warthog :friends:

F18 stick has no rubber coating  :)

I do not believe that you buy a metal+rubber coating KG13 stick for 250-290 euros. Such products ruin us.

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I would pay 250-290 € for a metal exemplar but you are right i think the most people would not do.

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Posted (edited)

leu5

 

In the "flea market" of the Russian side of this forum sometimes appear L-39 control grips, that is basically the

Russian P1-M copy of German KG-12/13, made in metal.

 

Or maybe Cheb2006 can cast one in metal for you - since Baur is "out of KG-13 business". ;) 

 

 

BTW - Just as curiosity VKB has a shelved project of a "KG'ish" grip (not 100% replica) made in metal, but at the best was postponed for... 2030. :) 

 

16 hours ago, JgonRedcorn said:

 Plus it will probably be 2020 before VKB has a kg12 stick in stock for purchase by itself again.

 

Redcorn

 

When VKB start sell Gunfighter the only grip options was KG-12A grip, but most of this early buyers don't use this grip, instead Warthog grip, include one used to say that await more than year until MCG PRO was released for test their Gunfigther, seems inconceivable to him touch a... "few buttons grip". :)

 

I guess that is matter of you creating a topic announcing - here and in DCS forum, that want buy one of this grips that this people will remember of their KG-12A in the drawer.

 

Edited by Sokol1

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