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FlyingH

Shot for comitting war crime!

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After todays misssion in BoM feb 8 1942, mission was sucsess, after landing closing the briefing screen I got the message "You were shot for comitting war crime!"!? No more explenaton! What? Happened? I failed to down anything, wasted my ammo in thin air (I´m somewhat rusty after beeing away from the game for a few weeks but this!)

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Simple, do not commit war crimes! 😂

 

Truthfully though, it sounds legit. Battlefield justice. Judge, jury, and executioner.

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Did you hit any friendly forces? Sometimes you have to watch out that when firing at another aircraft your stray rounds don’t hit friendlies on the ground or in the air. 

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I had a ground crew aimlessly wander into my spinning prop while I was parked and shutting down the engine - with predicable results for the crew and a broken engine for me.  Got a friendly fire warning on exiting the mission. 

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Looks to me like it was word crimes. 😜

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10 hours ago, FlyingH said:

After todays misssion in BoM feb 8 1942, mission was sucsess, after landing closing the briefing screen I got the message "You were shot for comitting war crime!"!? No more explenaton! What? Happened? I failed to down anything, wasted my ammo in thin air (I´m somewhat rusty after beeing away from the game for a few weeks but this!)

 

I think you shot a pilot with the parachute that ejected out of his damaged plane... 

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8 hours ago, Yardstick said:

I had a ground crew aimlessly wander into my spinning prop while I was parked and shutting down the engine - with predicable results for the crew and a broken engine for me.  Got a friendly fire warning on exiting the mission. 

 

That may be an unanticipated consequence of making the aircrew destructible: which is a real pity for those of use who like to taxi to the bays to park after landing, since they insist on wandering up and down the taxiways completely ignoring aircraft. 

 

Perhaps the animation should be redesigned so that they wander about behind the bays: ie not on the taxiways.  

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My two cents here.

We have a waypoint system already implemented, with Command Formation etc.

Why not use the same code and have ground crew instead of airplanes. We then very simply design the walking pattern we want around the airfield. We could have single unit (one person crew) or linking them multiple crew members moving together behind a leader. Command Formation would apply with Stop, Continue, or Dense, Loose formation etc...

It is the same logic as with planes groups leader and wingmen, vehicle convoys etc. 

The code is there, all is there, even the crew members are implemented. Work should not be immense, and frankly we can design very credible airfield in this way.

I know your fully busy on Tanks, but Tanks to be immersive needs ground troops. So if you implement ground troops or crews on airfields, at the bottom , all the same.

So I count on you beloved devs for this future nice "update". Say for 3.012? 🙂 

 

Edited by IckyATLAS

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AFAIK wandering aircrew are not independent objects but animations tied to specific objects - in particular the parking bays, but there may be others. Place the object in a mission and the wandering aircrew will appear. So presumably the route of the animation is somehow tied up with the animation itself.

 

This certainly needs sorting out - either by making the aircrew full objects as you suggest or with animations that keep them to the rear and sides of the objects where they are less likely to run into trouble.  

 

 

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I would have shot you, just for you questioning the decision to shoot you, FlyingH. 🤣

 

Mike.

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I'm sure it sounds like a fun feature but IMHO they should get rid of it.  I am unaware of any pilot actually being shot for committing a war crime.  Friendly fire happened.  Usually the pilot would just claim a  kill and get a medal for it (I say Harry, wasn't that a Spitfire in the gun camera film?).  Friendly fire might get you a stern talking to and, if it was repeated, a transfer to an infantry mine clearing battalion.  Not shot.

 

Enemy pilots shot others in parachutes - it happened.  This might get you a mild scolding at most.  Or maybe a medal.

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45 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

I'm sure it sounds like a fun feature but IMHO they should get rid of it.  I am unaware of any pilot actually being shot for committing a war crime.  Friendly fire happened.  Usually the pilot would just claim a  kill and get a medal for it (I say Harry, wasn't that a Spitfire in the gun camera film?).  Friendly fire might get you a stern talking to and, if it was repeated, a transfer to an infantry mine clearing battalion.  Not shot.

Exactly. And there are a lot of confirmed stories about bombers attacking their own troops.

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16 hours ago, PatrickAWlson said:

I'm sure it sounds like a fun feature but IMHO they should get rid of it.  I am unaware of any pilot actually being shot for committing a war crime.  Friendly fire happened.  Usually the pilot would just claim a  kill and get a medal for it (I say Harry, wasn't that a Spitfire in the gun camera film?).  Friendly fire might get you a stern talking to and, if it was repeated, a transfer to an infantry mine clearing battalion.  Not shot.

 

Enemy pilots shot others in parachutes - it happened.  This might get you a mild scolding at most.  Or maybe a medal.

Agree... did not even know that this thing is in game but it sounds really stupid to get executed due to accident of friendly fire. And if you committed war crime by killing enemy is some wrong way? No one would care.. hope they will remove it.

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All armies had a code of conduct, even on the Eastern Front in WWII. I would be curious to know what the game considers a “war crime”

i have read accounts of Luftwaffe pilots being given strict instructions no to shoot enemy airmen in their parachutes, but that may have been the Western Front. As far as I know, friendly fire wasn’t a “war crime” although certainly it could have led to punishment and demotion etc. 

The Luftwaffe held pilots responsible for anything that occurred while they were operating the aircraft so even a ground crew member wandering into your prop would have been the pilot’s fault. 

It would be great to see your pilot reprimanded, placed under house arrest, for screwing up a landing and damaging the aircraft 🤨

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29 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

It would be great to see your pilot reprimanded, placed under house arrest, for screwing up a landing and damaging the aircraft 🤨

Not enough houses for arrest.

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1 hour ago, ZachariasX said:

Not enough houses for arrest.

Oh yeah. One book I was reading about a Luftwaffe pilot, he had some incidents like a botched landing or collision on the ground. One (the collision) he was placed on close arrest for, nothing to eat but bread and water and given the choice to read the Bible or Mein Kampf. 

Any of these infractions has to potential to end his career as a fighter pilot, even if it was “someone else’s fault” like a ground personnel giving him the wrong hand signal or another aircraft cutting him off on approach. It didn’t matter. His approach he believed would avoid serious consequences was to match straight up to his superiors and demand punishment. Not to make any excuses. Seems like it worked. 

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Flying some VVS scripted campaigns or missions, especially in situations where I'm to help defend friendly bombers, I always feel somewhat "guilty" if I RTB prematurely with an undamaged ( or lightly damaged ) plane and have any ammunition left over...sometimes even if I didn't RTB earlier. As though charges of cowardice might be leveled against me.

 

Such is the level of immersion with this sim....

 

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I’m curious exactly what “war crimes” are in the sim so I can avoid them 😬

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Demotion, or being stripped of an award, is perhaps a more realistic punishment than being shot for friendly fire in game. Maybe repeated offences get you shot?

Although I guess there is a certain ironic justice in being shot by your own side after shooting your own side?

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Friendly fire is and was an unfortunately common occurrence. “Crimes” require intent and blue on blue incidents are almost always unintentional. Therefore aren’t “war crimes”. I wonder what exactly constitutes a “war crime” in career mode?

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It reminds me of games where you "lose" if you do something wrong, friendly fire in call of duty, shooting horse in call of juarez and more. It's more of an annoyance than something fun and good. I feel like it's there to make some moral lesson or something, to punish someone who do it on purpose but most of the time it's just an accident and when you must reload check point because stupid AI guy ran into your fire it's frustrating.

 

Quit Darkest Hour (Red Orchestra mod) because stupid change devs added to punish friendly fire. Your weapon gets locked for X seconds, i never understand why devs add stuff like friendly fire to game (that is suppose to be relistic) if they are going to punish you for it in unrealistic way like locking weapon or killing you (ace who has 500 kills but bombed wrong target and gets executed). Like people do it on purpose... 99% of it is just accident, not always yours anyway. Someone runs into your MG fire, right infront of you while you sprey.. and  you are the one who gets punished, you threw nade to clear room but some genious runs in and gets killed with 2 enemies and you get weapon lock. Then you die because 3rd ran away and shot you while you stand like and idiot because you have no option to fight for 30s.

 

Never happend to me in il2 but i hope it gets removed, would not want to get iron mode destroyed by some stupid mechanic.

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Were you flying a russian campaign? if so it's best not to look at the commissar in a funny way ;)

 

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Yes, russian campaign, I think the NKVD had their eyes on me as I was taken off duty for a number of missions in november for no apparent reason! Then as now there was no furter explenation. In the mission I dont think I hit nothing but thin air (or deep snow)! Strange was it!

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18 minutes ago, FlyingH said:

Yes, russian campaign, I think the NKVD had their eyes on me as I was taken off duty for a number of missions in november for no apparent reason! Then as now there was no furter explenation. In the mission I dont think I hit nothing but thin air (or deep snow)! Strange was it!

Sometimes you just don't get assigned to missions. Its random. I've had times where I was taken off mission for 2 days in a row after nearly becoming an ace-in-a-flight. Maybe I was doing a speaking tour to drum up support for the motherland or something?

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Wasn't Alexander Pokryshkin's first "kill" a Su-2? The Soviets made a prudent decision by not sending him to the firing squad.

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On 2/10/2019 at 8:02 PM, SharpeXB said:

Oh yeah. One book I was reading about a Luftwaffe pilot, he had some incidents like a botched landing or collision on the ground. One (the collision) he was placed on close arrest for, nothing to eat but bread and water and given the choice to read the Bible or Mein Kampf. 

Any of these infractions has to potential to end his career as a fighter pilot, even if it was “someone else’s fault” like a ground personnel giving him the wrong hand signal or another aircraft cutting him off on approach. It didn’t matter. His approach he believed would avoid serious consequences was to match straight up to his superiors and demand punishment. Not to make any excuses. Seems like it worked. 

 

That was Hannig with JG 54 after a novice groundcrew caused him to taxi into a parked fighter.

 

He got in trouble a fair few times IIRC, including threatened with couet martial for scrambling inadvertently and hence wasting fuel.

 

Other pilots got transferred to infantry for stealin rabbits, but I recall no firing squads.

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42 minutes ago, EAF19_Marsh said:

 

That was Hannig with JG 54 after a novice groundcrew caused him to taxi into a parked fighter.

 

He got in trouble a fair few times IIRC, including threatened with couet martial for scrambling inadvertently and hence wasting fuel.

 

Other pilots got transferred to infantry for stealin rabbits, but I recall no firing squads.

Yeah that was the book

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